Do we give 'RECYCLED PLAYERS' a fair go??

[Scorlibo]

Personally I'll support every player that steps out in the R, W & B no matter where they've come from. At the end of the day every player arrives from another club, even the draftees. I will say though that there is a certain almost paternal instinct that comes with players who join us through the draft. You've seen a big part of their journey, their growth, and when they begin to succeed it vindicates the Club's development program, which is great to see.

The circumstances of the player leaving do probably play a part in how they're viewed subconsciously. We praise our senior team players when they show loyalty and play their careers through with us, and on the flip side guys that have abandoned a senior spot in their old team probably have to do a bit more to earn that respect. Every Lobb or Bruce for us is a Dunkley or Griffen to another team. Whereas someone like Treloar who's been sold like an animal in a stockyard is easier to embrace straight away.

From a club and match committee perspective, perhaps some frustration has crept in as a result of the inordinate amount of opportunity that has been given to players from other clubs, sometimes at the expense of incumbent players. Bevo was a journeyman as a player and that's maybe informed his outlook on the value that recycled players can provide. He always seems to give the new guys a heap of opportunity.

[ledge]

Just because clubs delist players it doesn’t mean they aren’t any good, other reasons are they don’t fit the game plan or they have too many the same type.
I’m a supporter of Lobb I think he is a decoy that has to be watched and can ruck better than English.
Bramble we got for run and he does , he just isn’t getting his delivery right.
Baker I think was the first player we got in looking at the pace side of the game, I think he is treated harshly he is great as an outside wing with pace and can kick goals.
Poulter is a strange one I haven’t made up my mind on him , he seems very laid back but always puts in a reasonable game.
Treloar from the start was a huge get to me and I have always been an admirer.
Gardner is our honest fill in player .
Keath I would have in before Khamis atm.
Jones was a huge get.

[bornadog]

To answer the OP, I think many supporters don't give recycled players a fair go. I think we are more critical of them compared to players that have come through the draft.

Treloar for me has been one of the best gets for a very long time. Initially, I thought the Lobb move was good, because we needed a second ruck. We had to stop using the likes of Dunkley, Hannan, etc in that role, however, no one knew Sam Darcy was going to come on so well.

So in essence, the recycled players are there to fill holes in gaps around the ground, but supporters can also be harsher on them - I know I am sometimes.

[Danjul]

Just because clubs delist players it doesn?t mean they aren?t any good, other reasons are they don?t fit the game plan or they have too many the same type.
I?m a supporter of Lobb I think he is a decoy that has to be watched and can ruck better than English.
Bramble we got for run and he does , he just isn?t getting his delivery right.
Baker I think was the first player we got in looking at the pace side of the game, I think he is treated harshly he is great as an outside wing with pace and can kick goals.
Poulter is a strange one I haven?t made up my mind on him , he seems very laid back but always puts in a reasonable game.
Treloar from the start was a huge get to me and I have always been an admirer.
Gardner is our honest fill in player .
Keath I would have in before Khamis atm.
Jones was a huge get.

I agree with you about Baker. He has had some great moments but they don?t put credit in his account. We seem to be looking for reasons to drop him. I don?t think he is suited to our game plan though. He has obviously been trained in a faster ball movement environment. He frequently makes position for the line breaking run but is ignored. I have seen this on numerous occasions.

Also, our slow boundary hugging transitions out of defence allow opponents to corral our runners. Williams spends too much of his time trying to salvage control of the footy between the boundary line and two opponents instead of generating real momentum. Baker has found himself in the same position and struggled to play his natural game there too.

[Jeanette54]

Speaking of "recycled players", our current best defender had to go to another club in order to be played in his best position. Where do we regard Liam Jones in the pantheon of your question.

[hujsh]

Speaking of "recycled players", our current best defender had to go to another club in order to be played in his best position. Where do we regard Liam Jones in the pantheon of your question.

You know what I found funny? In the Liam Jones thread in one of the Williamstown reserve game write ups BT mentioned he played both ends of the ground.

