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Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Herald Sun, October 17, 2016,
Michael Warner, Herald Sun
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...c92432d0309b93
EXCLUSIVE: SECRET Western Bulldogs documents detail explosive undisclosed claims about the leaking of inside information to the Adelaide Crows before last year’s elimination final.
The Herald Sun can reveal Bulldogs chiefs informed the AFL they had obtained “independent corroboration” of allegations that disaffected Dogs defender Michael Talia leaked parts of the team’s game plan to his brother, star Adelaide backman Daniel Talia, in the days before the match.
The Talias, who have always maintained their innocence, were cleared by the AFL last November after a 63-day integrity unit investigation.
But a letter and submission from the Bulldogs to the AFL, obtained by the Herald Sun, expose the Dogs’ fury at the league’s handling of the probe and its exoneration of the brothers.
“There is a clearly sufficient basis for the AFL to find that there was an improper communication of confidential information,” Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon asserted in the club’s damning submission to the league.
The documents reveal witness testimony that Michael Talia was “angry and resentful that he had been excluded from the WBFC team for the final” before talking to his brother.
And the Dogs were scathing of the AFL for accepting the explanations of players at the centre of the scandal rather than the views of coach Luke Beveridge and list manager Jason McCartney. Beveridge was prepared to go “on oath” about conversations with Crows defender Kyle Cheney.
The morning after the final, *!Cheney told his Hawthorn mate, Ben Stratton, and later Beveridge that *!Michael Talia had leaked game tactics to the Crows.
But 12 days later, in a change of story accepted by AFL investigators, Cheney claimed he was only “joking”, despite Beveridge’s view the original claims were real. The assertion of a “joke” was critical to the ultimate finding that there was no cheating.
Documents reveal the Dogs dismissed the “practical joke” explan*!ation outright, as an “invention”.
The AFL should be concerned that Cheney had been “participating in a cover-up”, the Bulldogs said, adding: “His behaviour is disgraceful and *!inappropriate.”
Documents reveal the Dogs said they had “obtained a degree of independent corroboration” of the Talia allegations from a conversation between McCartney and the father of Crows defender Jake Lever, four days after the Bulldogs’ seven-point loss in the September 12 knockout final. Al Lever later accused McCartney of “ fabricating the story”.
Damning allegations that the Crows were made aware of an “unusual role” to be played by Dogs forward Tory Dickson in the MCG match, as well as of plans for Bulldogs star Jake Stringer, were also detailed.
And the Herald Sun can reveal Bulldogs assistant coach Steven King and Adelaide backline coach Darren Milburn were alleged to have deleted text messages relating to the Talia allegations.
This occurred after the AFL was asked to investigate, but before they were asked for the messages. No AFL findings were made against the coaches.
In further claims within the Dogs documents, not disclosed by the AFL in its publicly released summary of findings into the Talia matter:
CHENEY admitted telling Stratton that Daniel Talia had given Adelaide “a heads-up about the Bulldogs game plan and knew a couple of things about the Bulldogs game plan” and the information had come from Michael Talia;
AN AFL investigator told Dogs chiefs he “thought nothing of it” after Michael Talia claimed to have lost his phone and Daniel deleted his texts — actions the Dogs described as “matters for deep concern and suspicion” and potential civil or criminal acts; and
THE Bulldogs were denied access to witness statements from key Adelaide figures.
In the October 14 letter to the AFL, Gordon said the club had lost faith in the league integrity unit’s ability to carry out the Talia investigation.
In a November 12 submission, he wrote: “WBFC does not accept the truthfulness of the Talias’ explanation for the loss of their phone records as they have alleged.
That both brothers would lose access to this evidence in all the circumstances described simply does not pass the smell test.”
The Dogs asserted that Cheney told Stratton and Beveridge that Michael Talia had leaked the information because he was “over the Bulldogs and wanted out”.
“This anger provided a motive for his improper disclosure,” Gordon said.
