Strange Feeling...

[LostDoggy]

This has been troubling me for quite a few weeks now. In previous years it has been relatively easy to name the best 22-24, through good and bad periods.

However I don’t recall having this uncertain feeling about the best 22 at any other stage. It’s now the realisation that something is actually building on the park with our team. There’s so many differentials to the make up of the best 22 for 2014 & 2015 that I think you’d get 10 different answers from 10 different people.

Last weeks team (Vs. GC), just to use as a starting example – potential additions/those that missed in brackets(), some in dual positions

B: Picken, Roughead, Austin
HB: Murphy, Morris, Wood
C: Darley, Boyd, Wallis
HF: Stringer, Crameri, Macrae
F: Dalhaus, Redpath, Hrovat
Foll: Minson, Stevens, Liberatore
Int: Bontempelli, Hunter, Johannisen, Honeychurch

B: ( Roberts, Young, Talia, Fuller )
HB: ( Higgins, Tutt, Young, Talia, Roberts, Fuller )
C: ( Cooney, Griffen, Prudden )
HF: ( Grant, Higgins, Tutt, Cooney, Jones, Dickson )
F: ( Smith, Cooney, Jones, Hrovat, Stevens, Dickson, Campbell, Cordy )
Foll: ( Smith, Campbell, Cordy )


Left out those that I don’t believe will be on the list post 2014. As you can see, most people will probably have 3 or 4 different players from the next person (not 1 or 2). Only Prudden and Fuller haven’t had exposure at AFL level, but i think most are prepared to give them at least another year. Aside from that all the players listed have shown that they’re up to the task at various points in time. The variability comes from their general age and experience currently.

[LostDoggy]

Great post.

I've certaintly felt the same thing recently.

Just thinking about the ins and outs for the Bombers match I got to Clay Smith and thought yep, certaintly coming in this week. But then I actually couldn't find anyone to replace him with... Stevens was really the only one who was a very solid contributer on the weekend.

[LostDoggy]

Great post.

I've certaintly felt the same thing recently.

Just thinking about the ins and outs for the Bombers match I got to Clay Smith and thought yep, certaintly coming in this week. But then I actually couldn't find anyone to replace him with... Stevens was really the only one who was a very solid contributer on the weekend.

Likewise. His aggression he imparts (controlled, not smart-arse aggression) is something that a young developing side like ours needs, especially when things aren't going to plan. Where he plays? Anywhere from centre circle to deep forward pocket in the long run. I see Stevens as a roaming/floating forward in the future, but he was far from disgraced last weekend.

[Ozza]

We are a very very even list at the moment. In years to come, you would logically assume that some of the 'high end talent' like Macrae, Stringer & Bontempelli will start to join Griffen & Libba as our elite players (Macrae could be sooner rather than later). But right now we have a lot of positions up for grabs. Certainly key forward and key defensive - there is at least one at each end that is genuinely anyone's from a list of Talia, Roberts, Redpath, Jones, Cordy.

We bat pretty deep for mids/smalls already.

[Cyberdoggie]

There certainly is some depth there, that is pretty evident by the results of the Footscray side this year.

Experience and physical conditioning (fitness, size etc) are still what is separating us from the top 8.
When our younger players all have 50 games and a few pre-seasons behind them they will be something to see.

We do still need to fill some gaps though.

Contested marking is a problem. I think a strong key forward would help and also allow guys like stringer, jones and crameri to function better in their own right if they aren't the main focus.
We do need that go to man when things are bogged down and we need to kick to a pack. Currently we just kick it to Minson and hope he can spoil it for a throw in in these situations. Someone who can be a threat can open the ground for counter attacks and bring others into the game more often.

Some speed in the middle would be nice. Griffen and Cooney are all we have and they aren't at the top of their games at the moment. Tutt probably isn't ever going to dominate. Not much depth here.

We saw a glimpse of the future post Murphy with JJ, Darley stepping up on the weekend.
Who missed Higgins and his slow pace? JJ was at his best and opened the game up beautifully for us on many occasions.
Darley's skills were evident, made one blunder when he should of just taken the game on to draw the player. He'll learn but he seems to be a player in the Murphy mould.
I still would like some more line breaking speed across half back.

Key defenders post Morris is the other main concern.
Roughead is clearly our best tall. Fletcher and Talia still have a way to go to develop their bodies and learn their craft, I think there is room for a classy tall defender if available.

[jeemak]

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say above Cyberdoggie.

We need to be on the look out for some more depth at our bookends in terms of talent that can play tall and strong. I don't like our prospects of lading absolutely elite KPP talent through trading just yet, we haven't ever been able to so in the past and I know this regime is a very much build from the inside conservative one. I think this year we will draft for another key defender and attempt to develop our forwards for one more year.

Jack Redpath needs to develop his body. Whilst he's a big guy he still looks physically under developed, particularly in the lower half. He'll be an absolute monster once he matures though, and it will be great if he can turn into a player who can use his size and strength eventually.

