Why are we being killed in the middle?

[Grantysghost]

Should we using Joel Freijah as a winger that was he's junior position?
He has been looking impressive coming off the half back line but a bit of speed and agility around the middle might be better.
If Baz deserts the ship Joel could be the replacement and he looks a much better kick of the footy.

Yes, it's what the evolution demands.

[GVGjr]

Should we using Joel Freijah as a winger that was he's junior position?
He has been looking impressive coming off the half back line but a bit of speed and agility around the middle might be better.
If Baz deserts the ship Joel could be the replacement and he looks a much better kick of the footy.

Some players are better suited to different positions than what they played in at the junior level.
Griffen spent a year or so at half back. Darcy never rucked at the junior level but is a back-up now at the senior.
Even Lukas Webb was a forward and a midfielder at the junior level and on his draft night Dalrymple announced he was going to be a defender.

We have Williams just about locked into a wingers spot, Gallagher spent some time there on Sunday plus we have Poulter, Baker and Bedendo as back-ups. It might be better for Freijah to spend a large chunk of this year as a defender but he could still end up being a winger for us..

[Hotdog60]

What about outside mid Treloar's role when he pulls the pin or no longer up for it.

[Rocket Science]

What about outside mid Treloar's role when he pulls the pin or no longer up for it.

It's fine, Bailey Smith should be rounding into his prime by then ... oh.

[mjp]

What about outside mid Treloar's role when he pulls the pin or no longer up for it.

Treloar has been playing inside though??

He hasn't played outside all year?

[Hotdog60]

Treloar has been playing inside though??

He hasn't played outside all year?

How much inside I see a lot of outside.

[mjp]

So the issue isn't Macrae. It was the same when we had Dunkley in there too. Who is another contested beast bull. It doesn't really appear to matter who is in the middle. We get beaten often too easy out of the midddle.

Maybe it is the Ruckman?

I've sorta stayed away from this thread (on purpose) 'cos it kind of crosses over from footy 'fan' stuff to footy 'work' stuff but here we go. If this sounds like I'm over explaining something simple, apologies...just ignore me.

The first thing you need to decide is if we actually ARE being beaten. Freo obviously torched us at the stop all over the ground - but outside of that our general clearance numbers have been OK. The challenge in those numbers of course is we often send an extra to the stop conceding a plus behind the footy (either in receive or intercept position depending on what the oppo do) so we should not only be winning the ball but shaping it out (vs surging) so there's always a bigger story to be unpicked.

If you wanted to isolate on the Freo game you need to really set personnel aside. Sure, there are going to be some players - I'm talking Fyfe in 2015, Dusty in 2017 type level - that are so dominant around the contest that they 'override' structure and setup - but there aren't many like that rn. I guess Cripps on his day, Serong on his day, Neale...maybe Oliver...that's about it.

Anyway, there's kind of two ways you can get beat:

#1 - You can beaten inside-out: The oppo dominates the INSIDE of the contest and uses clean first hands to get the ball to the outside layer/second bubble call it whatever you like.
#2 - You get beaten outside-in: The oppo controls the OUTSIDE of the stop, forces you IN but compresses the space...then when the ball comes out they own the space (and therefore the footy).

Now - pretty much every team in the comp players a relatively straight forward triangle structure and try to minimise the space where the oppo can move into. On top of that each team tries to separate the oppo mids so two aren't standing in adjacent positions which allows them to proactively block for one another etc - in other words if red is playing blue there will be three pairs of players in a triangle shape around the stop - red then blue then red then blue etc.

Are there alternative structures you can use to defend 'more' - well, you can play with a fixed sweeper, you can play a defensive triangle (two on goal side) etc but in those configs the main game isnt winning the ball but rather forcing the oppo to exit wide and under pressure.

Anyway - back to the original question - are we getting beaten outside-in or inside-out??

My simplified view is we tend to play with an inside-out style - relying on the likes of Liber and Dunks to get their hands on the footy INSIDE then release to the first receivers (Bont, Treloar, Daniel) on the OUTSIDE. But the oppo have been kind of compressing the room around our first hands players and forcing them to release to a contest...

Is there a solution? Well - convert to being an outside-in team. Compress the stop by starting back shoulder vs all oppo mids and forcing them IN. Our ruckman then becomes CRUCIAL because we need to expand the hit zone and get the ball to the outside (second layer/outside bubble) where our mids are now operating...inside-out teams are generally happy to halve the contest because the ball "flopping" inside suits that style.

Does the ruckman have a REAL part to play? Well...he doesn't need to work miracles - he just needs to create a 'democratic' situation where our mids can have a say in the outcome rather than caravanning after an oppo player who is on the outside running onto a pre-set H2A. Do true H2A's still exist? Maybe 1-2 per game with the games better rucks - and of course, goals can result. Ultimately though, being able to consistently get the ball to the inside or outside on the "right" side of the stop? That is where the real gold is with this position and why the Carlton mids are so in love with Pittonet.

[mjp]

How much inside I see a lot of outside.

Outside mid = WING, HHF.
Inside mid = Starts in at CBD.

[lemmon]

I've sorta stayed away from this thread (on purpose) 'cos it kind of crosses over from footy 'fan' stuff to footy 'work' stuff but here we go. If this sounds like I'm over explaining something simple, apologies...just ignore me...

The 'Thanks' button isn't enough - that taught me more about stoppage structure than I've ever learnt watching footy/listening to footy media.

[bornadog]

The 'Thanks' button isn't enough - that taught me more about stoppage structure than I've ever learnt watching footy/listening to footy media.

Yes me too. Way over my head

[kruder]

He was recruited as an understudy to Libba so lets see if he's ready to answer the challenge.

His confidence is growing at the level, he had some nice moments last week. I've always liked him G he just has a bit of be more bulldog in him which we are crying out for.