Who will win the EPL in 08/09?

[The Coon Dog]

Almost at the end of the year, so just over half of the 30 rounds of the EPL have been completed.

So who will win it this season?

Realistically I can only see 3 sides winning it. Liverpool, Chelsea & Manchester United, with Arsenal & Aston Villa to fight it out for the all important 4th Champions League spot.

As it stands the table looks like this:

45 pts - Liverpool - P20, GD +22
42 pts - Chelsea - P20, GD +31
38 pts - Man Urd - P18, GD +19
35 pts - Arsenal - P20, GD +10
35 pts - Aston Villa - P19, GD +10

Man Utd have 2 games in hand over Liverpool & Chelsea (both home games v Fulham & Wigan, so you would expect them to win & add an additional 6 points into bank).

So who of the top 5 do Liverpool, Chelsea & Man Utd play in the New Year?

Liverpool
Chelsea 1 Feb (h)
Man Utd 14 Mar (a)
Aston Villa 21 Mar (h)
Arsenal 18 Apr (h)

3 home, 1 away.


Chelsea
Man Utd 11 Jan (a)
Liverpool 1 Feb (a)
Aston Villa 21 Feb (a)
Arsenal 9 May (a)

0 home, 4 away.

Man Utd
Chelsea 11 Jan (h)
Liverpool 14 Mar (h)
Aston Villa 4 Apr (h)
Arsenal 16 May (h)

4 home, 0 away.

I guess it's easy to look at the big fixtures & try to guess from there, but this season already sides like Hull, Everton, Fulham, Tottenham, Wigan & West Ham have taken points off the top 3.

This could go right to the wire & that would be fantastic in my view.

Here's hoping it's Liverpool.

[GVGjr]

TCD, sorry to say but I hope Liverpool don't. I worked with a lot of arrogant Poms over the years and the most detestable one's typically supported Liverpool and I could never bring myself to wish them well.

I hold my own side Wigan responsible for Liverpool being on top anyway. We twice had the lead only to eventually lose 3-2. Even if we could have drawn that game we would have brought them back to the field.

Chelsea would be my pick of the sides.

[MrMahatma]

Liverpool might struggle if Gerrard is put behind bars...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7802932.stm

Still don't get how or why these supreme athletes are boozing hours after a game... and often only a couple of days before the next one.

[The Coon Dog]

TCD, sorry to say but I hope Liverpool don't. I worked with a lot of arrogant Poms over the years and the most detestable one's typically supported Liverpool and I could never bring myself to wish them well.


I'm sure all teams have supporters who are detestable, just like our own Bulldogs. They really must have made one hell of an impression on you!

[Twodogs]

I'm sure all teams have supporters who are detestable, just like our own Bulldogs. They really must have made one hell of an impression on you!



Sorry Baz but Liverpool supporters are the scum of the Earth.



Present company excepted of course...;)

[GVGjr]

I'm sure all teams have supporters who are detestable, just like our own Bulldogs. They really must have made one hell of an impression on you!

It takes a fair bit for people to get under my skin especially when they are passionate about their side because that is something I would normally respect but these fools crossed the line from confidence to arrogance so far it was very easy to write them and Liverpool off. They were overly arrogant in their working ability as well and yet could never back it up and hit any targets or timeframes or milestones either.
They are probably also the reason why I think dual passports are nothing more than a rort that a selected few exploit.

[Twodogs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jiBIdtUKhs


I watched that game live on TV. Gee it was rrare to get a game live back in 1989. The truly great thing is the mate I was living with was a Liverpool fan!!!!

[Lantern]

I always admired Liverpool in the 70s and 80s, but then Graeme Souness took over and it changed forever. They went from Kenny Dalglish managed top of the table by 12 points after 12 wins in 12 games, after Dalglish retired mid-season, to selling half their first team, buying crappy second division players (the only ones Souness could get along with) and finishing 4th! How bad can a manager be -- can't believe he still had a reputation after that debacle.

And what about Dalglish quitting mid-season citing fatigue? There's a lot more to that story that's never been told.

