Sledging Banned

[hujsh]

Who might this help hmmm.

That's right no more sledging. No more Sherminators. Nothing. Well bowled. Nice shot. Thats it. Much more exciting:rolleyes:

It would be easier to just leave India to play it's own games but if we said we won't play you then they wouldn't play the teams that played us meaning the end of International Cricket in Australia.

There will be an article in the Herald Sun.

:mad::mad::mad:

[hujsh]

ICC bans the sledge (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23426544-11088,00.html)

[Twodogs]

There's a bible story about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.



I reckon the ICC have got about the same chance as the rich man.

[westdog54]

There's a bible story about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.



I reckon the ICC have got about the same chance as the rich man.

I liken this decision to the prohibition of Alcohol in the 1920s in America.

All it accomplished was to make moral crusaders feel a little better about themselves, and valuable police resources were wasted in attempting to enforce it. The same will happen with this rule.

[Chops]

It should be renamed Appease the Indians rule.

[Chops]

This will never get off the ground as they have to define what is a sledge.
To me sledging is not just verbal. Now have they going to police that?

[hujsh]

This will never get off the ground as they have to define what is a sledge.
To me sledging is not just verbal. Now have they going to police that?

Any words or gestures that are obscene, offensive or insulting are banned. How you define what's insulting I don't know. Swearing of any kind is banned.

What about Warne's sledge, "It's called a leg break Darryl." Would that be allowed?

[Chops]

Any words or gestures that are obscene, offensive or insulting are banned. How you define what's insulting I don't know. Swearing of any kind is banned.

What about Warne's sledge, "It's called a leg break Darryl." Would that be allowed?
Exactly. Someone could find anything insulting.
Its called gamemanship and it has been part of sport since it began. The mental game is just as important as the physical game.
I agree with banning swearing but to ban sledging all up is plain stupid.

[Twodogs]

Exactly. Someone could find anything insulting.





Personally I find attempting to ban sledging insulting.


You might as well try to ban off spin. At least then we wouldnt have to put up with rubbish like Ashley Giles.

[westdog54]

Personally I find attempting to ban sledging insulting.


You might as well try to ban off spin. At least then we wouldnt have to put up with rubbish like Ashley Giles.

Banning spin bowling wouldn't affect Ashley Giles in the slightest;)

[ledge]

I remember when i played footy you told your opposition you slept with his mum, sometimes you even got congratulated by your opposition on how good the sledging was.didnt mean anything , still had a beer afterwards, wasnt even discussed was just to put them off.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me, maybe that should be the cricket councils reply, getting so childish at times now.
They are proffesionals, get over it i say. Or what are they going to do ? go tell their mum?.
My mum would have laughed and said you probably deserved it.

[hujsh]

I remember when i played footy you told your opposition you slept with his mum, sometimes you even got congratulated by your opposition on how good the sledging was.didnt mean anything , still had a beer afterwards, wasnt even discussed was just to put them off.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me, maybe that should be the cricket councils reply, getting so childish at times now.
They are proffesionals, get over it i say. Or what are they going to do ? go tell their mum?.
My mum would have laughed and said you probably deserved it.

Some kids just shouldn't try to sledge. One of the stupidest kids ever tried to sledge me but i couldn't understand him. Something about having too much sp*** then i had no d***. He was good though. Kicked 3 goals in a half. Most I've had kicked on me is 3 goals.

[Twodogs]

I remember when i played footy you told your opposition you slept with his mum, sometimes you even got congratulated by your opposition on how good the sledging was.didnt mean anything , still had a beer afterwards, wasnt even discussed was just to put them off.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me, maybe that should be the cricket councils reply, getting so childish at times now.
They are proffesionals, get over it i say. Or what are they going to do ? go tell their mum?.
My mum would have laughed and said you probably deserved it.



Some of the funniest trhings I've ever heard have been on the cricket field. Batsman, fielders and umpires all had a good laugh at whatever was said and then we all got on with the game.


Personally I reckon that the look Clarke and Symons give each other when the little girl sledges them in the backyard game on that ad is the best way of dealing with it.

[EJ Smith]

The way I see it, nobody is attempting to ban the sledge (which is not a word anyway). To quote from the news report: The ICC has sent a letter to international match officials, captains and chief executives over personal attacks that are "obscene, offensive or insulting".

Statements like, "It's a leg break, Daryl" do not fall under this Banner.

However, comments like this made by one Australian opening bowler some time ago, "You're nothing but a black, mongrel @#$% ^&$, &%$& do.

This is what they are seeking to ban.

