After huge trade, why are Bulldog Tom Boyd and Giant Ryan Griffen disappointing at their new homes?

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-...-1227391406822


IT was the blockbuster trade that made enemies in two states, and looked like it could tear the Western Bulldogs into pieces.

Dogs skipper Ryan Griffen shocked the footy world by requesting a trade to the GWS Giants after the 2014 season. The captain, of all players, wanted out.

And to get it done, the Giants gave up their prized #1 draft pick from 2013, and star forward of the future, Tom Boyd.

The trade, which also saw the Dogs give up pick 6 in the 2014 AFL draft, was a stunner. It was a battle between philosophies — belief in the future, with the player every analyst said was a sure-fire gun down the road, and living in the present, as a young side looked for veteran leadership and All-Australian pedigree.

So ten games into the 2015 season, with GWS flying high at 7-3 and the Bulldogs stalling somewhat after a brilliant 4-1 start, their strong starts would obviously be thanks to this massive deal, right?

Well, that’s where it gets interesting. Put aside Caleb Marchbank, who the Giants picked at #6 in the draft. He’s playing well in the NEAFL but can’t get a senior game in a talented side. Boyd and Griffen were the headliners — and now, the headlines all say they’re disappointments.

Griffen’s numbers dropped in 2014 as he managed a back injury, but they’ve fallen even further at GWS.


Meanwhile, Boyd hasn’t exactly lit the the world on fire for the Bulldogs either. He’s been subbed out twice in the last three weeks, both times after a half of footy where he couldn’t get near the ball.

He’s kicked 11 goals in 10 games, but that has him a distant third on the Dogs goalkicking table, behind Jake Stringer and Tory Dickson.

So what’s wrong with Griffen and Boyd? Or in fact, is there nothing wrong?

GRIFFEN’S DOG DAYS

Eagle-eyed observers — and SuperCoaches — will be well aware of Ryan Griffen’s fall in form.

Drops in nearly every key stat in 2014 have followed Griffen in his trade up north, with his numbers now at lows not seen since 2007.

But statistics from Champion Data reveal the reason for the fall in some of Griffen’s numbers.

Griffen is spending 25% less time in the midfield compared to his time at the Western Bulldogs. In 2014, the Bulldogs rarely rotated their key midfielders into the forward line — most notably Tom Liberatore, who spent almost 95% of the game in the midfield with less than 4% up forward.

Brendan McCartney had Griffen in the midfield 80% of the time, behind just Liberatore, Will Minson & Mitch Wallis for time spent there. This saw him get plenty of disposals and clearances, although less than he had in 2013, when he wasn’t hindered by his back.

Managing that injury, Griffen still averaged 23 disposals a game in 2014, with five clearances.

But the Giants are far more active in their midfield-to-forward-line rotations. Former number one pick Lachie Whitfield is the only midfielder at GWS that spends less than 20% of his time in the forward line.

With so many midfield options, Leon Cameron has ended up with Griffen in the midfield for just 62.6% of the game, compared to 32.7% of his time being in the forward line.

And this drop in time spent on-ball is reflected in Griffen’s numbers, as he has averaged 19 disposals and four clearances per game in 2015.

The issue for Griffen then becomes his impact up forward, about which there are questions.

At his best for the Bulldogs, Griffen averaged over a goal per game, which dropped to 0.7 and then 0.5 in his final two years at the Kennel. His goal assists fell at a similar rate.

But with Griffen spending more time up forward in 2015, for the move to really pay off, he would need to be surpassing those numbers this season.

And he is, sort of. His goals have actually fallen, to 0.4 per game — but with such a small sample size, even a couple of majors this weekend could change that.

Match that with his score assists, which have risen from an average of 1.0 per game in 2014 to 1.6, and he’s clearly having a bigger impact than he was.

But you’re always going to have higher scoring numbers in a winning side, and Griffen has already played in two more wins this season than he did in all of 2014.

So we’re sure Griffen would gladly take the trade of his own stats for wins, but what’s not sure is if he can successfully have them both.

BIG BOYD — BUT NO WOW-EE

Boyd entered the 2013 draft pool widely regarded as the best pure talent.

A hulking forward compared to Tom Hawkins and said to be a more complete full-forward prospect than fellow Giants #1 pick Jonathan Patton, huge expectations inevitably followed.

