Ayce Cordy

[Bulldog4life]

There has been a lot of discussion on Ayce Cordy in various other threads so he is an interesting subject for us to talk about. I am in the camp that sees Ayce as a very important player in our set up in the coming years due to his size and agility for a player of 202cm. I believe his position is forward pocket/ second ruck ruck similar to Tyron Vickery's position at Richmond.There are many different views on Ayce on this forum but I discovered an interesting comparison with Vickery who is considered an important player in the Richmond forward line this year. The below comparison is for 2012 and Vickery has played nearly 2 seasons more than Ayce.
What do others think of Cords and the comparison to Vickery considering how many more games Vickery has played ? Are some of us being too harsh on Ayce? Will he be important to us in the future? Can Ayce be more effective with Stringer at full forward? (Vickery has reiwoldt as full forward)


Player Statistics Comparison

Ayce Cordy Tyrone Vickery
Western Bulldogs Richmond Tigers
Forward, Ruck Forward
17 Career Games 59

Geelong Falcons Origin Sandringham Dragons

August 6, 1990 Date of Birth May 31, 1990

202cm Height 200cm
99kg Weight 97kg
Round 1, Pick #14 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #8
Western Bulldogs Last Drafted By Richmond Tigers
2012 Stats for Season 2012
12 Games 9
4.2 Kicks Per Game 4.6
3.8 Handballs Per Game 3.6
8.0 Disposals Per Game 8.1
3.3 Marks Per Game 2.3
0.7 Goals Per Game 0.8
0.6 Behinds Per Game 0.6
2.7 Tackles Per Game 2.3
2.2Hitouts Per Game 6.6
0.4 Frees For Per Game 0.6
0.5 Frees Against Per Game 0.7
4.8 Contested Possessions Per Game 3.6
3.8 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 4.9
4.6 Effective Disposals Per Game 5.6
57.5% Effective Disposals % Per Game 69.1%
1.7 Clangers Per Game 1.4
1.4 Contested Marks Per Game 0.3
1.1 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 1.1
0.2Clearances Per Game 0.9
0.1 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.2
1.0 One Percenters Per Game 2.4
0.1 Bounces Per Game 0
80.8 Time On Ground % Per Game 78.9

[F'scary]

Interesting. But Cordy still needs to spend some time in the reserves. Plan A was keep playing him regardless of form so that he would improve. That has not been successful because our team is not strong enough at the moment to carry him. Therefore, for the time being, I prefer Plan B: make do with Marko or Austin or Young or Morris at FB or CHB until Talia is ready and play "Pretty Boy" Roughead as FP/2nd Ruck. For what it is worth, I also regard Big Will as a near waste of space in the FP when he has to rest there. But at least it is only for around 5 minutes a quarter, not 25.

[whythelongface]

F'scary I disagree on using Roughead as our FP/ 2nd ruck as his development as a FB has been outstanding and we need to continue his development in this area. I believe it is a good option for Roughead to go forward, at times, when the need requires or he doesn't have a match-up, however in general we are better off as a team seeing him develop as our FB.

I would like to see Cordy given the opportunity to play as a third tall. In time I think it will work in our favour. If we can get a combination of Jones, Stringer and Cordy working as three talls we will have three genuine targets within our forward line. Of course Cordy needs to be able take marks on a regular basis, however even if he is able to compete and force the ball to ground we have seen the likes of Dahlhaus, Smith etc pick up the crumbs and create opportunities to score.

[Greystache]

I appreciate what you're trying to show, but it's not an accurate depiction. Vickery went into 2012 with a shoulder injury, only lasted 9 games before going in for a reconstruction. Cordy played almost the whole season injury free.

If you go back to 2011 Vickery and Cordy were both injury free, Vickery played 22 games and kicked 36 goals, Cordy played 2. So far this season both players are injury free (Cordy missed 1 games with a tight back), Vickery has kicked 9 goals and and averages 5 marks per game, Cordy has 3 and averages 1 mark per game.

2012 was a down season for Vickery, but in the years either side he's proven to be well ahead of Ayce in terms of development.