--

My prediction? Chelsea to make a good fist of it, but they play the top 4 all away next year and have dropped too many points to lower sides at home. Manchester United's record from Christmas onwards every year is bloody impressive, and they haven't yet hit top stride despite constantly threatening to, they've already played all the other top sides away, and all their tough games are at home. They're my pick, with Chelsea second, Liverpool third, Aston Villa fourth, Everton fifth and Arsenal to sneak into the UEFA cup, just. If you've been watching Arsenal they are barely talking to each other, and Gallas is almost imploding.

My smokey to finish second is Aston Villa. They've been very exciting and look very solid. Martin O' Neill is a genius.

[Twodogs]

If you've been watching Arsenal they are barely talking to each other, and Gallas is almost imploding.





I've been watching. :(

[FrediKanoute]

Spurs to miraculously win every game (league, cups) from 2 Jan 09 onwards and win the Quadruple (Premiership, FA Cup, Carling Cup and UEFA Cup)...........:D

[Lantern]

My prediction? Chelsea to make a good fist of it, but they play the top 4 all away next year and have dropped too many points to lower sides at home. Manchester United's record from Christmas onwards every year is bloody impressive, and they haven't yet hit top stride despite constantly threatening to, they've already played all the other top sides away, and all their tough games are at home. They're my pick, with Chelsea second, Liverpool third, Aston Villa fourth, Everton fifth and Arsenal to sneak into the UEFA cup, just. If you've been watching Arsenal they are barely talking to each other, and Gallas is almost imploding.

My smokey to finish second is Aston Villa. They've been very exciting and look very solid. Martin O' Neill is a genius.

Ooooh, looking good!

I still think Villa are a big show for second or third.

And GO VICTORY!!!

[Bulldog Revolution]

Ooooh, looking good!

I still think Villa are a big show for second or third.



Former Celtic Manager Martin ONeill seems to have done a fabulous job with Aston Villa

I am hoping that Liverpool can take the title from Man U, just for a bit of a change

[Lantern]

I think of O'Neill as the former Leicester City manager even more so than the Celtic manager. Almost any decent manager can get Celtic into the top two in Scotland (have to be really crap to have them drop out of the top 2 actually!), but his magic in keeping Leicester in upper mid table in the premiership year after year was nothing short of incredible. One only needs to look at where Leicester are now to see how miraculous his time there was. He's working the same magic on Villa now..

Always rated O'Neill as the best British manager going around after Sir Alex (with Moyes in a distant third), and was surprised he wasn't more highly considered for the England job. I reckon he would be perfect for it.. understands the 'British' game inside-out but is tactically sophisticated enough to adapt to international conditions.

[Lantern]

ps. Hate the Liverpool ever since Souness's days -- fell out of love with them when Dalglish left, so am thoroughly enjoying seeing them just self-destruct. Sorry!

pps. Not a Man U fan as such (I'm a Sheffield Wednesday man myself), but love the way they play, and they just have the x-factor that combines substance and style to such effect. Chelsea are unlovable, and Arsenal are a donut -- sweet as heck but with a gaping hole in the middle. Villa and Everton are classically workmanlike with a touch of class, but Man U are world beaters with such a great team culture. Tevez was a three time South American player of the year (!!) but even he subjugates himself to the team. Used to hate them but have thoroughly won me over with their football.. and Giggs is a true gentleman of the game.

[craigsahibee]

Yes, the sphincters are starting to tighten at Anfield. I think Man Utd will wrap the title up 2 -3 games out from the end of the season. It could even be all over by March 15 when Utd take on Liverpool at Old Trafford. United seem to have 2 - 3 alternatives in every position and can cover injuries and fatigue as their heavy schedule is maintained late into the season.

Would love to see Villa in europe next year. A fantastic reward for Martin O'Neill who is a brilliant manager, even though he spent time at the filth of Scottish football.

[western monkey]

Yes, the sphincters are starting to tighten at Anfield. I think Man Utd will wrap the title up 2 -3 games out from the end of the season. It could even be all over by March 15 when Utd take on Liverpool at Old Trafford. United seem to have 2 - 3 alternatives in every position and can cover injuries and fatigue as their heavy schedule is maintained late into the season.