Boyd was surely also hurt by his unprecedented contract for such a young player, as he entered the Kennel earning an average of $1 million per season over seven years.

But in a world that wants things to come faster and faster, when Boyd didn’t immediately start dominating the competition, the questions started coming.

With that in mind, there are a few things to consider with Boyd.

The cliches are true — big men take longer to develop than midfielders. We’ve been spoiled by players like Chris Judd, who came into the AFL and immediately declared himself as a star of the comp, and even more recent examples like Sydney’s Isaac Heeney, who slotted right into a side that made the Grand Final last year.

During the 2013 draft build-up, Eastern Ranges regional manager Anthony Parkin said that Boyd would be part of one of the most devastating forward lines in the competition at GWS — but by 2016.

While obviously the first part of that is a bit more out of the question, the second is incredibly crucial. The time frame is different for Boyd — and a look at some big name key forwards and their starts to their careers tells that story.

Jarryd Roughead kicked seven goals in his first 19 games. Josh Kennedy kicked nine in his first 19. Nick Riewoldt? 12. Travis Cloke? 13. Matthew Pavlich? 16. Barry Hall? 16.

Tom Boyd has 19 goals from his first 19 games. That’s equal with a certain Lance Franklin, and six behind the man he was compared to in the draft process, Tom Hawkins.

So the production is what you’d expect, and in fact slightly better than many star forwards of the last decade.

No, he’s not dominating games. But he’s not supposed to be doing that yet.

SO WHO WINS THE TRADE?

Well, no-one does, because we’re 10 games into it.

If the Giants make the finals with Griffen continuing his solid but not starring form, you can be sure that both he and GWS would still take that deal.

Similarly, the Bulldogs have been terrific at times this year without Boyd having reached his incredibly high potential yet.

It’s not often that teams, in any sport, make a deal that is simply what some would call a ‘challenge trade’ — a like for like deal where both teams have the same short-term goal.

This trade wasn’t one of those anyway. They’re two young sides, but the Bulldogs were investing in the future with the move, while the Giants are building for the now.

And then you look at what the players are doing — Griffen is perhaps slightly below expectations, but he and Boyd are otherwise doing about what’s right for their roles & levels of ability.

It’s a waiting game, but one that both GWS and the Bulldogs are winning for the moment anyway.

[Twodogs]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-...-1227391406822


IT was the blockbuster trade that made enemies in two states, and looked like it could tear the Western Bulldogs into pieces.

Dogs skipper Ryan Griffen shocked the footy world by requesting a trade to the GWS Giants after the 2014 season. The captain, of all players, wanted out.

And to get it done, the Giants gave up their prized #1 draft pick from 2013, and star forward of the future, Tom Boyd.

The trade, which also saw the Dogs give up pick 6 in the 2014 AFL draft, was a stunner. It was a battle between philosophies — belief in the future, with the player every analyst said was a sure-fire gun down the road, and living in the present, as a young side looked for veteran leadership and All-Australian pedigree.

So ten games into the 2015 season, with GWS flying high at 7-3 and the Bulldogs stalling somewhat after a brilliant 4-1 start, their strong starts would obviously be thanks to this massive deal, right?

Well, that’s where it gets interesting. Put aside Caleb Marchbank, who the Giants picked at #6 in the draft. He’s playing well in the NEAFL but can’t get a senior game in a talented side. Boyd and Griffen were the headliners — and now, the headlines all say they’re disappointments.

Griffen’s numbers dropped in 2014 as he managed a back injury, but they’ve fallen even further at GWS.


Meanwhile, Boyd hasn’t exactly lit the the world on fire for the Bulldogs either. He’s been subbed out twice in the last three weeks, both times after a half of footy where he couldn’t get near the ball.

He’s kicked 11 goals in 10 games, but that has him a distant third on the Dogs goalkicking table, behind Jake Stringer and Tory Dickson.

So what’s wrong with Griffen and Boyd? Or in fact, is there nothing wrong?

GRIFFEN’S DOG DAYS

Eagle-eyed observers — and SuperCoaches — will be well aware of Ryan Griffen’s fall in form.

Drops in nearly every key stat in 2014 have followed Griffen in his trade up north, with his numbers now at lows not seen since 2007.

