Fight brews over 'Bulldog Hilton'

[Stefcep]

Yes and no. Edgewater is a bloody expensive estate to buy in. If i bought property there i wouldn't want anything being built that would devalue the area, particularly as the developer failed to tell the buyers about such a controversial thing as a pokies venue. Clearly this would increase traffic, noise, maybe some unsavioury types, late at nights to the area and would probably reduce the quality of life for the residents. hence it may make it a less desirable area to live in, driving property values down. Personally I'd like to see the damned things banned altogether, but the government makes too much money from them

[LostDoggy]

Yes and no. Edgewater is a bloody expensive estate to buy in. If i bought property there i wouldn't want anything being built that would devalue the area, particularly as the developer failed to tell the buyers about such a controversial thing as a pokies venue. Clearly this would increase traffic, noise, maybe some unsavioury types, late at nights to the area and would probably reduce the quality of life for the residents. hence it may make it a less desirable area to live in, driving property values down. Personally I'd like to see the damned things banned altogether, but the government makes too much money from them

I don't think the development is focussed only on pokies - that is a small side area of the development in total.

[LostDoggy]

Yes and no. Edgewater is a bloody expensive estate to buy in. If i bought property there i wouldn't want anything being built that would devalue the area, particularly as the developer failed to tell the buyers about such a controversial thing as a pokies venue. Clearly this would increase traffic, noise, maybe some unsavioury types, late at nights to the area and would probably reduce the quality of life for the residents. hence it may make it a less desirable area to live in, driving property values down. Personally I'd like to see the damned things banned altogether, but the government makes too much money from them

Geez that's a load of elitist WANK.

Rich estates is PRECISELY where these things should be placed, if they're going to be placed anywhere. For one thing, those from the area who should 'frequent' the place would be able to afford it better and be less likely to be trapped in a 'poverty cycle', the greatest revenue from gambling are from the RICH, not the poor, and putting gambling venues in lower socio-economic areas is the ONE SURE WAY to add problem gamblers to the world.. and we wouldn't want any more 'unsavoury types', would we now.

If we were moving (instead of getting rid of) gambling machines, moving it from a lower socio-economic area to a higher socio-economic area is the ONLY responsible option. Those guys in their gated community of Edgewater can start to live in the real world instead of assuming they can buy their way out of reality, and accept their culpability in the class war before having the GALL to put in narrow-minded and arrogant objections.

AS IF it would drive down property prices. Do you even KNOW how property prices work?

Do you think my apartment in the inner-city is cheaper because it's next to a pub?

Fark me.

[Stefcep]

Geez that's a load of elitist WANK.

Rich estates is PRECISELY where these things should be placed, if they're going to be placed anywhere. For one thing, those from the area who should 'frequent' the place would be able to afford it better and be less likely to be trapped in a 'poverty cycle', the greatest revenue from gambling are from the RICH, not the poor, and putting gambling venues in lower socio-economic areas is the ONE SURE WAY to add problem gamblers to the world.. and we wouldn't want any more 'unsavoury types', would we now.

If we were moving (instead of getting rid of) gambling machines, moving it from a lower socio-economic area to a higher socio-economic area is the ONLY responsible option. Those guys in their gated community of Edgewater can start to live in the real world instead of assuming they can buy their way out of reality, and accept their culpability in the class war before having the GALL to put in narrow-minded and arrogant objections.

AS IF it would drive down property prices. Do you even KNOW how property prices work?

Do you think my apartment in the inner-city is cheaper because it's next to a pub?

Fark me.

Than you for your opinion Mr Marx.

Elitist? Your post smacks of the victim-mentality if some of those who find themselves at the lower end of the soci-economic ladder: Lets blame the better-offs who were all born with a silver spoon in their mouths for all of our failures, lets stick these pokies in to get their money so that we can drag them down to our level and make them pay. I grew up in Yarraville (Severn St), my old man worked for 12 hours a week for 25 years in Borthwicks, Smorgans meats, and later Arnott's biscuits driving a forklift, my old lady was a cleaner, we never had a phone or a car until I was 14, or a color tv. But i took a job at the Coles in Footscray when i was 16, studied hard-and worked- during my time at Uni, and yeah i've got a good job now but I've paid $350,000 in income tax in 16 working years (which has found its way to the unemployed, the single mums, the disabled, the less well to do) and I STILL have a $200,000 mortgage and I now work 50 hours per week raising a family. I don't live in Edgewater, but I thought about doing it, and most of the people there aren't ex-Toorak Toffs, they are people like myself who thought they would buy into an inner-city locality with good facilities, a good environment to raise a family, even if it cost more.

Wake up!!! Why do you think there are more poker machines per capita in Melbourne's West? Its because there is more money to be made from financially-struggling people who think that they can make money by gambling money, and then get into a viscous loop trying to get it back, because they never could afford to lose it in the first place. Those who have the money don't gamble for those reasons. Do you really believe that the people living in Edgewater are all of the sudden going to start gambling there, because they couldn't drive the 3 km they currently have to to get to a pokies venue? The Hotel will survive by drawing outside people into Edgwater, not by attracting the local residents. Your idea that putting a pokies venue in an affluent area will somehow redrees social inequality is just an ill-considered fantasy.

They are proposing a poker machine that has a license to serve/purchase alcohol for 20 out of 24 hours. There is a long-established correlation between access to late night alcohol, gambling and increased traffic flow, drunkedness, criminal activity, noise, violence and other antisocial behavior. Why would any resident want to live near any of THAT? Would YOU?

