Robbo: Why Tim English isn't worth $1 million to the Western Bulldogs

[Bulldog Joe]

The other thing is who wants to play for WC. They are years away from playing any finals at all.

You have to enjoy your job and also get paid well. Losing every week, is not fun

West Coast won't stay down for an extended period. They just don't.

They will be contending before Tim's career is over and he would lift them more quickly.

If it is us or West Coast the chance for success won't keep him. Their record is much better than ours.

[Happy Days]

I’d be happy to pay him $1.1m. The “ruckmen don’t win premierships” bit is stupid when you think about it for more than 10 seconds. Collingwood just won a flag with Billy Frampton actively sabotaging their forward line yet no one is clamouring to underpay Marra.

Tim is a stud and would be impossible to replace.

[Go_Dogs]

I?m most interested in what Robbo has said some other rucks are getting paid. Based on what mjp has said before, rucks (even average ones) get paid a kings ransom. I?m just trying to work out what part of that doesn?t stack up? If we can get a viable replacement for $350k, English wants $1.3m, and we?d get a massive compensation offer, it certainly gives us something to think about if Timmy is adamant he wants the $$$.

Who knows if he?s solely driven by $$$ (I expect not) so I?m kinda with Jee on this that a deal ultimately gets done for a very good offer with some incentives (but not the best offer he may get either duration or $$$ wise).

Timmy still has some growth in his game and I hope we balance ruck load / forward load more evenly which could see him become a 30 goal a year player and keep him a bit fresher for the pointy end of the year.

[jeemak]

I can't find anyone saying to let him go over an extra 100k, everyone just has different ideas of what he's worth and what they think the club should pay. I doubt Vred (as one of the few examples in this thread with a valuation of his salary) saying he's a 950K player and what you're saying is actually that different and if he stays for 1-1.1 mil I doubt Vred or many here will lambast the club for the extra 50-150K p.a

I think we all seem to generally agree that he's worth around the 1mil a year ballpark and that 1.3-4 is probably too high a risk, especially if it's a 6 year contract (speculation) as a player in a position that has a lot of physical impact and a history of concussion issues.

How's this look, now you've quantitatively assessed how people value him via your poll thread?

[hujsh]

How's this look, now you've quantitatively assessed how people value him via your poll thread?

I've got to admit I'm surprised how many people are saying under a million. Unless the plan is to lose Tim but keep Smith I think that's an offer that's prepared to lose him and I'm not sure we get back something we're happy with. Especially if people consider that their max offer. I thought I was a Tim doubter but I guess I'm in the top 6 of WOOFers as far as the salary I'd be willing to offer him (dependent on contract length and other offers we have to contend with).

Personally I'd be willing to do more to keep English over Smith if we're losing someone. Assuming Jamarra stays of course

[Sedat]

I'm totally on board with what you're saying, however in today's day and age, there is no way a person will go - I know you've looked after me in the past, but i can now make X, why wouldn't they? Footballers in particular are a single head knock away from loosing their livelihood, but they have to make hay while the sun shines.

Personally i think hes worth 850-900k a year. especially with the large salary cap increases that are looming.

a 3-4 year deal on this kind of money with total free agency for him afterwards is a good result "to pay it back to us for what we've put into him" and reward for the "now"

West Coke are going to have to cough up big time to get him over there. If he hasn't signed by July hes gone.

There have been enough recent examples of groups of players who collectively all take a hair-cut to stay together and achieve the ultimate team success. Hawks, Geelong and Richmond all did this to a degree.

Speaking for myself, if English now decides to screw the club down after everything we have given to him in relation to the frankly undeserved 1st ruck opportunities he was given as far back as 2019, for me it would be a dog move. I am realistic that in today's era it is more likely than not, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

His complete and utter inability to impact at all as the big dog 1st ruck cost us enormously in finals in 2019, 2020 and 2021 - especially in 2020 EF and 2021 GF the ruck/stoppage/clearance battle was absolutely critical in torching us. He has turned the corner in his ruck craft, but it still concerns me when a banged up old clydesdale like Scott Lycett can still thoroughly intimidate English in his AA 2023 season. Should we be dedicating $1.2-$1.4m a season for a player who has not yet cemented his reputation when it matters (notwithstanding his concussion concerns)? Gee that is a big price to pay.

[Mofra]

I?m most interested in what Robbo has said some other rucks are getting paid. Based on what mjp has said before, rucks (even average ones) get paid a kings ransom. I?m just trying to work out what part of that doesn?t stack up? If we can get a viable replacement for $350k, English wants $1.3m, and we?d get a massive compensation offer, it certainly gives us something to think about if Timmy is adamant he wants the $$$.

Who knows if he?s solely driven by $$$ (I expect not) so I?m kinda with Jee on this that a deal ultimately gets done for a very good offer with some incentives (but not the best offer he may get either duration or $$$ wise).