[hujsh]

The way I see it, nobody is attempting to ban the sledge (which is not a word anyway). To quote from the news report: The ICC has sent a letter to international match officials, captains and chief executives over personal attacks that are "obscene, offensive or insulting".

Statements like, "It's a leg break, Daryl" do not fall under this Banner.

However, comments like this made by one Australian opening bowler some time ago, "You're nothing but a black, mongrel @#$% ^&$, &%$& do.

This is what they are seeking to ban.

But is the game too censored? A bowler can't yell out f*** after beating the edge for the 10th time. We're creating robots.

[Sockeye Salmon]

The way I see it, nobody is attempting to ban the sledge (which is not a word anyway). To quote from the news report: The ICC has sent a letter to international match officials, captains and chief executives over personal attacks that are "obscene, offensive or insulting".

Statements like, "It's a leg break, Daryl" do not fall under this Banner.

However, comments like this made by one Australian opening bowler some time ago, "You're nothing but a black, mongrel @#$% ^&$, &%$& do.

This is what they are seeking to ban.

Has been outlawed for years.

The ICC has cowtowed to Indian and Sri Lankan softkoks who aren't tough enough to deserve to be test cricketers.

[Twodogs]

The way I see it, nobody is attempting to ban the sledge (which is not a word anyway). To quote from the news report: The ICC has sent a letter to international match officials, captains and chief executives over personal attacks that are "obscene, offensive or insulting".

Statements like, "It's a leg break, Daryl" do not fall under this Banner.

However, comments like this made by one Australian opening bowler some time ago, "You're nothing but a black, mongrel @#$% ^&$, &%$& do.

This is what they are seeking to ban.


That's already banned and has been since before siad fast bowler's outburst-which incidently came after the batsmen had made some pretty classy remarks about his wive's breast cancer.


At least the batsman was there in person to defend himself and not in an oncology ward.

[ledge]

There is a difference between sledgeing and using peoples personal problems to get at them.

[FrediKanoute]

Banning spin bowling wouldn't affect Ashley Giles in the slightest;)

Red Card!!!! That was a Sledge!

Seriously though there is a line and the minute it gets personal on any level its no longer a sporting comment. Comments re Mcgrath's ill wife were out of line, just as comments re Singh's turbin would be out of line. Warney telling Cullinan that its a leg-break wouldn't be out of line.

The minute you have to stop and think whether an average person on the street would get away with saying something is time to consider whether its sledging or not. If you wouldn't say it on the street then there is no place for it on the cricket field.

TBH though that's not what the Ausrtalian strength is. Comment's like Warney's or Waugh's generally came after sustained pressure on the opposition and were comments used to reinforce in the opposition's mind just how tough the Ausrtalians were and conversely just how weak the opposition were. Insulting Singh's mother/sister etc is simply not something historically the Aussies did.

What I have to ask though is why this has become such a hot issue under the Ponting captaincy. To me more and more "on-field" issues are making their way "off-field" under Ponting's captaincy than under Border/Taylor/Waugh. Sledging is just one of them and I think a large amount of the blame has to be levelled at the Australian captain.

[EJ Smith]

Has been outlawed for years.

The ICC has cowtowed to Indian and Sri Lankan softkoks who aren't tough enough to deserve to be test cricketers.

Again, note the wording of the instruction - personal attacks that are "obscene, offensive or insulting".

People have this romantic view of the game that assumes that all comments are amusing by-play. From first hand experience this is not the case. If the general public had any idea of the level of abuse that goes on, most would shy away from the game.

Personally, I take the view that Test cricket is about playing for sheep stations and bad luck if people are offended. It comes down to what is acceptable and what is not. Clearly, now, what is acceptable to me and possibly you, is not acceptable to adminstrators.

But don't write it off as comical by-play.

[EJ Smith]

That's already banned and has been since before siad fast bowler's outburst-which incidently came after the batsmen had made some pretty classy remarks about his wive's breast cancer.


At least the batsman was there in person to defend himself and not in an oncology ward.

I'm not talking about Mc Grath. This incident was typical and long before that. Abusive language to players is not new.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Again, note the wording of the instruction - personal attacks that are "obscene, offensive or insulting".

People have this romantic view of the game that assumes that all comments are amusing by-play. From first hand experience this is not the case. If the general public had any idea of the level of abuse that goes on, most would shy away from the game.

Personally, I take the view that Test cricket is about playing for sheep stations and bad luck if people are offended. It comes down to what is acceptable and what is not. Clearly, now, what is acceptable to me and possibly you, is not acceptable to adminstrators.

But don't write it off as comical by-play.

