Make or Break year - Who's potentially out of favour?

[LostDoggy]

Most of us seem fairly happy with the new draftees (as we usually are based almost entirely on what recruiters have said).

Who, at this early stage, do you feel have moved down the pecking order at the club?

BMac will undoubtably give everyone a chance to impress over the preseason/NAB Cup.

With the draftees making up a mix of potential hard-nosed, dedicated midfielders/KP forwards and defenders - some like Clay Smith tipped to slot right in, who of the squad players can you see spending the year at Willy (and the next year delisted)?

Brodie Moles: Fell out of the squad (i don't think he was ever in favour) with Libba having a decent first year, Wallis playing some games, the emergence of Dalhaus, and battling injuries. Ward has gone but i don't see him taking that 'care-free' role on the ball. if Coons gets to fuill fitness there's another spot Moles will miss on.

Others?

[Mofra]

Brodie Moles: Fell out of the squad (i don't think he was ever in favour) with Libba having a decent first year, Wallis playing some games, the emergence of Dalhaus, and battling injuries. Ward has gone but i don't see him taking that 'care-free' role on the ball. if Coons gets to fuill fitness there's another spot Moles will miss on.
I think with the lack of outside running options we have Moles is one who could surprise.

Addison is one who could struggle with Libba set to establish himself and Smith given chances as he develops.
Gilbee & Shaggy have been great club servants, but they're not getting any quicker and Shaggy has the niggles that have curtailed him since late 09

[LostDoggy]

Hope I'm wrong, but all our fringe trades (Vespa, DJ, Moles) will struggle I think. All our recruits were brought it to create competition in the mid-range part of our list which is where these guys would have slotted into if they were good enough, but I think they'll end up being mainly depth players, which, unless we have a lot of injuries, means that they are only one quiet season away from a delisting. BMac may be looking for a Travis Varcoe type though, which either of Moles or DJ could theoretically play.

Mulligan and Hooper are lucky to be on the list and will be very unlikely to get a game throughout the year, so for guys who have been in the system for a few years I guess you can say it's a make or break year for them too.

[the banker]

I think the NAB Cup and pre season are critical for Vez, Wallis, Addison, Moles, DJ, Roughead.

Mulligan and Hooper I dont think will play a role.

Players I am looking forward to rising are Smith, Tutt, Libba

[Sedat]

I think the NAB Cup and pre season are critical for Vez, Wallis, Addison, Moles, DJ, Roughead.
I'd have also thought Cordy would want to get his skates on if he is to have a sustainable medium to long term AFL career. Hopefully he is having the best pre-season of his life and getting his body ready for the rigours of the AFL.

[DOG GOD]

If Bmac wants hard bodies and players who really give it all, players like Grant and Higgins could be in for a rude awakening. Gia will also need to be more consistant in this area. Hopefully BMac wont play guys based on name, but based on what he want them to do.

But i agree with others that players like Mulligan, Hooper, Moles and Addison are just list cloggers, with Gilbee and Hargrave on thin ice.

[Maddog37]

I think the NAB Cup and pre season are critical for Vez, Wallis, Addison, Moles, DJ, Roughead.

Mulligan and Hooper I dont think will play a role.

Players I am looking forward to rising are Smith, Tutt, Libba


Wallis and Ruff would not be in danger at years end though either way IMHO.

[Ghost Dog]

If Bmac wants hard bodies and players who really give it all, players like Grant and Higgins could be in for a rude awakening. Gia will also need to be more consistant in this area. Hopefully BMac wont play guys based on name, but based on what he want them to do.

But i agree with others that players like Mulligan, Hooper, Moles and Addison are just list cloggers, with Gilbee and Hargrave on thin ice.

I have faith in Brody Moles.

[jazzadogs]

I would expect Gilbee, and probably Hargrave, to retire at the end of 2012.

Mulligan and Hooper would need to do something extraordinary to gain an extra year.

Depending on contract situations, I would suggest that DJ, Vez, Addison and Moles are the next 4 in the firing line. All have shown various levels of ability, but it will be how they fit into BMac's gameplan that determines their future. On exposed AFL form I would say I'm most confident in Moles and Vez, but who knows what could happen.