We still lack pace. While I think there's a spot for Higgins forward and through the middle, I'm not entirely sure the half back line is for him even if I think he's actually had some good games there this year. We need to insert some pace on to the list to offset the lack of place players like Shaun.

Whether we look to add another ruck to the list this year or next is up for debate. I don't want us to wait too long and would see if there's a potential rookie candidate to work with over a few years as a minimum.

One of the major issues I had with the Eade era was that every time we were calling out for an average performer to be sent back to Williamstown we were always faced with the situation of having insufficient numbers in the twos really banging down the door of the ones and putting on some selection pressure. While Eade seemed averse to making a lot of changes, I don't just think that came down to preferences through favouritism.

I don't think we'll get that issue with this group.

[FrediKanoute]

Watching the game against Gold Coast it struck me that we just have to move heaven and earth to get a key forward. We can't allow our developing midfielders to get to the same point Cooney, Griffin, West, Boyd etc got to without someone to kick it to. We have a wonderful group of talented midfielders. We have to target a Patton (or equivalent) and just get him. Yes it will cost us, but honestly if we get the right guy it will be worth it.

[wimberga]

Watching the game against Gold Coast it struck me that we just have to move heaven and earth to get a key forward. We can't allow our developing midfielders to get to the same point Cooney, Griffin, West, Boyd etc got to without someone to kick it to. We have a wonderful group of talented midfielders. We have to target a Patton (or equivalent) and just get him. Yes it will cost us, but honestly if we get the right guy it will be worth it.

Agree Freddie - do you think we could convince Patton/Boyd/Sam Day to want to come to the dogs? and could we convince GWS/GC to accept a deal like Pick 5 + Dahlhaus to get it done?

[LostDoggy]

I honestly don't feel like we can afford to lose Dahlhaus.. Even with how good he's been and the acolades he's recieved from some here this year, i still feel he's being underrated by most in what he bring to us. He is an absolute workhorse and if not for some poor finishing in front of the sticks he would be pushing Bruest for AA selection.

Clay Smith would be someone I think we can afford to lose.

[always right]

Pick 5 plus Dahlhaus...wow, that would really hurt. Not sure Sam Day is worth that sort of sacrifice either. You would want Patton as a minimum and there are even doubts as to whether he would be the answer.

Clay Smith is a more palatable option than Dahl and I understand you have to give up something good to make a big play like this but not sure other clubs necessarily see the value of Clay like we do yet...simply because he hasn't been on the park enough.

[FrediKanoute]

Dahlhaus is a non-tradeable. I don't think Smith would get the job done. Its tough, but Dahlhaus for me is untouchable. Small hardworking forwards are gold and we haven't had one since Bamblett.

[josie]

Dalhaus is very, very popular with our young supporters too and I think it would be too devastating to let him go. I think Clay Smith is an absolute ripper too & I would be very sad to see him go. Got to give something to get something but geez to give up one of these two will hurt. Do you think they would be interested in Higgins+pick 5 (as has been suggested by BullDogsTragic in another post)?

[wimberga]

I don't think that any player is non-tradeable.

I agree that I would love to keep Dalhaus but I am aware that of all our players, he would demand the highest price (bar perhaps Roughy or Libba, both of which I would keep ahead of Dahlhaus). Additionally, we have a list brimming with smalls across Hrovat, Honeychurch and Hunter. If we are chasing quality, we need to offer quality. I think back to when Geelong needed a ruckman, and basically had to get rid of one of their youngs guns (Bartel, Maloney or Kelly) to nab Ottens.

Pick 5 + Dahlhaus to me is the most I would be prepared to offer, but also the trade most likely to command something of absolute quality. But I do stress that I love dahlhaus and if we were to do this trade, I would want us to get absolute quality. Anything less and we will keep him.

As others have alluded to, I don't think think teams would see the attraction to get rid of a KPF for a pick + Smith, just doesn't have the runs on the board yet.

[Scorlibo]

Pick 5 for one of those guys, sure - fair price. Dahlhaus, sure - fair price. Both? That's madness. Lukey has 10 years of being a top-line player in front of him. The players we're talking about are themselves simply top draft picks. Would anyone give up Dahlhaus to upgrade from pick 5 to pick 2? I doubt it.

It all depends on the manner of the player leaving. If Cameron/Patton/Boyd are put on the trade table by GWS and they say, 'highest offer gets him' then we will have to pay overs. However, if we manage to get one of those guys to nominate to come to the Bulldogs with a big carrot then we hold all the cards and pick 5 will be enough. Just like with Crameri.

[jeemak]

At this stage I see Macrae as a fair swap for Patton, Bontempelli not far behind Macrae in terms of value. Along with Libba, those two are our most valuable players right now.

Dahlhaus for mine is a rung below, only because of his lack of set shot class.

I don't think a top five pick plus any of those players is reasonable, though that's not to say it's not what it would take to get the deal done.

This is why it's problematic trading for key forwards of any note, you always get ripped off. There's a good reason why the only clubs that have them were lucky enough for the most part for them to fall into their laps, or have ridiculous spending money beyond the means of other clubs.