Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

[azabob]

I am going to defend the MC here abit.

Who has really been banging the door down to get into the team?

1. Williams should not have been dropped after the Saints game. He would be my first in.

2. Webb - there are arguments for Webb to play, but in both of his senior games this year, he has failed to make an impact, collecting 12 disposals in each game.

3. Collins, Lipinski, Young, etc have not been starring in the VFL

Not sure what else the MC can do.

But didn't you say the MC got it wrong last week?

[always right]

I am going to defend the MC here abit.

2. Webb - there are arguments for Webb to play, but in both of his senior games this year, he has failed to make an impact, collecting 12 disposals in each game.

On that basis, why was Dickson persisted with, why is Picken still in the side and why was Libba brought back in? All a bloke can do is go back to Footscray and play well, which is what Webb has done. I'd like him to play where he has played well in the past.....half back.

[bornadog]

On that basis, why was Dickson persisted with, why is Picken still in the side and why was Libba brought back in? All a bloke can do is go back to Footscray and play well, which is what Webb has done. I'd like him to play where he has played well in the past.....half back.

Not sure why we have tried to make him an inside mid. I agree he played some pretty good games at HBF.

If Webb plays well tomorrow, then he should get a call up for next week.

[Rocco Jones]

After reading some VFL reports (ignoring any chance of injured players returning).

Young for Roberts- I know it's harsh to drop Fletch after one game, I just think he is a liability to the team at the moment. What does he offer? We will go in physically slight but Roberts gets monstered by bigger blokes anyway. Young, Cordy, Morris and Wood to go team defense.

Clokey for Clay- Unfortunately Clay is about as mobile as a big key forward. Clokey gives us a target/helps out Roughy. Hopefully it gives Jake a bit more freedom.

Webb for Honey- Give Webby a real crack in the middle.

Williams for Matty Boyd- Williams really has to come in.

[meenies]

Was at the twos today. Liked Young, Lipinski,Williams and Webb. Are they hiding Webb's disposals?! Hope these four are in the calculations. First two have loads of energy. Williams and Webb are such great link players. Webb reported for a love tap; expect a fine.
Potential outs Boyd, JJ (rest bruises), HC and choose any forward bar Jack.

[bornadog]

Was at the twos today. Liked Young, Lipinski,Williams and Webb. Are they hiding Webb's disposals?! Hope these four are in the calculations. First two have loads of energy. Williams and Webb are such great link players. Webb reported for a love tap; expect a fine.
Potential outs Boyd, JJ (rest bruises), HC and choose any forward bar Jack.

Smith didn't play well, although he was good at VFL level last week.

[Sedat]

After reading some VFL reports (ignoring any chance of injured players returning).

Young for Roberts- I know it's harsh to drop Fletch after one game, I just think he is a liability to the team at the moment. What does he offer? We will go in physically slight but Roberts gets monstered by bigger blokes anyway. Young, Cordy, Morris and Wood to go team defense.

Clokey for Clay- Unfortunately Clay is about as mobile as a big key forward. Clokey gives us a target/helps out Roughy. Hopefully it gives Jake a bit more freedom.

Webb for Honey- Give Webby a real crack in the middle.

Williams for Matty Boyd- Williams really has to come in.

Can our midfield rotations carry all of Dahl, Wally, Hunter and Picko? So little hurt factor when all of these guys have the ball in their hands.

[Doc26]

Hopefully no Cripps this week with a leg injury sustained in the 2nd quarter, where he didn't return. Our midfield needs any assistance it can muster.

[westbulldog]

re "'There's gonna be calls from some (I'm thinking particularly the Facebook crowd) to "play the kids"."

A comprehensive post. I am one who advocates playing the kids, viz Williams, Webb, Lipinski, Young, Collins however I am not for the record one of the "facebook crowd" and have no idea who you are referring to.

[The Pie Man]

They're seeing something in Fletch that I don't giving him 2 years - to be fair, he was good in the prelim and serviceable in the GF. Maybe they can turn him into a forward.

In: Young, Cloke, Lipinski, Williams
Out: Roberts, Smith, Honeychurch, Libba

If Biggs is fit he might come in for Dahl or even JJ if he's sore. Can't see M Boyd being dropped. Not as obsessed with getting Webb into the team as others.

It feels like Libba's career is hanging by a thread. Watched the last 10 minutes of the GF again over the weekend, he won some impressive clearances...he looks bigger and less nimble at the minute, nowhere near being able to impact a contest the way he could last year. Something in our midfield has to give.

[The Underdog]

re "'There's gonna be calls from some (I'm thinking particularly the Facebook crowd) to "play the kids"."

A comprehensive post. I am one who advocates playing the kids, viz Williams, Webb, Lipinski, Young, Collins however I am not for the record one of the "facebook crowd" and have no idea who you are referring to.

Two things on this, you can play some of the kids, but they still need a tier of experienced leadership who can direct them. If you throw a bunch of the kids in together at the same time then you don't get a valuable learning experience, just kids running around and likely losing confidence while they get killed. While the stand alone VFL team is a huge help in players knowing the way we play, stepping it up to senior level is another thing and they need protection. It also helps if those senior players actually play to the gameplan and structures but that's another point entirely.
The other is the kids have to have earned the opportunity. Williams has clearly shown he can mix it, Webb is always around the fringes and has had a couple of shots already. Lipinski and Young are certainly likely to get a shot before the end of the year. Collins also may. What we can't do is throw Collins and Young together and expect them to do anything other than flounder (I'm not suggesting that you are advocating this westbulldog, but playing the kids needs to be done with a method and a purpose).

[always right]

In
Williams, Webb

Out
Honeychurch, Picken

It is of course possible that either HC or Picken might be kept in to play a defensive role on Docherty. This is a role I would normally expect Dickson to play if he was in any sort of form.

[Mantis]

Wow, where do we start??

I would love to give Webb a solid run at it, much like HC has just had, but in looking at his AFL games over the past 2 years I'm not sure we bother.. In this period he is yet to have more than 8 kicks in a game and when his only AFL asset if his left leg it isn't really good enough.

Hard to know if the recently injured will re-appear, but assuming Biggs & Campbell miss I go:

In: Young, Lipinski, Williams

Out: Roberts, HC, Smith

Would love to drop Libba, Picken, Wallis... (where do I stop?), but the likes of Dickson & Cloke need more time in the VFL.

[Rocco Jones]

I would love to give Webb a solid run at it, much like HC has just had, but in looking at his AFL games over the past 2 years I'm not sure we bother.. In this period he is yet to have more than 8 kicks in a game and when his only AFL asset if his left leg it isn't really good enough.

I'm hearing you with Webb but it's not like players filling out the side are doing much. At least Webb has a potential upside.

[Cyberdoggie]

Smith didn't play well, although he was good at VFL level last week.

Yeah we can't just merry go round players, that is not the solution, as there is a much bigger problem here.

One or two players under performing in a game isn't the cause or fix. How does these premiership players all of a sudden perform so far below what we saw last year?

Missing easy goals, fumbles, turnovers, slow ball movement, indirect play, bombing the ball to contested packs, inability to take a contested mark, handballing to players under pressure and not taking the game on, players getting tagged out of the game too easily.
Lack of fight and hardness at the ball.

This isn't personnel it's something else, lack of confidence, whatever. Merry go rounding players in and out of the side isn't going to restore confidence at this point. I do agree on the few changes, we need another tall defender to help Roberts, Roughead needs to be dropped (but there isn't really a replacement unfortunately), and Honey just isn't up to the level. Williams needs to come in and help generate some run or more direct play from half back.
Take the game on at all costs type play. Only way out of this slump.