NAB Cup - Round #1 - Bulldogs vs Giants and Magpies

[GVGjr]

I'm not a fan of this format but we have been starved of football for too long so it will have my undivided attention tonight.

I'm interested to see how Hargrave performs tonight but mainly I will be focused on the likes of Smith, Dickson, Howard and Panos.

What are your expectations from this first outing in 2012?

[the banker]

I am interested in how he sets us up, especially forward.
Minson, Roughead and Cordy performances around the ground
Excited to see Libba and also have a look at Smith, Talia and Dickson

[bornadog]

I am hoping we are not embarrassed by getting beaten by GWS, otherwise the only interest is in the inexperienced players and seeing how they perform.

[AndrewP6]

My expectations are no one gets hurt. OK, I'm also interested to see what Smith and Dickson can do.

But mostly that no one gets hurt. :)

[Maddog37]

I want to see how Griff, jones and Dollhouse look. To me they are the exciting players on our list playing tonight.

Keen to watch Libba too. He is just brilliant and so natural.

[Go_Dogs]

My expectations are for a fairly scrappy couple of games and I don't think we'll see anything too out of the ordinary. I actually think we'll win both games but that doesn't mean much given the opposition.

The main points of interest for me will be seeing the new/inexperienced players in action, seeing how some players go in different positions and seeing how we go fitting a number of taller players into the side and how they rotate, where they rest etc.

[Greystache]

Like many others I will interested in how Smith goes, I'll also be interested to see if Jones is genuinely our primary target in the forward line and whether the players look for him first every time.

I'm also interested in seeing our game plan in action. Despite having watched a lot of the preseason, I'm still not sure what our approach is going to be.

[Eastdog]

Good to have the footy back. For me Ill be seeing how the new recruits go and hope that we don't get any injuries and setbacks as AndrewP6 said. Does anyone know if Matthew Panos will feature tonight.

[Ghost Dog]

Win. every game we can, Nab or regular season. Bring on a new Era of Dogs dominance!
By the way, how crap are Hawthorn NAB jersey and Richmond's also?

[LostDoggy]

By the way, how crap are Hawthorn NAB jersey and Richmond's also?

Yes and People are complaining about ours. It's the same basic design as our regular one instead adding silly emblems or animals and it's still all our colours instead of having to add white.

[JohnGentStand]

BRING IT ON ! excited to see Dickson and hopefully Panos too.
I would also love to see something from Cordy to suggest he could play a role this year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Interested to see how Cordy plays. Looked like he belonged in the intra club, this is the perfect chance to show that again against two weakened sides in the NAB cup.

Also eager to see Panos, Dickson and our forward structure.

[cinder]

I thought someone was joking on Woof when they posted something about 'Easton Ward' in another thread. I noticed the AFL have actually published we have a player of that name playing tonight!

WESTERN BULLDOGS
1. Jarrad Grant, 2. Robert Murphy, 3. Mitch Wallis, 4. Daniel Cross, 5. Matthew Boyd, 8. Patrick Veszpremi, 10. Easton Wood, 12. Tom Williams, 13. Daniel Giansiracusa, 14. Clay Smith, 16. Ryan Griffen, 19. Liam Jones, 21. Tom Liberatore, 22. Dylan Addison, 23. Jordan Roughead, 25. Ryan Hargrave, 26. Zephaniah Skinner, 27. Will Minson, 29. Tory Dickson, 30. Christian Howard, 32, Michael Talia, 37. Lukas Markovic, 40. Luke Dahlhaus, 42, Liam Picken, 48. Matthew Panos, 49. Ayce Cordy

[divvydan]

From WB Twitter, Grant and Williams to sit out first game, Howard and Panos to be subs for first game. There should be two others missing first game.

[jazzadogs]

Howard and Panos subs for game 1. Williams and Grant will only play game 2. from Twitter


Edit: divvydan beat me to it. Here is the (link (https://twitter.com/#!/Bulldogs_Live)) if anyone wants to follow.

[divvydan]

Going from AFL site, I think Murphy and Roughead will be the other two to miss the first game but waiting for confirmation.

[GVGjr]

Gee Griffen needs to lift his intensity. Cordy has done a couple of nice things

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think GWS have done well so far. They seem alot more hungry and are pressuring our ball carrier's well. It's really only our bigger bodies at the contest that we've got a decided advantage from.

[LostDoggy]

Gws's Goal was an umpiring gift.

[chef]

Red jumper against a orange one, that's smart.

Hope we never wear it again, it looks horrible.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Not really sure what our plan is at the moment.

[GVGjr]

Not really sure what our plan is at the moment.
Very confusing, our skill level isn't clean and we don't have a lot of dash.

[AndrewP6]

I know it's early days, but it doesn't look like anything has changed.

[AndrewP6]

Red jumper against a orange one, that's smart.

Hope we never wear it again, it looks horrible.

Too true, the red with the white shorts is dreadful.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We caught a lucky break with that free after Cross had kicked a goal, sealing the result. By and large we've looked very sloppy and lacking a bit of focus, notwithstanding it's our first hit out of the year.

[GVGjr]

Too true, the red with the white shorts is dreadful.

There is enough threads about the jumper colors so we don't need to be going over it again on the match day thread.

[AndrewP6]

There is enough threads about the jumper colors so we don't need to be going over it again on the match day thread.

It's a comment about what they're wearing on game day.

[GVGjr]

It's a comment about what they're wearing on game day.

We simply don't need to debate it again

[aker39]

Someone please shoot Dwayne Russell.

[GVGjr]

That could have been embarrassing. A very lackluster effort.

[AndrewP6]

Nothing in that to suggest anything will be different this year, IMO. Early days, yes, but we should have killed that mob - and we very nearly blew it.

[LostDoggy]

Someone please shoot Dwayne Russell.

A number of times. You would expect a commentator to have some intelligence.

[Chicago1]

Meh. :rolleyes:

I stayed up for that?

[LostDoggy]

Wallis worries me. Makes too many mistakes.

[Pickenitup]

The first hitout is always sloppy i think we will perform alot better in the second half tonight

[giaco]

Wallis worries me. Makes too many mistakes.

Like every time he touches it.

I feel very deflated at the moment.

[azabob]

Nothing in that to suggest anything will be different this year, IMO. Early days, yes, but we should have killed that mob - and we very nearly blew it.

Didn't Gold coast win a couple of theses games last year?

[Go_Dogs]

Not a great showing, but not at all concerned. Most look to just be cruising.

[GVGjr]

I didn't have high hopes from a footy standards perspective but that was disappointing. I'm sure we can lift the work rate against the Pies.

[Pickenitup]

Gold Coast beat the Swans last year by a kick

[AndrewP6]

Didn't Gold coast win a couple of theses games last year?

Dunno. What I do know is they looked no different to 2011.

[GVGjr]

Who did we rate as the positives? Veszpremi looked OK at times.

[the banker]

Wallis worries me. Makes too many mistakes.

Procrastinates and then execution below average

[AndrewP6]

Zeph did a few good things (and also took off for the customary "Jump high and hope" marking attempt!), and Jones took some strong grabs.

