-
Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Many argue that the job of the recruiting manager is the most important in the AFL. Unless I'm mistaken, all clubs expect, the person in charge of their recruiting has the job of delivering to the club players that will eventually win them a premiership.
Let's turn the spotlight on Simon Dalrymple, Recruiting Manager, of the Western Bulldogs. How well has he performed in his 5 years in this role at the club and whether he has delivered players that will form the nucleus of a premiership winning team. Surely that is enough time to decide whether his selections earn him an appraisal that warrants his retention in this critical role or not.
The following are Simon Dalrymple's selections at each respective draft since his appointment;
Father/Sons
Mitchell Wallis (pick 22, 2010)
Thomas Liberatore (41/2010)
Lachlan Hunter (49/2012)
I have intentionally highlighted & excluded father/sons from the following analysis as they are players we have had first access to. PLayers we have been able to monitor, access exclusively to other clubs (or as some say gifted to us) and form decisions well in advance of their recruitment.
The following focus's on Simon Dalrymple's live selections ;
In total
34 selections - 18 National Draft selections, 1 pre season draft selection & 15 rookie draft selections
2009 National Draft
15. Christian Howard
31. Jason Tutt
63. Lukas Markovic
76. Shane Thorne
Rookies
19. Brodie Moles
35. Andrew Hooper
48. Matthew Panos
59. Eddie Prato
68. Patrick Rose
2010 National Draft
74. Jayden Schofield
88. Zephaniah Skinner
89. Tom Hill
Rookies
22. Luke Dahlhaus
39. Jason Johannisen
55. Ed Barlow
70. Mitch Hahn
2011 National Draft
17. Clay Smith
39. Michael Talia
49. Daniel Pearce
57. Tory Dickson
Pre-Season Draft
11. Fletcher Roberts
Rookies
9. Lin Jong
27. Tom Campbell
45. Alex Greenwood
62. Jack Redpath
76. Mark Austin
2012 National Draft
5. Jake Stringer
6. Jackson Macrae
21. Nathan Hrovat
50. Joshua Prudden
Rookies
4. Brett Goodes
2013 National Draft
4. Marcus Bontempelli
42. Matthew Fuller
60. Mitch Honeychurch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the following discussion I would like to ackowledge the following;
Some selections, to my knowledge, may have been influenced by coaches (Eade or Macartney). Possibly including but not limited to;
RD 70. Mitch Hahn
ND 57. Tory Dickson
RD 27. Tom Campbell
RD 62. Jack Redpath
RD 4. Brett Goodes
Whether or not these players were recruited at the request of the coach or someone else in the football dept, the Recruiting Manager has the responsibility to argue the case, for or against, based on the players options he has to chose instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Key Observations
* From the 09/10 drafts only 4 of 16 players remain listed, these are; Howard, Tutt, Dahlhaus & Johannisen.
- Only 1, Dahlhaus has established himself as a regular AFL player
- Only 1 player (Tutt) in the 2 national drafts was chosen from the elite national pathway. And he was from the 2nd tier competition.
- 3 of these are midgets (180cm or below) & 1 suburban footballer (Howard)
- Howard was chosen in the first round, ahead of players who were proven elite players recognised in the elite national pathway, including; Ben Griffiths, Nat Fyfe, Ryan Bastinac, Jake Carlisle, Aaron Black, Mitch Duncan, Jack Gunston, all proven players through the elite national pathway and/or state leagues
- Tutt was chosen ahead of others in the National Draft (ND) OR rookie draft (RD) including; Sam Reid, Allen Christensen, Nat Vardy, Ben Stratton, Jake Fitzpatrick, Taylor Duryea, Ben Howlett, Matthew Wright, Stewart Crameri, Levi Casboult, Matthew Jaensch, James Podsiadly,
Questions - On what basis was Howard chosen as the 15th best player in the country when he was deemed not good enough to play for his state at u/18 level, nor invited to the ND camp. or State camp?
- On what basis was Howard chosen ahead of even Tutt?
- On what basis was Schofield, Skinner and Hill chosen ahead of Dahlhaus when Dahlhaus was an excellent player for Vic country at u/18 level and the others did not play rep football that year.
