Tell us three things you have learned today
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Tell us three things you have learned today
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We cannot give top 8 teams a head start like today and expect to win.
We need to employ Plugger Lockett , Bernie Quinlan or Peter McKenna asap, perhaps all three.
Zaine Cordy's aggression in the backhalf is a plus.
and as an aside, Brisbane have some good kids and the efforts of Robinson and Rich were pretty damn good.
Beveridge can be a bit reactive - we're making a habit of second half comebacks after we've made the required adjustments
Macrae hasn't peaked yet, showed a new side to his game today
Adams can play as a forward if needed
1. Adams can play forward. Showed a lot before we required him down back.
2. We still lack another mid, Biggs shouldn't be in the side.
3. Stringer looks better as a mid - good signs.
1. Brisbane are a changed side under Fagan.
2. We haven't forgotten how to run out games.
3. A specialist goal kicking coach would not be a waste of money.
1. Toby's development as a midfielder is promising
2. That was Adams best all round game of his career. Looked comfortable forward and won every contest defensively. Played to his strengths with the ball in hand, too.
3. If Suckling doesn't nail straight forward goals, what value does he provide? Not much & he's on thin ice.
Don't know if I agree with this; he looked lost at times and only really ever looked comfortable with the ball coming in to contests where he could play from behind. I'd leave him down back forever, his move to the backline is probably what won the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by comrade
He took 4 marks in the first quarter and kicked a goal, then had to go back in the 2nd quarter when it all went to s***.Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Days
1 Thank god Adams stayed at the end of last year
2 we can't keep conceding leads and reeling teams in. In a way winning these games is the worst thing that can happen, it's masking fundamental problems with our whole approach that will become gaping holes if we don't address them.
3 Flethcher Roberts is looking really composed down back.
1. We need to acknowledge that Libba is going poorly at the minute. Can't get his hands on the footy.
2. We need to acknowledge that Tom Boyd is going super-poorly at the minute. His intensity was much better in the second half - but he is miles off good footy...and we sit here waiting and hoping - that it happens (again) soon.
3. The self belief our team has is off the charts, and when we are going poorly - Dahl, Bont, Stringer, Macrae, JJ, Bob and Matthew Boyd (amongst others - but in particular) find something really special.
1. We've not played a 4 quarter game all year, and are 4-1. But that can't keep happening as opponents get better now.
2. That could be the worst 5+ goal win in our recent history.
3. The Adams, Roberts & Cordy back tall group is doing ok without Dale Morris.
Can't agree Ozza, not going great but still our leading clearance player today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozza
The centre bounce set up is really struggling to curtail the opposition. Even if we create a secondary stoppage so more players can enter the contest, we are rarely able to even do that. Campbell got beaten daily today which didn't help, but opponents are just getting clean ball and it's putting our defenders under the pump. Not sure what Bevo is playing at given Jong & McLean spent plenty of time in there, whereas Brisbane used the same 3 about 90% of the time.
I did have to laugh when he took the mark in the forward 50 because he immediately took the defenders position and went out of his way to get behind his opponent which seemed to confuse the Brisbane defender so much Adams somehow marked the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Days
He's not kicking the ball Slim. 26 kicks for the whole year. Clearance stats don't cut the mustard when they count a clearance as having a handball in traffic to another bloke in traffic. He's going shithouse mate! We're talking about a best and fairest winner who is in the discussion of our best players when in form.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Do we drop him and let him find form in the VFL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozza
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by bornadog
He's not a droppable player (would have to be a sustained and spectacular form slump for that conversation to come up).
Going shithouse is way too harsh for mine. I think Libba is being asked to play a very different role to that which he played when he won the B&F. He's spending a fair bit of time up forward, often in a relatively defensive role, and seems like he is also being asked to quell some opposition mids. Someone (Ryan Buckland who does interesting analysis) has called him a designated tackler which is intriguing, and he's averaging more than double last year. This set of graphs is interesting in terms of his stats over the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozza
I'm not saying Libba is in career best form, but it seems Bevo and the coaching group are trying to do a few things differently with the midfield this year. They haven't hit gold yet, but I think Libba's role has changed based on their new strategies. He's generally not getting the ball with space to kick it, and his hands remain above elite, so I'm not sure that we need to be worried about the dip in his kicking numbers (our efficiency with the ball has generally been good this year, so it's not like we are missing him kicking it).
We have an excess of half-back flankers, so part of the aim seems to be to find ways to involve them in productive ways. You can see how eager we are to get the ball in the hands of players like JJ and Murph in the forward half, and to involve Stringer more when he is around, as well as players like McLean. I value Libba's kicking, but he's much better at clearences than most at the club, so if his current role means he kicks less, and those named above kick (and run) more, then I can live with that.
