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  1. #1
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    2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Just thought I would give our list a quick review before the draft. We really only have one A Grade player in Liberatore.

    Veterans
    Murphy, Morris, M.Boyd, Minson and Picken (5 Players)

    Leaders (Players that are likely walk up selections)
    Liberatore, Wallis, Wood, Dahlhaus, Crameri, Roughead and Stevens (7 Players)

    Emerging
    Johannisen, Stringer, Macrae, Hunter, Bontempelli, T.Boyd and Hrovat (7 Players)

    Just off the pace
    Grant, Dickson, Smith (Injured) Talia, Roberts, Honeychurch Redpath, Jong, Darley, Campbell and A.Cordy (11 Players)

    Unknown Value
    Biggs, Prudden, Hamling, Fuller, Pearce and Z.Cordy (6 Players)

    In rough terms players are allocated into 3 groups knowing that many players will alternate between various roles.

    Midfielders
    Liberatore, Wallis, M.Boyd, Picken, Macrae, Stevens, Hrovat, Minson, Campbell, Jong, Prudden (11)

    Forwards
    T.Boyd, Stringer, Crameri, Bontempelli, Grant, Redpath, Hunter, Dahlhaus, Honeychurch, Smith, Dickson. A.Cordy (12)

    Defenders
    Morris, Roughead, Morris, Wood, Johannisen, Talia, Roberts, Pearce, Hamling, Biggs, Fuller, Z.Cordy, Darley (13)

    Summary
    This basic review highlights to me that even allowing that many players will rotate through the midfield it still needs to be the primary focus of the upcoming draft. We almost need to come away with at least one 'ready to go player' just to give us some additional depth.

    Our list is also very inexperienced with the additions of Boyd, Biggs and Hamling that haven't come close to covering the loss of experience from the Griffen, Cooney, Jones and Tutt through departures via trades/delistments. I have hopes that Biggs can add some value for us next season, Boyd will play his part but we can't expect too much and Hamling is more of a 2016 option than 2015.

    Given the players we have moved and lost to other teams we must make the most of all the draft picks inside of pick 50 that are available to us. Using one of them for a rookie list upgrade is a luxury and a sentiment that I don't think we can afford.
    If we need to move someone to the rookie list to maximise the draft picks then we need to do that. This draft will still have a bit to offer inside of pick 50.

    As a comparison
    Our approach since the end of the season is vastly different to Carlton which finished just one position better than us. While they have a few more A Graders, they have topped up on a number of players and maintained draft picks in the first 2 rounds. It will be interesting to see what value, Jones, Tutt, Whiley, Jacksch and Dick can provide them next season.
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  3. #2
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Thanks G, good round up. I hope Wallis & Stevens turn into walk up starts, but they need to lift a cog or two. Maybe the big names leaving is the positive pressure they need to be leaders.

    I can't agree strongly enough on using every single live pick from 3 rounds. I've said on another thread I'd more Pearce on, if the coach wants him as a rookie that's fine, but I don't see clubs lining up to take him. We need those 5 picks, 2 upgrades, then 6 rookies. Foster, Greenwood/Pearce, Ruck, Defender, 2 x mids/runners.

    I think I'd be content in that scenario that we've made the best of a bad situation that was our spot 3 weeks ago.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  4. #3
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    I hope Wallis & Stevens turn into walk up starts, but they need to lift a cog or two. Maybe the big names leaving is the positive pressure they need to be leaders.
    I think given our current playing list they will be given a lot of latitude to be senior footballers and leaders next season. We simply won't have the depth of players to drop them as quickly as we did last season.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    I can't agree strongly enough on using every single live pick from 3 rounds. I've said on another thread I'd more Pearce on, if the coach wants him as a rookie that's fine, but I don't see clubs lining up to take him. We need those 5 picks, 2 upgrades, then 6 rookies. Foster, Greenwood/Pearce, Ruck, Defender, 2 x mids/runners.
    I've considered that we might even need to go for a state league type player that could potentially play some senior football for us with either pick 45 or 46. We can't use picks like that for rookie upgrades.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I think given our current playing list they will be given a lot of latitude to be senior footballers and leaders next season. We simply won't have the depth of players to drop them as quickly as we did last season.



    I've considered that we might even need to go for a state league type player that could potentially play some senior football for us with either pick 45 or 46. We can't use picks like that for rookie upgrades.
    It would be insane to keep Pearce over pick 46, that we haven't done it already is a tad concerning. What position do you consider a state leaguer for?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  6. #5
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    It would be insane to keep Pearce over pick 46, that we haven't done it already is a tad concerning. What position do you consider a state leaguer for?
    Maybe we need to use one of the late picks for a midfielder with a bit of state league experience.
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  7. #6
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Maybe we need to use one of the late picks for a midfielder with a bit of state league experience.
    Who'd you like?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  8. #7
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    It would be insane to keep Pearce over pick 46, that we haven't done it already is a tad concerning. What position do you consider a state leaguer for?
    Agreed.

    Although our hand has been somewhat forced, list management to date has been fantastic for the first time in a long time. However, Pearce (for mine) has been the most obvious delist candidate outside of Howard. I'd be disappointed if we rookied him, let alone kept him on the main list. I'd rather re-rookie Greenwood and it's no secret I am not really a fan of his either.

    Also agree with GVG a state league mid would be nice, but I wouldn't pick one for the sake of it if a quality one isn't standing out, as I am confident we can net some good kids with our selections.
    W00F!

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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Good summary, and agree with the position we should be utilising all of pre-50 picks in the upcoming draft on new players.

    Whilst we only have one A grade player at the moment in Liberatore, the good news is that I think we have the potential to add to that mix this year.

