Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

[bornadog]

Over the past two years Macca has tried to bring in some youth, but also decided to pick some rejects from other clubs (Including VFL):


Campbell
Darley
Dickson
Fuller
Goodes
Stevens
Young

I haven't included Crameri because he was an established leading goalkicker.

Should we have chosen raw 18 year olds instead of the guys above and developed them ourselves?

[bulldogtragic]

Stevens picked us from about 4 potential clubs, and was taken second round by WCE, I wouldn't have him in there.
Young is not too bad on good days, his season before for Collingwood was a cash converters trade which we're in front of IMO.
Campbell is still raw, but we needed a tall/ruck.
Dickson has been handy in the rebuild phase, but I now longer see him long term owing to the likes of Hunter, Hrovat, Honeychurch and Dahl, with Crameri, Grant and Stringer all probably ahead of him
I didn't think we should've elvated Goodes and Fuller is very, very questionable considering Goodes upgrade, picking up Darley and keeping Tutty and Howard. I don't understand it at this stage of the journey.

[Bulldog Joe]

Over the past two years Macca has tried to bring in some youth, but also decided to pick some rejects from other clubs (Including VFL):


Campbell
Darley
Dickson
Fuller
Goodes
Stevens
Young

I haven't included Crameri because he was an established leading goalkicker.

Should we have chosen raw 18 year olds instead of the guys above and developed them ourselves?

Only Darley on that list is a delisted player and he is still very much a youthful age. Stevens and Young were trades and while Young may have been delisted if not traded, Stevens certainly was never going to be delisted.

Campbell although classed as mature age was a good age to pick a player of his size. Dickson, Fuller and Goodes are mature age players and certainly Goodes and Dickson have given value for their selection. Much better than some previous 18 y-o. Obviously we have seen nothing yet of Fuller to know if he will add anything, but it is early days.

[Ozza]

Over the past two years Macca has tried to bring in some youth, but also decided to pick some rejects from other clubs (Including VFL):


Campbell
Darley
Dickson
Fuller
Goodes
Stevens
Young

I haven't included Crameri because he was an established leading goalkicker.

Should we have chosen raw 18 year olds instead of the guys above and developed them ourselves?

Campbell - Developing ruckman take time, he has shown some reasonable signs, and seems the most likely Minson-replacement (long term) on the list. Happy with him.
Darley - Too early to tell. Can't recall what we gave up for him.
Dickson - Took him late in the draft. Is already a regular goal kicker when in the side. Prefer him to a speculative pick of an 18 year old.
Fuller - I guess we don't really know yet. I wasn't even impressed with his highlight reel to be honest. Think we may have erred in judgement taking him quite early when we may have been able to rookie him, or take much later.
Goodes - Happy to have rookie listed him. Has played some good games for us, was a good contributor last year, and keeps pressure on the backs for their spots when we are full strength.
Stevens - happy with getting him in. Is in our best 22. Power runner, who could be an excellent player with some improved game-sense.
Young - really good pick (think it was a 80-odd pick). Gives us flexibility and run out of defence. Think he is a long term player.

[always right]

Over the past two years Macca has tried to bring in some youth, but also decided to pick some rejects from other clubs (Including VFL):


Campbell
Darley
Dickson
Fuller
Goodes
Stevens
Young

I haven't included Crameri because he was an established leading goalkicker.

Should we have chosen raw 18 year olds instead of the guys above and developed them ourselves?

Are you defining them as rejects simply because no other AFL clubs picked them up?

[bornadog]

Are you defining them as rejects simply because no other AFL clubs picked them up?

Ok, rejects sounds harsh, but yes.

[SlimPickens]

I think our list management has been very good since Bmac, Jmac and Dalrymple have all been on board together.

Our hits have far out weighed our misses and even some of those perceived as a miss are yet to show their full wares.

Goodes brought a mature body/head into a defensive half that was seen as young and inexperienced.

Campbell will be our number one ruck after big Will.

Young has been very good since coming to the club.

Dickson bar injury was one of, if not our best performing forward last season.

Stevens is easily best 22, and although some seem to focus entirely on the negative aspect of his game he will play a lot of football for our footy club and be a valuable contributor.

Darley/Fuller too soon to tell.


So to answer your question BAD, no I don't think we wasted draft picks with the players you have listed.

[Twodogs]

How many players apart from those on BAD's list do we have who have played with another club?

Let's examine the list

Goodes. I was happy to get him as a rookie to see what he to offer had but after a promising start he's gone backwards. I don't really understand why we contracted him for two years. One would done and have given us more flexibility to deal with other players.

Fuller. Only seen bits and pieces of him in games and he doesn't really stand out much at training. Can't really offer an opinion.

Young. I see him as a great pick up. Versatile, good skills, loves a challenge, young and cost us very little. A ten year player on the making.

Stevens. Kicking will aways be a little suspect under pressure but works hard on his game and his attitude seems to fit with the ethos of the club. Happy to have him.

Dickson. Other players have gone past him but he will play more senior footy this year but ths year will be his last

Darley. Frustratingly I've only ever seen him at training but I see him as a good small defender. Has determination, skill and a touch of class. Uses the ball well running out of defence and we are short on players who can do that.

Campbell. I think he will be a player. Happy to have him developing on the list.

A couple of the guys named, Young and Darley, while they might have been let go by their original clubs still have a future. I see them not as rejects but as a result of good networking-we have a good relationship with their original clubs and those clubs have been happy to see them given a chance rather than being thrown on the scrap heap.