[comrade]

Nothing in that to suggest anything will be different this year, IMO. Early days, yes, but we should have killed that mob - and we very nearly blew it.

Remind me how we went in last year's NAB Cup? How did that translate to the real stuff?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Not a great showing, but not at all concerned. Most look to just be cruising.

The sloppiness at this time of year I can live with, but there didn't appear to be a whole lot of energy.

But for the extra goal from the gimme free kick, we would've lost against a side comprised mainly of kids who have never played against an AFL outfit before and who would've been quite nervous. We should've won quite easy, instead we scraped over the line.

[LostDoggy]

Positives. Zeph skinner. Libba. We won

[LostDoggy]

Why we considering our gift goal when Gws got at least 2?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Remind me how we went in last year's NAB Cup? How did that translate to the real stuff?

Agree. I don't think it is a barometer for the real stuff. It's still disappointing to see us play so poorly in our first hit out from a supporters point of view, irrespective of the format.

[AndrewP6]

Remind me how we went in last year's NAB Cup? How did that translate to the real stuff?

You're entitled to your confidence, I'm entitled to my lack thereof.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Positives. Zeph skinner. Libba. We won

Thought Shaggy looked good too.

[Greystache]

Great goal by Boyd, made Buckley look like an under 16.

[Greystache]

Vez looked good.

Skinner showed a bit.

Boyd got plenty.

Not much else.

[Greystache]

Talia's hands are concerning, hopefully it's just first game terrors.

[Greystache]

Did someone forget to bring the grippo? Cannot handle the pill.

[Ghost Dog]

Foward line? Atrocious decision making at times. Minsons last handball to murphy ! Wtf

[Greystache]

Remind me how we went in last year's NAB Cup? How did that translate to the real stuff?

We lost round 1 and were eliminated. Pretty much set the trend for our season.

[GVGjr]

Thought Shaggy looked good too.

He moved well but made a lot of errors. Still I guess it was encouraging.

[Go_Dogs]

Addison a positive for me thus far.

[Prince Imperial]

I'm surprised to say this, but Addison has been one of the few positives so far tonight.

[giaco]

Howard has looked ok. Boyd dominating. Shaggy is back in form.

[Prince Imperial]

Addison a positive for me thus far.

We think alike.

[Remi Moses]

People looking for a game plan in a Nab cup match, is like looking for the proverbial needle in a hay stack.
Gold Coast beat Sydney last year.
Recall being hammered by Essendon when Knights took over.We finished third they finished nowhere. Guess the moral of the story is don't read to much into these games.

[bornadog]

Good to see Hargrave playing well, LIbba has had plenty of the ball, Minson playing well, Boyd, Cross the usual big possessions. Forward line entry is pretty woeful, but we seem to be defending well.

[choconmientay]

How is Minson going in the ruck guys?

[Ghost Dog]

Crap defensive effort to let a goal float thru. Good spot Cross to Liam Jones to reply.

[Greystache]

Good to see our defending on the goal line is still atrocious.

[GVGjr]

Good to see our defending on the goal line is still atrocious.

They just lose their way time and time again

[Chicago1]

Meh. :rolleyes:

I stayed up for that?

Ditto.

[Greystache]

They just lose their way time and time again

Plus we never have extra numbers to prevent us being shepherded out of the contest. Very frustrating, such a basic thing.

[the banker]

Need a back line general. Brian!

[Bulldog4life]

People looking for a game plan in a Nab cup match, is like looking for the proverbial needle in a hay stack.
Gold Coast beat Sydney last year.
Recall being hammered by Essendon when Knights took over.We finished third they finished nowhere. Guess the moral of the story is don't read to much into these games.

Agree. This is pyjama footy. Two twenty minute halves. New rules. Impossible to get a handle on how the team is going. I'll reserve my judgement.

[Ghost Dog]

Looking at that play, it was williams who was waltzing back to the line. It's a pity as he had done some some good things as well.

Just not dangerous enough in the forward line.

[bornadog]

Agree. This is pyjama footy. Two twenty minute halves. New rules. Impossible to get a handle on how the team is going. I'll reserve my judgement.

Yep just a practise match

[the banker]

Really didn't like the out of bounds rule.

[Scraggers]

Not sure if this has been said already, but I can't see how our game plan changed from last year ??

[LostDoggy]

Looking at that play, it was williams who was waltzing back to the line. It's a pity as he had done some some good things as well.

Just not dangerous enough in the forward line.

Just a practice match I know, but just wondering who are forwardline targets are? Our forwards either looked work in progress or too slow. Thought it was interesting that Grant just took the abuse from Shaw. I hope we bring atleast some mongrel to the season proper

[GVGjr]

I thought Minson showed a bit tonight. He just has to stand up and be counted this season.

[Pickenitup]

How is that Dwayne Russell pretty much said Bar Cooney Lake and Higgins against GWS this is pretty much the best Dogs side how bout Murphy Morris Gilbee Williams Sherman the Fox team was so negative to Us Tonite

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We probably avoided the corridor a little, going a bit wider than we have in the past. Other than that, not a lot to take out of that "game plan" wise. But really -- NAB cup games are always like this. You get excited for the return of footy, but it usually deflates you because they are always so scrappy.

I thought Cordy looked OK. He competed well and his second efforts were solid. Definitely looks a better player than previous seasons.

Minson and Roughy were solid, which was good to see.

Boyd was phenomenal, Gia was a class above and Cross was solid until the end. His pace is a huge concern.

Howard did a couple of nice things.

Veszpremi looks dangerous across half back -- think he's found a position.

Maybe the biggest positive was Zeph; he was the most lively out there, got a fair bit of the ball and moved really well.

All in all though, not a lot can be taken from that game. Our skill level is probably the worst in the competition still.

[Eastdog]

Liam Jones is a player that can be very good down the track. He is a very good contested mark. One aspect of his game that he can improve is his kicking. Zeph Skinner in the game against GWS showed his skill but we'll have a better indication of him when we play against a stronger opponent. NAB Cup I think is unpredictable on who will win.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How is that Dwayne Russell pretty much said Bar Cooney Lake and Higgins against GWS this is pretty much the best Dogs side how bout Murphy Morris Gilbee Williams Sherman the Fox team was so negative to Us Tonite

They CONSTANTLY said this.

"The dogs would be a scared" was muttered a few times too.

WTF?

It's pre-season you morons.

[Remi Moses]

GWS are leading Collingwood at half time!
Plenty to read into these games isn't there:rolleyes:

[Eastdog]

They CONSTANTLY said this.

"The dogs would be a scared" was muttered a few times too.

WTF?

It's pre-season you morons.

Could not agree more. They need to realise its only pre season and you can't take that much out of the game.

[Eastdog]

Still think Collingwood will win but would not be surprised if GWS win. This is giving GWS a false sense of security. They are still yet to play a proper full match.

[Grantysghost]

Serious lack of leg speed is a concern.Sans Cooney look very slow. Like the look of Smith .

[Remi Moses]

Gerard Healy keeps waffling on about how many "senior" players are in the teams.
My experience of these games are that the senior players perhaps don't go an extra gear in this comp.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Almost feel like I am intentionally picking on the kid, but Wallis was beyond dreadful again. He fumbles a lot and his disposal by both foot and hand is really, really bad.

