Do we give 'RECYCLED PLAYERS' a fair go??

[The bulldog tragician]

Maybe it’s just me …. but I never even warmed to Jason Akermanis!

Rory Lobb and James Harmes aren’t delisted battlers we’re giving a second chance to. I don’t feel an emotional attachment to either of them, in fact I struggle to overcome my previous dislike of them and this hasn’t been helped by the way they’ve played AND the confusion in how they’ve been used.

Treloar’s story is quite different and he gives his all. I don’t actually feel he is more harshly judged than others in our midfield for his poorer games. Bramble though is the kind of guy I’d HOPE will do well though I have my doubts.

Footy has a fair bit of emotion and irrationality and some guys seem more likeable or “fit” our image of the club more than others. I mourned the delisting of Daniel Cross for a long long time….

[Go_Dogs]

Recycled players get a hard time. Usually they’re going to be in the 20-30 best players on the list and have inconsistent performances and weaknesses which they probably won’t overcome and a homegrown draft pick who we perceive to have a higher ceiling is much more appealing.

Is it fair on the players? No.

Are we slightly better on WOOF in this regard? Hopefully.

[josie]

Agree with BTrag about irrationality.

There is a bit of confirmation bias; knowing player weakness - why he was delisted, then unconsciously seeking evidence to support it when they make mistakes, whilst not balancing that with the good passages of play they are part of. Even the fair minded can fall into this.

I think we are pretty fair on woof though. Bevo is very loyal (perhaps stubborn) in persisting with some lesser light players and I think that infuriates some of us, incl. me.

I loved Aker - his smooth play, his beautiful kicks for goal, his dyed hair, his handstands, even his outspoken style (except towards end and after he left when I think he became bitter etc). Enjoyed his book too (obviously only one side of story). Understand he didn?t fit in well with playing group though and can see why he wasn?t popular amongst a fair few supporters. I recall him being overlooked by some of our players when I thought he was in a good position to receive the ball. However that could have been my confirmation bias.

[AshMac]

Good question - not sure we?re harder or easier on players traded in than other supporters, there is an expectation that the club is filling a gap and that each trade makes us better as a team though.

For me, I don?t really understand our trades - it almost feels like we set our sights so low that a player will agree to play for us because we aren?t a destination club - and I think that sets supporters up for failed expectation.

I can?t name a trade in the last 3 years that has been a genuine need for us or has then been played in the role I thought we got them for. So either disappointing or inappropriately used.

As a couple of examples -

Baker - I don?t think he is AFL standard
Harmes - why bring him in if not to tag. He is the epitome of workhorse, basic meat and potatoes.
Lobb - we had a kid we wanted to sign for another 8 years, 2 tall top 2 forwards and another tall forward FS in the following 3 years - plus freo absolutely bent us over in the trade
Bramble - I?ve been pretty happy with. The thing I don?t understand is do we need another mid tier small defender? I don?t think we do.

On the flip side you look at the players that leave - Dunkley and Higgins the two I think of first - and the scales are just so lopsided.

In short - frustrated the club is shit at trading and that probably flows onto the expectation on players

[Stevo]

As supporters we more or less view players based on how successful the team they arrived from was but some go hard at certain players. As a premiership player Duryea was given a fair shake by most of our supporters but Bramble coming from a less successful side is right up against it. Bringing in players from other sides is difficult task and especially when your not a high profile side.
In the main our supporters are skeptical when players arrive from other clubs and some of this is because of past mistakes rather than judging players on what they actually offer.

[comrade]

Yeah...but that's not HIS fault...but he copped untold criticism for not (to simplify it) being Marcus Bontempelli.

And sure, maybe he should never have been picked but I'm sure he deserved it based on training form...I don't know - this is kind of what I'm frustrated with I guess. I mean, it's OK to wish someone was better but the constant harping on - and this isn't you btw - that McComb needed to be dropped (insert Bramble as this years scapegoat) is just tiresome. All McComb ever did (as far as I could tell) is give it everything he had...Bramble seems to play like that as well. Yep - he turned it over a few times on the weekend...but his disposal efficiency was better than Bont, Caleb and Ed Richards...now whilst I have read some criticism of each of their performances as well nowhere have I seen any negativity about the 'careless' way they dispose of the footy...

It just 'feels' unfair. I mean, it wasn't Bramble's fault we recruited him...and it's not his fault the MC picked him. Surely all we can ask is that he has a decent crack? If he stuffs it up, well, maybe that's just who/what he is...maybe we just need to take the good with the bad (like we need to with all players 'cos none of them are perfect).

Maybe it's just me but all I want to see is them having a crack...if they mess it up, well, so be it. If they repeatedly mess it up in the SAME WAY, that's not on them - that IS them. That's on the MC to stop picking them OR on their team-mates who are out of the side to play better/train better and get ahead of them...

The difference between a Bramble & a Bont (or Richards, Caleb) is they can have terrible moments that are made up by the sublime brilliance they?re capable of. If Bramble fluffs his lines, there isn?t much coming back the other way. Not his fault, but you can understand the lenience. Fringe players has less margin for error as the good generally doesn?t outweigh the bad.

You are spot on with the MC being responsible for continuing to pick players who let us down. That?s been happening for years.