[Bulldog4life]

F'scary I disagree on using Roughead as our FP/ 2nd ruck as his development as a FB has been outstanding and we need to continue his development in this area. I believe it is a good option for Roughead to go forward, at times, when the need requires or he doesn't have a match-up, however in general we are better off as a team seeing him develop as our FB.

I would like to see Cordy given the opportunity to play as a third tall. In time I think it will work in our favour. If we can get a combination of Jones, Stringer and Cordy working as three talls we will have three genuine targets within our forward line. Of course Cordy needs to be able take marks on a regular basis, however even if he is able to compete and force the ball to ground we have seen the likes of Dahlhaus, Smith etc pick up the crumbs and create opportunities to score.

I agree whythelongface. I think Cords will gain a lot from having a third tall in the forward line instead of him being the number one target.

[F'scary]

F'scary I disagree on using Roughead as our FP/ 2nd ruck as his development as a FB has been outstanding and we need to continue his development in this area. I believe it is a good option for Roughead to go forward, at times, when the need requires or he doesn't have a match-up, however in general we are better off as a team seeing him develop as our FB.

I would like to see Cordy given the opportunity to play as a third tall. In time I think it will work in our favour. If we can get a combination of Jones, Stringer and Cordy working as three talls we will have three genuine targets within our forward line. Of course Cordy needs to be able take marks on a regular basis, however even if he is able to compete and force the ball to ground we have seen the likes of Dahlhaus, Smith etc pick up the crumbs and create opportunities to score.

I am not writing him off. I can see an excellent 1st ruck emerging in The-Ace-in-the-Pack. I just think he needs some time in the reserves and to force his way back in to the seniors. He has been getting an armchair ride in terms of being selected regardless of form.

Sorry but I have determined that I am not a big fan of our best forward/2nd ruckman, Roughead, playing at full back.

[whythelongface]

I am not writing him off. I can see an excellent 1st ruck emerging in The-Ace-in-the-Pack. I just think he needs some time in the reserves and to force his way back in to the seniors. He has been getting an armchair ride in terms of being selected regardless of form.

Sorry but I have determined that I am not a big fan of our best forward/2nd ruckman, Roughead, playing at full back.

No need to be sorry. You make a valid point it is just that I disagree with you

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I appreciate what you're trying to show, but it's not an accurate depiction. Vickery went into 2012 with a shoulder injury, only lasted 9 games before going in for a reconstruction. Cordy played almost the whole season injury free.

If you go back to 2011 Vickery and Cordy were both injury free, Vickery played 22 games and kicked 36 goals, Cordy played 2. So far this season both players are injury free (Cordy missed 1 games with a tight back), Vickery has kicked 9 goals and and averages 5 marks per game, Cordy has 3 and averages 1 mark per game.

2012 was a down season for Vickery, but in the years either side he's proven to be well ahead of Ayce in terms of development.

I see Minson and Roughead being our best ruck/ forward combination going forward. BMcC had earmarked Roughead early in 2012 as being our best future ruckman before being forced to move him to full back. Our team had more flexibility up forward without Cordy and Gia against Geelong. In our best team I do not see a spot for Cordy. I would like to think that our future two key defenders will be Talia and Roberts with Roughead adding experience and quality up forward to support both Jones and Stringer.

[lemmon]

I am not writing him off. I can see an excellent 1st ruck emerging in The-Ace-in-the-Pack. I just think he needs some time in the reserves and to force his way back in to the seniors. He has been getting an armchair ride in terms of being selected regardless of form.

Sorry but I have determined that I am not a big fan of our best forward/2nd ruckman, Roughead, playing at full back.

But you're a fan of our best genuine key position backman (ie. not Dale Morris) playing in the ruck?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I just don't see how or where he makes it.