I hope he can turn this around.

[Remi Moses]

They CONSTANTLY said this.

"The dogs would be a scared" was muttered a few times too.

WTF?

It's pre-season you morons.

Just watched the game against the manufactured AFL Plastics
The GWS cheersquad ( sorry commentators) "Another lucky break for the Dogs"
( As Veszpremi puts his arm back in it's socket) Another " Break" ( as Wallis cops one around the shoulder)Fair Dinkum Russell mentions our "Only" outs 40 times and forgets someone called Dale Morris.
End Rant:mad:

[Remi Moses]

Almost feel like I am intentionally picking on the kid, but Wallis was beyond dreadful again. He fumbles a lot and his disposal by both foot and hand is really, really bad.

I hope he can turn this around.

Noticed that tonight, that kick on the wing that went out of bounds was awful.
He need to improve his disposal by hand and foot quickly.

[GVGjr]

Almost feel like I am intentionally picking on the kid, but Wallis was beyond dreadful again. He fumbles a lot and his disposal by both foot and hand is really, really bad.

I hope he can turn this around.

We should expect better from him than what he has displayed. We knew before we drafted him that he wasn't a speedster nor did he have a penetrating kick but his decision making and therefore handball etc should be very effective.

Of course we make allowances for him because of his age but like a lot of youngsters I'd like to see him improve throughout the season.

[Greystache]

Almost feel like I am intentionally picking on the kid, but Wallis was beyond dreadful again. He fumbles a lot and his disposal by both foot and hand is really, really bad.

I hope he can turn this around.

He's also really slow, not just by foot but of mind too, he really struggles to make decisions quickly. He may be a late developer like Matthew Boyd, but I think he'll play a lot at Williamstown the next year or two.

[Sedat]

It was a hot and humid night that made for even sloppier football than you get during the early rounds of the NAB Cup. Actually reminded me of Darwin matches, which are also quite poor from a ball handling perspective. Pies were every bit as sloppy as us. I actually thought our ball movement from defence was good on occasions but was let down by the final ball into forward 50.

Boyd was outstanding - BOG in the Pies match by a mile. How slow did Cross look chasing that greyhound Dawes?

[Greystache]

Boyd was outstanding - BOG in the Pies match by a mile. How slow did Cross look chasing that greyhound Dawes?

A couple of us were debating this tonight, is Daniel Cross the slowest player currently in the AFL?

The only players we came up with that would be close

Brock Maclean
Aaron Sandilands

[jazzadogs]

Not overly concerned. Plenty of things that weren't promising, but Hargrave, Vez, Skinner, Boyd, Cross, Jones, Minson (and others) still showed a bit.

Game plan is not going to all of a sudden be perfect, or even change that much. As we have all said, this year is going to be a development year and if we get some success then that is an added bonus.

The development is not going to be purely in the skills of the players etc, but also in the gameplan. McCartney will be planning to develop his gameplan as his players develop, not just suddenly change everything. And in a scratch match, it's even less likely that we'll notice any difference.

Geelong didn't become a powerhouse overnight. Bring on the next game.

[LostDoggy]

Not overly concerned. Plenty of things that weren't promising, but Hargrave, Vez, Skinner, Boyd, Cross, Jones, Minson (and others) still showed a bit.

Game plan is not going to all of a sudden be perfect, or even change that much. As we have all said, this year is going to be a development year and if we get some success then that is an added bonus.

The development is not going to be purely in the skills of the players etc, but also in the gameplan. McCartney will be planning to develop his gameplan as his players develop, not just suddenly change everything. And in a scratch match, it's even less likely that we'll notice any difference.

Geelong didn't become a powerhouse overnight. Bring on the next game.

Wish I had your optimism. I could only listen to it on the radio but execution sounded horribly sloppy and our forward entries seemed to constantly be "jones goes for a pack mark against three others and can't quite take it". The seniors obviously good but there seems to be far to little depth of skill or pace coming up behind. Skinner And Cordy obvious potential but not enough exiting new comers to have much hope this year. Development only from what I see and use those 5 picks on pace and skill next draft.

[Dry Rot]

I watched this game, not concerned about whether we won or lost, but how we played and most importantly for indicators that things have changed from past seasons.

While some of our tackles didn't stick too well, we did seem mostly to contest the ball well.

Without Lake and Morris, our backline did quite well and Williams and Hargrave were quite pleasing.

I thought our rucks were okay and Minson and Roughead did a bit more around the ground.

We also seemed quite disciplined in slowly and surely taking the ball up out of defence.

However, it seems to me that a lot of bad stuff from past seasons remain. Cross is no faster, and Boyd's disposal is no better.

In the Collingwood game, I thought our forward defensive pressure was pretty poor and the Pies pretty well got the ball out of there as they wished. It seemed very easy for them to find a loose man around the boundary and clear the ball.

Greatest disappointment for me was what happened when we brought the ball out of defence and got to the middle ground.

It is hard to tell whether the midfield or the forwards were at fault, and whether it was predominantly poor delivery or poor leading but we showed the same lack of full forward structure and system of previous recent seasons.

It seemed that most times when we got the ball to the middle of the ground we just said a Hail Mary and bombed it forward, with a poor result which was compounded by a subsequent lack of forward defensive pressure which was disappointing.

[GVGjr]

Some of the positives for me out of the two games were -
Boyd - For his effort across the two games
Veszpremi - Has added another string to his bow and doesn't look out of place as a defender.
Cordy - I've been impatient with his development but he looked OK last night and did some nice things
Hargrave - Made plenty of errors but looks fit and moved very well.
Howard - Not direct enough last night preferring short chip kicks but there is a bit to work with.
Minson - Hard to fault him. We need a big year from Will
Markovic - Solid effort
Murphy - Looked very classy in the game against the Pies
Others to stand out -
Giansiracusa, Liberatore, Picken and Roughead

[The Doctor]

Some of the positives for me out of the two games were -
Boyd - For his effort across the two games
Veszpremi - Has added another string to his bow and doesn't look out of place as a defender.
Cordy - I've been impatient with his development but he looked OK last night and did some nice things
Hargrave - Made plenty of errors but looks fit and moved very well.
Howard - Not direct enough last night preferring short chip kicks but there is a bit to work with.
Minson - Hard to fault him. We need a big year from Will
Markovic - Solid effort
Murphy - Looked very classy in the game against the Pies
Others to stand out -
Giansiracusa, Liberatore, Picken and Roughead

Agree with most of that.

I thought the Minson/Roughead combo was the most pleasing thing to come out of the night. some great tap work and good efforts around the ground. A fit Cooney running off them would make a huge difference.

Libba's inside work is elite. In my mind he has made Cross redundant.

I didn't mind Addison's efforts. Still no polish but plenty of endeavour. Would love to see him improve his ball skills.

Overall, we looked very one paced around the ground and a lot of sameness. no run or dash and not much enterprise bar Murphy. I was disappointed we were chipping the ball around half back in the Pies game when we were 7 points down with 2-3 minutes to play. Also agree with DR about the way the ball was easily brought out from our forward line.