Timmy still has some growth in his game and I hope we balance ruck load / forward load more evenly which could see him become a 30 goal a year player and keep him a bit fresher for the pointy end of the year.

Average salary is $400k pa (ish) and rucks on AFL lists are rare so even your average ruck is probably on pretty healthy coin. Clear no 1 rucks moreso.
The MSD has basically wiped out the pool of 'next tier' rucks who aren't on AFL lists too. The wheel seems to be turning again and now we're back to seeing rucks being drafted in the main draft.

[54Bulldog16]

The focus recently has shifted to should we keep Lobb and Darcy and let English go via FA or forced trade. For me, if we are picking which 2 of the 3 we should be keeping, it?s English and Darcy every day of the week. Trade Lobb, grab a second rounder, use $200k of his salary to bump English up, use the remaining $350k to address other list needs.

[Grantysghost]

Lobb played one good game against us and somehow we decided to recruit him.

Strange. He's never felt settled.

[jeemak]

Lobb in his last year with Freo played 97.6% TOG as the main forward. With us last year he played 85.2% as the third.

His output across every metric other than goals per game was pretty much the same (1.2 vs. 1.7) but nobody can figure out why.......it genuinely boggles the mind.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=P&fopt2=2022

I get some of his efforts weren't where we'd have liked them, and I get sometimes he looked confused. But so did Bruce when he started with us and the reason why is because we play a difficult system for forwards to immediately fit into.

But don't worry about any of that, let's as a footy public just whip him without any of the boring and mitigating context. It's more fun that way.

[Go_Dogs]

Lobb in his last year with Freo played 97.6% TOG as the main forward. With us last year he played 85.2% as the third.

His output across every metric other than goals per game was pretty much the same (1.2 vs. 1.7) but nobody can figure out why.......it genuinely boggles the mind.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=P&fopt2=2022

I get some of his efforts weren't where we'd have liked them, and I get sometimes he looked confused. But so did Bruce when he started with us and the reason why is because we play a difficult system for forwards to immediately fit into.

But don't worry about any of that, let's as a footy public just whip him without any of the boring and mitigating context. It's more fun that way.

Agreed. Much more fun.


Quite optimistic about Lobb this year. Interesting the media narrative is starting to build around Darcy taking his spot. I mean, sure, it could happen, but I hope we find room for both. If it’s only one, it’s hard to see it not being Lobb who gets first crack.

[Grantysghost]

Lobb in his last year with Freo played 97.6% TOG as the main forward. With us last year he played 85.2% as the third.

His output across every metric other than goals per game was pretty much the same (1.2 vs. 1.7) but nobody can figure out why.......it genuinely boggles the mind.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=P&fopt2=2022

I get some of his efforts weren't where we'd have liked them, and I get sometimes he looked confused. But so did Bruce when he started with us and the reason why is because we play a difficult system for forwards to immediately fit into.

But don't worry about any of that, let's as a footy public just whip him without any of the boring and mitigating context. It's more fun that way.

That injury in pre season did him no favours also. He was dropped to the reserves which is pretty huge for big recruit. The competition is good to have let's hope he can have a big season. Personally I was never sold on the recruitment but he's our man now.

[mjp]

West Coast won't stay down for an extended period. They just don't.

They will be contending before Tim's career is over and he would lift them more quickly.

If it is us or West Coast the chance for success won't keep him. Their record is much better than ours.

What's an extended period?

[JanLorMill]

The focus recently has shifted to should we keep Lobb and Darcy and let English go via FA or forced trade. For me, if we are picking which 2 of the 3 we should be keeping, it?s English and Darcy every day of the week. Trade Lobb, grab a second rounder, use $200k of his salary to bump English up, use the remaining $350k to address other list needs.

We ain’t getting a second rounder for Lobb and given he is contracted next year we probably have to take some of the salary. 100/1 shot.

[jazzadogs]

Lobb in his last year with Freo played 97.6% TOG as the main forward. With us last year he played 85.2% as the third.

His output across every metric other than goals per game was pretty much the same (1.2 vs. 1.7) but nobody can figure out why.......it genuinely boggles the mind.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=P&fopt2=2022

I get some of his efforts weren't where we'd have liked them, and I get sometimes he looked confused. But so did Bruce when he started with us and the reason why is because we play a difficult system for forwards to immediately fit into.

But don't worry about any of that, let's as a footy public just whip him without any of the boring and mitigating context. It's more fun that way.

This does conveniently ignore that he got dropped. His start to the season was poor, and he improved as the year went on. I'd imagine those averages would be heavily weighted towards the second half of the year.

I was happy with his end to the season and see a clear role for him moving forward - but there is also significant pressure on him from Darcy, which I hope elevates him to an even higher level.