Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

[ledge]

ICI is across the road.

Albion Explosives consisted of the Nitric Acid plant (where Craiglee is now), RDX plastic explosive (back towards St. Albans where another estate is now) and NitroGlycerine and rocket propellant behind the Deer Park Hotel. There was also a TNT plant which would be roughly where the back of Craiglee is now.

There is no way to stop making TNT other than to "drown" it. What we used to do was make TNT 24/7 for 3 months every three years (that was enough) and when it was time to stop we pushed the emergency stop button and everything in the process was dumped into aeorated water. This created an enormous Nitric Acid cloud that covered most of the Western Suburbs.

So there were no complaints we did it at 4am.


I heard recently that ICI was to be closed down soon but has received a new lease of life picking up the slack from all the Chinese competitors who have had to close down due to the Olympics.

Cairnlea! Sockeye Cairnlea!
Who is Craig Lee, Bretts brother?

[hujsh]

What's that bit about the club only leasing the property?

Will they make less money?

[Sockeye Salmon]

What's that bit about the club only leasing the property?

Will they make less money?

If we lease it we don't have to come up with the gazillion dollars to build it.

[LostDoggy]

The question needs to be asked though: why do footy clubs from OUTSIDE THE WESTERN SUBURBS choose to open gambling venues IN THE WESTERN SUBURBS? same with Collingwood I think. Why choose the West?

Again its a local planning issue. Did the locals object? On what local planning grounds? Is the proposed development in a commercial or primarily residential area etc.
,

I don't give a stuff why they chose the west. Its obvious they think the get rich quick mentality is in the west.
The question is why clubs from outside the western suburbs seem to escape scrutiny when putting pokies in our area while we get stuffed around when all we want to do is relocate some within our area
If one license should be granted it should go to the local community team.

[LostDoggy]

maybe the dogs should have got in before the hawks at caroline Springs, maybe they should have guaged the public sentiment at edgewater, and that at Caroline Springs?

You missed the point. They aren't new pokies.
Edgewater is 5 minutes away from Whitten Oval, they didn't complain when they were there, nor did they when they built the monstrousity at Highpoint just as close or the one across the river at Flemington.
The pokies at Whitten Oval were one of the first in Melbourne I believe

[Stefcep]

I don't give a stuff why they chose the west. Its obvious they think the get rich quick mentality is in the west.
The question is why clubs from outside the western suburbs seem to escape scrutiny when putting pokies in our area while we get stuffed around when all we want to do is relocate some within our area
If one license should be granted it should go to the local community team.

I think clubs read the stats that say even though there's more pokies for each bloke in the west, there's still money to be made because each bloke in the west loses more to gambling than anywhere else. It stinks that the people least able to afford losing money to machines are the ones targeted by footy clubs as much as anyone lese.

scrutiny? council's only act if its brought to their attention by the local residents that they are not happy about the proposed developments. you can be pretty certain that if the residents at Edgewater didn't protest, the dogs would have got their gaming venue licence. It all boils down to a question of location: edgewater residents don't want it in their community. the location of the hawks venue relative to the community may be different and the residents there may not have raised any concerns.

[Stefcep]

You missed the point. They aren't new pokies.
Edgewater is 5 minutes away from Whitten Oval, they didn't complain when they were there, nor did they when they built the monstrousity at Highpoint just as close or the one across the river at Flemington.
The pokies at Whitten Oval were one of the first in Melbourne I believe

No i didn't. They ARE new pokies IN EDGEWATER. That's the difference. The residents of Edgewater don't want them in their estate.

[LostDoggy]

No i didn't. They ARE new pokies IN EDGEWATER. That's the difference. The residents of Edgewater don't want them in their estate.

Only becuase Edgewater is what 5 years old, rebadged from Maribyrnong. The pokies were there before then the suburb existed as I mentioned down the road in 3 directions.

The residents should have kicked up a stink before they moved there.

[LostDoggy]

Scrutiny? council's only act if its brought to their attention by the local residents that they are not happy about the proposed developments. you can be pretty certain that if the residents at Edgewater didn't protest, the dogs would have got their gaming venue licence. It all boils down to a question of location: edgewater residents don't want it in their community. the location of the hawks venue relative to the community may be different and the residents there may not have raised any concerns.

Again the dogs already had their license. Edgewater is just a fancy name Delfin made up. If they believe they are in Toorak good for them, in the end its really just Maribrynong.

My gripe here is what are the Hawthorns, Collingwoods, Geelongs, Port Adelaides all who have/want pokies establishments in the West doing for their the local Western Community?
The Bulldogs get stuffed around but you others are most welcome.

[LostDoggy]

It will be a long drawn out battle over 300 residential objections can see both sides of the coin. Edgewater residents are gung-ho in stopping the Hilton materialising and will battle all the way. The Maribyrnong council will fight tooth and nail to stick it up us there is a big grudge happening re the redevelopment saga. Tough one for the Western Bulldogs to hurdle over. dont like our chances.

[Stefcep]

It will be a long drawn out battle over 300 residential objections can see both sides of the coin. Edgewater residents are gung-ho in stopping the Hilton materialising and will battle all the way. The Maribyrnong council will fight tooth and nail to stick it up us there is a big grudge happening re the redevelopment saga. Tough one for the Western Bulldogs to hurdle over. dont like our chances.

I think you are right and i think the dogs sense this as well.