What I would like to see is some more pace around the middle of the ground. I think with Minson/Roughead working with Libba, Cooney and Boyd there is plenty of ball winning ability. I wouldn't mind trying players like Gilbee and Murphy around the wings to run off them.

[Ghost Dog]

Some of the positives for me out of the two games were -
Boyd - For his effort across the two games
Veszpremi - Has added another string to his bow and doesn't look out of place as a defender.
Cordy - I've been impatient with his development but he looked OK last night and did some nice things
Hargrave - Made plenty of errors but looks fit and moved very well.
Howard - Not direct enough last night preferring short chip kicks but there is a bit to work with.
Minson - Hard to fault him. We need a big year from Will
Markovic - Solid effort
Murphy - Looked very classy in the game against the Pies
Others to stand out -
Giansiracusa, Liberatore, Picken and Roughead

No mention of Addison? Looked cool under pressure and capable. New regime will favour him and may burst out of the Eker ranks yet.

A serious lack of pace in our midfield to cover the back half worries me.
Seeing Dawes make Cross eat his dust bought back painful memories of Leigh Brown doing the same. Can we afford to have Libba, Boyd, Cross, Clay Smith in the same team? the slower, in and under types? Just not enough cover from our middle when its going the other way.


If you missed the NAB action
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/costly-start-to-season-for-magpies-roos-20120218-1tgid.html#ixzz1mm4WQ6hQ
Press conf video here
http://www.afl.com.au/Video/tabid/76/contentid/423474/invoke/Default.aspx

[GVGjr]

No mention of Libba?
I thought he did quite well. I went to a pub to watch it so I only saw the Collingwod Game. Libba seemed to get it quite a lot. Will's decision making was a bit iffy under pressure. Nice tap to gia for that goal but Bloody shocking handpass to Murph, last play of the first half. If we can keep players fit I think we can challenge most middle tier teams. Still can't seem to breach Collingwood defence with any confidence, whereas they have the ability to run right into our 50 with their small attacking players.

Check again, I didn't do a write up on him but he has very good.

[chef]

Who do we play next?

[Hotdog60]

I watched both games and I wasn't expecting too much, I thought our forward line was a let down. Too many bombs in the hope Jones will take the big grab, which in the greasy conditions wasn't going to happen very often.

I suppose it will take time for the main forward six to work out how to play for each other and for the mids to pick the right options.

I think Panos only did one strong lead which was honored from what I could see from the TV coverage, it was only a pity that he didn't hold the mark and convert.

Zeph looked like that X factor down there and may nudge Grant out of the line up as he look more damaging and was as least touching the ball, I think we will have a better guage come the last game of the NAB cup of how things are looking and although things may not be perfect we should have a glimpse of what they are trying to achieve.

One interesting thing was Dahlhaus in the Giants game, I think they had put Power on him as a tag and Luke may have to learn this year how to cope with someone sitting in he's back pocket. He may not find the freedom of last year.

[Go_Dogs]

What I would like to see is some more pace around the middle of the ground. I think with Minson/Roughead working with Libba, Cooney and Boyd there is plenty of ball winning ability. I wouldn't mind trying players like Gilbee and Murphy around the wings to run off them.

A few of the missing players could help in this regard - Cooney, Tutt, Gilbee, Sherman. I'm just not sure if its an area of focus/concern for the coaching group at this time. I understand our focus on winning the ball, but if we're just going to turn it over and don't have anyone who can carry it forward we're in trouble.

That being said, our best passage of play was one centre clearance, from memory Picken got it out and eventually it was received by Cross who set Jones up. Quick, direct ball movement and we looked good - and it didn't involve any speedsters or elite kicking.

[GVGjr]

I thought the Minson/Roughead combo was the most pleasing thing to come out of the night. some great tap work and good efforts around the ground. A fit Cooney running off them would make a huge difference.

Libba's inside work is elite. In my mind he has made Cross redundant.

I didn't mind Addison's efforts. Still no polish but plenty of endeavour. Would love to see him improve his ball skills.

Overall, we looked very one paced around the ground and a lot of sameness. no run or dash and not much enterprise bar Murphy. I was disappointed we were chipping the ball around half back in the Pies game when we were 7 points down with 2-3 minutes to play. Also agree with DR about the way the ball was easily brought out from our forward line.

What I would like to see is some more pace around the middle of the ground. I think with Minson/Roughead working with Libba, Cooney and Boyd there is plenty of ball winning ability. I wouldn't mind trying players like Gilbee and Murphy around the wings to run off them.

How we add some run and carry into the side is the big challenge for McCartney. Sure adding Cooney in the middle and Sherman to a flank or wing will improve things dramatically for us but we simply don't look a quick side. Moving Murphy to a wing would be well worth a try.

I wonder if the point both you and Dry Rot have made about the ball coming out of the forward line so easily is because we had to keep one of the ruckman there like Roughead and Minson, who despite there effort around the middle of the ground, and they weren't great in adapting to the conditions up forward? There also wasn't he defensive spark that Dahlhaus displayed last year. Having said that they midfielders didn't move the ball forward quickly at all and give our forwards some clean possessions.
It's another challenge for McCartney to work out how to lift the defensive intensity for our forwards.

[GVGjr]

Who do we play next?

Carlton on the 4th of March (Sunday) at 5.40pm at Etihad

[GVGjr]

Does future selections become a little clearer after last nights game?

Lake and Cooney will add a lot.
Sherman, Gilbee and Higgins add experience and and Tutt a lot of run

Question marks over how we can best use Cross and Cordy this season

[Desipura]

I was told Cross got a 2 year contract, I hope this is incorrect.

[Hotdog60]

Does future selections become a little clearer after last nights game?

Lake and Cooney will add a lot.
Sherman, Gilbee and Higgins add experience and and Tutt a lot of run

Question marks over how we can best use Cross and Cordy this season

Could Cross be used like Scott West, meaning that Cross digs it out and we need receivers going past. Although Libba looks like the better option, maybe Cross warms the bench and gives Libba a rest. Looking at last night pace would be my only knock as I thought in general Crossy disposal was ok.

[GVGjr]

Could Cross be used like Scott West, meaning that Cross digs it out and we need receivers going past. Although Libba looks like the better option, maybe Cross warms the bench and gives Libba a rest. Looking at last night pace would be my only knock as I thought in general Crossy disposal was ok.

Haven't we used him in that type of role for a while? I think we need to look at ways to better utilise his marking strength because I don't think he will log a lot of minutes in the centre square.

[Hotdog60]

Haven't we used him in that type of role for a while? I think we need to look at ways to better utilise his marking strength because I don't think he will log a lot of minutes in the centre square.

It's a hard call but there does seem to be limitations as to what position to play.

[chef]

I was told Cross got a 2 year contract, I hope this is incorrect.

It was a bit sad watching Dawes run away from him.

[Desipura]

It was a bit sad watching Dawes run away from him.

It was sad watching Leeroy Brown out sprint him last season.

[LostDoggy]

Apart from the time Dawes ran away from him, Cross was very good last night. Why pick on 1 incident?