But statistics from Champion Data reveal the reason for the fall in some of Griffen’s numbers.

Griffen is spending 25% less time in the midfield compared to his time at the Western Bulldogs. In 2014, the Bulldogs rarely rotated their key midfielders into the forward line — most notably Tom Liberatore, who spent almost 95% of the game in the midfield with less than 4% up forward.

Brendan McCartney had Griffen in the midfield 80% of the time, behind just Liberatore, Will Minson & Mitch Wallis for time spent there. This saw him get plenty of disposals and clearances, although less than he had in 2013, when he wasn’t hindered by his back.

Managing that injury, Griffen still averaged 23 disposals a game in 2014, with five clearances.

But the Giants are far more active in their midfield-to-forward-line rotations. Former number one pick Lachie Whitfield is the only midfielder at GWS that spends less than 20% of his time in the forward line.

With so many midfield options, Leon Cameron has ended up with Griffen in the midfield for just 62.6% of the game, compared to 32.7% of his time being in the forward line.

And this drop in time spent on-ball is reflected in Griffen’s numbers, as he has averaged 19 disposals and four clearances per game in 2015.

The issue for Griffen then becomes his impact up forward, about which there are questions.

At his best for the Bulldogs, Griffen averaged over a goal per game, which dropped to 0.7 and then 0.5 in his final two years at the Kennel. His goal assists fell at a similar rate.

But with Griffen spending more time up forward in 2015, for the move to really pay off, he would need to be surpassing those numbers this season.

And he is, sort of. His goals have actually fallen, to 0.4 per game — but with such a small sample size, even a couple of majors this weekend could change that.

Match that with his score assists, which have risen from an average of 1.0 per game in 2014 to 1.6, and he’s clearly having a bigger impact than he was.

But you’re always going to have higher scoring numbers in a winning side, and Griffen has already played in two more wins this season than he did in all of 2014.

So we’re sure Griffen would gladly take the trade of his own stats for wins, but what’s not sure is if he can successfully have them both.

BIG BOYD — BUT NO WOW-EE

Boyd entered the 2013 draft pool widely regarded as the best pure talent.

A hulking forward compared to Tom Hawkins and said to be a more complete full-forward prospect than fellow Giants #1 pick Jonathan Patton, huge expectations inevitably followed.

Boyd was surely also hurt by his unprecedented contract for such a young player, as he entered the Kennel earning an average of $1 million per season over seven years.

But in a world that wants things to come faster and faster, when Boyd didn’t immediately start dominating the competition, the questions started coming.

With that in mind, there are a few things to consider with Boyd.

The cliches are true — big men take longer to develop than midfielders. We’ve been spoiled by players like Chris Judd, who came into the AFL and immediately declared himself as a star of the comp, and even more recent examples like Sydney’s Isaac Heeney, who slotted right into a side that made the Grand Final last year.

During the 2013 draft build-up, Eastern Ranges regional manager Anthony Parkin said that Boyd would be part of one of the most devastating forward lines in the competition at GWS — but by 2016.

While obviously the first part of that is a bit more out of the question, the second is incredibly crucial. The time frame is different for Boyd — and a look at some big name key forwards and their starts to their careers tells that story.

Jarryd Roughead kicked seven goals in his first 19 games. Josh Kennedy kicked nine in his first 19. Nick Riewoldt? 12. Travis Cloke? 13. Matthew Pavlich? 16. Barry Hall? 16.

Tom Boyd has 19 goals from his first 19 games. That’s equal with a certain Lance Franklin, and six behind the man he was compared to in the draft process, Tom Hawkins.

So the production is what you’d expect, and in fact slightly better than many star forwards of the last decade.

No, he’s not dominating games. But he’s not supposed to be doing that yet.

SO WHO WINS THE TRADE?

Well, no-one does, because we’re 10 games into it.

If the Giants make the finals with Griffen continuing his solid but not starring form, you can be sure that both he and GWS would still take that deal.

Similarly, the Bulldogs have been terrific at times this year without Boyd having reached his incredibly high potential yet.

It’s not often that teams, in any sport, make a deal that is simply what some would call a ‘challenge trade’ — a like for like deal where both teams have the same short-term goal.

This trade wasn’t one of those anyway. They’re two young sides, but the Bulldogs were investing in the future with the move, while the Giants are building for the now.

