Three things I've learned-round 5 v Brisbane

[comrade]

Disagree. Based on his career to date he is just about the worst mark I've seen. No matter the situation, whether it is a pack Mark or uncontested lead up the wing he is at best a 50-50 shot of marking it. And if he is going for a chest mark you can almost guarantee he is going to drop it.

His technique is terrible, best shown when he is taking overhead Marks. He doesn't adjust to catch the ball at all. Basically his whole plan is to stick his arms up on the air like a ken doll and hope the ball gets wedged between them somehow.

To his credit he often meets the ball at it's highest point and has had matches where it has come together for him, but I feel it's more luck when he takes a mark than design.

I do like him but for mine he has huge flaws in his game that I'm not sure will just be fixed when he hits a certain amount of games.

I agree his technique is shoddy. It's bizarre that a player can go through the elite pathway as a junior, dominate throughout, become the consensus number 1 pick and have such a flaw in your game that hasn't improved at all in a professional environment. In fact, it seems to be getting worse.

I think he actually expects to drop it so sub-consciously doesn't launch 100% at it. The grand final is a complete outlier at this stage...perhaps due to the increased stakes, he mentally just decided to let go.

[Twodogs]

I agree his technique is shoddy. It's bizarre that a player can go through the elite pathway as a junior, dominate throughout, become the consensus number 1 pick and have such a flaw in your game that hasn't improved at all in a professional environment. In fact, it seems to be getting worse.

I think he actually expects to drop it so sub-consciously doesn't launch 100% at it. The grand final is a complete outlier at this stage...perhaps due to the increased stakes, he mentally just decided to let go.

And the prelim.

When he watches the ball all the way he is fine but as soon as he thinks about the next thing he is going to do he takes his eye off the ball and drops the mark. It's a concentration thing I think. He needs to learn to concentrate on what he is doing.

I think he will be fine.

[Sedat]

Boyd is an interesting one. His hands are terrible, so his hurt factor in attack is nowhere near where it should be. However his ability to contribute as a genuine ruckman is something no other young tall in the competition is able to do.

There's aren't too many U22 key forwards who are braining them in the comp at the moment. All of Peter Wright, Darcy Moore, Josh Schache, Paddy McCartin, Joe Daniher and Jesse Hogan are not providing a hell of a lot more than Boydy currently is in attack.

[bulldogtragic]

Boyd is an interesting one. His hands are terrible, so his hurt factor in attack is nowhere near where it should be. However his ability to contribute as a genuine ruckman is something no other young tall in the competition is able to do.

There's aren't too many U22 key forwards who are braining them in the comp at the moment. All of Peter Wright, Darcy Moore, Josh Schache, Paddy McCartin, Joe Daniher and Jesse Hogan are not providing a hell of a lot more than Boydy currently is in attack.

That's all far too balanced.

I still have no doubt he can develop into a gun KPF, who can chop out a few minutes in the ruck. But he needs a lot of experience in game of playing as a KPF to put theory into practice about where to run, how to work out his forward craft, how to work with other forwards, work through tough opponents etc. That means playing him predominantly as a forward as much as possible for most games possible. He's just simply not going to develop into the best forward he can if he's running around in the ruck. If he gets to 100 games and is not that gun forward, he will be a dominant ruckman as a back up position. But he needs time and experience up forward. His long bomb goal on Saturday was from the top shelf, as was his speccy against Sydney and his career goal kicking accuracy of 70%. I get he drops some puds, but the rest of his offerings are going to elite and rucking him too much now will be a self fulfilling prophecy of him only being a ruckman because he hasn't honed his ford craft. He still hasn't played 50 games yet, despite bettering what Tom Hawkin's did on GF day a couple of years younger and in half the games. How's not the time to lose patience and focus on him as a long term prospect as the gun KPF he will grow into.

[Twodogs]

Buddy dropped plenty of easy marks when he was young (still does) but he had plenty of other assets to cover it up.

[bulldogtragic]

Buddy dropped plenty of easy marks when he was young (still does) but he had plenty of other assets to cover it up.

Buddy's probably going to kick well over 1,000 AFL goals (5 more years on his contract?), not many players can say that. Mind you, his accuracy even in his 100 goal season was poor and he attracted a heap of media heat too. We just need to play the long game, be patient and then enjoy the years where for many of us slightly younger, saw a genuinely big and good KPF heading up the forwardline. His entire time with us has had very little consistency as a forward group with Crameri suspended for 12 months, Redders injured, Cloke in only this year and a rotation of smalls, Cordy pinch hitting. All while our forward entries have been absolutely consistently putrid. It will come together.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

That's all far too balanced.

I still have no doubt he can develop into a gun KPF, who can chop out a few minutes in the ruck. But he needs a lot of experience in game of playing as a KPF to put theory into practice about where to run, how to work out his forward craft, how to work with other forwards, work through tough opponents etc. That means playing him predominantly as a forward as much as possible for most games possible. He's just simply not going to develop into the best forward he can if he's running around in the ruck. If he gets to 100 games and is not that gun forward, he will be a dominant ruckman as a back up position. But he needs time and experience up forward. His long bomb goal on Saturday was from the top shelf, as was his speccy against Sydney and his career goal kicking accuracy of 70%. I get he drops some puds, but the rest of his offerings are going to elite and rucking him too much now will be a self fulfilling prophecy of him only being a ruckman because he hasn't honed his ford craft. He still hasn't played 50 games yet, despite bettering what Tom Hawkin's did on GF day a couple of years younger and in half the games. How's not the time to lose patience and focus on him as a long term prospect as the gun KPF he will grow into.

