Tim English - What Price do you pay?

[bulldogtragic]

that's where a smart List manager comes in

A smart list manager might put a million into a couple of $500,000 good players to grow our depth and take a top 10 pick to the draft.

It’s not personal (at least for me). It’s about the best bang for buck for the list going ahead.

[Grantysghost]

We made our bed with Tim when we decided not to play / develop him in the role he is made for.

Forward / second ruck.

If that happens no Lobb and we might just have a decent stoppage ruck on the list.

[EasternWest]

I actually don't get why people worry about a players salary, I certainly don't care. What I care about is whether he is good enough to play the role.

English is worth what the market wants to pay him. The market dictates a players worth.

Because there's a limit on what we can spend? That's playing dumb and you know it.

I agree the market dictates what a player is worth. Me personally I'd rather put 500 into a competitive physical ruckman and the rest into offering some gun players whatever the western suburbs equivalent of a coa$tal life$tyle is.

[bornadog]

Because there's a limit on what we can spend? That's playing dumb and you know it.

I agree the market dictates what a player is worth. Me personally I'd rather put 500 into a competitive physical ruckman and the rest into offering some gun players whatever the western suburbs equivalent of a coa$tal life$tyle is.

Oh please.

Salary cap is increasing - up to list management to balance it out

[EasternWest]

Oh please.

Salary cap is increasing - up to list management to balance it out

Oh please what? You know there's a salary cap, saying you don't care how much someone gets paid is disingenuous.

If we over invest in anyone that's a failure to manage our list properly. The market dictates what a player is worth, English isnt worth to us what the market is dictating.

[bulldogtragic]

Oh please what? You know there's a salary cap, saying you don't care how much someone gets paid is disingenuous.

If we over invest in anyone that's a failure to manage our list properly. The market dictates what a player is worth, English isnt worth to us what the market is dictating.

Therein lies the dilemma. Is a top 10 pick, market price of him going, better value for the list where it is?

[G-Mo77]

Oh please.

Salary cap is increasing - up to list management to balance it out

It's increasing yes but it is not unlimited. Throwing a huge portion of the TPP over a long period of time on a player like English is poor list management. I think I've said this before in this thread. If they announce English resigned at 1m over 7 I'm going to be pretty disappointed.

[Go_Dogs]

It?s becoming a more interesting discussion by the week.

On current form he?s not in the best 3 rucks in the game, although he?s probably in the top 5 and inconsistently in the best couple.

We?re flush for tall forwards so there?s less reliance on him spending time there, albeit if he could consistently finish in front he?d be a difference maker for us.

His running power in the midfield is important as is his marking ability when it?s turned on.

Is he worth 8% of our (increasing) TPP? Probably not. But he?s worth a bit and someone will be prepared to pay him in that range. We?re probably not too far off doing so ourselves.

[bornadog]

It?s becoming a more interesting discussion by the week.

On current form he?s not in the best 3 rucks in the game, although he?s probably in the top 5 and inconsistently in the best couple.

We?re flush for tall forwards so there?s less reliance on him spending time there, albeit if he could consistently finish in front he?d be a difference maker for us.

His running power in the midfield is important as is his marking ability when it?s turned on.

Is he worth 8% of our (increasing) TPP? Probably not. But he?s worth a bit and someone will be prepared to pay him in that range. We?re probably not too far off doing so ourselves.

Your posts are always rational and a pleasure to read

[bulldogtragic]

It?s becoming a more interesting discussion by the week.

On current form he?s not in the best 3 rucks in the game, although he?s probably in the top 5 and inconsistently in the best couple.

We?re flush for tall forwards so there?s less reliance on him spending time there, albeit if he could consistently finish in front he?d be a difference maker for us.

His running power in the midfield is important as is his marking ability when it?s turned on.

Is he worth 8% of our (increasing) TPP? Probably not. But he?s worth a bit and someone will be prepared to pay him in that range. We?re probably not too far off doing so ourselves.

Bont, Naughts & Tim would be about 25% of our cap. Then Marra, Lobb, Macrae & Treloar could push that into 40-45%. Money for Richards, Cody, soon Darcy and other top kids is probably well over 2/3 the cap. Macrae is almost lost. Treloar is hit and miss. Marra is struggling with goal kicking. Naughton doesn’t drag us over the line in close games. We are expecting too much from too few and we will entrench this issue like Collingwood did. It’s not a lot better than the Rhode days of guns in Grant, West, Smith, Johno and a few good kids, and relying on effectively state leaguers to fill in the roles around them. We need a more even spread and pumping cap into the few seems short sighted.

[Mofra]

I agree the market dictates what a player is worth. Me personally I'd rather put 500 into a competitive physical ruckman and the rest into offering some gun players whatever the western suburbs equivalent of a coa$tal life$tyle is.

Given the cap goes from 12.4m to 17.5m from 2022 to 2025, you're not getting much of a ruck for $500k anymore. That's close to average salary from next year and competent rucks for higher than that.

[EasternWest]

It?s becoming a more interesting discussion by the week.

On current form he?s not in the best 3 rucks in the game, although he?s probably in the top 5 and inconsistently in the best couple.

We?re flush for tall forwards so there?s less reliance on him spending time there, albeit if he could consistently finish in front he?d be a difference maker for us.

His running power in the midfield is important as is his marking ability when it?s turned on.

Is he worth 8% of our (increasing) TPP? Probably not. But he?s worth a bit and someone will be prepared to pay him in that range. We?re probably not too far off doing so ourselves.

Someone mentioned playing him at CHB and chopping out in the ruck and I'm actually in love with that idea. It won't happen, but I think it's a great idea.

[Sedat]

English represents significant draft capital and also salary cap relief. It is officially a no-brainer to allow him to explore his FA options.

He's a really nice player, sometimes he is even excellent. But not once in his career has he been "the man" and gotten his team over the line. Again last night he did some really good things (fantasy points are very kind to him), but again when we needed him to show physicality against a much smaller opponent at a critical moment in the game he failed the test. Footy is all about moments (especially in close games), and he never commands the moments when they really matter - there is nothing intangible about that.

He is what he is. Let's cash our sunk cost when the demand is at its highest, and work towards retaining the players who are genuinely going to help us properly contend/win another flag - English is not going to be that player for us. We have a ready-made on the list who can do his ruck and around the ground stuff at 80-90% effectiveness who is on $500k. Cash out now while we still can.

[EasternWest]

English represents significant draft capital and also salary cap relief. It is officially a no-brainer to allow him to explore his FA options.

He's a really nice player, sometimes he is even excellent. But not once in his career has he been "the man" and gotten his team over the line. Again last night he did some really good things (fantasy points are very kind to him), but again when we needed him to show physicality against a much smaller opponent at a critical moment in the game he failed the test. Footy is all about moments (especially in close games), and he never commands the moments when they really matter - there is nothing intangible about that.

He is what he is. Let's cash our sunk cost when the demand is at its highest, and work towards retaining the players who are genuinely going to help us properly contend/win another flag - English is not going to be that player for us. We have a ready-made on the list who can do his ruck and around the ground stuff at 80-90% effectiveness who is on $500k. Cash out now while we still can.

Agreed and while I think Lobb to this point is a bust if we played him 80 per cent ruck I think he'd give us plenty.

[bulldogtragic]

Agreed and while I think Lobb to this point is a bust if we played him 80 per cent ruck I think he'd give us plenty.

Lobb is the $500,000 a season ruck - already on the list. I think that’s better for us than the nothing pick we’d get offered for him.