Can't imagine that any of Cordy, Roughead, Wallis etc are at the make-or-break stage as of yet. Would love to see all three play regular senior football though.

[Bulldog Joe]

I would expect Gilbee, and probably Hargrave, to retire at the end of 2012.

Mulligan and Hooper would need to do something extraordinary to gain an extra year.

Depending on contract situations, I would suggest that DJ, Vez, Addison and Moles are the next 4 in the firing line. All have shown various levels of ability, but it will be how they fit into BMac's gameplan that determines their future. On exposed AFL form I would say I'm most confident in Moles and Vez, but who knows what could happen.

Can't imagine that any of Cordy, Roughead, Wallis etc are at the make-or-break stage as of yet. Would love to see all three play regular senior football though.

Pretty well agree with this.

With 5 top 50 picks next year we will need to make space and that does not account for any of our rookies who may earn an upgrade.

I also think Grant needs to show some heart or he will also add to that list under threat.

[chef]

Minson for me, if he can't hold down the number 1 ruck next year than his career in the AFL is over.

[jazzadogs]

Minson for me, if he can't hold down the number 1 ruck next year than his career in the AFL is over.
I think this would depend on a lot on what kind of replacement we can get for him, and how well Roughy, Cordy and Campbell (is that the rookie ruckman's name?) come on.

I fully expect Will to at least be a serviceable number one ruck though, and will be very disappointed if he's unable to hold down the spot.

[Remi Moses]

Cannot believe some are saying it's a make or break year for Wallis. Staggered to be honest
Agree with others talked about.

[the banker]

It wasn't a question of make or break year, but who had slipped down the order, or who may be out of favour.

I think both Wallis and Roughead struggled with the pace of the game this year. Roughead doesnt have the pressure coming from below ATM, but Wallis has quite a few ahead of him I think. Obviously I, like everyone, want him to develop into a star of the comp, but I think he needs to show he can step up in speed of thought and movement to press for a place in our best 22.

[Dazza]

Sherman anyone?

BMac wants quality people who go in hard for the ball.

[jazzadogs]

Sherman anyone?

BMac wants quality people who go in hard for the ball.
I doubt he would be out of contract. Will be interesting to see how he goes under BMac though, no question.

I don't recall him being particularly terrible when it came to going for the hard ball, just preferred playing on the outside and using his strengths.

[Ghost Dog]

Sherman anyone?

BMac wants quality people who go in hard for the ball.

What's between the ears is a bit soft, but the kid will bust a new one to keep his image in tact :D

[Maddog37]

Actually Sherman might just turn into a very good player if he can embrace The Governors teachings.

[turtle]

I know a few guys in Tassie who know Brodie (and his old man) very very well. The most prevelent feature in the Moles clan whilst at Glenorchy is their toughness. Brodie has never really been able to show that, but with Macca's increased focus in this area, I hope to see everything that I've heard about come to the surface.

[Ghost Dog]

I know a few guys in Tassie who know Brodie (and his old man) very very well. The most prevelent feature in the Moles clan whilst at Glenorchy is their toughness. Brodie has never really been able to show that, but with Macca's increased focus in this area, I hope to see everything that I've heard about come to the surface.

He has some great run too.

[stefoid]

We have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds of a 'sooper draft' so you would think at least 5 guys are gone - its just a matter of who. Possibly more.

Main list:
Hooper - possible reason: not good enough
Gilbee - possible reason: cooked
Mulligan - possible reason: not good enough
Moles - possible reason: poise
Marcovic - possible reason: speed
Addison - possible reason: footy smarts
Hargs - injuries

If hargrave is over his foot troubles, he might be one of those evergreen defenders. Dont underestimate experience and versatility in defence.

Obviously any rookie who isnt training his guts out or has a bad run with injuries or doesnt show significant improvement of their faults is in the gun as well.

JJ would be looking to cement his position as a good willi seniors player at the least, to get another year, you would think. Austin and Redpath would want to avoid injury (knock on wood)

[1eyedog]

Sherman anyone?

BMac wants quality people who go in hard for the ball.

We need outsiders too. Grant for mine, too soft and too disinterested.

[JohnGentStand]

Minson for me, if he can't hold down the number 1 ruck next year than his career in the AFL is over.

spot on. Wil will never get the opportunity to own it again like he will this year. I hope he shows he has the will to do it. Wil's will will be on display! Sorry, got carried away.