Not a natural forward whatsoever. Severe lack of intensity and aggression that is absolutely required as a KPF to first make a contest and second impact the contest. He often does neither. He is an average mark and plays like a ruckman resting forward in that he rarely leads or presents to the ball. Whilst some of this can be improved, let's be realistic. We criticized Minson throughout his career for not being able to do a few of the things above, but he at does provide a contest and he's ten times the player Cordy is. Even in Minson's youngest days, he had a physical presence which Ayce does not. Why do posters think this is suddenly going to change for Ayce? It's the same reason Watts struggles -- he lacks intensity/purpose/aggression.

I do think Ayce's ruck work is OK and it forces him to move around the ground and follow the play, so to speak. He's more effective in this role because it demands more from him -- he can't just sit back like he does in the forward half of the ground. The problem is that he doesn't have the strength to match it with AFL quality ruckmen at the moment. Can he fix this? Maybe -- it is his best chance IMO.

[Bulldog Joe]

I see Minson and Roughead being our best ruck/ forward combination going forward. BMcC had earmarked Roughead early in 2012 as being our best future ruckman before being forced to move him to full back. Our team had more flexibility up forward without Cordy and Gia against Geelong. In our best team I do not see a spot for Cordy. I would like to think that our future two key defenders will be Talia and Roberts with Roughead adding experience and quality up forward to support both Jones and Stringer.

Are you sure about this.

I personally spoke to BMc at the 2012 Hall of Fame dinner and he stated that Roughead was going to be a very good Key Back.

Everything I have ever seen or heard directly from the coach or indirectly through others indicates that Roughy was earmarked very early as the Brian Lake replacement.

He first played back last year against Mitch Clark in Round 4.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Are you sure about this.

I personally spoke to BMc at the 2012 Hall of Fame dinner and he stated that Roughead was going to be a very good Key Back.

Everything I have ever seen or heard directly from the coach or indirectly through others indicates that Roughy was earmarked very early as the Brian Lake replacement.

He first played back last year against Mitch Clark in Round 4.

I can only pass on what was expressed to me by the coach. If Minson was to go down for instance who would we play as first ruck? Minson has been terrific this year and I thought he dominated against Geelong.
Roughead has been good at full back and right now is our best option but eventually I believe he could still be better value as a ruckman cum forward.

[Bulldog4life]

I appreciate what you're trying to show, but it's not an accurate depiction. Vickery went into 2012 with a shoulder injury, only lasted 9 games before going in for a reconstruction. Cordy played almost the whole season injury free.

If you go back to 2011 Vickery and Cordy were both injury free, Vickery played 22 games and kicked 36 goals, Cordy played 2. So far this season both players are injury free (Cordy missed 1 games with a tight back), Vickery has kicked 9 goals and and averages 5 marks per game, Cordy has 3 and averages 1 mark per game.

2012 was a down season for Vickery, but in the years either side he's proven to be well ahead of Ayce in terms of development.

I wasn't aware of Vickery's injury. We can only hope that Cordy continues to improve. Time will tell.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm still hopeful of Cordy making it, but as time goes on the case against him ever making it mounts.

He's got a lot of improvement to make, and whilst he's shown it in patches he has a long way to go with his performance and then the difficulty will be for him to perform consistently. I think he still needs to work on his strength and body. I hope his history of shoulder injuries hasn't ruined his ability to consistently present for overhead marks and contests, but it remains a concern based on watching him play.

Fingers crossed for Ayce, he's going to stay on the list for another couple of years at least I'd suggest, so hopefully the perseverance pays off.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm still hopeful of Cordy making it, but as time goes on the case against him ever making it mounts.

He's got a lot of improvement to make, and whilst he's shown it in patches he has a long way to go with his performance and then the difficulty will be for him to perform consistently. I think he still needs to work on his strength and body. I hope his history of shoulder injuries hasn't ruined his ability to consistently present for overhead marks and contests, but it remains a concern based on watching him play.

Fingers crossed for Ayce, he's going to stay on the list for another couple of years at least I'd suggest, so hopefully the perseverance pays off.

Oh come off it. People were saying that about Liam Jones last year!!

Not a natural forward whatsoever. Severe lack of intensity and aggression that is absolutely required as a KPF to first make a contest and second impact the contest.

Simply not true.