[Maddog37]

The thing is that even though Dawes ran away from him not many other players would have even made the effort to be close to Dawes. He gets to contests due to his elite running that many others would not even attempt to get to.

[GVGjr]

Apart from the time Dawes ran away from him, Cross was very good last night. Why pick on 1 incident?


You're right, we shouldn't be focusing on one incident. I'm still not sure how we can best utilise him though.

[LostDoggy]

You're right, we shouldn't be focusing on one incident. I'm still not sure how we can best utilise him though.

Plenty of good players in afl history with a lack of pace and poor kicking. To me for Cross theres is on ball or no where. If he can't get the ball he is finished. ATM he can.

[Ghost Dog]

Check again, I didn't do a write up on him but he has very good.

Yep sorry. I noticed it later and edited. I felt Addison was worth a mention too GVG.

Made me feel a bit sad to see Rocket in the opposition coaching box. That's always going to be a big advantage for them when they play us.

[ledge]

Personally I am worried about the same thing, is it our delivery into the forward line or is it our forwards?
Macca might have this great idea of focussing on body strength at the ball, being strong enough in close etc but what about the delivery and forward set up?

[Rocco Jones]

I agree with Chops' comments about Cross. I think this board (me included) is overly harsh on Cross, focusing a lot more of his weaknesses than his strengths. In general I think fans are a lot harsher than players with strengths/weaknesses than average even across the board types. Gia while not like Cross as a player, is similiar in his strength/weakness type.

[chef]

Apart from the time Dawes ran away from him, Cross was very good last night. Why pick on 1 incident?

Fair enough, I wasn't meaning to pick it just really stood out to me and is(our leg speed) something that worries me. I am a Cross fan and was impressed with the amount of times he actually kicked the ball(hopefully it's a sign of thongs to come).

[wb_age]

Apart from the time Dawes ran away from him, Cross was very good last night. Why pick on 1 incident?
Adding to that, Cross should not of found himself in that position, Markovic left his man (Dawes) and did not spoil the ball, the ball should have been killed but instead the worst result transpired which was the ball going over the back.

The end result was one over the back and Cross' deficiency being exposed. That particular example was all Markovic and he certainly needs to improve this area of his game.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Markovic was pretty average IMO.

His decision making is slow and his disposal is bad.

We really need an in form Lake.

[GVGjr]

Markovic was pretty average IMO.

His decision making is slow and his disposal is bad.

We really need an in form Lake.


I get what you mean but he's a handy back-up though because we aren't flush with emerging key defenders.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Williams was worse than Markovic. The 2 on the line pies goals were not all Markovic. Markovic was also on Israel:) who hardily touched the ball. Money well spent there.

[LostDoggy]

Just wondering how much Rocket fed to Buckley and or the pies players about ours players and our plans? Considering how Shaw niggled Grant, I reckon there is a good chance it might have come straight from Eade.

[AndrewP6]

Just wondering how much Rocket fed to Buckley and or the pies players about ours players and our plans? Considering how Shaw niggled Grant, I reckon there is a good chance it might have come straight from Eade.

Quite likely, and if so, right on the money.

[Ghost Dog]

Quite likely, and if so, right on the money.

Collingwood are usually a bit like that. Harry O and Shaw seem to make it their business to get in player's faces.

[FrediKanoute]

Personally I am worried about the same thing, is it our delivery into the forward line or is it our forwards?
Macca might have this great idea of focussing on body strength at the ball, being strong enough in close etc but what about the delivery and forward set up?

Work in progress. I would think it will be an uninspiring first half of the season, but as the guys get used to the contested approach skills will come. Rome wasn't built in a day.....

[Happy Days]

Just watched the games, just a few quick thoughts;

- Dahlhaus is going to be good this year if the practice match is anything to go by, but he needs to play as much more of a crumber; didn't get to the front of enough packs.

- Vez can seriously kick the ball. Think he will go down very nicely on a back flank this year, provided he works hard enough without the ball.

- Smith can't kick, but he is tough as nails; about what we all expected

- Skinner actually looks to have gained some composure. Thought he picked his spots much better and was really able to have a positive influence without having to hit up the highlight real to do so.

- Williams will never be an intelligent footballer, still a total lack of footy smarts. His best hope is for Lake to come back and for him to beat up on the second forward for the rest of his career. The goal line defending was absolutely horrible, and it was largely on him.

- Boyd, Gia both brilliant, Cross is painfully slow but still looked okay, think we can rely on the older brigade to produce to the level we would expect this year.

- Addison might get a serious crack at a back pocket this year; plays a style you would have to think would resonate with B-Mac and was seriously impressive yesterday.

- On a GWS note, Folau is just awful. Went straight to ground almost every time he went near it, looked every bit like he has been plucked from no where and given no idea of what he's meant to do except smile in promo photos. >10 goals might be an accurate prediction.

[LostDoggy]

Still dont get the smith selection.. we have gazillions of his type, the slow, hard as nails, win the ball but give it straight back to the opposition type. What exactly was he supposed to add that we dont already get from boyd, libba, cross, addison et al? Apologies to libba... his disposal is elite, his work in close, spatial intelligence and game sense reminds me of pendlebury.

[LostDoggy]

Just watched the games, just a few quick thoughts;

- Dahlhaus is going to be good this year if the practice match is anything to go by, but he needs to play as much more of a crumber; didn't get to the front of enough packs.

- Vez can seriously kick the ball. Think he will go down very nicely on a back flank this year, provided he works hard enough without the ball.



Did he not work hard off the ball last night?

[jeemak]

Still dont get the smith selection.. we have gazillions of his type, the slow, hard as nails, win the ball but give it straight back to the opposition type. What exactly was he supposed to add that we dont already get from boyd, libba, cross, addison et al? Apologies to libba... his disposal is elite, his work in close, spatial intelligence and game sense reminds me of pendlebury.

We don't need his talents immediately however, Boyd and Cross aren't going to be around for much more than the next two years and Addison is merely a fringe player.

You'd think that in three years time it will be up to Smith and Libba to do the grunt work and dish it to linking players and running players.

His selection needs to be looked upon with a view to his value in three or four years time (although if we fail to pick quicker and more polished players in this years draft I'll be fairly peeved).

[Eastdog]

We don't need his talents immediately however, Boyd and Cross aren't going to be around for much more than the next two years and Addison is merely a fringe player.

You'd think that in three years time it will be up to Smith and Libba to do the grunt work and dish it to linking players and running players.

His selection needs to be looked upon with a view to his value in three or four years time (although if we fail to pick quicker and more polished players in this years draft I'll be fairly peeved).

What do you think about Mitch Wallis, Zeph Skinner, Liam Jones and Veszpremi. Liam Jones needs more games into him before he can have an affect. There are some good signs in that opening game from Skinner that showed he might do okay this season. Boyd and Cross where fantastic as they should be.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Welcome back Shags he looked good. Is it too early to start the Postive Thread?

[chef]

Still dont get the smith selection.. we have gazillions of his type, the slow, hard as nails, win the ball but give it straight back to the opposition type. What exactly was he supposed to add that we dont already get from boyd, libba, cross, addison et al? Apologies to libba... his disposal is elite, his work in close, spatial intelligence and game sense reminds me of pendlebury.