[AndrewP6]

spot on. Wil will never get the opportunity to own it again like he will this year. I hope he shows he has the will to do it. Wil's will will be on display! Sorry, got carried away.

Will Will's will be done?

[Go_Dogs]

Good thread. Potentially there are a number of players in the make or break category, and really, just about the whole list is with a new coach coming in.

The list Stefoid posted is a pretty good summation, and making 7 changes to the senior list (including the vets list) next year makes sense given the picks we'll have.


A couple of others:
Vez might be in a bit of trouble. Recruitment of Dickson says to me the staff have some doubts over Vez being that small marking forward or that Dickson is simply a better option. If he can't play 20 games next year then he's gone I think.

Tom Hill is more of a project player who needs time, but given his injury background and that we have recruited and upgraded tall forwards, he'll be under pressure to keep his spot on the list. Jones, Grant and Panos will most likely get the first shots, then Skinner and Roberts who may also compete for spots. I get Hill is a slightly different player to most/all of the above, but he needs to stay on the park and play consistent VFL seniors.

[GVGjr]

Tom Hill is more of a project player who needs time, but given his injury background and that we have recruited and upgraded tall forwards, he'll be under pressure to keep his spot on the list. Jones, Grant and Panos will most likely get the first shots, then Skinner and Roberts who may also compete for spots. I get Hill is a slightly different player to most/all of the above, but he needs to stay on the park and play consistent VFL seniors.

I popped in and had a look at the training session yesterday and Hill looks to have added some size and muscle. He was always going to need two seasons to develop and 2012 will be a good one to gauge how he is progressing. Given the way teams need their 2nd ruckman to be capable of playing as a forward he could be a solid investment. He's seems to be a more natural tall forward but he should also be a more than capable ruckman.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Hill's an interesting one. A sleeper there on the list with no one really talking about him anywhere.
Has he got the talent? He's just a big mystery to me.

[macca]

wheather Will has a will, there is a way

[F'scary]

MAKE OR BREAK YEAR 2012:
Will Minson (number 1 or the road!)
Jarryd Grant (former number 5 draft pick has confidence problems. Sheesh!)
Brian Lake (much decorated but in 2011 won only the Matthew Newton award for professional attitude)
Ryan Hargraves (as a bard once wrote "gather ye rosebuds while ye may... what's that - there's none left?")
Nathan Djerrkura (he's got some of it: pace and strength but ball skills need a heck of a lot of work - I'm being polite)
Ayce Cordy (still the Ugly Duckling but AFL ain't Hans Christian Anderson, baby)
Ed Barlow (well, he looks like a footballer but... More kindly, he plays like the Concorde: always takes off in a woosh but needs a lot of runway to pull up.)

GONE:
Lindsay Gilbee

[AndrewP6]

MAKE OR BREAK YEAR 2012:
Will Minson (number 1 or the road!)
Jarryd Grant (former number 5 draft pick has confidence problems. Sheesh!)
Brian Lake (much decorated but in 2011 won only the Matthew Newton award for professional attitude)
Ryan Hargraves (as a bard once wrote "gather ye rosebuds while ye may... what's that - there's none left?")
Nathan Djerrkura (he's got some of it: pace and strength but ball skills need a heck of a lot of work - I'm being polite)
Ayce Cordy (still the Ugly Duckling but AFL ain't Hans Christian Anderson, baby)
Ed Barlow (well, he looks like a footballer but... More kindly, he plays like the Concorde: always takes off in a woosh but needs a lot of runway to pull up.)

GONE:
Lindsay Gilbee Barlow shouldn't be in the make or break section. He's already gone!

[Sockeye Salmon]

MAKE OR BREAK YEAR 2012:
Will Minson (number 1 or the road!)
Jarryd Grant (former number 5 draft pick has confidence problems. Sheesh!)
Brian Lake (much decorated but in 2011 won only the Matthew Newton award for professional attitude)
Ryan Hargraves (as a bard once wrote "gather ye rosebuds while ye may... what's that - there's none left?")
Nathan Djerrkura (he's got some of it: pace and strength but ball skills need a heck of a lot of work - I'm being polite)
Ayce Cordy (still the Ugly Duckling but AFL ain't Hans Christian Anderson, baby)
Ed Barlow (well, he looks like a footballer but... More kindly, he plays like the Concorde: always takes off in a woosh but needs a lot of runway to pull up.)