* An inability to select Small Defenders – 8 have been chosen. These include; Howard, Tutt, Schofield, Johannisen, Pearce, Jong, Goodes, Fuller.
- None have established themselves as an AFL player
- Current mainstay small defenders in the team are Picken, Murphy, Wood, Higgins. All recruited previously
* Midgets 10 in total - Tutt, Hooper, Schofield, Dahlhaus, Johannisen, Pearce, Greenwood, Fuller, Hrovat, Honeychurch
Here is some interesting information;
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/af...-1226650225771
* State League Recruits – 14 in total; Lukas Markovic, Shane Thorne, Brodie Moles, Eddie Prato, Pat Rose, Zeph Skinner, Ed Barlow, Mitch Hahn, Tory Dickson, Tom Campbell, Jack Redpath, Mark Austin, Brett Goodes, Matthew Fuller
- It is likely that all 14 will not make it as good AFL players
- Between the State League Recruits and the Midgets 23 out of 34 have been recruited almost 75% of Dalrymples recruits yet very few are likely to mske it as an AFL player
* Inability to Select Key Position Players;
- Only 4 Key forwards selected overall; Panos, Hill, Redpath & Roberts.
- Only key forward selected in the ND, Tom Hill at pick 89. Then 1 in the PSD & 2 in the RD.
- Only 2 ruckmen selected overall and both in the rookie draft (Prato & Campbell)
- Prato, a former basketballer, had hardly played any competitive football
- Only 1 key defender chosen (Talia) inside first 3 rounds of ND.
- Ovarall in 5 years only 1 KP player chosen in the first 2 rounds of the ND
- Current KP's Minson, Morris, Roughead all recruited previously with, aside from Talia, Jones and Cordy the next in line option
Other Observations
- No Players with genuine pace have made it
- No players with elite kicking skill have made it
- Since Mcartney became coach emphasis on the 1st round selections on larger midfield capable types (Smith, Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli)
- Limited use of rookie list in Macartney era
I could add more but it's 3am and I've worried enough about the Dogs for one night. Make up your own mind about whether Simon Dalrymple will recruit the players the Bulldogs need to win a premierhip. I have.
Listening to Brahm's 3rd Racket
-
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Likes
GVGjr thanked for this post
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
How can you possibly make any judgements on drafts that have been murdered by the two franchise teams?
There's some hits, and some misses . We need speed, we need forwards.
I've said my bit on the list having to many one paced same types.
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Also what has to be taken into account is what money has been spent in the recruiting dept.
I know they've beefed it up ( absolute necessity) got Neville Stibbard ( Norf recruiter) on board
2009 was a stinker ( Howard) but to be honest we haven't had a level playing field with the two franchises and finances in recruiting
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
But our problems haven't been because of the new teams coming in, they have been because we have made ridiculous picks. Howard is still just a staggeringly stupid pick.
2011 doesn't appear to be much better at this stage and I still heavily question the Clay Smith pick.
I think he nailed the 2012 draft to be fair.
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Interestingly if I am correct since BMac's arrival there has been a distinct change in where we get the players from.
Of the 18 players we have recruited in that time (excludes f/s) only 1, Matthew Fuller has been from an interstate club. There has been a far greater emphasis on recruiting good guys, from Victorian clubs, with a mixture of mature age and under 18 experience.
Completely contrary to many of Dalrymple's first two drafts nearly everyone has come through an established talent pathway or has played multiple games in the VFL.
I wonder if our scouting resources were redirected so instead of trying to cover the whole country (and try and snag an unknown like Skinner or Thorne) we are just playing the percentages and have decided that since Victoria produces so much talent, has no go home factor and is best located for scouts who can regularly meet up with the team out of our Melbourne base that we are best served putting the vast majority of our scouts in this state.
I should leave it alone but you're not right
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Great write Doc, appreciated.
The draft selections haven't been terrific but they have been saved by some good rookie list picks
- Moles, Hooper and Panos all got upgraded from 2009 but all are now gone
- Dahlhaus and Johannisen from 2010 and are going well. Barlow is no longer at the club
- Jong, Austin and Campbell from 2011 with mixed success.
