It's the year of the Dog, but 'Macca' should take a bow

[jeemak]

Searching something else in old threads I came across this: [url]http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?11847-One-win-in-19-games-and-nightmare-stats-have-made-these-Western-Bulldogs-yelpless&highlight=mcg+games[/


This article sums up what we had to endure under Macca. What a difference Bevo has made and now he has taken us into the finals.

To balance things out I hope you post one of the articles that enthusiastically talks up our return of 7 & 7 for the remainder of that season.

[GVGjr]

To balance things out I hope you post one of the articles that enthusiastically talks up our return of 7 & 7 for the remainder of that season.

Don't think that will happen

[bulldogtragic]

Why is there a near pathological need to attribute any aspect of current success to a failed former coach? I like divergence of opinion and respect everyone's right to have their say, but I honestly dont get why this is a topic. I don't remember these types of conversations after Joyce was sacked or Rhode was sacked and success came soon after. As I say, he is now at Melbourne seeing he and Roos coaching/game style through and despite so much talent they are ranked 18th (or last) for scoring and the natural talent is being killed. Surely talented players playing to their potential and more wins than losses counts for a lot more than a handful of very good public speeches. We are playing finals. We are playing finals. We are playing finals. We are playing finals.

[jeemak]

Why is there a near pathological need to attribute any aspect of current success to a failed former coach? I like divergence of opinion and respect everyone's right to have their say, but I honestly dont get why this is a topic. I don't remember these types of conversations after Joyce was sacked or Rhode was sacked and success came soon after. As I say, he is now at Melbourne seeing he and Roos coaching/game style through and despite so much talent they are ranked 18th (or last) for scoring and the natural talent is being killed. Surely talented players playing to their potential and more wins than losses counts for a lot more than a handful of very good public speeches. We are playing finals. We are playing finals. We are playing finals. We are playing finals.

Is that a serious post BT?

Just asking for some balance and perspective about a previous coach is causing some debate on the forum. Some go harder at it than others, and mostly it's pretty reasonable.

[bornadog]

To balance things out I hope you post one of the articles that enthusiastically talks up our return of 7 & 7 for the remainder of that season.

Ok, I will acknowledge that under Macca we won 29.5% of our games.

[GVGjr]

Why is there a near pathological need to attribute any aspect of current success to a failed former coach? I like divergence of opinion and respect everyone's right to have their say, but I honestly dont get why this is a topic. I don't remember these types of conversations after Joyce was sacked or Rhode was sacked and success came soon after. As I say, he is now at Melbourne seeing he and Roos coaching/game style through and despite so much talent they are ranked 18th (or last) for scoring and the natural talent is being killed. Surely talented players playing to their potential and more wins than losses counts for a lot more than a handful of very good public speeches. We are playing finals. We are playing finals. We are playing finals. We are playing finals.

BT, last season you kept bumping a thread after every loss that questioned Macca's value yet when asked if you wanted him sacked for some reason you couldn't bring yourself to say yes. Now that he is gone from the club you seem intent to discredit anything he might have achieved. I get the excitement and buzz around the club now but I don't think it happened purely because there was a change of a coach.

While I'm incredibly happy with the Beveridge appointment and more than pleasantly surprised with the results that have been achieved (I certainly don't believe Macca could have gotten us to this level this year) I still believe Beveridge inherited a vastly better team in a number of aspects than Macca did. Based on that I don't have a problem Macca getting a little credit. I said it before, it's certainly Bevo's team now and in the future but there was a lot of work (and pain) particularly in the last 2 seasons that have helped put us in this position.

[jeemak]

Ok, I will acknowledge that under Macca we won 29.5% of our games.

Interesting point, each time his legacy is brought forward it's compared to Rhode, who won 20% of his, with arguably better cattle.

[bulldogtragic]

Is that a serious post BT?

Just asking for some balance and perspective about a previous coach is causing some debate on the forum. Some go harder at it than others, and mostly it's pretty reasonable.

Nothing personal J man, I just don't see many redeeming things. My perspective I've stated and the notion of balance is flawed with respect. Like an old set of scales with weights on each side, when one puts more weight on one side of the scales, the scales move and can tip over. Macca tipped over (sacked with a contract in place) and it's physically impossible to suggest that there is 'balance' when the scales show more on one side (bad).

I compare it to something Jon Oliver did on climate change highlighting the Fox News and similar networks about having 'scientists' denying CC be on their programs to 'balance' the debate. Fox had usually the same guy on every program as a 'balance' to deny CC to the scientists stating its real. The only thing as Jon points out, is that 95% of the American Scientist Community believe CC is real. So it's not real 'balance' having one thing to oppose the notion of another thing. He makes a very funny and valid point by having 95 to 5 scientists in his studio to show the real 'balance'.

