English
Lipinski
Young
Greene
Mullenger-McHugh (Rookie)
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023
That contradicts your own criteria???
I know you put in a get out clause called quality, but as I said, how do you measure quality of a player over 10 years. They can't all be champions, some are soldiers (eg Ray), but yet they are able to play hundreds of games at the elite level.
All recruiters have hits and misses. Dal has certainty had some rippers as well, but I am not going to can him.
Anyway, this thread has gone off the rails.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
We're talking about first rounders only here, which IMO is the absolute bread and butter for recruiters. If you can't nail the majority of your first round picks, you're no good at the caper. Clayton's record is woeful, Dal's is superb. He's missed 1 only in Howard, and picked up incredible talents that were seen as marginal or reaches at the time.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
I stand to be corrected but I'm fairly sure there's numerous threads on Scott Clayton and recruiting in general that this discussion would be better placed, so the rest of us can concentrate on Tim English.
Everitt, Power, Ray, Grant, Walsh, Williams, Cordy & McMahon don't fit the criteria (as I'm not counting games they played at other clubs). So there is 8 busts.
But let me put it this way.
Bont, Stringer & Macrae have played more quality games between them then every single one of Clayton's first rounders combined.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
Cooney Grff and Higgins probably have. Hell just Cooney and Griffin would likely have them covered
He *!*!*!*!ed plenty up but I don't see why it's his fault Cooney was traded after injuries hampered him as a brownlow medalist, or that Griff went a bit mental and/or found the club to be a bad place to be or that Higgins wanted out (and pick 26 was not exactly rubbish compensation, it's what we paid for Essendon's leading goalkicker)
It's kind of funny but I'm actually on the same side of this issue as you yet I don't agree with the points you're making.
My point in all of this is, how do you measure the success of a recruiter over his career?
What I am getting is emotional arguments rather than facts. From 1990 through to 2008, Clayton was there, we never won a premiership but played in Finals in 2000, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010. (2009, 2010 players were mostly Clayton picks).
Was it his fault we didn't win the premiership - of course not as there are many other factors. Are finals a measure of success? Do we look at individual players and assess the overall list to measure success in recruiting?
I am not saying Clayton was a great recruiter, but he wasn't any worse than Dal.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
So I'm assuming that because you're focussing on them, you agree that Cooney, Griffen and maybe Higgins were his only real hits in the first round from 2000-2008. If so, then that just proves he was ****ing terrible.
And even that comes with a few caveats:
Cooney was the standout pick 1 in the worst draft ever, so not even Clayton could stuff it up. Griffen was great for us for a long time, a strong performer in finals etc, but the way he finished up taints the legacy...and the fact he was picked 1 spot before one of the greatest players of the last 20-30 years. Higgins was ok I guess, but he was pick 11 so ok is kind of the bare minimum and yet, we only got pick 26 back in return for him at the peak of his career.
Clayton sucked and isn't fit to clean Dal's shoes.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.