    Macrae and Stringer can both become A grade players, with Macrae just a little bit of consistency and strength away, and Stringer probably a bit of fitness and ability to transition into more midfield time.

    I'm also pretty optimistic about the talent Hrovat and Hunter have, and see them both as potential A graders, whilst Dahlhaus has some work to do on his finishing skills, he also has a lot of qualities that could see him make the grade. Whilst all 3 will play forward at times, I can see them all developing their midfield craft and ultimately spending a significant amount of time on ball next season.

    Bontempelli is probably another year off, but he has shown he will be an A grader too.

    Whilst the above players continue to find their feet, I think we need to have some faith the likes of Wallis, Stevens, Smith (when fit), Wood and Jong can provide the backbone of the midfield/running brigade. These players probably won't ever be A graders, but they are all strong, big bodied players who will be able to play very meaningful roles in 2015 and beyond. They should be able to physically impose themselves on the contest/body and run out the year strongly.

    All of that being said, I agree we need to look to add more running players this year, and as you have mentioned in another thread, there is some merit in going for a player like Gore, and perhaps a state league player, who can add immediately to our mix.

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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    GVGjr, I think Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli, T Boyd & Hrovat should be in the Leader group as you define it as they, barring injuries, will be walk up starts for 22 games in 2015 and deservedly so. Same for Clay Smith (injured).

    In Emerging, which I take it to mean players who should go the next step, force their way into the seniors and become regulars, I would add Grant (seems strange but he is still establishing himself after 50+ games). Therefore, I would only class 3 players as emerging and this is worrying.

    Which leaves a problematically large group in the "just off the pace" category. "Just" is probably a generous category for some of the names there. It is tempting break it into 2 categories: "Just" (should show AFL level form at some stage in 2015) and "Substantially off the pace" (not likely to put much pressure on for a senior berth). I would put Fuller, Pearce, Redpath, Darley and A Cordy in the substantially off the pace category.
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by F'scary View Post
    GVGjr, I think Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli, T Boyd & Hrovat should be in the Leader group as you define it as they, barring injuries, will be walk up starts for 22 games in 2015 and deservedly so. Same for Clay Smith (injured).
    Thanks for the response.

    I don't believe we can start the season with players entering their 2nd and 3rd seasons being regarded as leaders. It would be misleading. These are all impressive guys but maybe mid way through the season they might have earned themselves a better rating but at the moment I'm comfortable with the rating I've given. In my opinion Smith being injured and he will miss a large chunk of the season means he can't be rated any higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by F'scary View Post
    In Emerging, which I take it to mean players who should go the next step, force their way into the seniors and become regulars, I would add Grant (seems strange but he is still establishing himself after 50+ games). Therefore, I would only class 3 players as emerging and this is worrying.
    I can't find a spot for him in our best forward line. He would get there if there are injuries which is why he is just off the pace.
    I'd have a forward line of
    Dahlhaus - Crameri - Bontempelli
    Stringer - Boyd - Hunter

    Which leaves Grant out of the mix. We need Dahlhaus, Bontempelli and Hunter pushing into midfield roles and Stringer taking a turns as well. Grant just does not offer us enough versatility.

    Quote Originally Posted by F'scary View Post

    Which leaves a problematically large group in the "just off the pace" category. "Just" is probably a generous category for some of the names there. It is tempting break it into 2 categories: "Just" (should show AFL level form at some stage in 2015) and "Substantially off the pace" (not likely to put much pressure on for a senior berth). I would put Fuller, Pearce, Redpath, Darley and A Cordy in the substantially off the pace category.
    I think the break-ups reflect where we are with the playing list. At the very least I think it assists working out where our gaps are.
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  13. #11
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Who'd you like?
    Blaine Boekhorst or Haiden Schloaithe might be worth some considerations.
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  14. #12
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Nice on GVG,

    It highlights why its essential we take 5 kids plus Cordy in the draft (6 total).

    I actually have some belief in Pearces ability, but he should be rookied if that is holding us back in terms of a spot.

    I'd hope Dahl and others would be close to A graders at the end of the season.

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  16. #13
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Maybe we need to use one of the late picks for a midfielder with a bit of state league experience.
    Perhaps we should save those for the rookie list?

    I totally agree that we can't use our 40's picks on rookie upgrades, that would be a wasted opportunity as there will be quality players at that level.

    If we had no intent of using them then we should of traded those picks to improve our position.


    There is a lack of bigger bodies in the engine room and I'm not sold on Wallis being a walk up start.
    We certainly lack pace and outside run as well, not sure we would be able to address that with our picks.
    Will be very interesting who we pick.

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  18. #14
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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Who'd you like?
    Could we do worse than Caleb Daniel? There is no doubt he knows how to play footy and he ran a 16.1 beep so he has the endurance already.

    yes at 1.67 he is 2 inches shorter than Harvey, but lets face it, at that size you are an outside mid in the AFL. He is quick over short and long distances and can run all day.

    Do we need a player like Harvey? yes we do.

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    Re: 2014 /15 - List Review Analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by stefoid View Post
    Could we do worse than Caleb Daniel? There is no doubt he knows how to play footy and he ran a 16.1 beep so he has the endurance already.

    yes at 1.67 he is 2 inches shorter than Harvey, but lets face it, at that size you are an outside mid in the AFL. He is quick over short and long distances and can run all day.

    Do we need a player like Harvey? yes we do.
    Spot on STEFOID. He is a gun and just a natural footballer!!!! We lack his type. He is under sized height wise but a bit of a tank already. If he is still around at 25 or 26 I'd be rapt with his selection

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