The guy had a contract. The guy oversaw the worst period in our history. The guy was sacked after kids including Stringer told Peter Gordon the truth as they saw it. We had a winning rate under 30%. He pissed our captain and many others off so much they left. We couldn't score, we couldn't defend. His percentage was 80% last year with the same cattle now doing 120%. In one year with less senior talented players!! His gameplan would not and will not win a premiership now days. He didn't sell the club all that well and this year is showing he didn't understand many players and where to play them. If we were shithouse again this year would the newspapers be running articles from Geelong chronies about how our average form was due to Macca the year before? Probably not.

I get you like him and I like that you stick up for who you believe in, I do really honestly. But for many people who think like me, there's no real balance to things outside of Crameri, Campbell and Dickson. This years bright shining success highlights just how dark that oblivion was. I get you need night to have day, but I won't get up tomorrow morning and thank the suns light and warmth on tonight's dark cold sky. I will just enjoy the sun for as long as it stays out.

[jeemak]

I appreciate you going to the effort BT. But you couldn't have pitched further from the mark with your depiction of how I view this particular matter.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, last season you kept bumping a thread after every loss that questioned Macca's value yet when asked if you wanted him sacked for some reason you couldn't bring yourself to say yes. Now that he is gone from the club you seem intent to discredit anything he might have achieved. I get the excitement and buzz around the club now but I don't think it happened purely because there was a change of a coach.

While I'm incredibly happy with the Beveridge appointment and more than pleasantly surprised with the results that have been achieved (I certainly don't believe Macca could have gotten us to this level this year) I still believe Beveridge inherited a vastly better team in a number of aspects than Macca did. Based on that I don't have a problem Macca getting a little credit. I said it before, it's certainly Bevo's team now and in the future but there was a lot of work (and pain) particularly in the last 2 seasons that have helped put us in this position.

Yes, I bumped it. And as I said it was weird that the pendulum of support or criticism swayed so vastly. Vastly. Comments here or there in different threads wasn't really giving me a clear idea of where people were at and that thread to me was really interesting to see the views and thoughts of members/supporters. I found it interesting in trying to get a read on things more generally, and I've never said anything other than that. I copped unnecessary BS over it, but that comes with strangers questioning your intentions who don't know why I do things or what motivates me. Some people are suspicious and some people were wrong in accusations. I didn't start the thread, denounced the starter and always explained my actions. I don't really care about wrong perceptions of my thinking or motives, but they are wrong.

As for my views, there was something not right late last year. The members/supporters were in actuality representing something similar to the players about frustrations and Macca. He had a contract and I didn't know the extent that blokes like Stringer could leave if Macca stayed. If I knew that, like 99.9% of people I would have said sack him. It's like saying with hindsight that I am saying he was worse than I thought. Yes, with hindsight he was worse than I thought.

He took an average list, to an under performing on field team. He brought in some good players and that was huge. Our defence and attack looks nothing like last year. Our players look nothing like last year. There is way more bad than good, but it's everyone's right on this forum to say what they like and I like people still believe in him and are prepared to defend their position. I'm not one of them and as I say, there's finals on the horizon and I don't understand why we are talking him up when if we were poor again he wouldn't be mentioned.

Getting circular now.one of those agree to disagree things.

[bulldogtragic]

I appreciate you going to the effort BT. But you couldn't have pitched further from the mark with your depiction of how I view this particular matter.

Maybe that's why we are not agreeing.

But it's ok not to agree, in fact I quite like it when it's civil and reasoned. Even though not agreeing. Unlike cheap pot shots last year from ad-hoc users who only post insults who infer suspicion and assertion onto someone they don't know. Have I mentioned finals?

[jeemak]

What did Jake say at that meeting with PG? I've been meaning to ask as it seems I'm well out of the loop!

[bulldogtragic]

Was in some media reports. The reported story was that Peter Gordon was in the middle of the shite storm after Griffen requested the trade but before Macca was actually sacked. Apparently he was told that also many of young kids were very, very unhappy with Macca. Peter and Jake sat down and had a very honest chat about Macca, Jake, other pups and the future. Macca got sacked after the meeting.

[jeemak]

That's one version of it, that I've heard too.

I've also heard it's bullshit of the highest order and probably not worth repeating.

Like anything it's probably in the middle, one way or the other.

[bulldogtragic]

That's one version of it, that I've heard too.

I've also heard it's bullshit of the highest order and probably not worth repeating.

No one will ever know the truth of Shocktober. There's so many versions of the 'truth' on the record. All we know is a bloke with a contract got sacked by a club with not much money. Says we were motivated to me beyond simply Griff wanting out. Would've been a great off season to do a follow up doco with the players to Year of The Dogs.