That said it's worth remember the proper order of events here. Yes Jones has become a better defender than forward but when he was with us he still seemed to have a bright future at a pack marking forward (ala Naughton funny enough). It all fell apart at Carlton after he asked to leave and good on him for transforming into a good defender when it did.

[macca]

One of the challenges I see is with players we recruit is playing in their natural positions.

McComb is an example comes to mind. We bring him as a midfield, but he ends up playing on the wing and at half forward.

I get a sense same is happening with Harmes. Khamis was playing fwd last year. Gardner is now ruck/utility in VFL.

They play in one position in VFL, but when it comes to AFL, they are played in different position.

Our forward line plan is predictable. Long bomb and 2-3 dogs forwards collide into a pack. We don't have any crumber around in the right places.


The lack of rookies coming through and cementing best 22 is hurting us. This is where we could unearth mids. Geelong had 4 rookies play in their team on the weekend. We have Brambles and Buku who are still finding their feet at this level.

The lack of burst speed in our midfield list has really exposed our list.

[Mofra]

I thought we fully supported Jade Rawlings. Fully behind him when he kicked seven goals on debut with us. But the support fell away as he missed a shot from 30m out directly in front in the last quarter that cost us the game. Damn you Ashley Sampi!

That game that handed us the no 1 pick, one Adam Cooney in what was a truly awful draft?
I've forgiven Sampi a thousand times over

[Happy Days]

That game that handed us the no 1 pick, one Adam Cooney in what was a truly awful draft?
I've forgiven Sampi a thousand times over

Sampi was the year before. Nafe kicked 7, it was absolutely awesome right up until it wasn’t.

The Rawlings game was actually Cooney’s first game too. I remember thinking 18 was as old as someone could possibly be and being mystified that he wasn’t better.

[mjp]

One of the challenges I see is with players we recruit is playing in their natural positions.

McComb is an example comes to mind. We bring him as a midfield, but he ends up playing on the wing and at half forward.

Yeah...but that's not HIS fault...but he copped untold criticism for not (to simplify it) being Marcus Bontempelli.

And sure, maybe he should never have been picked but I'm sure he deserved it based on training form...I don't know - this is kind of what I'm frustrated with I guess. I mean, it's OK to wish someone was better but the constant harping on - and this isn't you btw - that McComb needed to be dropped (insert Bramble as this years scapegoat) is just tiresome. All McComb ever did (as far as I could tell) is give it everything he had...Bramble seems to play like that as well. Yep - he turned it over a few times on the weekend...but his disposal efficiency was better than Bont, Caleb and Ed Richards...now whilst I have read some criticism of each of their performances as well nowhere have I seen any negativity about the 'careless' way they dispose of the footy...

It just 'feels' unfair. I mean, it wasn't Bramble's fault we recruited him...and it's not his fault the MC picked him. Surely all we can ask is that he has a decent crack? If he stuffs it up, well, maybe that's just who/what he is...maybe we just need to take the good with the bad (like we need to with all players 'cos none of them are perfect).

Maybe it's just me but all I want to see is them having a crack...if they mess it up, well, so be it. If they repeatedly mess it up in the SAME WAY, that's not on them - that IS them. That's on the MC to stop picking them OR on their team-mates who are out of the side to play better/train better and get ahead of them...

[The bulldog tragician]

Maybe it’s just me …. but I never even warmed to Jason Akermanis!

Rory Lobb and James Harmes aren’t delisted battlers we’re giving a second chance to. I don’t feel an emotional attachment to either of them, in fact I struggle to overcome my previous dislike of them and this hasn’t been helped by the way they’ve played AND the confusion in how they’ve been used.

Treloar’s story is quite different and he gives his all. I don’t actually feel he is more harshly judged than others in our midfield for his poorer games. Bramble though is the kind of guy I’d HOPE will do well though I have my doubts.