Apart from Libba we don't have any other good young mids coming through, so I don't mind this selection(his kicking looks a bit of a worry though). In 3 seasons time we will be without Boyd, Cross and Cooney.

[LostDoggy]

I don't know if anyone else had mentioned this, but the reason we looked so sloppy (as did GWS and Collingwood) was because it was humid, the ground and ball was slippery.

I read the first few pages of comments, I dont know if people listened to it on radio or what ever reason, but the ball was wet! Don't expect a clean disposal or mark every single time our players were with the ball.

[Sedat]

I don't know if anyone else had mentioned this, but the reason we looked so sloppy (as did GWS and Collingwood) was because it was humid, the ground and ball was slippery.

I read the first few pages of comments, I dont know if people listened to it on radio or what ever reason, but the ball was wet! Don't expect a clean disposal or mark every single time our players were with the ball.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread - NAB Cup matches in Feb are sloppy affairs at the best of times, but add some steamy and humid conditions to the mix and ball-handling becomes almost farcical.

I was quite pleased with with how our ruck division performed at the stoppages. Roughy in particular palmed the ball to advantage very effectively a few times and gave us first use more often than not. He is one player on our list who has genuine talent and should improve significantly on his modest output in 2011.

[WB4Life]

Wow... do i feel depressed after reading that, if thats what "supporters" are saying whats the rest of the football world think of us?

come on it was ordinary conditions and our first hit out in spite, not saying we're flag favorites, but lighten up a little, it's not all doom and gloom.

i think Cross, Boyd and a couple others are very harshly judged on here, both guys are warriors for the red white and blue jumper and deserve a little more respect!

[bornadog]

Wow... do i feel depressed after reading that, if thats what "supporters" are saying whats the rest of the football world think of us?

come on it was ordinary conditions and our first hit out in spite, not saying we're flag favorites, but lighten up a little, it's not all doom and gloom.

i think Cross, Boyd and a couple others are very harshly judged on here, both guys are warriors for the red white and blue jumper and deserve a little more respect!

I hope I am wrong, but be prepared for a long season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I hope I am wrong, but be prepared for a long season.

We all hope you are wrong :) but its surely going to take the new regime a while to establish their game plan, and we at least partly hired a development coach because we are in a development phase.

[Ozza]

Haven't we learnt anything from previous NAB Cups? We win one and everyone is talking premierships, we have a bit of an ordinary one and its going to be a long year.

I think it was 2008 - Essendon beat us by 13 goals - then they finished bottom 4 - and we barely lost a game in the first 10 rounds.

I'm not phased whatsoever by any of the good or bad of a couple of half matches played in slippery conditions in February.

[SlimPickens]

haven't we learnt anything from previous nab cups? We win one and everyone is talking premierships, we have a bit of an ordinary one and its going to be a long year.

I think it was 2008 - essendon beat us by 13 goals - then they finished bottom 4 - and we barely lost a game in the first 10 rounds.

I'm not phased whatsoever by any of the good or bad of a couple of half matches played in slippery conditions in february.

this^^^^

[Mofra]

Wow... do i feel depressed after reading that, if thats what "supporters" are saying whats the rest of the football world think of us?

come on it was ordinary conditions and our first hit out in spite, not saying we're flag favorites, but lighten up a little, it's not all doom and gloom.

i think Cross, Boyd and a couple others are very harshly judged on here, both guys are warriors for the red white and blue jumper and deserve a little more respect!
Things are never as good, or as bad, as they seem.

[Happy Days]

Did he not work hard off the ball last night?

Didn't say he didn't, but it's still a valid concern given the way he got torched by Gia in the intra-club.

[LostDoggy]

Apart from Libba we don't have any other good young mids coming through, so I don't mind this selection(his kicking looks a bit of a worry though). In 3 seasons time we will be without Boyd, Cross and Cooney.

Hi chef!

Your point about his kicking is precisely my worry. Hard bodied, slow, ball magnets with dodgy kicks are not THAT difficult to find, and don't really need a lot of development lead-time. If the time arose that we really were short in that area there are state leagues we can dip into to get mature hard-heads to play this role (perhaps imperfectly, but Smith looks like he'll also only ever play the role imperfectly with that kicking).

Also, 'replacing Boyd and Cross' are a false equivalence. 17 other AFL teams don't have Boydy or Crossy, and 8 of them will still make the finals, and one of them will win the premiership. We're not looking to 'replace Boyd or Cross' (or Ward or Johnno or Bazza or Hudson or anyone else, for that matter). We're looking to develop a great midfield, and they come in all shapes, flavours and sizes. We don't need to be picking 'clones' of current players to replace them when they retire, we just need to be picking the players that will make a difference at AFL level and building a game-plan around them.

The Geelong and Collingwood (and to a certain extent, Hawthorn's) midfields would be my template for a successful, modern centre-bounce rotation, and you won't find a dodgy kick amongst them. Every single player in those teams' rotation brings slightly different things to the table, but they all can:

1. Win their own ball (to a certain extent), and
2. Have the smarts, skills or game sense to use the ball effectively, be that playing keepings off (Corey, Gablett, Bartel, Selwood), dishing off in limited space (Mitchell, Pendlebury), taking off at speed (Coons, Daisy), getting space to get a bomb off (Griff, Swan, Stevie J.), or sneaking forward to do scoreboard damage (Swan, Bartel etc.)

The thing is, they all had the basic template for their roles set when they were drafted, and while they have all matured and improved their skills to a certain extent, it was all always there from the start.

Smith can't kick. That's not going to change drastically in the next 5-10 years, and unless he becomes the second coming of Scott West with eyes in the back of his head, that's a MASSIVE concern and (to my mind) a bit of a throwaway of a first-round pick (as he fills a questionable need with skills that can be picked up later in the draft/rookie draft/ pre-season draft etc.)

[bornadog]

Haven't we learnt anything from previous NAB Cups? We win one and everyone is talking premierships, we have a bit of an ordinary one and its going to be a long year.

I think it was 2008 - Essendon beat us by 13 goals - then they finished bottom 4 - and we barely lost a game in the first 10 rounds.

I'm not phased whatsoever by any of the good or bad of a couple of half matches played in slippery conditions in February.

My assumptions are not based on NAB cup as they are just practise matches. I don't think we have the players to take us to finals this year. Depending on how the group develops over the next year, we may challenge in 2013/4

[LostDoggy]

My assumptions are not based on NAB cup as they are just practise matches. I don't think we have the players to take us to finals this year. Depending on how the group develops over the next year, we may challenge in 2013/4

It's a tricky one isn't it? I think most of us honestly don't know what our natural level is at this point, which makes predictions difficult. We started last year as Premiership favourites, and we haven't actually lost a lot out of that group. Having said that, we know we were actually only good enough to finish 10th -- but that was without Brian and Coons. They remain a big question mark, but there is no doubt that a fully fit Lake and Cooney would have meant us finishing in the 8 last year, but where in the 8? There is also a big variable on how much they'll bring to the table this year -- will we get 80% of 2010 Brian and 50% of 2009 Coons? How much have the kids matured? What will they bring?

