Do we give 'RECYCLED PLAYERS' a fair go??

[angelopetraglia]

I thought we fully supported Jade Rawlings. Fully behind him when he kicked seven goals on debut with us. But the support fell away as he missed a shot from 30m out directly in front in the last quarter that cost us the game. Damn you Ashley Sampi!

[Mofra]

I thought we fully supported Jade Rawlings. Fully behind him when he kicked seven goals on debut with us. But the support fell away as he missed a shot from 30m out directly in front in the last quarter that cost us the game. Damn you Ashley Sampi!

That game that handed us the no 1 pick, one Adam Cooney in what was a truly awful draft?
I've forgiven Sampi a thousand times over

[Happy Days]

That game that handed us the no 1 pick, one Adam Cooney in what was a truly awful draft?
I've forgiven Sampi a thousand times over

Sampi was the year before. Nafe kicked 7, it was absolutely awesome right up until it wasn’t.

The Rawlings game was actually Cooney’s first game too. I remember thinking 18 was as old as someone could possibly be and being mystified that he wasn’t better.

[josie]

Unfortunately there are a few keyboard bullies out there.

I think Treloar has been great for us. Plus he has really embraced the club.

Lobb I?ve not given up on yet. Same for Harmes although early signs are not great.

Baker and Bramble I?m on the fence with but their speed/dash is a point of difference and we can?t rely solely on the lotto that late draft picks offer.

Poulter I?m still hopeful for. He has a beautiful long kick and kinda glides a bit like Bailey Dale.

Gardner is ok as depth.

Keath was great in his first few years so was worth it.

Wish we could pick gems after early draft picks as well as say Geelong seems to do well.

I do question why we offer more than 2 years for some of the recycled players but maybe we have to offer that to attract them.

I said elsewhere I think we tend to hold onto fringe types too long (and I?d add to that we also do not give some fringe players the multiple opportunities others are given). I?m sure there?s valid reasons but I think it?s generally not worked in our favour.

There?s a lot been said about our bottom 6 being below par and I don?t disagree with that. I?d also say our top/mid tier players outside Bont, Libba, Treloar, Jones and maybe Richards, don?t consistently perform eg English, Naughts against really top teams - possibly due to our poor delivery inside F50, Williams, Dale, etc. (again I use Geelong as an example).

[soupman]

I think it's less a recycled player thing specifically and more we seem very harsh on players that have limitations.

Maybe we are spoiled having some pretty amazing top end players, but we have been so harsh on fringe guys of late regardless of origin. Couple this with the fact the only clubs good "recycled" players go to aren't us, means that everyone we recruit through that avenue falls straight in the "yeah but we need to upgrade him if we want to be serious", despite Biggs, Hamling, Roberts, Roughead, Cordy, hell even Tom Boyd all being direct proof that they don't actually need to be that good.

[Scorlibo]

Personally I'll support every player that steps out in the R, W & B no matter where they've come from. At the end of the day every player arrives from another club, even the draftees. I will say though that there is a certain almost paternal instinct that comes with players who join us through the draft. You've seen a big part of their journey, their growth, and when they begin to succeed it vindicates the Club's development program, which is great to see.

The circumstances of the player leaving do probably play a part in how they're viewed subconsciously. We praise our senior team players when they show loyalty and play their careers through with us, and on the flip side guys that have abandoned a senior spot in their old team probably have to do a bit more to earn that respect. Every Lobb or Bruce for us is a Dunkley or Griffen to another team. Whereas someone like Treloar who's been sold like an animal in a stockyard is easier to embrace straight away.

From a club and match committee perspective, perhaps some frustration has crept in as a result of the inordinate amount of opportunity that has been given to players from other clubs, sometimes at the expense of incumbent players. Bevo was a journeyman as a player and that's maybe informed his outlook on the value that recycled players can provide. He always seems to give the new guys a heap of opportunity.

[ledge]

Just because clubs delist players it doesn’t mean they aren’t any good, other reasons are they don’t fit the game plan or they have too many the same type.
I’m a supporter of Lobb I think he is a decoy that has to be watched and can ruck better than English.
Bramble we got for run and he does , he just isn’t getting his delivery right.
Baker I think was the first player we got in looking at the pace side of the game, I think he is treated harshly he is great as an outside wing with pace and can kick goals.
Poulter is a strange one I haven’t made up my mind on him , he seems very laid back but always puts in a reasonable game.
Treloar from the start was a huge get to me and I have always been an admirer.
Gardner is our honest fill in player .
Keath I would have in before Khamis atm.
Jones was a huge get.