Would love to see Villa in europe next year. A fantastic reward for Martin O'Neill who is a brilliant manager, even though he spent time at the filth of Scottish football.

if winning makes us "filth" then throw me in the mud and i'll gladly roll around in it!!
Better Martin O'Neill spent time with us winning than with Hibs making up the numbers!!:mad:

[craigsahibee]

But without Hibs, Celtic and Rangers would then have to produce their own quality youngsters!;)

Judging by the performances Hibs have shown recently, even "making up the numbers" seems as far away as winning the league. :(

[Sockeye Salmon]

But without Hibs, Celtic and Rangers would then have to produce their own quality youngsters!;)

Judging by the performances Hibs have shown recently, even "making up the numbers" seems as far away as winning the league. :(

Whatever happened to the idea of putting Celtic and Rangers in the EPL and letting the rest of the teams actually play a competition in the SPL?

[The Coon Dog]

Whatever happened to the idea of putting Celtic and Rangers in the EPL and letting the rest of the teams actually play a competition in the SPL?

Could you imagine the 'left footers' & 'blue noses' actually agreeing to forfeit their 13 derbies a year & the ability to play 'flat track bullies' against the rest of what the SPL has to offer? Not bloody likely!!

[craigsahibee]

Could you imagine the 'left footers' & 'blue noses' actually agreeing to forfeit their 13 derbies a year & the ability to play 'flat track bullies' against the rest of what the SPL has to offer? Not bloody likely!!

And it would kill off the game in Scotland. Without the Old Firm there wouldn't be any money in the TV rights. Even now Setanta have the rights and the fixture is stuctured in such a way that rarely do both Rangers and Celtic play at home on the same weekend. This allows Setanta to televise whichever of the two are playing away.

If the Old Firm travelled South, what little money is in Scottish football would leave with them.

At least in Scotland the league winners are guaranteed Champions League representation. In the EPL they would be mid table teams at best.

[Lantern]

Whatever happened to the idea of putting Celtic and Rangers in the EPL and letting the rest of the teams actually play a competition in the SPL?

Interesting and reasonably rational article I read recently on that:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=603057&sec=england&root=england&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2&cc=3436

[Sockeye Salmon]

At least in Scotland the league winners are guaranteed Champions League representation. In the EPL they would be mid table teams at best.

Why wouldn't they still?

Maybe even Hibs could make it to Europe?

[western monkey]

Interesting and reasonably rational article I read recently on that:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=603057&sec=england&root=england&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2&cc=3436

great article...that i in most part agree with. As a Celtic fan I would love for us to qualify into the EPL, however the old chestnut of the drain on the SPL still remains. That being said I feel that the "old firm" owes the SPL nothing as we have bank rolled the comp for over a century!!

[craigsahibee]

Why wouldn't they still?

Maybe even Hibs could make it to Europe?

The only way Hibs will make it to Europe is if their plane is diverted because of bad weather. Which will be difficult as they are not good enough to warrant having to fly anywhere for a game in the first place.

[Remi Moses]

Yes, the sphincters are starting to tighten at Anfield. I think Man Utd will wrap the title up 2 -3 games out from the end of the season. It could even be all over by March 15 when Utd take on Liverpool at Old Trafford. United seem to have 2 - 3 alternatives in every position and can cover injuries and fatigue as their heavy schedule is maintained late into the season.

Would love to see Villa in europe next year. A fantastic reward for Martin O'Neill who is a brilliant manager, even though he spent time at the filth of Scottish football.

That's a tad harsh considering Celtic stopped Hearts winning the league in the mid 80's!

[GVGjr]

Time to have a look at this again. Man United are now the leaders and I suppose the question is if they can be caught?

Which teams are most likely to be relegated?

[The Coon Dog]

I think Manyoo are home & hosed.

West Brom, Middlesbrough & Stoke are my fancies to be relegared.

[craigsahibee]

That's a tad harsh considering Celtic stopped Hearts winning the league in the mid 80's!