Footy has a fair bit of emotion and irrationality and some guys seem more likeable or “fit” our image of the club more than others. I mourned the delisting of Daniel Cross for a long long time….

[Go_Dogs]

Recycled players get a hard time. Usually they’re going to be in the 20-30 best players on the list and have inconsistent performances and weaknesses which they probably won’t overcome and a homegrown draft pick who we perceive to have a higher ceiling is much more appealing.

Is it fair on the players? No.

Are we slightly better on WOOF in this regard? Hopefully.

[Danjul]

Yeah...but that's not HIS fault...but he copped untold criticism for not (to simplify it) being Marcus Bontempelli.

And sure, maybe he should never have been picked but I'm sure he deserved it based on training form...I don't know - this is kind of what I'm frustrated with I guess. I mean, it's OK to wish someone was better but the constant harping on - and this isn't you btw - that McComb needed to be dropped (insert Bramble as this years scapegoat) is just tiresome. All McComb ever did (as far as I could tell) is give it everything he had...Bramble seems to play like that as well. Yep - he turned it over a few times on the weekend...but his disposal efficiency was better than Bont, Caleb and Ed Richards...now whilst I have read some criticism of each of their performances as well nowhere have I seen any negativity about the 'careless' way they dispose of the footy...

It just 'feels' unfair. I mean, it wasn't Bramble's fault we recruited him...and it's not his fault the MC picked him. Surely all we can ask is that he has a decent crack? If he stuffs it up, well, maybe that's just who/what he is...maybe we just need to take the good with the bad (like we need to with all players 'cos none of them are perfect).

Maybe it's just me but all I want to see is them having a crack...if they mess it up, well, so be it. If they repeatedly mess it up in the SAME WAY, that's not on them - that IS them. That's on the MC to stop picking them OR on their team-mates who are out of the side to play better/train better and get ahead of them...

I quite like Bramble. His problem is our game plan does not suit him. He gets the ball, uses speed to move up the ground and then finds there is no one in position to kick to. We need to adjust the plan to accommodate the skills of players we select.

[josie]

Agree with BTrag about irrationality.

There is a bit of confirmation bias; knowing player weakness - why he was delisted, then unconsciously seeking evidence to support it when they make mistakes, whilst not balancing that with the good passages of play they are part of. Even the fair minded can fall into this.

I think we are pretty fair on woof though. Bevo is very loyal (perhaps stubborn) in persisting with some lesser light players and I think that infuriates some of us, incl. me.

I loved Aker - his smooth play, his beautiful kicks for goal, his dyed hair, his handstands, even his outspoken style (except towards end and after he left when I think he became bitter etc). Enjoyed his book too (obviously only one side of story). Understand he didn?t fit in well with playing group though and can see why he wasn?t popular amongst a fair few supporters. I recall him being overlooked by some of our players when I thought he was in a good position to receive the ball. However that could have been my confirmation bias.

[AshMac]

Good question - not sure we?re harder or easier on players traded in than other supporters, there is an expectation that the club is filling a gap and that each trade makes us better as a team though.

For me, I don?t really understand our trades - it almost feels like we set our sights so low that a player will agree to play for us because we aren?t a destination club - and I think that sets supporters up for failed expectation.

I can?t name a trade in the last 3 years that has been a genuine need for us or has then been played in the role I thought we got them for. So either disappointing or inappropriately used.

As a couple of examples -

Baker - I don?t think he is AFL standard
Harmes - why bring him in if not to tag. He is the epitome of workhorse, basic meat and potatoes.
Lobb - we had a kid we wanted to sign for another 8 years, 2 tall top 2 forwards and another tall forward FS in the following 3 years - plus freo absolutely bent us over in the trade
Bramble - I?ve been pretty happy with. The thing I don?t understand is do we need another mid tier small defender? I don?t think we do.

On the flip side you look at the players that leave - Dunkley and Higgins the two I think of first - and the scales are just so lopsided.

In short - frustrated the club is shit at trading and that probably flows onto the expectation on players