Match Committee - Round 6 vs Adelaide

[bornadog]

Respectfully, does 20 minutes of Gia the difference between winning and floggings?

Or even 4 quarters, or a few weeks back 10 minutes? It's nothing really against him as I've never accepted the Gia bashing over the years, it's about where we are and where we are going to. We are going to lose more than we win this year and I don't see him winning games off his own boot enough to prohibit the 'little h brigade' (Hunter, Hrovat, Honeychurch) being played and putting their development in a sharp upwards curve.

Couldn't agree more, I love Gia but it is time. I want Hrovat in there or Hunter and Honeychurch as well. We have enough guys with over 150 games in the team to give us general experience. Gia can give us valuable experience with his coaching on the bench. Doesn't need to be on the field.

[Bulldog Joe]

So Young goes to Pods, Talia to Jenkins, Wood to Lynch? Or does Roberts come in to play on Lynch?

I would send Talia to Pods and play Roberts on Jenkins and probably Young to Lynch. Think Wood needs to play on Dangerfield when he is forward.

[Bulldog Joe]

Couldn't agree more, I love Gia but it is time. I want Hrovat in there or Hunter and Honeychurch as well. We have enough guys with over 150 games in the team to give us general experience. Gia can give us valuable experience with his coaching on the bench. Doesn't need to be on the field.

Have to disagree on this. Happy for your "little H brigade" to get games and maybe rotate through, but feel they will learn and develop better with Gia playing (even as sub). Winning games will also do more for their confidence and development than losing.

Effectively you are looking at only about 5 or 6 games more on average if you leave Gia out.

[Rocco Jones]

Really not a fan of playing as many kids as possible being best for development. Just look at the Dees clearing out their senior players a few years ago.

The right senior players are great for developing young players. I think Gia is one of them.

[GVGjr]

I agree with Rocco, you need a balance. The way some people talk you would think that we don't play any younger guys.

I'm also a little perplexed with some of the commentary over selections and the questions of the development of our younger players.
For many years I have read about how being aligned to a VFL side (Werribee and Williamstown) was wrecking the development of our younger players. Now just a few weeks into a season and having our own VFL side coached by our own coaches with our own game plan apparently the younger players still can't develop properly unless they are in the senior side and that older guys need to make way. Why were we so envious of Collingwood who had their own VFL side many years earlier than us if we are now looking to bypass the development opportunities our own VFL side offers?


I would have thought for the younger guys coming in it was essential to have some seasoned guys around them. Our forward line is fairly young and while Gia won't play every game I'm sure the likes of Bonts, Honeychurch and Hrovat benefit greatly but having Gia up forward given none of them have the tank to spend a lot of time in the midfield.

I want us to win games while still providing opportunities for the younger players to come into a competitive side and develop. Bring in the guys who deserve it but lets not just give them games because there is a perception that they will develop better.

[bornadog]

Really not a fan of playing as many kids as possible being best for development. Just look at the Dees clearing out their senior players a few years ago.

The right senior players are great for developing young players. I think Gia is one of them.

No one is saying do a Melbourne. We had 6 players with over 150 games in the team last week. I think there is plenty of experience, one less will not be a large effect, especially if they sit on the bench for 3 quarters.

[The Underdog]

Really not a fan of playing as many kids as possible being best for development. Just look at the Dees clearing out their senior players a few years ago.

The right senior players are great for developing young players. I think Gia is one of them.

You're right, there has to be a mix. If young players don't have guys to lend an example and guide them, then it just ends up potentially hindering development rather than promoting it. The point of having our own VFL team was to give guys the opportunity to get game time and play in a consistent system with a consistent message no matter which level they are playing at. We need to take advantage of the process we've set up and let the guys develop the way the club feels is right. Sure we can say we don't care about winning games now for the sake of playing young guys, but it's almost panicking in the opposite direction to just throw all of the guys in there together and expect them to survive.
The club also has much better information about players physical and mental limitations from week to week than we do, so we have to trust them to a degree on selections.

[Happy Days]

So Young goes to Pods, Talia to Jenkins, Wood to Lynch? Or does Roberts come in to play on Lynch?

I agree with this. Roberts shouldn't play so these are the logical moves; I don't rate any of these guys so the defence shouldn't be too much of an issue. Young on Pods is particularly good because Pods has mainly looked awful and Young could really give us something going the other way (even through 5 goals I'm a Young mark).

We aren't going to stop Dangerfield (the god) though, so it's all moot. I've been sitting here for 5 minutes trying to think of something insightful to say on it and I just have nothing; too big for Picken, too clever for Jong/Stevens, too quick for pretty much everyone else, Boyd won't do it, so what the !*!* do we do?