GONE:
Lindsay Gilbee

Anyone who puts an 's' on the end of Hargrave has no credibility here

[Maddog37]

Bit harsh SS.

[Bulldog4life]

Anyone who puts an 's' on the end of Hargrave has no credibility here

Wouldn't say that. Heck I'm still seeing Smorgon spelt Smorgan from regular posters.
We don't want to discourage the newbies from contributing.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Not sure if he's in the 'make or break' category but I would hope that Tom Williams has a very big year.
And starts contributing substantially week in week out. Maybe even a brownlow vote and one or two BOG's wouldn't hurt.

[Mantis]

Not sure if he's in the 'make or break' category but I would hope that Tom Williams has a very big year.
And starts contributing substantially week in week out. Maybe even a brownlow vote and one or two BOG's wouldn't hurt.

When did Tom become a midfielder?

They're the only players who can get a vote in said award.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Bit harsh SS.

Yeah, probably was.

Over-reaction to the Matthew Newton remark about Lake.

[LostDoggy]

Hill's an interesting one. A sleeper there on the list with no one really talking about him anywhere.
Has he got the talent? He's just a big mystery to me.

I think he has got talent. In the limited times I saw him last year he showed glimpses. One thing I did notice a couple of times, perhaps to his detriment, is he seems to have a bit of a temper. He blew up a couple of times at team mates (Zeph and other young forwards) for seemingly innocuous mistakes.

Looking forward to seeing his progression this season if he can stay fit. Seems he'll have a fair bit of competiton in the tall-KP area down forward, even if Panos plays regular seniors.

[Mantis]

I would include Skinner into this group.

Was shown to be a fair way off last season and one would think he would need to be a big improver to earn a new contract.

[F'scary]

Yeah, probably was.

Over-reaction to the Matthew Newton remark about Lake.

For Newtons or for Lakes?

[mjp]

For Newtons or for Lakes?

Lake was INJURED.

Why is everyone so determined to say he was unprofessional in 2011? If he truly was just 'messing about', his team-mates would not have been defending him in interviews all season long. Everyone I heard said he was doing it 'tough' and post-season there has been a big 'get Brian back to his best' response from the playing group.

As for what Montgomery said, that was a frustrated coach who was under pressure and wanted his best player back...

[Sedat]

Lake was INJURED.

Why is everyone so determined to say he was unprofessional in 2011? If he truly was just 'messing about', his team-mates would not have been defending him in interviews all season long. Everyone I heard said he was doing it 'tough' and post-season there has been a big 'get Brian back to his best' response from the playing group.

As for what Montgomery said, that was a frustrated coach who was under pressure and wanted his best player back...
THIS.

He went stride for stride with Scarlett from 2008 to 2010 (some would say he surpassed Scarlett in 2009-10) and was regularly one of our best finals performers in that time (only behind Griff). His 2011 was frankly crap, which started all the way back to his pre-season and the bunch of surgeries he had after the PF in 2010. But at peak fitness he is in our best 3 players on the list and is probably our most vital player structurally. We are so much better with him fit and in form it isn't funny.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I would include Skinner into this group.

Was shown to be a fair way off last season and one would think he would need to be a big improver to earn a new contract.

I agree with this.

Skinner is a player that may need 4 years of development before you make a realistic judgement, but we don't have 4 years to 'play around' with like a Collingwood/Geelong.

Also depends how many players are delisted/retired. At a guess - Gilbee, Mulligan and Hooper are the three most likely to be moved on. Skinner and Addison would be next. Moles would want to be injury free.

[Sockeye Salmon]

For Newtons or for Lakes?

Lake was mis-diagnosed.

After 3 lots of surgery and no pre-season, Lake knew something was still wrong with his body.

The doctors said he was OK but he knew he wasn't. He tried to play anyway, despite telling them he wasn't right. He was told to toughen up (he was having injections to train, FFS).

Later in the year they find out Lake was right all along and he goes in for another lot of surgery.