[Doc26]

On Darley, he is still only slightly built but his disposal by foot looks pretty good to me. In gusty conditions down at Williamstown yesterday he was one of few who was regularly hitting the right target.

[Twodogs]

What foot was Darley using yesterday Doc26? He's not a long kick but he always hits a target.

[Scorlibo]

Tom Campbell was just an 18 year old rookie draft pick - how does he qualify as being second hand or unwanted?

I like the acquisition of Young, Stevens and Darley because they're all still developing, young players yet falling into a better age bracket.

Dickson and Fuller have been mature age picks and whilst Fuller is taking a bit of time to find his feet, Tory has been a very successful pick thus far.

I think we've done well out of most of those guys so far tbh.

[soupman]

Over the past two years Macca has tried to bring in some youth, but also decided to pick some rejects from other clubs (Including VFL):


Campbell
Darley
Dickson
Fuller
Goodes
Stevens
Young

I haven't included Crameri because he was an established leading goalkicker.

Should we have chosen raw 18 year olds instead of the guys above and developed them ourselves?

Geez harsh thread.

For starters Goodes doesn't really suit the question. His spot was not about getting a player in to the club to perform 5 years down the track, but instead to get one that could provide an instant impact and some leadership and experience. That's why it was down to he and Prismall.

The rest have been picked up because they present the same potential as the kids we would have drafted at the low picks they cost us, except they are two-three years more advanced and as a result are straight into the mix instead of requiring multiple years of development in the VFL first.

Young, Stevens and Dickson were all mature and developed enough to play pretty much immediately, and all three have potential to be good players in good sides 5 years on.

Darley would seem to be near the mark, but has copped an injury.

And Fuller is the only questionable one as like a raw kid it seems that his first year will be spent getting him up to the standard required in the VFL.

Campbell is the harshest one. Ruckmen are the one position where I think unless they are a standout player at draft age (Grundy, NicNat, Kreuzer) you should wait until they are at least 20 before picking them up. Good young ruckmen often fail to translate much of their talent from the u18's to senior footy, and I think we are better off making an educated selection of someone like Campbell, than picking up someone who we have to wait 2-5 years for to see if they are capable against real men. I would take Campbell as a rookie over any of the raw ruckmen available in his draft.

Ruckmen are way too risky to pick up at 18 unless they have already proven they can play against men combined with unique athletic abilities. And in the time it has taken to develop Ayce Cordy, a "raw ruckman", we could have used his spot on the list to draft 4 different 20-21 year old ruckmen who had already shown they were capable against men and given each of them 2 years to see if they could make the next step.

[Mofra]

The only guy we've come close to trading heavility for (Crameri) won the goal kicking 3 times in a row for his club - the only other we've traded anything for really is Stevens, who looks like a value pick.

Overall the approach appears sound, but one will always wonder how close we are/were to landing a genuine KPF

[Doc26]

What foot was Darley using yesterday Doc26? He's not a long kick but he always hits a target.

Probably should know but I would be guessing, right ? I agree with you though, he's quite good at spotting up targets even in tricky conditions and can see the attraction.

[GVGjr]

Over the past two years Macca has tried to bring in some youth, but also decided to pick some rejects from other clubs (Including VFL):


Campbell
Darley
Dickson
Fuller
Goodes
Stevens
Young

I haven't included Crameri because he was an established leading goalkicker.

Should we have chosen raw 18 year olds instead of the guys above and developed them ourselves?

It's a good question BAD.

Macca inherited a playing list in serious decline where some players like Mulligan had been on the list for years without giving much back at all. We had a team that had topped up on players like Hall, Welsh and Akermanis because we were contending but these guys had a very limited self life and we couldn't make the hard call on players like Hahn who stayed on a year too long.
We also lost players like Schofield who wanted to return home and took huge risks on players like Skinner and Thorne that never measured up. We also had a number of players that never reached their potential like Hill and Everitt but knocked back offers 12 months earlier only to sign them again and trade them 12 months later for a marginal talent.
We lost Harbrow to a start up club but then squandered the compensation pick on Sherman which was a very poor target and this is not a hindsight response..
We messed up re-signing Ward who would be at his peak with us now.

This doesn't even address the players who we drafted with early picks either.

In short, it created a gap in the playing list that wasn't going rectified by just drafting young players.

We have discussed these points numerous times in the past but the reason why I have raised them now is that I think it helps explain where we are now and why we are taking the approach we have.

Our aim is to develop and recruit young players but given the deteriorating list we had to address some gaps quickly.

Both Dickson and Campbell addressed issues we had. Campbell in particular was seen as a ruckman we needed to develop further and someone who could rotate as a forward. He still has a way to go but I do believe he was a good pick.
I think both players were solid selections that we didn't break the bank for.

Goodes had been setting a high standard at the club and we used a rookie pick for him. His form at the start of last year was terrific.
We will make a call on him later in the year. Hope he makes it

You missed Lower but have a look at the way we got out of that quick smart. Excellent list management execution.

Stevens and Young have been very good selections for us. Just over 12 months in and they have both played better for us than they did with their previous teams and they still have a lot of upside.

Darley and Fuller can't really be judged until closer to the end of the season.

While many people thought the Bombers would screw us with the Crameri trade we stood firm and got a good deal

I think we have the right mix of development via the draft and adding some guys who fill some needs via trades.

We will of course get a few wrong but I can see the logic we are using and I think it's the right way. When we are in a stronger position then we won't need to do trades unless there is a huge upside for the club