Lake gone

[G-Mo77]

Lake wanted to go, and to be frank I think we were comfortable of the prospect of losing him. With this in mind, what do you both believe would have been a realistic scenario for Hawthorn to come up with if pressed harder by JMac?

We didn't press harder that's the problem right there. All I hear is we would have lost him next season, no other team was interested. So what! He was under contract at the WB for 2013 and they were desperate to buy. We held the cards and we're the ones rolling over? If we pressed harder they may have caved, they may not have. Still for a quality player like Lake I would have liked our team of negotiators to use the 3 weeks to at least try and come up with the best possible deal.

JMac and the WB media crew can spin it anyway they like. We caved at a threat from a player manager on day 1 of the trade period and got a shitty deal in the process.

[Sedat]

Your dislike of Fantasia is patently obvious as you have stated it adnauseum. Can we look forward to more of the same with Jmac?

Trade week negotiation is only one part of JMac's role - I haven't been happy with the Lake compensation outcome but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater with regard to JMac's overall roles and responsibilities. Off-loading Lake is both a prudent list management decision and a poor negotiation. For JMac's sake, it would have been a stronger statement from him to stand firm with Hawthorn on Lake's true worth and not be rushed into a decision - now all other clubs will set the bar lower with trade negotiations with the Bulldogs accordingly.

It really does pain me to criticise Fantasia but he provides so many opportunities to criticise. I simply want a far better footy operations manager at our club, someone who makes strong and sensible decisions for the betterment of the footy dept and has a far sharper attention to detail. Removing Fantasia from the responsibilities of trade week negotiations and list management is nothing but a positive move by the club, but I would like to take it a step further and replace him with someone far more competent as our head of footy ops.

[bornadog]

Trade week negotiation is only one part of JMac's role - I haven't been happy with the Lake compensation outcome but I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bathwater with regard to JMac's overall roles and responsibilities. Off-loading Lake is both a prudent list management decision and a poor negotiation. For JMac's sake, it would have been a stronger statement from him to stand firm with Hawthorn on Lake's true worth and not be rushed into a decision - now all other clubs will set the bar lower with trade negotiations with the Bulldogs accordingly.

It really does pain me to criticise Fantasia but he provides so many opportunities to criticise. I simply want a far better footy operations manager at our club, someone who makes strong and sensible decisions for the betterment of the footy dept and has a far sharper attention to detail. Removing Fantasia from the responsibilities of trade week negotiations and list management is nothing but a positive move by the club, but I would like to take it a step further and replace him with someone far more competent as our head of footy ops.

Forgetting Fantasia for a second as he would have the overall say, I thought Darlymple was the recruiter at our club, not Jmac? Jmac has to manage the list but Darlymple would be the one recruiting new players? However, having said that, trading players is whose responsibility?

[Sedat]

Considering Hawthorn's most likely non-acceptance of having selection 41 as their first pick what do you believe they realistically would have parted with for Lake?

Pick 21 on its own would have been an acceptable result. I'm quite sure West Coke will be expecting at least a top 20 pick for Mitch Brown, who is 1/10th of the key defender that Lake is. Irrespective of age, Hawthorn's needs were immediate.

[Sedat]

However, having said that, trading players is whose responsibility?

JMac's I'd have though, seeing as he is the list manager. Dalrymple selects the players in the draft and JMac manages the overall list, with both reporting through to Fantasia.

[jeemak]

Pick 21 on its own would have been an acceptable result. I'm quite sure West Coke will be expecting at least a top 20 pick for Mitch Brown, who is 1/10th of the key defender that Lake is. Irrespective of age, Hawthorn's needs were immediate.

Meaning they'd have been left with pick 41 as their first pick, and probably not worth it from their perspective.

Not sure if there's too many players on their list that they'd be willing to trade out to secure a top 30 pick either.

So eventually, we'd have been left with a mediocre player as a sweatener if we had have held out.

[bornadog]

JMac's I'd have though, seeing as he is the list manager. Dalrymple selects the players in the draft and JMac manages the overall list, with both reporting through to Fantasia.

[G-Mo77]

Meaning they'd have been left with pick 41 as their first pick, and probably not worth it from their perspective.

Not sure if there's too many players on their list that they'd be willing to trade out to secure a top 30 pick either.

So eventually, we'd have been left with a mediocre player as a sweatener if we had have held out.

I'd take my first pick in the 70's if it meant winning a flag. Winning a Premiership is the goal of every team in the AFL. Hawthorn know their time is now and would have paid for it, especially with Tippett going to Sydney. Unfortunately we'll never know what they would have paid because we were happy to take the first offer. Powerful negotiators would have laughed at that offer.

[Sedat]

Meaning they'd have been left with pick 41 as their first pick, and probably not worth it from their perspective.

Their list is in fine shape - they would only be entering the ND out of obligation to have to use the minimum 3 picks, so starting at pick 41 would not have been much of an issue for them. I think you are underestimating their urgent needs for 2013 and their strong need for Lake, who has been heavily on their radar since his protracted deal negotiations with us back in 2009.

[Desipura]

Pick 21 on its own would have been an acceptable result. I'm quite sure West Coke will be expecting at least a top 20 pick for Mitch Brown, who is 1/10th of the key defender that Lake is. Irrespective of age, Hawthorn's needs were immediate.

Lake vs Tippett in the grand final, could be a nil all result.

[Hotdog60]

The other thing is we could have played hardball and if we didn't get what we wanted we keep Brian for another year and then shake his hand and see you later.

What's SS say trading is the work of the Devil.

I'm not fussed either way, I just want what's best for the Western Bulldogs and if that meant keeping Lake to fulfill his contract so be it, if with this deal they have a particular player in mind at the draft table and we need that extra pick I'm happy with that as well.

Time will tell if it's the right deal or not.

I pray it was.

[Maddog37]

Lake vs Tippett in the grand final, could be a nil all result.

Any chance the Tippett deal falls over and he goes to the preaseason draft?

[jeemak]

I'd take my first pick in the 70's if it meant winning a flag. Winning a Premiership is the goal of every team in the AFL. Hawthorn know their time is now and would have paid for it, especially with Tippett going to Sydney. Unfortunately we'll never know what they would have paid because we were happy to take the first offer. Powerful negotiators would have laughed at that offer.

I'm glad you're not planning our list then, G-Mo77. Irrespective of current ladder position, the Hawks still need to get the most out of this draft, just like all teams.

A lot has to go right for Hawthorn to make top four next year, let alone win a flag, and I think the Hawks are smart enough to know that landing one player isn't going to make all the difference to them.

[jeemak]

Their list is in fine shape - they would only be entering the ND out of obligation to have to use the minimum 3 picks, so starting at pick 41 would not have been much of an issue for them. I think you are underestimating their urgent needs for 2013 and their strong need for Lake, who has been heavily on their radar since his protracted deal negotiations with us back in 2009.

The only thing I'm maybe underestimating is the impact Lake will have on their overall game next year.

They need to improve across the board, not just on the last line. The game moves quickly, and the Hawks (like Collingwood has) might find that out sooner rather than later.

[Sedat]

They need to improve across the board, not just on the last line. The game moves quickly, and the Hawks (like Collingwood has) might find that out sooner rather than later.

Agreed, but their list has quite a bit of incremental improvement left in it as it is, and they were a kick away from a flag this year. They need some outside run and spread (Bradley Hill come on down), they needed reinforcements down back (hello Brian), and they need Max Bailey to step up and free Hale to play 2nd ruck/forward pinch hit. Other than that, their list is premiership material in 2013.