Agree re Libba and Tom Boyd. Libba is a mile off his best and I'm honestly starting to wonder if Tom Boyd's finals series was a blip rather than an upward trend. I'm buggered if I know how he took all of those marks in the GF because he drops nearly everything the rest of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozza
1. Dunkley's running is so impressive for someone so young. Not only does he excel at getting out the back, but he also generally makes the opposition pay. Two things however. He can still be a bit slow moving the ball on which can be a problem because quick movement is a key part of our style. Sometimes Dunkley wants to size things up rather than just quickly give the ball to someone in a better position (he had a bad moment with the ball deep on a wing in the 4th quarter, but made up for it with other contributions). Secondly, I suspect he might be told during the week that a big celebration of a goal that reduces our deficit to a bit over 5 goals is perhaps not so appropriate (but he is young and is looking like a fantastic pick).
2. I think Brisbane might do pretty well under Fagan. Perhaps it was the shared Hawthorn experience, but they were impressive in sweating on a few of our plays to turn the ball over. It was particularly noticeable that they picked off a number of our kicks inboard on the 45 degree angle, and they were also rewarded by sending crumbers to the back of packs in their 50 - it's been bugging me for awhile now (maybe all the time under Beveridge actually), that we still err relatively often on having too many people fly for the mark in the oppositions 50. I guess you have to choose your poison (and clearly we've generally done well), but Brisbane exploited it superbly today.
3. I know he's likely to retire after this year, but Murphy remains such a bloody good player. It's a delight to have the luxury of sending him forward at the moment. His ability to find space in a crowd is wonderful, and that chip to Dunkley off his left was one of the plays of the game - not as good as his kick to Bontempelli v Sydney, but still very impressive. Like Dunkley, Murphy also sometimes ignores the first good option, but I'm sure he has a license to do that, because he has the rare ability to see and create even better options (I'm not sure Dunkley ever will, though he'll give his all to improve every aspect of his game - it's not a major criticism because few people can create like Murphy can). That all said, it's a relief that his 300th is over. It seemed like he tried a bit hard in this game at times, and some of his kicking forward was uncharacteristically sloppy, and early on he wanted the ball when other options were better.
1. We have too many plodders in the backline (Biggs/suckling/Boyd)
2. The form of Libba is concerning
3. Comebacks like that WONT happen against top 6 sides
3. Zaine Cordy was outstanding yesterday. Read the ball well, killed a number of contests and used it well. Took a big step forward IMO.
2. The Lions aren't as bad as their reputation. It'll take a few years, but some of their kicking is excellent. I actually enjoyed watching them play.
1. Jake Stringer will take mark of the year one day.
Have you ever seen a more spectacular dropped mark highlight package? Must admit it is starting to grind my gears a fair bit, simply because he never bloody marks the thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternWest
Never. It's ridiculous how high he gets, and it constantly hits him in the hands. Surely it's only a matter of time!Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimPickens
Also, Dunkley kicking a career high 3 goals and whilst playing under duress. If he can keep slotting goals, well, he's going to be very close to elite. It's going to be interesting seeing him in a few years playing as a midfielder with extra experience, strength and training.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogtragic
Yep. I'm betting we don't end up with his little brother.
1. Fair to say Zaine is better than Ayce . Draft pick steal
2. Lions under fagan look more like a football team
3. We need to be better for longer periods , to spasmodic currently .
1. It is called confirmation bias. Tom doesn't actually drop any more marks than other players....I have seen the "next big thing" Tom Lynch drop some very easy marks this year for example. It is just that every time Tom drops a mark it confirms your bias in your mind that he "drops everything".Quote:
Originally Posted by The Underdog
The reality is that Tom is playing part time key forward and part time ruck, 2 positions where it usually takes many seasons to develop into a good player. Tom showed his potential on Grand Final day, and when he has 5 or 6 seasons in the system, I expect that to be the norm.
2. We are missing a lot of key players, so to be 4-1, regardless of form, augers well for the pointy end of the season.
3. Our backline is a bit disorganised at the moment, which is leading to allowing too many easy goals out the back.
Disagree. Based on his career to date he is just about the worst mark I've seen. No matter the situation, whether it is a pack Mark or uncontested lead up the wing he is at best a 50-50 shot of marking it. And if he is going for a chest mark you can almost guarantee he is going to drop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamethrower
His technique is terrible, best shown when he is taking overhead Marks. He doesn't adjust to catch the ball at all. Basically his whole plan is to stick his arms up on the air like a ken doll and hope the ball gets wedged between them somehow.
To his credit he often meets the ball at it's highest point and has had matches where it has come together for him, but I feel it's more luck when he takes a mark than design.
I do like him but for mine he has huge flaws in his game that I'm not sure will just be fixed when he hits a certain amount of games.
I agree his technique is shoddy. It's bizarre that a player can go through the elite pathway as a junior, dominate throughout, become the consensus number 1 pick and have such a flaw in your game that hasn't improved at all in a professional environment. In fact, it seems to be getting worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by soupaman
I think he actually expects to drop it so sub-consciously doesn't launch 100% at it. The grand final is a complete outlier at this stage...perhaps due to the increased stakes, he mentally just decided to let go.