Tom Boyd has shown little to date since arriving at the Bulldogs to suggest that he is a key forward. His two break out games in last year's Preliminary and Grand Final showed emphatically that his future is very much as a ruckman.Roughead and Boyd proved to be a more than capable rucking combination and maybe Boyd's slow to the year could well be that he needs Roughead's influence which has been our biggest loss this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Tom Boyd has shown little to date since arriving at the Bulldogs to suggest that he is a key forward. His two break out games in last year's Preliminary and Grand Final showed emphatically that his future is very much as a ruckman.Roughead and Boyd proved to be a more than capable rucking combination and maybe Boyd's slow to the year could well be that he needs Roughead's influence which has been our biggest loss this year.

How many games does a young, 21yo, KPF get to develop into a gun (that many of us watched many times as a junior) ?

10 games? 20 games? 40 games? 60 games?

What age do we give them to mature and develop as a player, before saying they can't do what many think they can?

Age 19? 21? 23?

Do we factor in shoulder injuries, shoulder reconstructions and a lack of forwardline around them and poor delivery?

I'm not being a smart arse, I'm trying to understand the metric to see how others in the league compare.

[bulldogtragic]

I'll update this as I go:

Tom Boyd (pick 1) (traded young): 43 games, 40 goals, 23 behinds
Josh Kennedy (pick 4) (traded young): At 43 games, 46 goals, 26 behinds
Tom Hawkins (would've been top 10): At 43 games, 59 goals, 32 behinds with a gun midfield and a heap of forward support
Nick Riewoldt (pick 1): At 43 games, 44 goals, 30 behinds
Jack Riewoldt (pick 11): At 43 games, 53 goals, 31 behinds
Jon Patton (pick 1): At 43 games, 48 goals, 32 behinds
Matthew Pavlich (pick 4): At 43 games (as a forward), 44 goals, 26 behinds
Jono Brown (would've been a top 10): At 43 games, 43 goals, 26 behinds
Travis Cloke (would've been a top 10): At 43 games, 34 goals, 40 behinds

Jarrad Waite: At 43 games, 37 goals, 37 behinds


So far Tom Boyd isn't all that bad as a KPF. In fact, one could argue he deserves to be mentioned in this group elite KPF players based on comparative output. I'm not sure those numbers convince me that Boyd can't continue to develop and improve as a key forward, probably the opposite.

[ratsmac]

I learned that

1. Dunkley will become a great player in the AFL in a couple years. He could be the next Josh Kennedy (syd). He is so strong for a second year player. He often stands up in tackles releasing the ball to team mates. He's body is filling out nicely.

2. Biggs is going to cough up his spot to Bailey Williams at this rate. With pressure for a spot in the 22 getting hotter now that the VFL has started, Biggs can't afford to fumble the ball like he did against a bottom 4 team. Personally I think he gets another chance but he needs to improve.

3. Our goal kicking problems is all between the ears. In the pre-game warm up the players where slotting them from all angles. The game starts and we can't kick a goal 15 metres dead in front.

[Twodogs]

I'll update this as I go:

Tom Boyd (pick 1) (traded young): 43 games, 40 goals, 23 behinds
Josh Kennedy (pick 4) (traded young): At 43 games, 46 goals, 26 behinds
Tom Hawkins (would've been top 10): At 43 games, 59 goals, 32 behinds with a gun midfield and a heap of forward support
Nick Riewoldt (pick 1): At 43 games, 44 goals, 30 behinds
Jack Riewoldt (pick 11): At 43 games, 53 goals, 31 behinds
Jon Patton (pick 1): At 43 games, 48 goals, 32 behinds
Matthew Pavlich (pick 4): At 43 games (as a forward), 44 goals, 26 behinds
Jono Brown (would've been a top 10): At 43 games, 43 goals, 26 behinds
Travis Cloke (would've been a top 10): At 43 games, 34 goals, 40 behinds

Jarrad Waite: At 43 games, 37 goals, 37 behinds


So far Tom Boyd isn't all that bad as a KPF. In fact, one could argue he deserves to be mentioned in this group elite KPF players based on comparative output.

That's a pretty impressive record for Jack Rievoldt.

Indulge us with Liam Jones's record at 43 games

[bulldogtragic]

That's a pretty impressive record for Jack Rievoldt.

Indulge us with Liam Jones's record at 43 games

Liam Jones: At 43 games: 226 leads under the ball, 5 sulks, no tackles

[The Underdog]

Liam Jones: At 43 games: 226 leads under the ball, 5 sulks, no tackles

Actually Tom and Liam's marking techniques aren't dissimilar

[Mantis]

1/ Marcus Adams should be banned from all future pre season games as they are clearly outliers in his performances.

2/ Matt Suckling thinks he has all the time in the world when he is in possession.

3/ Zaine Cordy might just be our Morris replacement as we had hoped.

[SlimPickens]

He's not kicking the ball Slim. 26 kicks for the whole year. Clearance stats don't cut the mustard when they count a clearance as having a handball in traffic to another bloke in traffic. He's going shithouse mate! We're talking about a best and fairest winner who is in the discussion of our best players when in form.

It's really showing that Tom had bugger all of a preseason. I agree that he isn't playing to the standard we should expect but I'm willing to wait it out as I know he will come good.