Your post shows that its you who has little understanding of what determines property values. FYI:
1. Supply and demand
2. Easy availability and access to services such as quality schools, public transport, shopping centres, employment opportunities.
3. Social environment free from crime, violence, and other anti-social behaviour eg public drunkedness, street gangs, public noise.

And yes your inner city apartment IS worth less than an inner-city apartment that is NOT next to a pub.

Your post is the biggest piece of biased one-eyed drivel I ave read. YOU are supporting this Hotel ONLY because its the western Bulldogs that are ban-rolling it. I DON'T support it because THATS the right thing to do.

[LostDoggy]

They are proposing a poker machine that has a license to serve/purchase alcohol for 20 out of 24 hours. There is a long-established correlation between access to late night alcohol, gambling and increased traffic flow, drunkedness, criminal activity, noise, violence and other antisocial behavior. Why would any resident want to live near any of THAT? Would YOU?

The council had no issue building a TACKY gambling and drinking den next to my house (and a primary school)!!

The council also had no issue rushing through approval for other 'less important' developments in Maribyrnong so why turn around and ask the Bulldogs to wait in line???

[LostDoggy]

The council had no issue building a TACKY gambling and drinking den next to my house (and a primary school)!!

The council also had no issue rushing through approval for other 'less important' developments in Maribyrnong so why turn around and ask the Bulldogs to wait in line???

Precisely. Thank you.

[Stefcep]

The council had no issue building a TACKY gambling and drinking den next to my house (and a primary school)!!

The council also had no issue rushing through approval for other 'less important' developments in Maribyrnong so why turn around and ask the Bulldogs to wait in line???

It all depends on the individual circumstances. specifically what objections if any were raised by the locals? people need to know that silence on an issue is taken to be acceptance.

but to suggest the council has a vendetta aginst the bullies is hard to believe.

[LostDoggy]

It all depends on the individual circumstances. specifically what objections if any were raised by the locals? people need to know that silence on an issue is taken to be acceptance.

but to suggest the council has a vendetta aginst the bullies is hard to believe.

Doh, perhaps the Mayor saying that the Dogs 'could go broke for all she cared'!!!!!!!!!!

End of thread - Goodbye Mayor.

[Stefcep]

Doh, perhaps the Mayor saying that the Dogs 'could go broke for all she cared'!!!!!!!!!!

End of thread - Goodbye Mayor.

Whatever. There'll be no Bulldog Hilton in Edgewater, the residents will see to that. All that anyone has contribute on this debate is the stereotypical victim mentality "we're poor, we get discriminated against, why do we have get poker machines but Edgewater don't". Why? Because the people living in Edgewater give enough of a shit about what happens in their community, and are smart enough to band together and use their democratic rights.

[Topdog]

YOU are supporting this Hotel ONLY because its the western Bulldogs that are ban-rolling it. I DON'T support it because THATS the right thing to do.

What makes it the right thing to do? Why do you get to decide where it is ok to have a hotel / bar?

There is never a right place to build anything at all but all of these things need to be built in order for us to prosper as a society.

What rights do the residents of Edgewater have that the residents of Footscray and Maribyrnong don't have?

[LostDoggy]

What rights do the residents of Edgewater have that the residents of Footscray and Maribyrnong don't have?

EXACTLY.

[Stefcep]

What makes it the right thing to do? Why do you get to decide where it is ok to have a hotel / bar?

There is never a right place to build anything at all but all of these things need to be built in order for us to prosper as a society.

What rights do the residents of Edgewater have that the residents of Footscray and Maribyrnong don't have?

I don't, the people living there do, as you also have a right to a say about what happens in your local area, because you will be affcted by it more than anyone else coz you're closest to it.

There ARE right and wrong places to build things, thats why we have local planning departments and the right of local residence to influence what happens in their little patch of Australia.

The residents of Footscray have the same rights to a say as to what happens in Footscray as do the residents of edgewater have to say what happens in edgwater, but the residents in foostcray have less of a right say what happens in edgewater, as do the residents in edgewater having lees of a right to say waht happens in footscray.

[hujsh]

Wake up!!! Why do you think there are more poker machines per capita in Melbourne's West? Its because there is more money to be made from financially-struggling people who think that they can make money by gambling money, and then get into a viscous loop trying to get it back, because they never could afford to lose it in the first place. Those who have the money don't gamble for those reasons. Do you really believe that the people living in Edgewater are all of the sudden going to start gambling there, because they couldn't drive the 3 km they currently have to to get to a pokies venue? The Hotel will survive by drawing outside people into Edgwater, not by attracting the local residents. Your idea that putting a pokies venue in an affluent area will somehow redrees social inequality is just an ill-considered fantasy.

If there are so many pokies in that area why would people travel to use them?

[LostDoggy]

If there are so many pokies in that area why would people travel to use them?

Good point!

[Stefcep]

Good point!

basically because "if you build it , they will come".

the point being argued was that by putting the machines in edgewater you will get the edgewater locals losing their money and that would somehow redress social inequality. i maintain that it would be drawing on the surrounding areas at least as much

and BTW there's no IF about it: Melbournes' West has more machines per capita and lost more on gambling per capita than any other region. thats not surprising, its common to all cities over the world that gambling is highest in so called low socio-economic areas-