Attitude my arse. He tried to play hurt and physically couldn't do it.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Lake was mis-diagnosed.

After 3 lots of surgery and no pre-season, Lake knew something was still wrong with his body.

The doctors said he was OK but he knew he wasn't. He tried to play anyway, despite telling them he wasn't right. He was told to toughen up (he was having injections to train, FFS).

Later in the year they find out Lake was right all along and he goes in for another lot of surgery.

Attitude my arse. He tried to play hurt and physically couldn't do it.

I am firmly in Brian's corner.

[Remi Moses]

The media ran with this all season .
Lake's unhappy he's certain to be traded!
Make or break for the following
Addison ( lucky to be retained)
Mulligan( see above)
Moles( a fringe player only)
Cordy ( who? ) needs a good run at it
Minson ( seven seasons, number one gig and no more excuses)
Higgins( needs to be more consistent, and more intensity)
Hargraves( oops sorry!) another injury plagued year, Shaggy's goneski)
Gilbee ( really needs a lift, looks cooked)
Honarable mentions Sherman , DJ and Vezspremi.
Going to be intrigued whether or not some will survive the new regime.

[GVGjr]

I would include Skinner into this group.

Was shown to be a fair way off last season and one would think he would need to be a big improver to earn a new contract.

Agree. He has a long way to go and I never quite understood why we picked him for the game in Canberra and had him as a sub for 3 quarters.
I'm told he is vastly fitter than 12 months ago (he obviously should be) and that he should be able to improve in 2012.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I know it's hard with list sizes etc but I'd like to see us persevere for longer with someone like Skinner.
He's obviously got the latent talent. Confidence and conditioning are the missing pieces.

We persevered with guys like Mulligan and Addison for years and years.
Someone with Skinners background and potential deserves the same, if not more, commitment.

[Ghost Dog]

I know it's hard with list sizes etc but I'd like to see us persevere for longer with someone like Skinner.
He's obviously got the latent talent. Confidence and conditioning are the missing pieces.

We persevered with guys like Mulligan and Addison for years and years.
Someone with Skinners background and potential deserves the same, if not more, commitment.


Brad Dick, Liam Jarrah, these skinny type of bodies find it hard to shine for being injury free.
Not writing him off but indications are the New regime - ( " We will err on the side of toughness" ) might not be prepared to persevere.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I know it's hard with list sizes etc but I'd like to see us persevere for longer with someone like Skinner.
He's obviously got the latent talent. Confidence and conditioning are the missing pieces.

We persevered with guys like Mulligan and Addison for years and years.
Someone with Skinners background and potential deserves the same, if not more, commitment.

If Skinner played 0 AFL games in 2012, but consolidated himself in the Williamstown Seniors and had a good consistent year, that would be a good result.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Brad Dick, Liam Jarrah, these skinny type of bodies find it hard to shine for being injury free.
Not writing him off but indications are the New regime - ( " We will err on the side of toughness" ) might not be prepared to persevere.

Kevin Bartlett and Michael Tuck might have something to say on the matter

[EasternWest]

Lake was INJURED.

Bears repeating.

[Ghost Dog]

Kevin Bartlett and Michael Tuck might have something to say on the matter

Hey Good points. But in my defence, both of them were absolute freaks ;)
I hope Skinner gets his chance I really do.

[Maddog37]

Bears repeating.


Bear can do that.........:D

[Mofra]

Agree. He has a long way to go and I never quite understood why we picked him for the game in Canberra and had him as a sub for 3 quarters.
I'm told he is vastly fitter than 12 months ago (he obviously should be) and that he should be able to improve in 2012.
Vastly fitter is a good thing, but knowing where (and when) to run seemed to be something he struggled with at times too.

[LostDoggy]

I am firmly in Brian's corner.

As we all should be until proven wrong.

[jeemak]

As we all should be until proven wrong.

There's room for keeping an open mind with respect to Brian's rehab, his performances, his comments and those of the coaching staff.

I hope Brian bounces back to become the player we all know he can, I'm also prepared to keep an open mind with respect to how he approached his rehab in the first place and that he might not have been managed as well as he should have been by the medical staff.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Will Will's will be done?

Willie Makeit. Betty Will.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I agree with most of the attached comments, but thought i would look at it from a different perspective.