It's not about comical by-play at all.

It's about being mentally tough enough.

If you can't play leg spin you won't make it in test cricket.
If your not fit enough you won't make it in test cricket.
If you're not mentally tough enough you don't deserve to make it in test cricket.

Unfortunately the ICC are taking out one of the games skills.



I'm somewhat rotund and I've lost count of the number of times I've been called a fat **** on the field. So what? Should I be getting all precious and have a cry?

It's nothing personal, it's cricket. Deal with it.

"I shagged your sister". Really? Don't let my brother-in-law find out then.

Why would anyone pay attention to anything that you know was deliberately being said to put you off?


The only one that was really a problem was the McGrath/Sarwan thing about McGrath's wife and I am absolutely certain that either
1) Sarwan didn't know about McGrath's wife's condition or
2) had a total vague out at the time about it

It was unfortunate at the time but we all got over it.

[EJ Smith]

I'm somewhat rotund and I've lost count of the number of times I've been called a fat **** on the field. So what? Should I be getting all precious and have a cry?

It's nothing personal, it's cricket. Deal with it.

"I shagged your sister". Really? Don't let my brother-in-law find out then.

.

You find that acceptable and I don't take offence at it either but many people will - refer to FrediKanoute's post. In fact, probably the majority of people will find it offensive. Accordingly, the administrators want it out of the game.

My point is we are all on soft ground arguing in favour of allowing such personal abuse to continue.

[Sockeye Salmon]

You find that acceptable and I don't take offence at it either but many people will - refer to FrediKanoute's post. In fact, probably the majority of people will find it offensive. Accordingly, the administrators want it out of the game.

My point is we are all on soft ground arguing in favour of allowing such personal abuse to continue.

Then they should tough the **** up or accept that they're not test cricketers.

[Twodogs]

TBH though that's not what the Ausrtalian strength is. Comment's like Warney's or Waugh's generally came after sustained pressure on the opposition and were comments used to reinforce in the opposition's mind just how tough the Ausrtalians were and conversely just how weak the opposition were. Insulting Singh's mother/sister etc is simply not something historically the Aussies did.





But that's not what sledging is all about. It's a small part but essentially when you're batting it's you against eleven blokes and there doing everything they can to get at you. If they cant get at you with their bowling and fielding they've got every right to start trying to get in your head, if you let them then it's your lack of mental discipline that's to blame. Batsmen should be thinking about the next ball, that's their job, It's not listening to a bunch of wallys badmouthing someone they've never met..



Maybe it's the fact that I stood at the front counter of a CES office for 15 years and got desensitised to being called every name under the sun, but I find it easy to overlook all sorts of abuse directed at me on the field. Afterall when they start resorting to sledging it means your doing your job and you should wear it as a badge of honour. Also often when the fielders dont get a response it means theyre only a couple of overs away from arguing amongst themselves.

[EJ Smith]

Red Card!!!! That was a Sledge!

Insulting Singh's mother/sister etc is simply not something historically the Aussies did.

What I have to ask though is why this has become such a hot issue under the Ponting captaincy. To me more and more "on-field" issues are making their way "off-field" under Ponting's captaincy than under Border/Taylor/Waugh. Sledging is just one of them and I think a large amount of the blame has to be levelled at the Australian captain.

Let me assure you that comments similar and far worse that "Insulting Singh's mother/sister" were rife prior to Border/Taylor/Waugh's captaincy.

Whilst I cannot speak of the Border/Taylor/Waugh era, there is nothing to assume that things are worse under Ponting's captaincy that before.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if the public had any idea of what goes on in the middle, most would give the game away. I'm not one of them because in my view Test cricket is "playing for sheep stations" but I fully understand that many people would be concerned at such going's on.

[ledge]

But that's not what sledging is all about. It's a small part but essentially when you're batting it's you against eleven blokes and there doing everything they can to get at you. If they cant get at you with their bowling and fielding they've got every right to start trying to get in your head, if you let them then it's your lack of mental discipline that's to blame. Batsmen should be thinking about the next ball, that's their job, It's not listening to a bunch of wallys badmouthing someone they've never met..



Maybe it's the fact that I stood at the front counter of a CES office for 15 years and got desensitised to being called every name under the sun, but I find it easy to overlook all sorts of abuse directed at me on the field. Afterall when they start resorting to sledging it means your doing your job and you should wear it as a badge of honour. Also often when the fielders dont get a response it means theyre only a couple of overs away from arguing amongst themselves.

