Why are we being killed in the middle?

[Dry Rot]

Warrnambulldog posted an excellent question in the Bombers game day thread

Do not know how we get killed out of the middle so often with the names we have in there.

This is now been happening for years.

Why?

[JanLorMill]

Started with our ruck was being as soft as butter.

[westdog54]

We're too reliant on two men. If neither get off the leash we're stuffed.

As simplistic as it sounds, we've got no plan b is the opposition can contain Bont and Libba.

After the effort that went into last week's match it was disheartening beyond belief to see our midfield get its colours lowered by this mob.

[jDogs]

Our mids are at an automatic disadvantage, having to mostly rely on what is going on with the opposition ruck. It feels like we rely so heavily on Libba and Bont because if they aren't in there, the odds are only greater that we get torched.
It really sucks hearing the likes of Chris Scott talk about the benefits of running way more guys through there compared to us, yet coming out on top or neutral. We are running our champs into the ground.

[FrediKanoute]

Begs the question why we have rotated Macrae out of the middle.

Bit like the last 4 years of JJ......yet when he gets back to his natural position we are a better side for it

[JanLorMill]

Begs the question why we have rotated Macrae out of the middle.

Bit like the last 4 years of JJ......yet when he gets back to his natural position we are a better side for it

We had the same issues with Macrae in the middle. We tried something different but it didn’t fix the problem.

[kruder]

I'm not sure we could say that Lade has fixed any of the issues from the 2021 GF since he come in, we continually let sides out the front of the stoppage.

[westdog54]

Begs the question why we have rotated Macrae out of the middle.

Bit like the last 4 years of JJ......yet when he gets back to his natural position we are a better side for it

As much as he's not particularly damaging, there's a level of composure in his kicking that so many others lack.

[Happy Days]

As much as he's not particularly damaging, there's a level of composure in his kicking that so many others lack.

He was one of few positives tonight. He actually reminds me a bit of Caleb when he doesn’t suck at the moment.

[angelopetraglia]

As much as he's not particularly damaging, there's a level of composure in his kicking that so many others lack.

The kick to the space in front of Naughton in the fist quarter was exquisite.

[angelopetraglia]

So the issue isn't Macrae. It was the same when we had Dunkley in there too. Who is another contested beast bull. It doesn't really appear to matter who is in the middle. We get beaten often too easy out of the midddle.

Maybe it is the Ruckman?

[EasternWest]

So the issue isn't Macrae. It was the same when we had Dunkley in there too. Who is another contested beast bull. It doesn't really appear to matter who is in the middle. We get beaten often too easy out of the midddle.

Maybe it is the Ruckman?

That's All Australian ruckman Tim English you're talking about. He's an All Australian don't you know.

[Grantysghost]

That's All Australian ruckman Tim English you're talking about. He's an All Australian don't you know.

I've turned on English. That was insipid.

Bradburied that AA.

By the way, what does All Australian even mean? Like literally.

[azabob]

That's All Australian ruckman Tim English you're talking about. He's an All Australian don't you know.

And champion of hits to advantage.

[mjp]

So the issue isn't Macrae. It was the same when we had Dunkley in there too. Who is another contested beast bull. It doesn't really appear to matter who is in the middle. We get beaten often too easy out of the midddle.

Maybe it is the Ruckman?

I've sorta stayed away from this thread (on purpose) 'cos it kind of crosses over from footy 'fan' stuff to footy 'work' stuff but here we go. If this sounds like I'm over explaining something simple, apologies...just ignore me.

The first thing you need to decide is if we actually ARE being beaten. Freo obviously torched us at the stop all over the ground - but outside of that our general clearance numbers have been OK. The challenge in those numbers of course is we often send an extra to the stop conceding a plus behind the footy (either in receive or intercept position depending on what the oppo do) so we should not only be winning the ball but shaping it out (vs surging) so there's always a bigger story to be unpicked.

If you wanted to isolate on the Freo game you need to really set personnel aside. Sure, there are going to be some players - I'm talking Fyfe in 2015, Dusty in 2017 type level - that are so dominant around the contest that they 'override' structure and setup - but there aren't many like that rn. I guess Cripps on his day, Serong on his day, Neale...maybe Oliver...that's about it.

Anyway, there's kind of two ways you can get beat:

#1 - You can beaten inside-out: The oppo dominates the INSIDE of the contest and uses clean first hands to get the ball to the outside layer/second bubble call it whatever you like.
#2 - You get beaten outside-in: The oppo controls the OUTSIDE of the stop, forces you IN but compresses the space...then when the ball comes out they own the space (and therefore the footy).

Now - pretty much every team in the comp players a relatively straight forward triangle structure and try to minimise the space where the oppo can move into. On top of that each team tries to separate the oppo mids so two aren't standing in adjacent positions which allows them to proactively block for one another etc - in other words if red is playing blue there will be three pairs of players in a triangle shape around the stop - red then blue then red then blue etc.

Are there alternative structures you can use to defend 'more' - well, you can play with a fixed sweeper, you can play a defensive triangle (two on goal side) etc but in those configs the main game isnt winning the ball but rather forcing the oppo to exit wide and under pressure.

Anyway - back to the original question - are we getting beaten outside-in or inside-out??

My simplified view is we tend to play with an inside-out style - relying on the likes of Liber and Dunks to get their hands on the footy INSIDE then release to the first receivers (Bont, Treloar, Daniel) on the OUTSIDE. But the oppo have been kind of compressing the room around our first hands players and forcing them to release to a contest...

Is there a solution? Well - convert to being an outside-in team. Compress the stop by starting back shoulder vs all oppo mids and forcing them IN. Our ruckman then becomes CRUCIAL because we need to expand the hit zone and get the ball to the outside (second layer/outside bubble) where our mids are now operating...inside-out teams are generally happy to halve the contest because the ball "flopping" inside suits that style.

Does the ruckman have a REAL part to play? Well...he doesn't need to work miracles - he just needs to create a 'democratic' situation where our mids can have a say in the outcome rather than caravanning after an oppo player who is on the outside running onto a pre-set H2A. Do true H2A's still exist? Maybe 1-2 per game with the games better rucks - and of course, goals can result. Ultimately though, being able to consistently get the ball to the inside or outside on the "right" side of the stop? That is where the real gold is with this position and why the Carlton mids are so in love with Pittonet.