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think anyone is saying that we can't develop our guys at Footscray, far from it.

I remember when I umpired in the day and when I got TAC Cup games. The speed of games went so quickly, I thought I was fit and Wiley, but I wasn't. Extrapolating that thought out, the speed between VFL and AFL must be enormous in difference. So the quicker our young uns can get used to pressure, skills under pressure and an understanding of what it takes to do it week in and out is beneficial long term. It's not club or Gia bashing, it's about a philosophy of method, not a certain player or pot at the coaches. I think the 'little h brigade' get more out of subbing or playing than Gia does for us.

[The Underdog]

I don't think anyone is saying that we can't develop our guys at Footscray, far from it.

I remember when I umpired in the day and when I got TAC Cup games. The speed of games went so quickly, I thought I was fit and Wiley, but I wasn't. Extrapolating that thought out, the speed between VFL and AFL must be enormous in difference. So the quicker our young uns can get used to pressure, skills under pressure and an understanding of what it takes to do it week in and out is beneficial long term. It's not club or Gia bashing, it's about a philosophy of method, not a certain player or pot at the coaches. I think the 'little h brigade' get more out of subbing or playing than Gia does for us.

But the thing is, they have had and will get games and opportunities. I think there is also a benefit to them learning systems and structures in a slower paced game before they are given AFL opportunities. Honeychurch is essentially 5 games into a hopefully 10 year career. If he isn't playing regular AFL football for one or two years, he may actually end up a better player because of it. Hunter and Hrovat have had opportunities and really Hrovat has been held back by injury more than anything else. Gia will miss some games during the year and personally I think he has to show that he deserves his spot over Hunter or another kid, but I think that is the case with the kids too. They have to earn their position and then play well enough to keep it.

[Eastdog]

Gee Morris would have been great down back but unfortunately his not playing.

[F'scary]

Based on Macca's presser, and the match preview on the website, I'd say that big Tom and Dickson will both play. I'd be surprised if we make more than 2 changes.

Just FWIW neither Stringer nor Bontempelli are named for Footscray so you would imagine they are both playing AFL.

Based on these useful insights, Stinger and "The Cardinal" Bontempelli stay in, Campbell and Dickson in, therefore 1 out of Jong, Hunter, Honeychurch & Roberts to round things off. I'm tipping Gia to the sub role, Honeychurch (form warrants it) to beat Jong (form isn't there at the moment) for the last spot.

So, Campbell to start in FP. Starting bench, Bontempelli, Stringer, Honeychurch, Gia (sub)

What I would like to see is: Roberts to CHB in for Gia, with Higgins moving to the bench as a midfielder, Stringer to Sub, Young to HBF or swap BP with Wood. But I don't think these are likely on top of other changes outlined above.

[GVGjr]

No one is saying do a Melbourne. We had 6 players with over 150 games in the team last week. I think there is plenty of experience, one less will not be a large effect, especially if they sit on the bench for 3 quarters.

So why is 5x150 game players a better balance than 6 and not 4? Should the number of players that have played over 150 games even be a consideration?

I get that you want to promote the younger guys to the senior side but I don't get why the form of the players isn't necessarily a strong consideration.

[bulldogtragic]

That's the beauty of freedom of thought and speech.

But for me, the argument for keeping Gia seems heavily conflicted by the decision to move Daniel Cross on. Both have been legends of our club, I think both were off field leaders of the highest order. The argument that if the kids earn it, they'll push the veteran out must cut both ways to Gia as well Cross. Cross could have been kept on the senior list very easily with Goodes left on the rookie list, especially after taking Darley and Fuller which required more aforethought than before Cross was tapped on the shoulder.

Simply put, what does Gia add to the playing side, not coaching or mentoring (as its a given how fantastically good he is), just simply on field output that requires him playing over kids that we want to be our future. Gia is a legend of our club and this is not Gia bashing, it's not a pot at the club or anyone, as we could well be talking about Cross in a parallel universe, with Gia playing at Melbourne.

Or more simply put, leaving the name Giansiracusa aside, what does a small veteran forward pocket offer on field for 10-30 minutes and the occasional full game that the 'little h brigade' can not do?

[Templeton31]

I'm really surprised by the outs this week. Was at Canberra game, which was only 2 weeks ago, and Wallis and WIlliams were two of our best. Wallis kept Ward to below 20 posies and Williams shut down GWS big guys Patton and Cameron after at half time it looked like they'd run rampant. Whats more in Maccas presser after the Canberra game he commented how game might have been a big turning point for the two Toms (Young as well) yet two weeks later Williams is dropped? I know Wallis and WIlliams got carved up last week but I would've thought one bad game should not mean dropped - especially with no Morris.