As a cricketer of 33 years playing,and still having a hit, i applaud this quote, hit the nail on the head, grow up and get over it, its all by play to me when im out there batting, i actually enjoy it and wait for the new comments and have a giggle about them, it tends to annoy the fieldsman more if you go along with it because they know its not working.
And test cricketers cant handle it?

[Twodogs]

As a cricketer of 33 years playing,and still having a hit, i applaud this quote, hit the nail on the head, grow up and get over it, its all by play to me when im out there batting, i actually enjoy it and wait for the new comments and have a giggle about them, it tends to annoy the fieldsman more if you go along with it because they know its not working.
And test cricketers cant handle it?


That's the bottom line. If it's getting into your head then it's serving it's purpose. You've got two options, ignore it and hope they'll tire of it or give it back worse. It's not as if batsmen dont sledge fast bowlers in order to make them lose their rag and bowl too fast.

[EJ Smith]

I find it easy to overlook all sorts of abuse directed at me on the field. .

Would you also overlook personal abuse off the field?

If you answer no to this, then why should the abuser be protected on the field?

And do you think the lawmakers had it in their mind for the game to allow personal abuse?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Would you also overlook personal abuse off the field?

If you answer no to this, then why should the abuser be protected on the field?

And do you think the lawmakers had it in their mind for the game to allow personal abuse?

Because of the motive behind the personal abuse.

On field their motive is to put you off to gain an advantage - nothing personal, just another tactic.

Off field their motive can only be personal and therefore that makes them fair game to get belted.

[Twodogs]

Would you also overlook personal abuse off the field?

If you answer no to this, then why should the abuser be protected on the field?

And do you think the lawmakers had it in their mind for the game to allow personal abuse?



Maybe or maybe not but I dont see that as being the point. Playing cricket and real life are different-and like SS says it would come down to the motivation anyway.


I didnt flinch at most of the rubbish thrown at me in the workplace because it wasnt really me they were abusing anyway. It was their situation, frustration etc that was driving them.

[Lantern]

Plenty of salient points made on both sides of the argument. I for one agree with SS on the point that if it's not personal and simply tactical it can be amusing, easily shrugged off and doesn't affect relationships between people. I also see that EJ is concerned that it is often more than simply 'gamesmanship', especially when it straddles the line with racism, cultural ignorance, etc. that potentially strain relationships between, not only people, but also countries. We Aussies are a resilient bunch that take abuse with good nature, but one cannot expect that all cultures share our sensitivities or lack of it, and not simply claim that because others are different they should just 'get on with it'. Yes, the Indian board tends to be oversensitive and trigger-happy, and they should also learn to get a backbone, but there is a reverse racial tension where they feel that they have been 'oppressed' by Western nations for a long time and thus take any opportunity now to assert themselves. This is true of all emerging post-colonial cultures when in contact with parties perceived to be connected with their previous colonisers. I'll bet India isn't half as sensitive when playing South Africa or the West Indies as they are when playing Australia or England.

Some questions I have:

- Is sledging always 'about the game' and never 'personal'? I doubt it. Some players are sledged far more than others. When does it cross the line into abuse?

- Not all players, not even all Australian players, sledge. Some of the classiest players -- Tendulkar, Lara, Lee, Hussey -- don't sledge. Is it simply then a tactic of less talented players to 'even up the playing field' so to speak?

- Our favourite non-cricketing sledger was a little tagger that answers to the moniker 'Libba'. We loved it that he gave it non-stop to our opposition, but now that he's 'all grown up' he is still mouthing off to all and sundry and it's not quite as cute anymore. Is sledging ever just 'left on the field' or is someone who is uncouth on a field more than likely to not know where the line is in 'real life', and therefore the playing of cricket in this way actually contributes to the development of an unpleasant character? Does this not go contrary to the spirit (naive, perhaps) of not just cricket, but sport in general, which is supposed to promote health and well-being?

- It's well and good that professionals do whatever they can to win, but we all know that this attitude is copied right through the ranks down to suburban leagues (as above anecdotes tell) and down to the junior leagues, where kids are calling each other c***s and swearing to high heaven. How is amateur sport ie. rocking up on a weekend to play a game against other blokes also a haven for all manner of abuse that -- and I'm sure we've all seen this happen -- sometimes/often lead to unpleasantness or even punch-ups? What happened to good, old-fashioned 'sportsmanship'? Is it a particularly Aussie thing to be uber-competitive even playing weekend sport and then able to go out for a beer together after?

- I've been involved both as a player and coach in incidents at amateur/school level in different sports where excessive sledging has created tensions and clubs/schools fall out over the matter. Is this worth it? I understand (and have even actively encouraged it) when it's state-league level or whatever and it really is all about winning, but at a park level surely people should be having fun and not have their insecurities probed mercilessly?