Being the recruiting manager is often about compromise and the directions you are under and I think Dalrymple has had a few masters to serve. From Eade and his coaching team wanting players with quick in the air kicking skills and subsequently selecting Howard and Tutt to Macca wanting a cracking in player like Smith.
The concerns I have are more around the later selections. Thorne, Skinner and Schofield weren't good selections but I'm confident that Honeychurch will.
As others have pointed out, the new sides have clouded a few things and have certainly made the job more difficult but the thing I struggle with is that we seem to have gone away from the best player available selections that seem to serve most clubs well to a more short term needs based focus.
Dalrymple needs to be judged more on the last 3 years than the previous 3. Time will tell how successful he has been.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Fantastic write up and analysis Doc.
One other factor to look at when accessing recruiters is the pick number they have which of course relates to where you finish on the ladder. The last couple of years (and looking the same this year), we have finished near bottom and therefore giving us access to the first 5 or 6 in the draft. Often (and there are exceptions), its very difficult to go wrong. We picked Macrae and Stringer but could easily have had Ollie Wines.
The one thing I haven't been happy with is the lack of picking KPPs and the attempt at the state leagues, but then again, maybe the talent pool has been too far spread with 18 teams and there just hasn't been the players available.
Overall, for me the jury is still out on Simon.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Originally Posted by
Topdog
But our problems haven't been because of the new teams coming in, they have been because we have made ridiculous picks. Howard is still just a staggeringly stupid pick.
2011 doesn't appear to be much better at this stage and I still heavily question the Clay Smith pick.
I think he nailed the 2012 draft to be fair.
2011 was not a strong draft. After Clay Smith was selected I think you could make cases for two players only. It was also established that the coach wanted a hard body inside midfielder - not Crozier or Hill who are more outside players.
More of an In Bruges guy?
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Who-ward is the only pick in the first 2 rounds unlikely to make it. Wallis & Liberatore were no brainers but he deserves some credit for Hunter
If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.
Formerly gogriff
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Great thread Doctor.
The recruiting is one side of the equation, and it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. Player development is the other factor and there is an article in the Hun today that indicates that due to financial issues we did not invest in this between 2007-09, and that really only now are we addressing this.
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
If anything, it shows he started abysmally and has been improving every draft since then.
I don't quite get the Bonti love others do but I can understand the selection - you just get glimpses.
If anything, it's not some much "big bodied mids" taken under B-Mac's tenure, it's players who are "finals types" which is an overwhelming emphasis since B-Mac took over. The Smith selection at least is one we know B-Mac had a huge influence in, wanting a contested ball beast.
Will be interesting how the upcoming draft is handled, knowing there are holes all through the list - the trade period could be just as interesting.
Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Originally Posted by
gogriff
Who-ward is the only pick in the first 2 rounds unlikely to make it. Wallis & Liberatore were no brainers but he deserves some credit for Hunter
How does he deserve reward for picking a father son?
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Gee whiz thanks Doc, that looks like hours of research. Thanks Doc.
Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Originally Posted by
Mofra
If anything, it shows he started abysmally and has been improving every draft since then. .
I don't agree, the last two drafst we had picks in the top 5, anyone can look good.
Originally Posted by
Mofra
I don't quite get the Bonti love others do but I can understand the selection - you just get glimpses.
This kid will be a star. Some of his work was fantastic on Saturday and he is still 18 years old.
Originally Posted by
Mofra
If anything, it's not some much "big bodied mids" taken under B-Mac's tenure, it's players who are "finals types" which is an overwhelming emphasis since B-Mac took over.
Like who? We need KPPs not just mids
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
-
Re: Simon Dalrymple Performance Analysis
Originally Posted by
M.R.M
How does he deserve reward for picking a father son?
He doesn't. But I don't think he should be marked as a fail for that draft either just because we had two father / son picks.
The 3 picks 74 onwards were very slim odds of making it. A strong case could be mounted for Schofield making it, but he couldn't cope with the riggers of league football.
More of an In Bruges guy?