Was that the year Albert Kidd (either Dundee or Dundee UTD) scored twice in the dying minutes of the final game to deny Hearts the title?

He is now living out here in Australia and a few years ago the Australian Hibernian Supporters Club had him as their Guest of Honour at their annual get together. He had no ties to Hibs at all other than the fact that he was responsible for their arch rivals not winning the league.

Now that is pure hatred.

[Remi Moses]

Was that the year Albert Kidd (either Dundee or Dundee UTD) scored twice in the dying minutes of the final game to deny Hearts the title?

He is now living out here in Australia and a few years ago the Australian Hibernian Supporters Club had him as their Guest of Honour at their annual get together. He had no ties to Hibs at all other than the fact that he was responsible for their arch rivals not winning the league.

Now that is pure hatred.

You nearly merged with the enemy to didn't you?:eek::eek:

[Remi Moses]

I think Manyoo are home & hosed.

West Brom, Middlesbrough & Stoke are my fancies to be relegared.

Would that make it 18 all:D:D

[GVGjr]

I think Manyoo are home & hosed.

West Brom, Middlesbrough & Stoke are my fancies to be relegared.

Big win by your boys must give you some hope.

[The Coon Dog]

Big win by your boys must give you some hope.

Yes, terrific to beat Chelsea, though to be honest, I wonder how much was due to the sending off of Frank Lampard? That was a poor decision by the ref.

Liverpool seemed all set to huff & puff without being able to blow the house down, only late strikes by Torres in the 89th & 94th mins.

Manyoo just seem to be doing what Champion teams do, playing poorly but still managing to pick up 3 points, plus their defence hasn't let a goal in for umpteen dozen games now.

Just at the moment I can't see Manyoo dropping the sort of points with silly draws that Liverpool & Chelsea have been doing.

[craigsahibee]

You nearly merged with the enemy to didn't you?:eek::eek:

A merger even more sinister than the one we don't speak of (circa 1989). Hearts chairman, Sir Wallace Mercer was prepared to buy Hibs, strip the club of all it's assets and then let it cease to exist. Is it no wonder that a couple of years ago after Mercer passed away, a section of Hibs fans continued to sing and chant during a minute silence to honour his passing.

Hatred and rivalry between even the fiercest AFL clubs has nothing on the Old Firm and Edinburgh teams. From 12,000 miles away it's difficult to raise that same type of fervour, but you have to admire the supporters for their passion. Even if it is somewhat misguided at times.

A friend of mine in Scotland tells the story of how his father in law (Hearts supporter) now does not speak to his sister in law because one Christmas she innocently bought him a green jumper and he threw it back in her face because he would never be seen wearing green.

[Lantern]

Man U. The engraver may as well start now. No WAY Fergie is going to let this slip, and their squad is pure quality.

Aston Villa are strong smokeys for second spot now.. they are only a couple of points there and thereabouts, and Chelsea and Liverpool are mentally suspect.

Do we even need to talk about Arsenal? If there's any justice, Everton will finish fourth of fifth.

And regardless of what The Four Diego's listeners say, Tim Cahill is Australia's most important player. By a country mile.

[Lantern]

YES!!

FA-Cup post, but FINALLY Everton beats a member of the Big Four, and Liverpool at that.

Grand. (Not an Everton fan, strictly speaking, but I'm definitely right behind Everton and Aston Villa to break the stranglehold of the moneybags!)

[The Coon Dog]

YES!!

FA-Cup post, but FINALLY Everton beats a member of the Big Four, and Liverpool at that.

Grand. (Not an Everton fan, strictly speaking, but I'm definitely right behind Everton and Aston Villa to break the stranglehold of the moneybags!)

Might prove to be a blessing in disguise for Liverpool.

[The Coon Dog]

So, after 2 consecutive slip up by the boys from Old Trafford, does the door remain ever so slightly ajar for Liverpool?

Man Utd have played a game less, but their lead has been cut to just one point & Liverpool now have a superior goal difference.

Big week for Liverpool; knocking 4 past Real Madrid, 4 past Man Utd & 5 past Aston Villa with Rafa Benetiz signing a new contract.

What about the other end? Who's going down?