And the prelim.Quote:
Originally Posted by comrade
When he watches the ball all the way he is fine but as soon as he thinks about the next thing he is going to do he takes his eye off the ball and drops the mark. It's a concentration thing I think. He needs to learn to concentrate on what he is doing.
I think he will be fine.
Boyd is an interesting one. His hands are terrible, so his hurt factor in attack is nowhere near where it should be. However his ability to contribute as a genuine ruckman is something no other young tall in the competition is able to do.
There's aren't too many U22 key forwards who are braining them in the comp at the moment. All of Peter Wright, Darcy Moore, Josh Schache, Paddy McCartin, Joe Daniher and Jesse Hogan are not providing a hell of a lot more than Boydy currently is in attack.
That's all far too balanced. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sedat
I still have no doubt he can develop into a gun KPF, who can chop out a few minutes in the ruck. But he needs a lot of experience in game of playing as a KPF to put theory into practice about where to run, how to work out his forward craft, how to work with other forwards, work through tough opponents etc. That means playing him predominantly as a forward as much as possible for most games possible. He's just simply not going to develop into the best forward he can if he's running around in the ruck. If he gets to 100 games and is not that gun forward, he will be a dominant ruckman as a back up position. But he needs time and experience up forward. His long bomb goal on Saturday was from the top shelf, as was his speccy against Sydney and his career goal kicking accuracy of 70%. I get he drops some puds, but the rest of his offerings are going to elite and rucking him too much now will be a self fulfilling prophecy of him only being a ruckman because he hasn't honed his ford craft. He still hasn't played 50 games yet, despite bettering what Tom Hawkin's did on GF day a couple of years younger and in half the games. How's not the time to lose patience and focus on him as a long term prospect as the gun KPF he will grow into.
Buddy dropped plenty of easy marks when he was young (still does) but he had plenty of other assets to cover it up.
Buddy's probably going to kick well over 1,000 AFL goals (5 more years on his contract?), not many players can say that. Mind you, his accuracy even in his 100 goal season was poor and he attracted a heap of media heat too. We just need to play the long game, be patient and then enjoy the years where for many of us slightly younger, saw a genuinely big and good KPF heading up the forwardline. His entire time with us has had very little consistency as a forward group with Crameri suspended for 12 months, Redders injured, Cloke in only this year and a rotation of smalls, Cordy pinch hitting. All while our forward entries have been absolutely consistently putrid. It will come together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodogs
Tom Boyd has shown little to date since arriving at the Bulldogs to suggest that he is a key forward. His two break out games in last year's Preliminary and Grand Final showed emphatically that his future is very much as a ruckman.Roughead and Boyd proved to be a more than capable rucking combination and maybe Boyd's slow to the year could well be that he needs Roughead's influence which has been our biggest loss this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogtragic
How many games does a young, 21yo, KPF get to develop into a gun (that many of us watched many times as a junior) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggety Back Pocket
10 games? 20 games? 40 games? 60 games?
What age do we give them to mature and develop as a player, before saying they can't do what many think they can?
Age 19? 21? 23?
Do we factor in shoulder injuries, shoulder reconstructions and a lack of forwardline around them and poor delivery?
I'm not being a smart arse, I'm trying to understand the metric to see how others in the league compare.
I'll update this as I go:
Tom Boyd (pick 1) (traded young): 43 games, 40 goals, 23 behinds
Josh Kennedy (pick 4) (traded young): At 43 games, 46 goals, 26 behinds
Tom Hawkins (would've been top 10): At 43 games, 59 goals, 32 behinds with a gun midfield and a heap of forward support
Nick Riewoldt (pick 1): At 43 games, 44 goals, 30 behinds
Jack Riewoldt (pick 11): At 43 games, 53 goals, 31 behinds
Jon Patton (pick 1): At 43 games, 48 goals, 32 behinds
Matthew Pavlich (pick 4): At 43 games (as a forward), 44 goals, 26 behinds
Jono Brown (would've been a top 10): At 43 games, 43 goals, 26 behinds
Travis Cloke (would've been a top 10): At 43 games, 34 goals, 40 behinds
Jarrad Waite: At 43 games, 37 goals, 37 behinds
So far Tom Boyd isn't all that bad as a KPF. In fact, one could argue he deserves to be mentioned in this group elite KPF players based on comparative output. I'm not sure those numbers convince me that Boyd can't continue to develop and improve as a key forward, probably the opposite.
I learned that
1. Dunkley will become a great player in the AFL in a couple years. He could be the next Josh Kennedy (syd). He is so strong for a second year player. He often stands up in tackles releasing the ball to team mates. He's body is filling out nicely.
2. Biggs is going to cough up his spot to Bailey Williams at this rate. With pressure for a spot in the 22 getting hotter now that the VFL has started, Biggs can't afford to fumble the ball like he did against a bottom 4 team. Personally I think he gets another chance but he needs to improve.
3. Our goal kicking problems is all between the ears. In the pre-game warm up the players where slotting them from all angles. The game starts and we can't kick a goal 15 metres dead in front.