Where does the improvement come from in 2024?

[Bullies]

Play Toby mclean in this role , he has enough footy IQ to hurt opposition when he gets the ball.
If Deboer can play ay GWS when tbey were marching towards prelims , Toby has him covered

We are better off developing and educating a player who is going to become a mid fielder. Have them play run with roles and at the same time develop their own game. Have them learn of the best going around and the next step for them is to become a mid in their own right. Maybe West if he has the tank.

[Sedat]

Where does our improvement come from in 2024?
For me it's all about coaching and game plan, nothing else.

I do think we have the majority of the pieces (maybe missing one good winger and lockdown small) but honestly, we need a complete change in gameplan and game-style.

Fix these and we' can push top 4.

Agree with this but the players also need to buy in to whatever game plan we adopt for 2024.

There is a lot of talent on the list, and there is also some really good pieces developing in key position stocks. We do have holes (midfield depth, running power/burst from stoppage, lock-down defender) but they are not insurmountable.

[hujsh]

Smith was a popular coach from the playing group perspective and he was a tremendous communicator with his training drills etc so much like in any professional environment once the news comes that a popular boss would be departing it would have been felt by some and in this instance but the wider group. Seeing Rohan run into the change rooms at 3 quarter time at Ballarat to check on Josh Bruce showed he was very invested in his players. He will be missed but we appear to be heading in another direction and the players and other coaches need to move on.

Don't argue with any of that. Smith sounds a bit like a sacrificial lamb. If the players had kept their end of the bargain there wouldn't be a need for a sacrifice. Didn't exactly prove the club wrong in the following weeks either, only justified the decision further.

[azabob]

Not sure how to word this but our onfield leaders other than Bontempelli seem to suck at influencing the players on ground during the match.

Unsure why but since Bontempelli has become captain we have had too many players cycle through the leadership positions.

Unsure how we fix that or improve for 2024.

[bornadog]

Not sure how to word this but our onfield leaders other than Bontempelli seem to suck at influencing the players on ground during the match.

Unsure why but since Bontempelli has become captain we have had too many players cycle through the leadership positions.

Unsure how we fix that or improve for 2024.

Duryea is certainly a leader in the back line. I think we need someone in the forward line to be more of a leader. Naughton needs to step up more, he is already part of the leadership group.

[D Mitchell]

Don't argue with any of that. Smith sounds a bit like a sacrificial lamb. If the players had kept their end of the bargain there wouldn't be a need for a sacrifice. Didn't exactly prove the club wrong in the following weeks either, only justified the decision further.

Why was Smith not renewed ? That's not clear. He was responsible for the backline, which hasn't performed particularly well for the last 2 years but Bev apparently wanted him to stay. His departure doesn't make any sense if the coach wants him to stay. Losses of less than 2 goals occurred in 6 games (I read that, somewhere). All that was needed was a win in one of them. Is that the fault of defence ? Who made the decision ? Perhaps it's Admin and/or Board are overstepping their areas of expertise or competence.

[lemmon]

Duryea is certainly a leader in the back line. I think we need someone in the forward line to be more of a leader. Naughton needs to step up more, he is already part of the leadership group.

Completely disagree with that. Naughton throwing himself around on Saturday night and his willingness to harass and chase is absolutely leadership. That big mark on the wing for a ball that he had no right to get to was leadership. He misses opportunities in front of goal (so does Bont), but I think he sets a huge example for that forward-line in the way he goes about his footy.

[bornadog]

Completely disagree with that. Naughton throwing himself around on Saturday night and his willingness to harass and chase is absolutely leadership. That big mark on the wing for a ball that he had no right to get to was leadership. He misses opportunities in front of goal (so does Bont), but I think he sets a huge example for that forward-line in the way he goes about his footy.

No doubt he leads by example, what I should have made clear is leadership through organising and directing the forward setup. Just like Duryea does in the backline.

[Critter]

Completely disagree with that. Naughton throwing himself around on Saturday night and his willingness to harass and chase is absolutely leadership. That big mark on the wing for a ball that he had no right to get to was leadership. He misses opportunities in front of goal (so does Bont), but I think he sets a huge example for that forward-line in the way he goes about his footy.

Spot on! There are two players who give their absolute all in their attack on the ball in the forward line, Naughton and Weightman. But for Aaron Naughton, our win/loss ratio this year would be significantly worse. Our problems are in our game plan. Our challenge is to develop a forward game plan that takes maximum advantage from Naughton and Ugle-Hagen. They are Ying and Yang, one plays chaos ball and the other works to patterns; both are elite.