Team/Played/Goal Dif/Points

Bolton 30 -12 34
Hull 30 -17 33
Sunderland 30 -10 32
Portsmouth 29 -14 32
Stoke 30 -18 32
Blackburn 30 -16 31
Newcastle 30 -13 29
Middlesbrough 30 -21 27
West Brom 30 -29 24

[Lantern]

Liverpool have gone nuts! But I don't think it's really sustainable form they're displaying, just riding the momentum at the moment; teams will start to tighten up against them again... they've played teams that would all have fancied their chances against them (Real, Man U, Aston Villa) and the games were wide open, teams will now be shutting up shop from the first minute from now on in. Liverpool has always performed well in high-tempo games against the big guns, their problem has always been winning games/not dropping points against the 'lower' sides in the EPL that don't let them play.

Definite signs of panic from Old Trafford (losing to a team they just beat 4-0 a fortnight ago), but they're still in the driver's seat. It's theirs to lose from here.

Injuries will tell the tale though -- that's not a fit back four they're fielding.

[lemmon]

Bolton 30 -12 34
Hull 30 -17 33
Sunderland 30 -10 32
Portsmouth 29 -14 32
Stoke 30 -18 32
Blackburn 30 -16 31
Newcastle 30 -13 29
Middlesbrough 30 -21 27
West Brom 30 -29 24

Come on boys, you can do it. I was predicting mid table at the start of the year, not sure why we have fallen so far.

[GVGjr]

Is there any chance that Newcastle United could do a Leeds United and slip right down?

My guess is that if a club that size slipped back and didn't regain entry to the premier league the following season the size of debt with substantial contracts would really knock them around.

It's a shame that Wigan probably can't make the top 6 but I suppose they have at least avoided relegation.

[The Coon Dog]

Is there any chance that Newcastle United could do a Leeds United and slip right down?

My guess is that if a club that size slipped back and didn't regain entry to the premier league the following season the size of debt with substantial contracts would really knock them around.

It's a shame that Wigan probably can't make the top 6 but I suppose they have at least avoided relegation.

It's a bit of a worry for the Toon. Too big a club with tremendous local support who need to be playing in the Premier League. Hasn't helped that they haven't had a stable manager all season.

I reckon both Newcastle & Blackburn will survive the drop. I hope they do any road.

[Remi Moses]

International break has come at the right for United,possibly the wrong time for Liverpool. Bad news is that the vermin [Leeds] might get promoted:mad:

[jaxson42]

It takes a fair bit for people to get under my skin especially when they are passionate about their side because that is something I would normally respect but these fools crossed the line from confidence to arrogance so far it was very easy to write them and Liverpool off. They were overly arrogant in their working ability as well and yet could never back it up and hit any targets or timeframes or milestones either.
They are probably also the reason why I think dual passports are nothing more than a rort that a selected few exploit.


I spent some time in England in 2005 and worked at a pub in a place called Thame with a liverpuddlian Licensee who with her husband also ran a pub in Wigan. They were both fanatastic, she was a great scouser and they couldn't have done more to help me whilst I was there. It's like TCD said there are good and bad in all, just depends who you strike first.

Further in my travels when I was in Rome I saw a UEFA Cup game Roma vs Salzburg (I think that's the spelling) where upon leaving the venue a nutter Roma fan tried to take my bulldogs scarf (from around my neck) thinking it was Salzburg colors. He didn't stand a chance as I wasn't letting go and he eventually understood it wasn't Salzburg but Australian Football. I only got a further 3 to 4 hundred metres down the road and as I crossed an intersection and got to the other side two Roma supporters in tracksuits were staring at me (I shit myself) but from the previous experience I knew what they were looking at. I was wearing a Hamburg SV jacket which is very similar colors to Salzburg, as soon as I showed them the Hamburg Symbol they took no more notice and looked the other way.

As such international soccer is great but there are complete and utter nutters in most if not all.

[Lantern]

Spend some time in South America and you'll know what real football nutters are. I used to think the European hooligans were bad -- they really are -- but even the worst skinheads are relatively tame compared to what I saw when I spent some time in Chile and Argentina.

