Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

Reading through the Tory Dickson thread I came across this: (BTW, where are you Desi)

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Originally Posted by Desipura

Interesting to see who will become the better player Crozier or Clay Smith. Especially given B Mac wanted Smith and the recruiting guys wanted Crozier.
It sounds like Crozier has the potential to become an A grader however needs to put in alot of work in the gym. I have read there are queries on his desire/intensity, he can often go in and out of games. Prefers to take a hanger than provide multiple leads to the kicker.

Smith is probably the safer bet in terms of being able to get the best out of himself. Has been reported that he hunts the ball even if he is outnumbered, hits the man hard and will do everything possible to become an AFL footballer. (Hopefully he can address his kicking) Probably does not have the upside of a Crozier but as I said previously perhaps a safer bet? What do you think?

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That got me thinking, did we make the right decision at the time? Who would you prefer now in hindsight?

Here is a comparison of the players, and let's forget Clay ahs had 3 knee reco's.

Player Statistics Comparison Clay Smith Name Hayden Crozier Western Bulldogs Team Fremantle Dockers Forward Position Defender 48 Career Games 52 Gippsland Power Origin Eastern Ranges May 11, 1993 Date of Birth December 24, 1993 23yr 11mth Age 23yr 3mth 182cm Height 185cm 83kg Weight 83kg 2011 National Draft Last Drafted In 2011 National Draft Round 1, Pick #17 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #20 Western Bulldogs Last Drafted By Fremantle Dockers Career Stats for Season Career 48 Games 52 8.1 Kicks Per Game 8.3 6.0 Handballs Per Game 4.0 14.1 Disposals Per Game 12.2 3.0 Marks Per Game 3.6 0.7 Goals Per Game 0.7 0.5 Behinds Per Game 0.4 5.0 Tackles Per Game 2.8 0.1 Hitouts Per Game 0 2.5 Inside 50s Per Game 2.1 0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.2 0.9 Frees For Per Game 0.7 1.3 Frees Against Per Game 0.4 6.2 Contested Possessions Per Game 3.9 7.8 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 8.3 9.2 Effective Disposals Per Game 9.0 65.2% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 73.8% 2.7 Clangers Per Game 1.3 0.1 Contested Marks Per Game 0.3 0.5 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.3 1.9 Clearances Per Game 0.5 0.8 Rebound 50s Per Game 1.3 1.2 One Percenters Per Game 0.9 0.2 Bounces Per Game 0.2 70.4 Time On Ground % Per Game 70.2

You can't take into consideration the knee injuries as it is purely subjective as to whether they have held him back or made him even more determined.

They are such different players it's difficult to make a comparison. Whilst Smith is less skilful, one of the major criticisms was his kicking which he has improved dramatically. The knock on Crozier was his application and whilst there have been promising signs in recent weeks, he has yet to show the required improvement to make any long term judgement.

At this stage McCartney made the right call.

Clay Smith being best on ground and kicking 4 goals in a prelim kind of makes it hard for Crozier to ever be in front in my eyes, in that comparison!

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Originally Posted by Ozza

Clay Smith being best on ground and kicking 4 goals in a prelim kind of makes it hard for Crozier to ever be in front in my eyes, in that comparison!

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by always right

You can't take into consideration the knee injuries as it is purely subjective as to whether they have held him back or made him even more determined.

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Seems unlikely given everything that's ever been said about him.

No doubt he'd have played far more games if he'd been fit his entire time at the club and his finals performances were a perfect demonstration of his value

Who knows it depends on development too . Our development is very good so we will never know what Crozier could have been with us.

Take out Clay's 3 knee Reco's and he'd be around the 100 game mark.
Clay every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

I was kind of hoping that Crozier would have another year in and out of the Freo team because I think he would have been a terrific moneyball selection on the cheap. He looks like he's turned the corner off an admittedly small sample size in the last couple of weeks. I do love his skillset.

Clay's finals series last year immortalises him as a Bulldog legend. Whatever happens in the future, he was a vital part of our September campaign and will always justify the decision to select him.

First answer: I'm pretty sure Desi was given a permanent holiday.

Second answer: they're both excellent players, and I'll always be grateful for Clay's contribution last September.

Yeah Crozier only being 4 games ahead of Clay despite 3 ACL's is pretty decisive

Can't believe Clay hasn't made it to 50 games yet

Crozier needs the ball in his hands to impact the contest, Smith doesn't.
That puts Clay ahead for me.

Entirely different types of players. I love Clay but his career may be a short one.

Clay's best is a manifestation of what we as fans love/want to identify about Footscray's footballing identity. It is hard, tough, determined and ruthless physically as well as effective up front. He is a little like Libba Snr in that respect.

Crozier is very silky, but I'd take clay .
Just reckon Crozier's the sort of player who wouldn't get near it in a final .
Just my two bobs

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Originally Posted by Remi Moses

Crozier is very silky, but I'd take clay .
Just reckon Crozier's the sort of player who wouldn't get near it in a final .
Just my two bobs

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Garry Rohan says hello ;)

Interesting that they started at very different football clubs in terms of list phases, he would have received more opportunity in our program as a first and second year player - at the same time Clay would have played considerably more football had he not have had knee injuries.

As Ozza states, it's hard to look past Clay given his heroics in the preliminary final last year. The big question is which of the two players is capable of taking a step up to the next level.

Crozier looks to have a lot of class and seems like a player who will turn into someone who would only need a few touches to really hurt you.

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Originally Posted by jeemak

Interesting that they started at very different football clubs in terms of list phases, he would have received more opportunity in our program as a first and second year player - at the same time Clay would have played considerably more football had he not have had knee injuries.

As Ozza states, it's hard to look past Clay given his heroics in the preliminary final last year. The big question is which of the two players is capable of taking a step up to the next level.

Crozier looks to have a lot of class and seems like a player who will turn into someone who would only need a few touches to really hurt you.

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You mean like 4 touches in a prelim ;)?

May end up with both.

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Originally Posted by bornadog

May end up with both.

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I'm happy we are actively looking to address need. Trengove addresses defence/ruck, and we need good kicks. So Crozier would be a good get. Another one or two good users would be ideal through tree and hopefully Webb can break into the side more next year and use that great left foot of his.