The reality is that our ambiguity is probably symptomatic of all mid-tier teams. We know we're not quite good enough to be considered a contender (but half-believe that if everything falls into place we're a chance of making a nuisance of ourselves), and we're afraid that we'll slide and finish near the bottom, but know that we probably have enough quality that it shouldn't happen. Our brains, in wanting a simple answer, veer between the two extremes of hope and despair (and reading too much into practice matches), but the reality is probably that we'll get a pretty 'meh' year with a couple of good wins, some bad losses, and a whole bunch of middling results, and finish somewhere in the 7th to 12th range.

[always right]

Our brains, in wanting a simple answer, veer between the two extremes of hope and despair (and reading too much into practice matches), but the reality is probably that we'll get a pretty 'meh' year with a couple of good wins, some bad losses, and a whole bunch of middling results, and finish somewhere in the 7th to 12th range.

Agree with this but hope that by the end of the season we will have also seen further development amongst our younger blokes and clear signs that we are embracing a gamestyle that will position us well for the next year or two. What I don't want to see is a continued unhealthy reliance on a few senior players with young blokes just treading water with their development.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Things are never as good, or as bad, as they seem.

Very deep for a Monday

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The positives to come out of the NAB cup was the possible improvement in Cordy, Roughead, Howard and Liberatore. The forward line still represents a problem with a heavy reliance on Jones.
We badly need the injection of Lake, Cooney and Morris to add class and experience.
Boyd, Griffen, Cross and Murphy will all need to play at their top for us to remain competitive.Smith, Talia and Dickson all appear a fair way off becoming regulars. The return of Hargrave was a positive and given Morris's injury will be a welcome addition to the defence.

[Sedat]

If you're looking for a key positive at this time of the year, injuries (nil) is it. I bet Collingwood and North wish they could say the same thing. They aren't called practice matches for nothing.

[Remi Moses]

I don't know if anyone else had mentioned this, but the reason we looked so sloppy (as did GWS and Collingwood) was because it was humid, the ground and ball was slippery.

I read the first few pages of comments, I dont know if people listened to it on radio or what ever reason, but the ball was wet! Don't expect a clean disposal or mark every single time our players were with the ball.

Exactly. Collingwood were the only ones who won playing 2 in a Row.
This Mickey mouse format is being seriously over analyzed on here!!
We'll finish between 9 >> 13

[Maddog37]

This year will be all about the coach looking at the list first hand and giving guys a chance to play the way he likes. It will take time for most to get used to and some won't at all.

I would expect a year where finals are a bonus and a fair few changes in personal next year.

Maybe if Lake and Cooney have good years the expectations might change but that is a big if.

Lastly, I am not a big footy punter but I will be backing Boyd for the Brownlow.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think this season will be much more exciting and enjoyable than last -- and we may even finish lower.

We're going to find out a lot about our list, in particular our younger players. Some will step up and make it, others will drop off and fail. That's the reality of the situation.

We aren't going to win a premiership, and whilst that's what football is all about, I think some of the most enjoyable periods can actually be transition periods.

Why? No expectation, no 'pressure' of 09/10/11 seasons.

2005 was one of the best seasons in terms of enjoyment, and it was because the club evoked change and developed a new set of players.

When you know you aren't a contender, and you're adapting to change, it's a fun "pressure free" ride IMO.

[LostDoggy]

I think this season will be much more exciting and enjoyable than last -- and we may even finish lower.

We're going to find out a lot about our list, in particular our younger players. Some will step up and make it, others will drop off and fail. That's the reality of the situation.

We aren't going to win a premiership, and whilst that's what football is all about, I think some of the most enjoyable periods can actually be transition periods.

Why? No expectation, no 'pressure' of 09/10/11 seasons.

2005 was one of the best seasons in terms of enjoyment, and it was because the club evoked change and developed a new set of players.

When you know you aren't a contender, and you're adapting to change, it's a fun "pressure free" ride IMO.

Agree with all of this TBB -- looking forward to the year!

ps. Having said that, I HATE HATE HATE the floggings that sometimes occur during 'transition' years. The big losses we copped against the likes of West Coast and Adelaide on our travels in 04/05/06 gave me nightmares.

[G-Mo77]

I hope I am wrong, but be prepared for a long season.

I hope you are wrong as well but I'd have to agree. I've picked us for bottom 4 this year. I don't think our younger players are ready to take that next step yet and I can't see our LTI's from last year making us a better side. It's going to be a transitional year IMO.

[Ozza]

Agree with all of this TBB -- looking forward to the year!

ps. Having said that, I HATE HATE HATE the floggings that sometimes occur during 'transition' years. The big losses we copped against the likes of West Coast and Adelaide on our travels in 04/05/06 gave me nightmares.

Also agree with TBB. When we were near the top it was great to win regularly - but it was so much pressure every week that it was so frustrating when we either lost, or didn't win in the fashion we'd like.

Of course I'd prefer to be up the top of the ladder - but the perspective is different this year - and yes, the pressure is off a fair bit. I'm looking forward to watching Liam Jones as our focal point, Libba and Wal, and the other young blokes.

[Greystache]

I think this season will be much more exciting and enjoyable than last -- and we may even finish lower.

We're going to find out a lot about our list, in particular our younger players. Some will step up and make it, others will drop off and fail. That's the reality of the situation.

We aren't going to win a premiership, and whilst that's what football is all about, I think some of the most enjoyable periods can actually be transition periods.

Why? No expectation, no 'pressure' of 09/10/11 seasons.

2005 was one of the best seasons in terms of enjoyment, and it was because the club evoked change and developed a new set of players.

When you know you aren't a contender, and you're adapting to change, it's a fun "pressure free" ride IMO.

Agree with this.

I enjoy a season more if we're 10-12th so long as we're having a go, playing young kids, and have potential for improvement, than I do when we're in that 4-6th window where we beat all the transitional team, flog the celler dwellars, and lose to the top teams every time with no likelihood of it changing.

[Mantis]

I enjoy a season more if we're 10-12th so long as we're having a go, playing young kids, and have potential for improvement, than I do when we're in that 4-6th window where we beat all the transitional team, flog the celler dwellars, and lose to the top teams every time with no likelihood of it changing.

What about if we finish 13th to 16th... or lower, will that be enjoyable?

[Greystache]

What about if we finish 13th to 16th... or lower, will that be enjoyable?

Not so much. A club needs a lot to go wrong over an extended period to end up in the bottom couple of positions (ie Voss trading, a team of veterans all retiring at once with no transition planning, or Richmond being Richmond. I don't see us there at this stage.

[bornadog]

What about if we finish 13th to 16th... or lower, will that be enjoyable?

Not for me

[Sockeye Salmon]

Agree with this.

I enjoy a season more if we're 10-12th so long as we're having a go, playing young kids, and have potential for improvement, than I do when we're in that 4-6th window where we beat all the transitional team, flog the celler dwellars, and lose to the top teams every time with no likelihood of it changing.

That's what we did last year

[Before I Die]

I think this season will be much more exciting and enjoyable than last -- and we may even finish lower.

We're going to find out a lot about our list, in particular our younger players. Some will step up and make it, others will drop off and fail. That's the reality of the situation.