I agree with the locals on the democratic principle that the locals should have a say as to what happens to something that they will have to live with every day of the year. Sure, sometimes the good of the entire municipality, or city or state outweighs the needs of the locals but i think this not in that category. I've recently been through and won a development dispute against a big shot builder on behalf of my elderly parents in Moonee Valley Council and i can tell you i understand where the Edgewater residents are coming from. I think its an important right that we all have to object and it needs to be preserved. You never know, next time it may not be the Dogs but another developer who wants to do similar, or worse, next door to you.

I agree that the local club should have some preference over outside clubs, but if the proposal isn't wanted by the majority of the residents because it doesn't meet local planning guidelines than thats the end of it, no matter who the developer is.

[Stefcep]

Again the dogs already had their license. Edgewater is just a fancy name Delfin made up. If they believe they are in Toorak good for them, in the end its really just Maribrynong.

My gripe here is what are the Hawthorns, Collingwoods, Geelongs, Port Adelaides all who have/want pokies establishments in the West doing for their the local Western Community?
The Bulldogs get stuffed around but you others are most welcome.

Yes they had a license for their current location, not for Edgewater.

Yes it really is just Maribyrnong but Maribyrnong is a big place whose character (for want of a better word) varies considerably depending on the actual location. The other clubs you mention are probably setting up in locations that meet local planning guidelines and are acceptable to the residents.

In some ways the Dogs do positive things for the local community. Making money from pokies or alcohol sales in not one of them. (but thats just my opinion and a separate argument about whether we should have pokies at all and sell late night alcohol and doesn't make the Dogs any worse than anyone else.)

[ledge]

Has anyone thought it might be a plus for Edgewater?
We are all here saying how bad it will be but it must have good points too,eg, jobs, tourists, entertainment, business.
I bet the council hasnt gone to the residents with the good points also.

Another thing is, they are fighting over the "hilton" ,what has that got to do with the Whitten Oval development ? apart from pokie movement?
Seems to me there is someone who doesnt like the Bulldogs in the council or has a power ego.

Is it because of the Hilton problem that the council has tried to black mail the bulldogs out of it by refusing permits at the Whitten oval?
And now the council has sooked up again by saying well the government has taken over so let them find the million we were offering.

We all know that the Whitten oval developement is great for the west, so why are the council being negative towards it all of a sudden?
Another point, alright Edgewater dont want it, so why cant the council at least pull out a map of the area and show the dogs other plots that it would be suitable?
Wouldnt that be working together???

[Stefcep]

Has anyone thought it might be a plus for Edgewater?
We are all here saying how bad it will be but it must have good points too,eg, jobs, tourists, entertainment, business.
I bet the council hasnt gone to the residents with the good points also.

Another thing is, they are fighting over the "hilton" ,what has that got to do with the Whitten Oval development ? apart from pokie movement?
Seems to me there is someone who doesnt like the Bulldogs in the council or has a power ego.

Is it because of the Hilton problem that the council has tried to black mail the bulldogs out of it by refusing permits at the Whitten oval?
And now the council has sooked up again by saying well the government has taken over so let them find the million we were offering.

We all know that the Whitten oval developement is great for the west, so why are the council being negative towards it all of a sudden?
Another point, alright Edgewater dont want it, so why cant the council at least pull out a map of the area and show the dogs other plots that it would be suitable?
Wouldnt that be working together???

I think the Edgewater residents have weighed up the good with the bad: its like the residents near Mt Alexander Rd in Ascot Vale who have pubs/clubs/pokies halls near their homes and every now and then agroup of maniacs decide to kick in their car doors, scream for an hour or two at 3 in the morning, spew on the road, tear up their letter boxes

From what I've read the Western Oval (WO) issue is because the bullies didn't apply to have approval to use part of the WO development to house the activities of the university, even though the Dogs management intended to use the development in this way about 10 months ago. They eventually put in their application a month or two ago and, as is the law, needed to allow time for community consultation to take place until September, which would have meant construction works couldn't go ahead until after that time had elapsed. The builders then threatened to walk off the job. So whose fault is that? I mean what right have the dogs management to expect one law for them and a different law for the rest of us? For f_cks sake you need a permit to build a friggin' pergola in your backyard. How incompetent are they not to know you can't build without a permit? And with that, that there would be a period set aside for community consultation? Be proud that the Council tried to uphold the law without fear OR FAVOUR, and not be bullied by an incompetent developer.

Its up to the bullies to suggest the location, make a submission for a permit, allow for community consultation and for the Council to hear the grievances of the locals, see the submission of the developer and THEN make a decision. The Council can't predict the outcome of this until it happens.

[ledge]

Its up to the bullies to suggest the location, make a submission for a permit, allow for community consultation and for the Council to hear the grievances of the locals, see the submission of the developer and THEN make a decision. The Council can't predict the outcome of this until it happens.

MMM strange that, i have seen councils bend over backwards to find and lure businesses to there area,
Melton council even did a deal many years ago that wasnt illegal but certainly didnt go to the community to get it passed, when the deal came out the residents were in uproar.

So my point is , the council only follows rules when they suit them.
Your point about the Bullies doing everything, I bet if Richard Branson was building it they would have offered him anywhere he wanted, passed it and given him the key to the city!
The council now knows exactly the building being sort to build and what it entails, so why cant it point out places it has for that kind of thing?

The Bulldogs could spend 10 years going up and down with places it wants the place built, why not get rid of all the bullshit and WORK TOGETHER and at least tell the dogs where they would think it would get through.

Personally i think its all coming down to the council trying to get back the million dollars the previous council agreed to because it was never there in the first place.
And they are using paper work and a few hundred residents to block it.
Back to spin doctoring.