[lemmon]

I think we're harsh on role players rather than recycled players.

Laith and McNeil cop it as much as anyone and are ostensibly 'ours'. They try hard, they're good trainers, they're no-fuss - but they also fumble, miss opportunities, don't get a stack of the ball and don't make 'moments' in the same way more talented players do. I don't think supporters have more affection for them because we drafted or recruited them, we see the flaws and that's what we focus on.

I think it's much the same as the criticism that Harmes, Bramble and Baker get - we hone in on the flaws and that's where we end up spending most of our focus.

I disagree that 'effort' should be enough to expect from a player. Effort doesn't make finals and effort doesn't win flags. I don't think footy fans have ever been drawn to effort or doggedness unless it was combined with an ability to play the game or be bloody good at a role within it. I'm thinking of Tony Liberatore, Liam Picken and Dale Morris - we love them because they 'tried', but minimising them as 'good, honest triers' is an unfair summation of their talents.

I do agree that some of the way supporters talk about players is ridiculous and that's where the change should be. I agree that it's not their 'fault', and the discourse needs to be far less emotional than it is. It's not right to jump online and ostensibly abuse a Vandermeer or a Bramble because they 'can't kick', but supporters do have a right to voice that they think those guys shouldn't be in the side, or on the list (ala McComb).

I think that can be extended to the media too, where the way players are spoken about can be incredibly unprofessional.

Adam Treloar is an interesting example to pull out. I think he isn't universally lauded because he's a 'run forward' midfielder in a midfield that has a 'run forward' problem. We hone in and focus on that flaw and it clouds a lot of the conversation in terms of what he does right. Matthew Boyd was a similar stature player and absolutely one of our own, but I don't think supporters ever fully embraced him because he didn't kick it well and was slow - again, we focus on those flaws rather than three BnFs and three All Australians.

[mjp]

I disagree that 'effort' should be enough to expect from a player. Effort doesn't make finals and effort doesn't win flags. I don't think footy fans have ever been drawn to effort or doggedness unless it was combined with an ability to play the game or be bloody good at a role within it.

I disagree on this but fair enough.

I would though encourage you to think back of role players of the past and the way they are thought of...

If you take the 97-side as an example, we had a few superstars playing (Grant, West, Johnno, Smith etc) but if you think of the group:

Mark West is remembered as an injury prone hard hitter.
Simon Cox was a great left foot kick.
Craig Ellis a versatile CHB.
Matthew Dent a HARD half back.
Todd Curley a 'neat' running defender who was harshly done by at the tribunal.
James Cook as an amazing talent who 'could' have been anything.
etc.

We don't look back at those blokes and say:
Mark West was a peanut who needed to keep his eyes on the footy.
Simon Cox was allergic to contact and couldn't be counted on to keep his feet.
Craig Ellis was easily pushed around.
Matthew Dent sprayed the footy by foot at the WORST possible times.
Todd Curley was...well....he was there I guess.
James Cook was lazy and out of shape.

We just didn't used to think in the terms we do now...they were OUR players.

My thoughts on the Gardner and McComb stuff are well known...it was disgusting.

[angelopetraglia]

I still rememebr the trip home on the train after the 1997 prelim. My brother's sadness and then anger was all being taken out on poor Todd Curely after Jarman ripped our hearts out. He didn't want Todd Curley to step a foot inside the Whitten Oval ever again.

In hindsight with what Jarman did in the GF and the revelation he was as a forward, Jesus Christ could have played on Darren Jarman that day and the result would not have changed.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I still rememebr the trip home on the train after the 1997 prelim. My brother's sadness and then anger was all being taken out on poor Todd Curely after Jarman ripped our hearts out. He didn't want Todd Curley to step a foot inside the Whitten Oval ever again.

In hindsight with what Jarman did in the GF and the revelation he was as a forward, Jesus Christ could have played on Darren Jarman that day and the result would not have changed.

Yeah, JC's number 1 adversary might've been a better option for that job on that day...

[bornadog]

I still rememebr the trip home on the train after the 1997 prelim. My brother's sadness and then anger was all being taken out on poor Todd Curely after Jarman ripped our hearts out. He didn't want Todd Curley to step a foot inside the Whitten Oval ever again.

In hindsight with what Jarman did in the GF and the revelation he was as a forward, Jesus Christ could have played on Darren Jarman that day and the result would not have changed.

the emotional immaturity that is displayed when we lose is hard to bare, so I don’t log on as much

[GVGjr]

Fans can be irrational and the players especially from other sides often wear the brunt of any frustration after a loss.
Look at Treloar, despite being a hard worker and quality player he's often in the firing line with our supporters.
His crimes are that he's well paid and slow good mates with a Premiership player and club best and fairest winner who happened to leave us.

[Happy Days]

Trick question because stray dogs feel at home everywhere.

[EasternWest]

Trick question because stray dogs feel at home everywhere.

I guess that's why Dosh Junkley is happy at his second cousin's chiropractor's friend's house.

[jeemak]

I guess that's why Dosh Junkley is happy at his second cousin's chiropractor's friend's house.

But not quite as happy as when he's at his second cousin's chiropractor's friend's family's house.