The AFL’s summary of findings concluded Cheney was “in shock on both occasions that he spoke to … Bev*!eridge and was too embarrassed to explain what had occurred”.
After the November ruling, the Dogs said they were “troubled by certain aspects” of the investigation.
Michael Talia, traded to Sydney last October, admitted cocaine possession in August.
michael.warner@news.com.au
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
And we will use Talia's pick 74 to secure Travis Cloke. And it's a big win for us.
TBH I'm not sure why it's getting a run, it serves no one any good now.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
And we will use Talia's pick 74 to secure Travis Cloke. And it's a big win for us.
TBH I'm not sure why it's getting a run, it serves no one any good now.
Because if parts of it are true people at commission level will have to resign and others would face criminal charges.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Twodogs
Because if parts of it are true people at commission level will have to resign and others would face criminal charges.
You can punch Vince McMahon in the face backstage, and as satisfying as that is, Vince & chronies will still run the joint. The only difference is that they will hold much bad blood about this being public.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogtragic
You can punch Vince McMahon in the face backstage, and as satisfying as that is, Vince & chronies will still run the joint. The only difference is that they will hold much bad blood about this being public.
Good old Vince. He made the pies cheaper. Good news if you like pies.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
The full pdf documents are available on the Herald Sun article. You can tell they've been written by PG, I love it.
My favourite part is the confirmation that it was the THIRD time for the year that M Talia had 'lost' his phone when requested it for club or AFL use. Given the events of Michael's 2016, that certainly interests me.
The timing is shocking, but this matter deserved a more complete resolution than what it got last year.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
I'm glad we are not laying down and accepting the bullshit Talia(x2) dealt and got away with. The truth is out there !!
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
If we had won this match, we would have had a much harder draw this year. Hooray
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
I actually enjoyed seeing this. The AFEL sweeping it under the never ending rug was pathetic and I'm glad the club took them to task about it.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Topdog
I wonder who leaked the documents.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Western Bulldogs 2016 Premiers.
Michael Talia convicted for drug possession.
Justice served. The leaking of these documents or not, we all knew the investigation by the AFL was a complete cover-up. These are some serious allegations and both Talia brothers should have served at least 1-year bans, although in Michael's case it would hardly even matter given how inept he is at anything, especially football.
Let's just move on. We got what we wanted more than anything :)
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
The most interesting part of the story is who leaked this information from the Western Bulldogs?
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Time to tar and feather some of these corrupt scum working at headquarters.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Peter Gordon will be on SEN shortly.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
What did PG have to say ?
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
"We found out from the Herald Sun on Friday that they had these documents. We're disappointed they've seen the light of day"
"We deeply regret that it's come out today. We had no part in it."
"It's our side of the story. We don't have the powers to investigate the other side like the AFL does."
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
The irony in using "obtained" documents to reveal a snapshot of information regarding allegedly "obtained" game plan information is indeed quite humorous to me.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
The strangest part of all this to me is the text messages. Just because a text was deleted of a phone doesn't mean it's gone
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ledge
What did PG have to say ?
Listen here
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
AFL put it in the too hard basket because of all the ramifications that would happen if true .. Players fined or suspended . Crows kicked out of finals when by the time the investigaton was done they have already played the next game and it doesn't allow us back in , sueing and court cases left right and centre .. All
To hard just find it not Guilty and move on.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
I'm still kinda salty on this but then I look at Talia as a footballer/ drug possession and I'm good again haha.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
I'm personally very glad that this has seen the light of day, especially as it was not leaked by us. We can take the moral high ground about accepting the final findings 12 months ago and publicly condemning this leak, and at the same time the AFL has been exposed as the grubby cover-up merchants that they are. They are so obviously beholden to the almighty gambling dollar and will do anything to cover up anything that might expose the competition to improper conduct that the gambling organisations can use against it.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
I'd have preferred this come out after the fixture is decided for next year
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bulldogsthru&thru
Western Bulldogs 2016 Premiers.