They're nuts over there -- more than half the crowds are gang members, and every game ends in what can loosely be called a three-way riot between rival supporters and the police, which behave like another gang. A couple of years ago the big Chilean derby between Colo-Colo and Universidad was called off after 20 mins when one of the teams (i forget which, I think Universidad) scored the first goal and the rival fans went mad and stormed the pitch. There are regular stabbings and gang murders carried out during matches (check out youtube for some examples -- not for weak stomachs!) and for hours after the games there'll be kids just running around into the night smacking each other with metal pipes.

Crowds used to be huge, but have dwindled as families stay away fearing for their safety. Referees are escorted to and from matches in police vans.

It's a frightening mix of mass unemployment, gang culture and football fanaticism, with a liberal dose of quick-fire latin temperament thrown in.

[jaxson42]

Spend some time in South America and you'll know what real football nutters are. I used to think the European hooligans were bad -- they really are -- but even the worst skinheads are relatively tame compared to what I saw when I spent some time in Chile and Argentina.

They're nuts over there -- more than half the crowds are gang members, and every game ends in what can loosely be called a three-way riot between rival supporters and the police, which behave like another gang. A couple of years ago the big Chilean derby between Colo-Colo and Universidad was called off after 20 mins when one of the teams (i forget which, I think Universidad) scored the first goal and the rival fans went mad and stormed the pitch. There are regular stabbings and gang murders carried out during matches (check out youtube for some examples -- not for weak stomachs!) and for hours after the games there'll be kids just running around into the night smacking each other with metal pipes.

Crowds used to be huge, but have dwindled as families stay away fearing for their safety. Referees are escorted to and from matches in police vans.

It's a frightening mix of mass unemployment, gang culture and football fanaticism, with a liberal dose of quick-fire latin temperament thrown in.


If it is as you say I'm not going anywhere near South America.

Anyway my tip and hope for the title is HAMBURG SV. Go the Burgers.

[The Coon Dog]

A first up loss to Shearer at home v Chelsea. Gee the 3 North East teams in Newcastle, Middlesbrough & Sunderland are all struggling.

Chelsea & Liverpool keeping the pressure on at the top.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm185/roos4eva/Capture-3.jpg

[The Underdog]

Thought I'd mention that overnight the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers guaranteed themsleves promotion to the Premier League for next year. I can already hear the big four quaking in their boots:p

[The Coon Dog]

Thought I'd mention that overnight the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers guaranteed themsleves promotion to the Premier League for next year. I can already hear the big four quaking in their boots:p

Congrats Underdog! The tough part is not being promoted, more staying up. Seems 1 or 2 of the 3 promoted teams each season go straight back down. I thinks managers reward those who gained promotion without really adding to their squads with the depth needed to survive.

[The Underdog]

Congrats Underdog! The tough part is not being promoted, more staying up. Seems 1 or 2 of the 3 promoted teams each season go straight back down. I thinks managers reward those who gained promotion without really adding to their squads with the depth needed to survive.

Historically for Wolves I think you'll find the toughest part has been being promoted:rolleyes:. They've managed to implode many times before so getting there is somewhat surprising, especially as they've lead from the front all year. However you're totally right. Staying up will be the hardest part. Hopefully they've learnt from 04 when they didn't spend on players and went straight back to the Championship. The current management seems to be pretty spot on and I think will give them every chance. They're good players are quite young across the board so hopefully they've got some improvement in them, but they will need to strengthen the squad to have a chance. McCarthy is a relegation specialist though. He's taken Sunderland down twice (good on him for this season though).

[Lantern]

Lucky bastard.

Sheffield Wednesday is still stuck in mid-table hell in the Championship. A little while yet before I see my beloved Owls mixing it with the big boys again where they belong.

Sucks when the only time you ever hear about your club on the news is when they talk about the Hillsborough disaster, and vision of the stadium in all those segments always make it look like abandoned, or like a graveyard: We still play there every other week!

[The Coon Dog]

Sucks when the only time you ever hear about your club on the news is when they talk about the Hillsborough disaster!

There was this:

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