Perhaps small forwards can better read the play from Jamarra's leads and contests than from Aaron's chaos play, so play Jamarra closer to goal. (This certainly looked the case in the second half of the North Melbourne game, when Naughton went to CHB and Weightman worked beautifully around JUH and Rory Lobb to kick 6 goals after half time.) Use Naughton higher up the ground where we can reap advantage from his ability to win contests, be they marking or ground ball. He is blessed with great stamina, similar to Jeremy Cameron, so let him run and watch lumbering KPDs try to keep up with him.

[Mantis]

Spot on! There are two players who give their absolute all in their attack on the ball in the forward line, Naughton and Weightman. But for Aaron Naughton, our win/loss ratio this year would be significantly worse. Our problems are in our game plan. Our challenge is to develop a forward game plan that takes maximum advantage from Naughton and Ugle-Hagen. They are Ying and Yang, one plays chaos ball and the other works to patterns; both are elite.

Perhaps small forwards can better read the play from Jamarra's leads and contests than from Aaron's chaos play, so play Jamarra closer to goal. (This certainly looked the case in the second half of the North Melbourne game, when Naughton went to CHB and Weightman worked beautifully around JUH and Rory Lobb to kick 6 goals after half time.) Use Naughton higher up the ground where we can reap advantage from his ability to win contests, be they marking or ground ball. He is blessed with great stamina, similar to Jeremy Cameron, so let him run and watch lumbering KPDs try to keep up with him.

That's all good & well, but his field kicking is well below standard and the amount of turnovers that would come from him would be nightmare fuel for us all.

[D Mitchell]

It's really hard to nominate specific coaching elements that will make us better. We need to be a resourced as thoroughly as we can be in the footy department and back that to give the players the best opportunity to thrive.

As for the players, they need to be accountable and stop being so ****ing soft and flaky. Their bullshit has cost people their jobs and will continue to do so until the club settles.

The game plan and the messaging was good enough for ten rounds after round two. They played to it with intent and our indicators and results were excellent.

It boggles the mind to think anything else other than player intent and commitment changed. Just like in previous seasons where we showed good results could be achieved. They need hard truths, they need to own their performance. Bevo backs them in and they shit all over it, sometimes, and then don't. I want them to be managed way more closely, given hard and direct feedback - it's time they grew up and stopped being unaccountable for their bullshit fluctuations in game, week to week.

Cody has eleven tackles last night after a really shit effort that cost us a goal. Do you really think it was coaching that made him be soft as butter in the fist instance, and do you really think it was coaching that made him tackle better afterwards?

Marra literally doesn't try for a few quarters, but then steps up. Must have been bad coaching in the first instance, and then good coaching in the last right? It's bullshit, it's up to him and his effort - he's the only person who can control that.

Does coaching make players choose to run back after a few goals against, or is it up to the players from the get go?

It's time to work these ****ing guys harder and more ruthlessly. They've had it their way, it's not worked, and it's now time to sort them out.

Agree with all of that. A reminder that 6 games were lost by less than a goal. Even if there is no change in the playing list, the coaching team even training regime, with just a smidgeon of your tough love applied, top 4 is possible.

[Sedat]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently (interestingly, we had our best form stretch this season when Arty was in the team and impacting defensively in F50). And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. It's an area of our game plan that clearly needs focus in the off-season.

[Grantysghost]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently. And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. Its's an area of our game plan that needs to be rectified in the off-season.

Isnt Arty a wingman? I don't think he's the right guy either.
We need the Wizard Watson.

[bulldogtragic]

The assumption seems to be that Weightman is a traditional small pressure forward. He's not. He is basically our Jamie Elliot. If we think he is suddenly going to morph into a pressure tackling machine inside F50 like a Cyril Rioli, that's not really his bag.

It's a clear gap in our list at the moment. Artie Jones has the tools to fill that gap but he's not there yet physically or consistently (interestingly, we had our best form stretch this season when Arty was in the team and impacting defensively in F50). And shoe-horning natural mids in this position is not the answer either (eg: West, Garcia). When our pressure is down in F50 (and it often is), the oppo trampolines it out of there and can slingshot from D50 to scoring opportunities in a blink. It's an area of our game plan that clearly needs focus in the off-season.

Lohmann.

[ReLoad]

Lohmann.

i watched him as the sub, thought he was ordinary at best!