And then you look at what the players are doing — Griffen is perhaps slightly below expectations, but he and Boyd are otherwise doing about what’s right for their roles & levels of ability.

It’s a waiting game, but one that both GWS and the Bulldogs are winning for the moment anyway.

The last sentence is outstanding.

[SlimPickens]

Read this yesterday. Found it to be the biggest "nothing" fluff piece. We have Tom for 7 years they have Ryan for 4. How about we compare later on hey.

Pretty happy with how Tom is tracking and I know internally that is the general feeling. Couldn't imagine the Giants would be feeling the same.

[Mofra]

"Jarryd Roughead kicked seven goals in his first 19 games. Josh Kennedy kicked nine in his first 19. Nick Riewoldt? 12. Travis Cloke? 13. Matthew Pavlich? 16. Barry Hall? 16.

Tom Boyd has 19 goals from his first 19 games. That’s equal with a certain Lance Franklin, and six behind the man he was compared to in the draft process, Tom Hawkins."

I would say that puts him well ahead of the bell curve.
The only player ahead of him - Tomahawk - started playing in one of the most dominant sides in recent history, with tall support (Mooney), getting excellent supply.

His progress is surely at least meeting expectations isn't it?

[GVGjr]

I'm in no way disappointed in Tom Boyd. Looking forward to seeing how he developes over the next few years.

[G-Mo77]

I'm in no way disappointed in Tom Boyd. Looking forward to seeing how he developes over the next few years.

Same. Although I think a stint in the VFL would not hurt Tom at all. He's still a kid and has a ton of pressure on his shoulders every game if he's struggling which he has a few times, then give him a spell. I'd rather that than red vest him half way through a game.

[KT31]

I was gutted at the time but when we picked up Tommy I thought then and still do now that we were onto a real winner.
Tommy is tracking very nicely and I still have no doubt he is going to be a champion for us.
Seriously if GWS ( or any one of the teams for that matter) sat down on draft day and had to make the choice between the two right now, I would be surprised if anyone would even consider Griff.

[Webby]

Answer to question:

Because Ryan Griffen has a chronic back issue and his best footy is behind him, and;

Tom Boyd is 19 years of age and will not be playing his best footy for another 4-5 years...

Dah! (Effing journalists!)

[GVGjr]

If he needs a brief spell in the VFL then let's give that to him but my preference is to play him as much as we can.

[Twodogs]

Yep. I don't like seeing Tom in the sub's vest. It looks like an absence of planning/foresight. If we pick him then leave him on the ground, especially as his height becomes an advantage as the game wears on.

I'd prefer he played the whole game in the reserves.

[Ghost Dog]

The thing I like about Tom is he is smart. Little taps to advantage, little blocks - he's got a great footy brain and that's very hard to teach. Who writes this pap?

eg: Boyd was surely also hurt by his unprecedented contract for such a young player, as he entered the Kennel earning an average of $1 million per season over seven years.

Hurt? He will command it, we all know it, and I think he is tracking really well. Go Tom!

[Remi Moses]

Just more noise in a saturated market .
Anyone with a semblance of grey matter knows this trade will be called after a few years.
Yawnnnnnnn!
BTW Griffen's been disappointing, not solid

[1eyedog]

How about some of his pack marks out on the members side thank you very much!
Boyd oh Boyd!

He's had me out of my seat a few times.

[Flamethrower]

This pathetic article was written by "world famous" Max Laughton......who????? What a joke.

Tom Boyd has provided the tall forward target the Bulldogs have been missing for years. His ability to contest and the value he adds to our structure means that any stats that Tom provides is a bonus. He is a huge reason why we are 5 and 5, and not 0 and 10 as most expected.

A clear win for the Western Bulldogs.

The other player has been a flop, with only one decent game out of 10, he is the reason his team is only 7 and 3, and not 10 and 0 or 9 and 1. He looks totally disinterested in football, and surely it is only a matter of time before he gives it away and spends his days pig shooting.

Also a clear win for the Western Bulldogs.

So the trade has been a win - win, both to the Doggies (16.17.113 to 11.2.68 to be exact).

[Twodogs]

This pathetic article was written by "world famous" Max Laughton......who????? What a joke.

He's that guy that we laughed on.