[Danjul]

Just because clubs delist players it doesn?t mean they aren?t any good, other reasons are they don?t fit the game plan or they have too many the same type.
I?m a supporter of Lobb I think he is a decoy that has to be watched and can ruck better than English.
Bramble we got for run and he does , he just isn?t getting his delivery right.
Baker I think was the first player we got in looking at the pace side of the game, I think he is treated harshly he is great as an outside wing with pace and can kick goals.
Poulter is a strange one I haven?t made up my mind on him , he seems very laid back but always puts in a reasonable game.
Treloar from the start was a huge get to me and I have always been an admirer.
Gardner is our honest fill in player .
Keath I would have in before Khamis atm.
Jones was a huge get.

I agree with you about Baker. He has had some great moments but they don?t put credit in his account. We seem to be looking for reasons to drop him. I don?t think he is suited to our game plan though. He has obviously been trained in a faster ball movement environment. He frequently makes position for the line breaking run but is ignored. I have seen this on numerous occasions.

Also, our slow boundary hugging transitions out of defence allow opponents to corral our runners. Williams spends too much of his time trying to salvage control of the footy between the boundary line and two opponents instead of generating real momentum. Baker has found himself in the same position and struggled to play his natural game there too.

[bornadog]

To answer the OP, I think many supporters don't give recycled players a fair go. I think we are more critical of them compared to players that have come through the draft.

Treloar for me has been one of the best gets for a very long time. Initially, I thought the Lobb move was good, because we needed a second ruck. We had to stop using the likes of Dunkley, Hannan, etc in that role, however, no one knew Sam Darcy was going to come on so well.

So in essence, the recycled players are there to fill holes in gaps around the ground, but supporters can also be harsher on them - I know I am sometimes.

[Jeanette54]

Speaking of "recycled players", our current best defender had to go to another club in order to be played in his best position. Where do we regard Liam Jones in the pantheon of your question.

[hujsh]

Speaking of "recycled players", our current best defender had to go to another club in order to be played in his best position. Where do we regard Liam Jones in the pantheon of your question.

You know what I found funny? In the Liam Jones thread in one of the Williamstown reserve game write ups BT mentioned he played both ends of the ground.

That said it's worth remember the proper order of events here. Yes Jones has become a better defender than forward but when he was with us he still seemed to have a bright future at a pack marking forward (ala Naughton funny enough). It all fell apart at Carlton after he asked to leave and good on him for transforming into a good defender when it did.

[macca]

One of the challenges I see is with players we recruit is playing in their natural positions.

McComb is an example comes to mind. We bring him as a midfield, but he ends up playing on the wing and at half forward.

I get a sense same is happening with Harmes. Khamis was playing fwd last year. Gardner is now ruck/utility in VFL.

They play in one position in VFL, but when it comes to AFL, they are played in different position.

Our forward line plan is predictable. Long bomb and 2-3 dogs forwards collide into a pack. We don't have any crumber around in the right places.


The lack of rookies coming through and cementing best 22 is hurting us. This is where we could unearth mids. Geelong had 4 rookies play in their team on the weekend. We have Brambles and Buku who are still finding their feet at this level.

The lack of burst speed in our midfield list has really exposed our list.

[mjp]

One of the challenges I see is with players we recruit is playing in their natural positions.

McComb is an example comes to mind. We bring him as a midfield, but he ends up playing on the wing and at half forward.

Yeah...but that's not HIS fault...but he copped untold criticism for not (to simplify it) being Marcus Bontempelli.

And sure, maybe he should never have been picked but I'm sure he deserved it based on training form...I don't know - this is kind of what I'm frustrated with I guess. I mean, it's OK to wish someone was better but the constant harping on - and this isn't you btw - that McComb needed to be dropped (insert Bramble as this years scapegoat) is just tiresome. All McComb ever did (as far as I could tell) is give it everything he had...Bramble seems to play like that as well. Yep - he turned it over a few times on the weekend...but his disposal efficiency was better than Bont, Caleb and Ed Richards...now whilst I have read some criticism of each of their performances as well nowhere have I seen any negativity about the 'careless' way they dispose of the footy...