Based on age how long should we hang onto the guys over 29?
Gilbee & Hargrave are both 32yo this year.
Lake, Gia, Murphy, Boyd, Morris are all 30yo this year.
With Cross 29yo this year.

With a couple of injuries any of these guys could be gone, only Boyd would be safe IMO with Gilbee & Hargrave this is the last year for them, Lake and Morris have big injury concerns and Murphy has knee problems that could catch up with him at any time. That leave Gia and Cross, Gia may not be tough enough and Cross the way he plays anything could happen.

The above may save a few of the other young, fitter and faster boys like Moles, DJ etc

[AndrewP6]

Gilbee & Hargrave are both 32yo this year.


Both will turn 31 in July.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I agree with most of the attached comments, but thought i would look at it from a different perspective.

Based on age how long should we hang onto the guys over 29?
Gilbee & Hargrave are both 32yo this year.
Lake, Gia, Murphy, Boyd, Morris are all 30yo this year.
With Cross 29yo this year.

With a couple of injuries any of these guys could be gone, only Boyd would be safe IMO with Gilbee & Hargrave this is the last year for them, Lake and Morris have big injury concerns and Murphy has knee problems that could catch up with him at any time. That leave Gia and Cross, Gia may not be tough enough and Cross the way he plays anything could happen.

The above may save a few of the other young, fitter and faster boys like Moles, DJ etc

You raise some very good points, but I can't agree with the bolded. Gia's hips aren't the best though, so I think he probably has 2 years left.

Agree that Gilbee and Hargrave are on their last legs. We certainly have a few too many older heads, which is why I thought we should have traded Cross at the end of 2010.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

We certainly have a few too many older heads, which is why I thought we should have traded Cross at the end of 2010.

I think that we all know Cross will put his body on the line and take the bashing for the younger blokes any day of the week. With Ward leaving i think they need Cross just in case the young blokes like Libba, Wallis etc need another year to be able to handle a full year of AFL in the middle.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Both will turn 31 in July.

Sorry my mistake.

[turtle]

[QUOTE=The Bulldogs Bite;253986]. We certainly have a few too many older heads, which is why I thought we should have traded Cross at the end of 2010.[/QUOTE

I understand the point that you are making, and it's a valid point in the world of running a professional sporting business.

I must admit though that I find it very uncomfortable talking about some of these guys the way we do. Crossy is one of the heart and sole players (like Picken, Boyd, Libba version 1 etc) Whilst loyalty does seem to be out the door these days, I would rather have these guys for life, then turn themover just when their perceived usefullness is reduced. The example that these guys set is worth more than the benefit of trading them off just as they get closer to 30. If we can get the young guys follow the lead that Crossy (& Boydy) set then I believe we will have a net gain keeping these guys.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I must admit though that I find it very uncomfortable talking about some of these guys the way we do. Crossy is one of the heart and sole players (like Picken, Boyd, Libba version 1 etc) Whilst loyalty does seem to be out the door these days, I would rather have these guys for life, then turn themover just when their perceived usefullness is reduced. The example that these guys set is worth more than the benefit of trading them off just as they get closer to 30. If we can get the young guys follow the lead that Crossy (& Boydy) set then I believe we will have a net gain keeping these guys.

Just my 2 cents worth.

No doubt that Cross is a fantastic role model and I wasn't a fan of tradinh im because he was nearing 30 or anything like that. At the time, he still had 3 (maybe 4) years left. However, I thought we had too many of his kind who were better ball handlers and/or distributors.

Funny though. With Ward leaving, he's obviously needed.

Crossy would definitely be one of the most courageous players I've seen play the game.

[LostDoggy]

[QUOTE=The Bulldogs Bite;253986]. We certainly have a few too many older heads, which is why I thought we should have traded Cross at the end of 2010.[/QUOTE

I understand the point that you are making, and it's a valid point in the world of running a professional sporting business.

I must admit though that I find it very uncomfortable talking about some of these guys the way we do. Crossy is one of the heart and sole players (like Picken, Boyd, Libba version 1 etc) Whilst loyalty does seem to be out the door these days, I would rather have these guys for life, then turn themover just when their perceived usefullness is reduced. The example that these guys set is worth more than the benefit of trading them off just as they get closer to 30. If we can get the young guys follow the lead that Crossy (& Boydy) set then I believe we will have a net gain keeping these guys.