Michael Talia convicted for drug possession.
Justice served. The leaking of these documents or not, we all knew the investigation by the AFL was a complete cover-up. These are some serious allegations and both Talia brothers should have served at least 1-year bans, although in Michael's case it would hardly even matter given how inept he is at anything, especially football.
Let's just move on. We got what we wanted more than anything :)
Yep. Dignified silence is the way ahead here, PG has done the media rounds and put our side of this report and now it's time to shut up and let the silent spaces get filled up by others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ledge
AFL put it in the too hard basket because of all the ramifications that would happen if true .. Players fined or suspended . Crows kicked out of finals when by the time the investigaton was done they have already played the next game and it doesn't allow us back in , sueing and court cases left right and centre .. All
To hard just find it not Guilty and move on.
I always thought this would come out. You know what else they won't be able to keep secret? Essendon's wilful rorting of the salary cap this year, that's what. Essendon think they have solved their problem but what they have actually done is to create a much larger problem for themselves further down the track.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hujsh
I'd have preferred this come out after the fixture is decided for next year
At least it's out now and not during the season so that's ok. We are premiers now so I'm still in celebration mode :)
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sedat
HAHAHAHAHA a brand analysis impact, lift the carpet and whoosha. Brilliant brilliant stuff by GT
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Topdog
HAHAHAHAHA a brand analysis impact, lift the carpet and whoosha. Brilliant brilliant stuff by GT
Along with the hump that's already there :-)
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
This is classic AFL, hold a mock investigation/tribunal and announce findings that suit their own interests. Their biggest problem is the public is more savvy than they give them credit for, and some of their convenient findings are so transparently amateur that they're laughable.
Yet there's still people out there (Slobbo front and centre) that want to accept the findings of the AFL tribunal that Essendon didn't dope, and call CAS (and now the Swiss Federal Court) kangaroo courts. You'd be hard placed to find an organisation in the Western World with less intergrity than the AFL, yet when an outcome suits their agenda some people are all too willing to accept their findings.
The playbook for any AFL investigation;
1) Determine the outcome that best protects the AFL brand
2) Look for evidence to support that outcome
3) Ignore any evidence that might prove contrary to the outcome you want
4) If no evidence exists to support your outcome, claim the information is private and cannot be released
5) Hold a press conference to announce you've investigated the issue fully and there's nothing to see
6) Punish an arms length scapegoat to show you took the matter seriously, but again reassure the public that even though you're punishing said scapegoat, no one did anything wrong.
7) When questioned about the laughable findings, fake outrage that your integrity is being questions, then secretly threaten anyone who continues to challenge the findings.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
I think part of the tragedy in all this is Harvey Stevens missed out on a bulldog premiership because his grandsons looked him in the eyes and lied to him. He (naturally) took the side of family and not the club. While I understand that family come first and you dont want to face up to the fact that you have helped raise two lying, cheating and ungrateful grandchildren who happily stood by and watched (even more they actually participated in) the fracturing of something that must have meant so much to Harvey through the years. How does he feel when the full story comes out and he realizes that he could have been a huge part of the greatest year in the clubs history but missed out because he has particularly ungrateful and dishonest grandsons?
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Sadly Harvey Stevens was discharged from Knox Private Hospital this morning with terminal cancer. What a thrill it was for the AFL to invite Harvey and his wife together with 5 remaining members of our 1954 Premiership team and their wives to the 'G' for our second flag.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greystache
This is classic AFL, hold a mock investigation/tribunal and announce findings that suit their own interests. Their biggest problem is the public is more savvy than they give them credit for, and some of their convenient findings are so transparently amateur that they're laughable.
