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  1. #16
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    I've been a massive Honeychurch supporter over time, but tonight put a line though his future prospects. Attention to detail when needed was completely off, and one or two good efforts four weeks in a row (which he needs to be credited for as a 20 gamer) don't quite cut it at our club when we have others better than him in his role.

    Having said that, we have a massive issue as followers expecting players to be really good sooner than they are ready to be. Honey has only played 20 games and can probably be a decent AFL player over time. Unfortunately for him, we are in a mode where we need to expect better from anyone who lines up for us.
    If Honey was genuine AFL level quality he would have already played 50+ games. He's in that twilight zone known as 'too good for VFL and not good enough for AFL'.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  2. #17
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    We don't target anyone... We play to our strengths and back in our players.
    Yep, we are nothing if not stubborn even when other teams are using the tagging option effectively.

    I think Smith could go to Docherty and give their players something to else to focus on.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  3. #18
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Should we target Docherty likes sides are doing against JJ?
    Yes - let's play Picken as a defensive forward and hope he can nullify Docherty and maybe snare a goal or two.


    Just the one change for me, Honeychurch out and Bailey Williams in and I'd move JJ into the forward line, Williams into defence.

  4. #19
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Let's not play Picken at all.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  6. #20
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    I've been a massive Honeychurch supporter over time, but tonight put a line though his future prospects. Attention to detail when needed was completely off, and one or two good efforts four weeks in a row (which he needs to be credited for as a 20 gamer) don't quite cut it at our club when we have others better than him in his role.
    I've always seen him as Dahlhaus-lite. Has all the same attributes, tiny, unpolished, high pressure and energy, shoddy footskills, ability to play as a small forward or very inside midfielder. This is why I found it disappointing that he wasn't deemed good enough to have a go at replacing Dahlhaus' impact last season when Luke got injured.

    Could he have a future at the level? Possibly. The issue for mine is that the players that start to excel after 20 odd games are the ones who are still maturing physically to compete, or show early they have the skills but struggle to get work themselves into the game either through game knowledge/adjusting to the pace/not yet fit enough.

    Honeychurch doesn't have those things to grow into, he isn't learning how to find space at AFL level to use his footskills, he has none. He isn't growing into his body/frame, he would have been the same size at 15 as he is now. He isn't learning a new role, and he already finds the ball plenty. Daniel is similar, in that there isn't huge scope for growth in his game because all of his strengths can be put on display already at AFL level.

    It's a shame because I like his tenacity and work rate and of all the players on our list he has received the least reward for sustained good performances at VFL level, and he has shown signs these last 3 years that he can contribute, (games against North (?) this year, port last year, and early weeks 2015 were promising), but I can't see him adding enough to the side to offset the weaknesses he makes greater.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  7. #21
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Let's not play Picken at all.
    Bingo.

  8. #22
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Let's not play Picken at all.
    He's done his best work as a forward last year, have we played him in that role much this year? Genuine question, because I often leave games not really knowing what certain players' roles were.... Maybe that's half the problem.

  9. #23
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    I think it's time Bevo bit the bullet and tried taking a strength from an opposing side . It's all very well backing your own systems in, but you have to take a strength from our opponents as well .

  10. #24
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    There must be consequences after a performance like that and the season is shot so nothing wrong with making a statement.

    Picken was so poor last night I forgot he was even playing. I love the guy but he has exhausted whatever credits he had.
    Honeychurch just isn't up to it and even when we were in the game he was poor.
    Morris has had three really poor games in a row and should be replaced by Collins.....but I don't think he'll be dropped,
    I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

  11. #25
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by soupaman View Post
    I've always seen him as Dahlhaus-lite. Has all the same attributes, tiny, unpolished, high pressure and energy, shoddy footskills, ability to play as a small forward or very inside midfielder. This is why I found it disappointing that he wasn't deemed good enough to have a go at replacing Dahlhaus' impact last season when Luke got injured.

    Could he have a future at the level? Possibly. The issue for mine is that the players that start to excel after 20 odd games are the ones who are still maturing physically to compete, or show early they have the skills but struggle to get work themselves into the game either through game knowledge/adjusting to the pace/not yet fit enough.

    Honeychurch doesn't have those things to grow into, he isn't learning how to find space at AFL level to use his footskills, he has none. He isn't growing into his body/frame, he would have been the same size at 15 as he is now. He isn't learning a new role, and he already finds the ball plenty. Daniel is similar, in that there isn't huge scope for growth in his game because all of his strengths can be put on display already at AFL level.

    It's a shame because I like his tenacity and work rate and of all the players on our list he has received the least reward for sustained good performances at VFL level, and he has shown signs these last 3 years that he can contribute, (games against North (?) this year, port last year, and early weeks 2015 were promising), but I can't see him adding enough to the side to offset the weaknesses he makes greater.
    Dahl has one key advantage over Honeychurch.....pace. Effort alone doesn't enable you to get separation from your opponent.

    Having said that, I don't really like this focus on Honeychurch. He's an easy target and isn't remotely close to our biggest problem.
    I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

  12. #26
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by Go_Dogs View Post
    He's done his best work as a forward last year, have we played him in that role much this year? Genuine question, because I often leave games not really knowing what certain players' roles were.... Maybe that's half the problem.
    I would say that for most of his games he has predominantly played as a forward.
    I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

  13. #27
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    If Collins has a reasonable game in the two's could he be inline for a call up.
    I know he is still very raw but he has had some better form of late.
    Another though I had is, how is his kicking? Could he be tried at half forward. More so to provide a contest for the long bombs and leave Redpath to lead out of the square because Redpath is not a Walker type forward to have a ball dropping on his head.
    This is in light of losing TBoyd for the hopefully short term.
    Don't piss off old people
    The older we get the less "LIFE IN PRISON" is a deterrent...

  14. #28
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    It will be interesting if Footscray turns it on tomorrow. There is a massive stack of senior guys who can be dropped. Thing is, how do you choose?

  15. #29
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Jones View Post
    It will be interesting if Footscray turns it on tomorrow. There is a massive stack of senior guys who can be dropped. Thing is, how do you choose?
    If TV advertising has taught me anything, it's a little girl on Danny Trejo's shoulders or dinner table.

    Probably just as good as option as the current MC method.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  16. #30
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    Re: Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Probably just as good as option as the current MC method.
    I am going to defend the MC here abit.

    Who has really been banging the door down to get into the team?

    1. Williams should not have been dropped after the Saints game. He would be my first in.

    2. Webb - there are arguments for Webb to play, but in both of his senior games this year, he has failed to make an impact, collecting 12 disposals in each game.

    3. Collins, Lipinski, Young, etc have not been starring in the VFL

    Not sure what else the MC can do.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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