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  1. #31
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Who knows in time if he has to be. If Roughy is still best 22 by the time English is playing well at the level (whenever that is), essentially as a very tall midfielder who can ruck, then Boyd may not be rucking that much and spending most time forward. Which is precisely why the forward development is so important now going ahead. It's interesting that for most of my life I've heard us lament not having a pick 1 type KPF at the Dogs. Now we've got one...
    Long term English and Roughead could be a very interesting ruck partnership. Even gives us the flexibility to throw Rough back if say Adams is looking undersized (like we did with Carlton and Casboult last year). If that works out we need Boyd to be a forward to fit him in the team (and if he can occasionally cover for Roughy that's great and helps cover in game injuries too.)
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  2. #32
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    And especially while Boyd has the luxury of someone like Cloke there with him, taking a big defender and a lot of pressure off. For all his struggles last year, Trav definitely made things easier for Darcy Moore when he was up there with him.
    Great point. Moore would love Trav back right now. Also, the experience of playing at full forward and seeing how Trav & Crameri work up the ground in front of him. You can't substitute in game experience in specialist positions, and Boyd will be a better KPF for every second of that experience. This stuff will make him a better player and our team better. Him running around neutralising ruck contests doesn't make a huge impact, and with a freshly reconstructed shoulder, I'd prefer him to ruck as little as possible from a risk/reward perspective.
    I'm worth a million in prizes, with my torture film. Drive a G.T.O. Wear a uniform. All on a government loan.

    I'm worth a million in prizes. Yeah I'm through with sleeping on the sidewalk - no more beating my brains. No more beating my brains. With the liquor and drugs. With the liquor and drugs.

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  3. #33
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Long term English and Roughead could be a very interesting ruck partnership. Even gives us the flexibility to throw Rough back if say Adams is looking undersized (like we did with Carlton and Casboult last year). If that works out we need Boyd to be a forward to fit him in the team (and if he can occasionally cover for Roughy that's great and helps cover in game injuries too.)
    The Roughy, Boyd & English combo has a great look to it, doesn't it? Three guys who can ruck, but whose other or primary area is in each of three zones on the ground. Even if they took the ruck contests in the three zones, it makes for a very flexible set up. All signs point to developing Boyd as a KP forward and improving his weaknesses and focussing on his strengths. When he kicked a small bag and got a Rising Star nomination, I think we were all happy. I hope we can get that combo going well, and ASAP.
    I'm worth a million in prizes, with my torture film. Drive a G.T.O. Wear a uniform. All on a government loan.

    I'm worth a million in prizes. Yeah I'm through with sleeping on the sidewalk - no more beating my brains. No more beating my brains. With the liquor and drugs. With the liquor and drugs.

    Well I am just a modern guy, of course I've had it in the ear before. 'Cause of a lust for life. 'Cause of a lust for life. I got a lust for life.

  4. #34
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Long term English and Roughead could be a very interesting ruck partnership. Even gives us the flexibility to throw Rough back if say Adams is looking undersized (like we did with Carlton and Casboult last year). If that works out we need Boyd to be a forward to fit him in the team (and if he can occasionally cover for Roughy that's great and helps cover in game injuries too.)
    On the issue of ruckman, you can certainly go into games with one of them but it does help no end if you have two others capable of having a stint or two there to provide some relief.

    It's dawned on me reading your post that perhaps the player English might develop into over time is a bit like Mark Blicavs. He might not play on a wing because it's doubtful he will have the running power of Blicavs but perhaps initially as a high half forward who creates a lot of mismatches for the opposition who also takes a turn or two in the ruck. It's going to take some time and patience but he should eventually develop into a fine ruckman and versatile footballer.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    When I started my carpentry apprenticeship I could barely swing a hammer, 4 years later I could build a house frame. My point being Tom Boyd's forward craft, marking craft and I suppose ruck craft will improve with guidance and practice. It's crazy to think if Boyd isn't a good contested mark now that he can't learn the right techniques and be able to become a great mark in time.

    I thought he's game against Mumford the other night showed a side Tom that he a highly competitive person and is willing to sacrifice his natural game for the benefit of the team. He was in no way disgraced in a craft that I believe he's only had a couple of years learning against one of the leagues best and scariest ruckman. With his natural talent and natural improvement for a 21 year old, that is the type of player I want playing I want in the RWB.

    Once we get Roughead, Campbell, Redpath and Cloke back where Tom doesn't have to shoulder so much of the ruck duties, I have no doubt we will see Tom improve his forward craft to the level we recruited him for.
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  7. #36
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by ratsmac View Post
    Once we get Roughead, Campbell, Redpath and Cloke back where Tom doesn't have to shoulder so much of the ruck duties, I have no doubt we will see Tom improve his forward craft to the level we recruited him for.
    We can only play 3 of those tall guys in the same side.