---

ps. I know I sound like I'm anti-sledging, and I've written a post some time back where I spoke about Aussies setting an example for the rest of the world, but a confession is that I used to be a terrible offender with a take no prisoners approach to sport in general (nine yellow cards and three red cards in a single hockey season, for example, before I learnt to be more subtle with my gamesmanship, should serve to illustrate).. and I don't look back at my behaviour with much pride, so I just wanted to make it clear that I'm in no position to judge, simply to study different, and perhaps better or healthier approaches?

[Twodogs]

- Not all players, not even all Australian players, sledge. Some of the classiest players -- Tendulkar, Lara, Lee, Hussey -- don't sledge. Is it simply then a tactic of less talented players to 'even up the playing field' so to speak?





I'll take that one. As a 44 year old who's reflexes arent what they were and who doesnt have the same footwork and eye I used to have sledging is a skill set I can bring to the table. My favorite method is to stand at slip or short leg and keep up a running commentary on the batsman's game. My style is subtle-geez there's some zip in this pitch, isnt there? or try getting head behind the line of the ball-and not abusive but other blokes can be nastier and that's OK with me. It's all part of the game and something you work on as you get older-lets face it a 16 year old with a breaking voice and no experience in the ups and downs of the game would look a goose.

[GVGjr]

Not cricket related and not really a sledge but one of my best moments at putting an opponent off his game was playing footy up in the country.
My opponent for the game really loved his hotted up car and like in most country games, you can get a park close to the ground and within eye shot of the field.

I arranged for a few 14yo local youngsters to stand near his car at the start of the game and when I went up to him before the bounce of the ball I asked if that was his car over yonder and why so many of the local juvenile delinquents were standing near it? I even offered something like I hope they are not doing a bit of detailing.

Well that was it, he spent the better part of the first quarter trying to organise a friend or one of the trainers to usher them away from his car. I think it took him most of the next quarter to work out that I might have had something to do with it. I can remember getting a few free kicks from his stupidity after he put two and two together.

By the way, I made sure I got a lift to the return game later in the season ;)

[EJ Smith]

I'll take that one. As a 44 year old who's reflexes arent what they were and who doesnt have the same footwork and eye I used to have sledging is a skill set I can bring to the table. My favorite method is to stand at slip or short leg and keep up a running commentary on the batsman's game. My style is subtle-geez there's some zip in this pitch, isnt there? or try getting head behind the line of the ball-and not abusive but other blokes can be nastier and that's OK with me. It's all part of the game and something you work on as you get older-lets face it a 16 year old with a breaking voice and no experience in the ups and downs of the game would look a goose.

I have no issue whatsoever with your style of commentary.

My concern and I think the administrators concern is with the personal/racist abuse a la - You F$%& mongrel black %&$*. I didn't accept it at Test level and at junior cricket level, I think it is outrageous.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Not cricket related and not really a sledge but one of my best moments at putting an opponent off his game was playing footy up in the country.
My opponent for the game really loved his hotted up car and like in most country games, you can get a park close to the ground and within eye shot of the field.

I arranged for a few 14yo local youngsters to stand near his car at the start of the game and when I went up to him before the bounce of the ball I asked if that was his car over yonder and why so many of the local juvenile delinquents were standing near it? I even offered something like I hope they are not doing a bit of detailing.

Well that was it, he spent the better part of the first quarter trying to organise a friend or one of the trainers to usher them away from his car. I think it took him most of the next quarter to work out that I might have had something to do with it. I can remember getting a few free kicks from his stupidity after he put two and two together.

By the way, I made sure I got a lift to the return game later in the season ;)

That is quiote possibly the greatest piece of gamesmanship I've ever heard.

Respect.

[Twodogs]

I have no issue whatsoever with your style of commentary.

My concern and I think the administrators concern is with the personal/racist abuse a la - You F$%& mongrel black %&$*. I didn't accept it at Test level and at junior cricket level, I think it is outrageous.

I see your point.

Blokes who say stuff like that wouldnt last long at the standard I play at-it's competitive but we arent playing test cricket. I'd be against that sort of sledging at any level.

[Twodogs]

Sledge update;



Friday night and the West Coast players are getting into Judd-"Get his shoulders boys-his shoulders are ****ed" Judd comes back with "Of course my shoulders are ****ed, I carryied all you ****s for 5 years"

[ledge]

Twodogs thats a players Comettiism, very good, i like that, might start a sledge post.