Just my 2 cents worth.

It's also an example to the team: put it on the line and we'll stick by you, even if you are 30 years old.

[DragzLS1]

Crossy sets a great example not only for the younger players, for all of them, leads time trials every year even though he is "old" and puts his body on the line. I dont see why we would want to trade him.. Need more like this in the team imo.

And as BornAScragger said, if they put it all on the line no matter what age we will stick by them.

[G-Mo77]

I'd hate to trade any players who have been here for a long period of time away just because they are getting close or past the 30 year mark (apart from one). When looking at our list we still rely very heavily on this age group of players we have and quite frankly it is very worrying. If we lose them all at once we are going to go close to bottoming out altogether. That being said I'd feel sick seeing someone like Cross or Murphy running around in another jumper. It's probably something all AFL fans should get prepared for with free agency.

Big high five to Griff though!

[BulldogBelle]

How can we expect loyalty come Free Agency if we are talking about trading away the likes of Cross

We are better off simply retiring a loyal and consistent player like him when the time comes - like Melbourne did with James McDonald

[AndrewP6]

How can we expect loyalty come Free Agency if we are talking about trading away the likes of Cross

We are better off simply retiring a loyal and consistent player like him when the time comes - like Melbourne did with James McDonald

You mean forcing him into retirement when he wants to go on? ;)

[Sockeye Salmon]

You mean forcing him into retirement when he wants to go on? ;)

Every footballer gets forced into retirement when they want to go on.

No-one wants to give up $300-400K a year, especially when they have zero prospects to do anything else.

[Sedat]

Not necessarily make or break, but I am fascinated by how Shaun Higgins will perform under the McCartney regime. He has been something of an annointed one all through Rocket's tenure, even joining the leadership group before he really earned the promotion. Injuries haven't helped him throughout his career but he has definitely stalled in his development at the kennel, and bad habits have crept into his game (notably his one-way running and poor defensive efforts). He has elite skill and talent, so I hope that he will thrive under the new challenges set by McCartney and also that his body will not let him down as it has done at inopportune moments in the past.

I keep going back to the comment made by Marc Murphy, who stated that Higgins was the best midfielder he played against at TAC Cup level. It would be a massive shame if his talent was not able to thrive long-term at the kennel, but he has been little more than a tease in his career to date. He really needs to stamp his authority all over the 2012 season.

[Ghost Dog]

Not necessarily make or break, but I am fascinated by how Shaun Higgins will perform under the McCartney regime. He has been something of an annointed one all through Rocket's tenure, even joining the leadership group before he really earned the promotion. Injuries haven't helped him throughout his career but he has definitely stalled in his development at the kennel, and bad habits have crept into his game (notably his one-way running and poor defensive efforts). He has elite skill and talent, so I hope that he will thrive under the new challenges set by McCartney and also that his body will not let him down as it has done at inopportune moments in the past.

I keep going back to the comment made by Marc Murphy, who stated that Higgins was the best midfielder he played against at TAC Cup level. It would be a massive shame if his talent was not able to thrive long-term at the kennel, but he has been little more than a tease in his career to date. He really needs to stamp his authority all over the 2012 season.

I feel the same about Tom Williams. I talked to him down at Crown one day and he seemed really down to earth, but maybe lacking a bit of confidence in himself. With a good teacher type at the helm, I reckon he'll grow a few feet, metaphorically speaking. Can't wait to see the effect of the new coach on a number of players

[boydogs]

Later in the year they find out Lake was right all along and he goes in for another lot of surgery.

Any reports on how he is doing now?

[stefoid]

I feel the same about Tom Williams. I talked to him down at Crown one day and he seemed really down to earth, but maybe lacking a bit of confidence in himself. With a good teacher type at the helm, I reckon he'll grow a few feet, metaphorically speaking. Can't wait to see the effect of the new coach on a number of players

Some bad luck with injuries have him 2 years behind where he should be.

If we didnt already have Tom on the list, we would be looking to trade for someone just like him - a physically ready tall, mid-age player who fulfils a need and has the potential for continued improvement.