    Roughie, Boyd and probs Cloke.
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  8. #37
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    You can't recruit on a whim that players might not be durable, We'd end up having a list thats lopsided .
    Could also have a situation with 3 fit ruckmen , and an 18 y/o rookie!
    If that arose where do they play at the lower level ?

  9. #38
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by chef View Post
    We can only play 3 of those tall guys in the same side.

    Roughie, Boyd and probs Cloke.
    I realise that, I was just trying to say that when we have the luxury of options we'll see him blossom.
    They've done studies you know, 60% of the time, it works every time!
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  10. #39
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by ratsmac View Post
    When I started my carpentry apprenticeship I could barely swing a hammer, 4 years later I could build a house frame. My point being Tom Boyd's forward craft, marking craft and I suppose ruck craft will improve with guidance and practice. It's crazy to think if Boyd isn't a good contested mark now that he can't learn the right techniques and be able to become a great mark in time.

    I thought he's game against Mumford the other night showed a side Tom that he a highly competitive person and is willing to sacrifice his natural game for the benefit of the team. He was in no way disgraced in a craft that I believe he's only had a couple of years learning against one of the leagues best and scariest ruckman. With his natural talent and natural improvement for a 21 year old, that is the type of player I want playing I want in the RWB.

    Once we get Roughead, Campbell, Redpath and Cloke back where Tom doesn't have to shoulder so much of the ruck duties, I have no doubt we will see Tom improve his forward craft to the level we recruited him for.
    To use your analogy, Boyd started swinging a hammer 15 years ago. If he doesn't know how to build a pencil box by now (ie. take stock standard marks consistently), I doubt he ever will.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  11. #40
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Remi Moses View Post
    You can't recruit on a whim that players might not be durable, We'd end up having a list thats lopsided .
    Could also have a situation with 3 fit ruckmen , and an 18 y/o rookie!
    If that arose where do they play at the lower level ?
    And how many AFL quality mature ruckman are prepared to be 3rd in line as a break in case of emergency option? Can't think of many that were picked up in the off season.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  12. #41
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    To use your analogy, Boyd started swinging a hammer 15 years ago. If he doesn't know how to build a pencil box by now (ie. take stock standard marks consistently), I doubt he ever will.
    Wow. Six games after his GF, two where he rucked solo on very good ruckmen, and Comrade has called it.

    Expect Damien Barrett & Leigh Matthews to be using 'sources close to the club' (above) saying 'they've given up on Tom Boyd being the player they hoped for when traded for'.
    I'm worth a million in prizes, with my torture film. Drive a G.T.O. Wear a uniform. All on a government loan.

    I'm worth a million in prizes. Yeah I'm through with sleeping on the sidewalk - no more beating my brains. No more beating my brains. With the liquor and drugs. With the liquor and drugs.

    Well I am just a modern guy, of course I've had it in the ear before. 'Cause of a lust for life. 'Cause of a lust for life. I got a lust for life.

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  14. #42
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    To use your analogy, Boyd started swinging a hammer 15 years ago. If he doesn't know how to build a pencil box by now (ie. take stock standard marks consistently), I doubt he ever will.
    Surely you're not counting early childhood in Tom's development as an AFL player? That's ludicrous.
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  15. #43
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    To use your analogy, Boyd started swinging a hammer 15 years ago. If he doesn't know how to build a pencil box by now (ie. take stock standard marks consistently), I doubt he ever will.
    I really don't get why you are writing him off as a forward?

    Perhaps it was the euphoria of the GF win but you've greatly changed your opinion of him in the space of seven games and he's gone from GF hero to an almost dud forward in the blink of your eye.

    Could you chucking him under the bus a bit prematurely?
    Great. I need one more thing. Soda. Yeah, I don't want my guys paying for soda. I want you to stock my machine for three years. I'm serious.

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  16. #44
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Remi Moses View Post
    You can't recruit on a whim that players might not be durable, We'd end up having a list thats lopsided .
    Could also have a situation with 3 fit ruckmen , and an 18 y/o rookie!
    If that arose where do they play at the lower level ?
    We were the premiership side that was losing players, why not top up on a versatile tall who could potentially fill in if required?
    Great. I need one more thing. Soda. Yeah, I don't want my guys paying for soda. I want you to stock my machine for three years. I'm serious.

    "Lets roll and hey...lets do it to them before they do it to us"

  17. #45
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    Re: Is Western Bulldogs star Tom Boyd suffering from a premiership hangover?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewP6 View Post
    Surely you're not counting early childhood in Tom's development as an AFL player? That's ludicrous.
    I'm assuming he's been playing footy since he was 5 years old like most top level footballers.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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