It just 'feels' unfair. I mean, it wasn't Bramble's fault we recruited him...and it's not his fault the MC picked him. Surely all we can ask is that he has a decent crack? If he stuffs it up, well, maybe that's just who/what he is...maybe we just need to take the good with the bad (like we need to with all players 'cos none of them are perfect).

Maybe it's just me but all I want to see is them having a crack...if they mess it up, well, so be it. If they repeatedly mess it up in the SAME WAY, that's not on them - that IS them. That's on the MC to stop picking them OR on their team-mates who are out of the side to play better/train better and get ahead of them...

[Danjul]

Yeah...but that's not HIS fault...but he copped untold criticism for not (to simplify it) being Marcus Bontempelli.

And sure, maybe he should never have been picked but I'm sure he deserved it based on training form...I don't know - this is kind of what I'm frustrated with I guess. I mean, it's OK to wish someone was better but the constant harping on - and this isn't you btw - that McComb needed to be dropped (insert Bramble as this years scapegoat) is just tiresome. All McComb ever did (as far as I could tell) is give it everything he had...Bramble seems to play like that as well. Yep - he turned it over a few times on the weekend...but his disposal efficiency was better than Bont, Caleb and Ed Richards...now whilst I have read some criticism of each of their performances as well nowhere have I seen any negativity about the 'careless' way they dispose of the footy...

It just 'feels' unfair. I mean, it wasn't Bramble's fault we recruited him...and it's not his fault the MC picked him. Surely all we can ask is that he has a decent crack? If he stuffs it up, well, maybe that's just who/what he is...maybe we just need to take the good with the bad (like we need to with all players 'cos none of them are perfect).

Maybe it's just me but all I want to see is them having a crack...if they mess it up, well, so be it. If they repeatedly mess it up in the SAME WAY, that's not on them - that IS them. That's on the MC to stop picking them OR on their team-mates who are out of the side to play better/train better and get ahead of them...

I quite like Bramble. His problem is our game plan does not suit him. He gets the ball, uses speed to move up the ground and then finds there is no one in position to kick to. We need to adjust the plan to accommodate the skills of players we select.

[mighty_west]

Yeah...but that's not HIS fault...but he copped untold criticism for not (to simplify it) being Marcus Bontempelli.

And sure, maybe he should never have been picked but I'm sure he deserved it based on training form...I don't know - this is kind of what I'm frustrated with I guess. I mean, it's OK to wish someone was better but the constant harping on - and this isn't you btw - that McComb needed to be dropped (insert Bramble as this years scapegoat) is just tiresome. All McComb ever did (as far as I could tell) is give it everything he had...Bramble seems to play like that as well. Yep - he turned it over a few times on the weekend...but his disposal efficiency was better than Bont, Caleb and Ed Richards...now whilst I have read some criticism of each of their performances as well nowhere have I seen any negativity about the 'careless' way they dispose of the footy...

It just 'feels' unfair. I mean, it wasn't Bramble's fault we recruited him...and it's not his fault the MC picked him. Surely all we can ask is that he has a decent crack? If he stuffs it up, well, maybe that's just who/what he is...maybe we just need to take the good with the bad (like we need to with all players 'cos none of them are perfect).

Maybe it's just me but all I want to see is them having a crack...if they mess it up, well, so be it. If they repeatedly mess it up in the SAME WAY, that's not on them - that IS them. That's on the MC to stop picking them OR on their team-mates who are out of the side to play better/train better and get ahead of them...

That goes with everything, drafting, the pressures of the number 1 pick vs pick 38, the first rounders etc, it's not the players fault they're picked so early if they haven't performed to everyone's expectations, sure they may have looked like superstars in the under 18's but not all good juniors make it for various reasons.

Then we have the pressures on Tom Boyd, not his fault he went pick 1, sure cop some flack for wanting to go home but again, not his fault he's on such a massive contract, where was the heat on Pickering (his manager)? or Gordon? they made the deal, they're the ones doing all the wheelin' and dealin' etc not Tom himself, yet it was Tom copping it so much i no doubt it was part of the reason he lost the love of the game.