Yet there's still people out there (Slobbo front and centre) that want to accept the findings of the AFL tribunal that Essendon didn't dope, and call CAS (and now the Swiss Federal Court) kangaroo courts. You'd be hard placed to find an organisation in the Western World with less intergrity than the AFL, yet when an outcome suits their agenda some people are all too willing to accept their findings.
The playbook for any AFL investigation;
1) Determine the outcome that best protects the AFL brand
2) Look for evidence to support that outcome
3) Ignore any evidence that might prove contrary to the outcome you want
4) If no evidence exists to support your outcome, claim the information is private and cannot be released
5) Hold a press conference to announce you've investigated the issue fully and there's nothing to see
6) Punish an arms length scapegoat to show you took the matter seriously, but again reassure the public that even though you're punishing said scapegoat, no one did anything wrong.
7) When questioned about the laughable findings, fake outrage that your integrity is being questions, then secretly threaten anyone who continues to challenge the findings.
8) Rinse and repeat
What a brilliant summation of the AFL modus operandi 'stache. You could apply every single issue and faux-investigation in the last 10 years and follow the exact steps to the letter.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sedat
8) Rinse and repeat
What a brilliant summation of the AFL modus operandi 'stache. You could apply every single issue and faux-investigation in the last 10 years and follow the exact steps to the letter.
9. Offer help, access and support to, or leak directly to any accredited journos who attack the threat to the brand. Have them attack the club, the president and coach to discredit them and embarrass them and the position they hold in presenting a threat to the brand. Hope that the general public lap up the public attacks and believe the dross their fed.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Did the leak come from us?
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nuggety Back Pocket
Sadly Harvey Stevens was discharged from Knox Private Hospital this morning with terminal cancer. What a thrill it was for the AFL to invite Harvey and his wife together with 5 remaining members of our 1954 Premiership team and their wives to the 'G' for our second flag.
Great to hear he was involved, sorry to hear the great man has cancer.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greystache
This is classic AFL, hold a mock investigation/tribunal and announce findings that suit their own interests. Their biggest problem is the public is more savvy than they give them credit for, and some of their convenient findings are so transparently amateur that they're laughable.
Yet there's still people out there (Slobbo front and centre) that want to accept the findings of the AFL tribunal that Essendon didn't dope, and call CAS (and now the Swiss Federal Court) kangaroo courts. You'd be hard placed to find an organisation in the Western World with less intergrity than the AFL, yet when an outcome suits their agenda some people are all too willing to accept their findings.
The playbook for any AFL investigation;
1) Determine the outcome that best protects the AFL brand
2) Look for evidence to support that outcome
3) Ignore any evidence that might prove contrary to the outcome you want
4) If no evidence exists to support your outcome, claim the information is private and cannot be released
5) Hold a press conference to announce you've investigated the issue fully and there's nothing to see
6) Punish an arms length scapegoat to show you took the matter seriously, but again reassure the public that even though you're punishing said scapegoat, no one did anything wrong.
7) When questioned about the laughable findings, fake outrage that your integrity is being questions, then secretly threaten anyone who continues to challenge the findings.
AFEL's response to released documents:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cu8hbX7UEAAOdlh.jpg:large
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bornadog
I've got no freaking idea what that statement even means. It's a template response straight outta Canberra
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Also on the point of protecting the AFL brand, I would have liked to see the results of the AFL investigation into the alleged AFL tipping off of Essendon, prior to the whole drugs saga.
It appears that the idea of the AFL investigating the AFL seems to be not much better than that of any mid eighties NSW Police enquiries into the NSW Police.
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Re: Western Bulldogs savage AFL over alleged Talia leak
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jeanette54
Also on the point of protecting the AFL brand, I would have liked to see the results of the AFL investigation into the alleged AFL tipping off of Essendon, prior to the whole drugs saga.
It appears that the idea of the AFL investigating the AFL seems to be not much better than that of any mid eighties NSW Police enquiries into the NSW Police.
What about the allegations Whitfield dodged the drug test? Haven't heard a peep.