We aren't going to win a premiership, and whilst that's what football is all about, I think some of the most enjoyable periods can actually be transition periods.

Why? No expectation, no 'pressure' of 09/10/11 seasons.
2005 was one of the best seasons in terms of enjoyment, and it was because the club evoked change and developed a new set of players.

When you know you aren't a contender, and you're adapting to change, it's a fun "pressure free" ride IMO.

I think I need to check the ages of some of you folks on the WOOF Profiles thread. I have had far, far too many years without expectation. 09/10/11 have been years of immense enjoyment seeing my team win most weeks. I will probably cop a barrage about accepting medicrity, but in my view such a claim is rubbish. I like seeing the Dogs win, I enjoy it when they make the finals. I enjoy it even more when they are genuine contenders. And I hope to see a premiership Before I Die. But if I was asked would I prefer twenty years of finals or one year of finals for one premiership, I would take the former.

[G-Mo77]

I'm really down on this season, really not enthusiastic at all and feel...., well sad about the state the club is in right now. We had the potential to take it our over the last 4 years and didn't come away with it yet again. Paint it any way you want but we failed, our window is shut right now and we've got a long way to go before it reopens. I don't know how that can be enjoyable? I'm gutted we've fallen away so quickly.

[AndrewP6]

I'm really down on this season, really not enthusiastic at all and feel...., well sad about the state the club is in right now. We had the potential to take it our over the last 4 years and didn't come away with it yet again. Paint it any way you want but we failed, our window is shut right now and we've got a long way to go before it reopens. I don't know how that can be enjoyable? I'm gutted we've fallen away so quickly.

I think I'm a bit the same. I'll be there, but I'll have to muster the enthusiasm at times.

[Maddog37]

You guys sound like wet rags. Fire up a bit and just enjoy the ride. There are more important things to get down about in life.

[AndrewP6]

You guys sound like wet rags. Fire up a bit and just enjoy the ride. There are more important things to get down about in life.

Too true, but this is a football forum...;)

[soupman]

- On a GWS note, Folau is just awful. Went straight to ground almost every time he went near it, looked every bit like he has been plucked from no where and given no idea of what he's meant to do except smile in promo photos. >10 goals might be an accurate prediction.

This is interesting.

As Folau is being developed as a forward, or an "attacking" player, the bar is set pretty high because as a physically ready, high profile recruit at an age where players tend to emerge he has to show something. Karmichael Hunt got bagged and he played out od defence, where shutting down his opponent and getting 5 ineffectual touches wasn't the end of the world. I think Folau is going to have a rough year. Especially as GWS forward line only really has O'hAilpin as a key forward, so sides can afford to put good big defenders on Folau who will kill him.

[Before I Die]

I'm really down on this season, really not enthusiastic at all and feel...., well sad about the state the club is in right now. We had the potential to take it our over the last 4 years and didn't come away with it yet again. Paint it any way you want but we failed, our window is shut right now and we've got a long way to go before it reopens. I don't know how that can be enjoyable? I'm gutted we've fallen away so quickly.

I think this is yet to be determined. Injuries to key players and a failing game plan saw us drop away last year. Whether we fall further or rebound this year is as yet unknown. I am genuinely excited by the young talls we have on our list and I believe the future is rosy. I just hope that we have an early bloom.

[Mantis]

I think this is yet to be determined. Injuries to key players and a failing game plan saw us drop away last year. Whether we fall further or rebound this year is as yet unknown. I am genuinely excited by the young talls we have on our list and I believe the future is rosy. I just hope that we have an early bloom.

Do you have similiar enthusiasm for our young mids?

[Greystache]

That's what we did last year

No it wasn't.

Last year we were a team that wasn't making any improvement and a heap of teams went past us, add in injuries to two key players and we were barely competitive. The situation was unlikely to change unless we made changes, hence the club replaced virtually the entire coaching group. We now have some prospect of improvement, and hence some excitement.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I get what you mean but he's a handy back-up though because we aren't flush with emerging key defenders.

The value of Markovic is that he provides a third big tall as a back up to Lake and Williams. This releases Morris to play on a medium or small which should always be the case. The good early form shown by Hargrave will also help offset the loss of Morris in the 5-6 opening rounds.

[GVGjr]

The value of Markovic is that he provides a third big tall as a back up to Lake and Williams. This releases Morris to play on a medium or small which should always be the case. The good early form shown by Hargrave will also help offset the loss of Morris in the 5-6 opening rounds.

All good points NBP. I'm hopeful that Hargrave can stay healthy this season because I'd like to see him played on some smaller guys.

[the banker]

Injuries to key players and a failing game plan saw us drop away last year.
The players have a lot of adjustment to a new coaching panel. The coaching panel itself needs to find isfeet in a new environment. While there is a good deal of excitement about change I think it will take some part of the season for it to come together. We have a good draw at the start that will give us an opportunity to build confidence by being competitive or by winning. Maybe we might get some excitement later in the year.

[Before I Die]

Do you have similiar enthusiasm for our young mids?

No, but I think quality mids are easier to find. If the current young crop doesn't come on quickly, we should be able to roll them over. Quality talls, as we have very clearly demonstrated over the past twenty years, are much harder to come by.

[Sockeye Salmon]

No it wasn't.

Last year we were a team that wasn't making any improvement and a heap of teams went past us, add in injuries to two key players and we were barely competitive. The situation was unlikely to change unless we made changes, hence the club replaced virtually the entire coaching group. We now have some prospect of improvement, and hence some excitement.

Without our two best players we were never a chance to win anything so we tried 10 debutants.

[jeemak]

No, but I think quality mids are easier to find. If the current young crop doesn't come on quickly, we should be able to roll them over. Quality talls, as we have very clearly demonstrated over the past twenty years, are much harder to come by.

I'm fairly excited about Dahl, Libba, and Tutt (who I think will be an exceptional outside runner). I haven't seen enough of Wallis, but I am prepared to wait another two or three years for him to regularly produce. If we get steady improvement out of these players, and they are there to supplement Cooney (of course, if able to walk let alone produce at 75%), Griffen and Higgins I think we'll be in a pretty good position in terms of midfield balance in two to three years time.

If we draft well this year and pick up some quality runners with good skills then that will satisfy the overall needs of our list, it will then be up to us to develop all of the above.

I agree that we have some good taller prospects. The key for mine is Grant, if he can get his act together then he and Jones will be a significant headache for any back six. Emma Quayle talked about Ayce Cordy being the most unique player in the 2008 draft, a solid year from him will get me excited.

[bornadog]

Without our two best players we were never a chance to win anything so we tried 10 debutants.

and that was exciting. I don't think I have seen ten debutantes since 1984, and back then they were experienced mainly WAFL players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think I need to check the ages of some of you folks on the WOOF Profiles thread. I have had far, far too many years without expectation. 09/10/11 have been years of immense enjoyment seeing my team win most weeks. I will probably cop a barrage about accepting medicrity, but in my view such a claim is rubbish. I like seeing the Dogs win, I enjoy it when they make the finals. I enjoy it even more when they are genuine contenders. And I hope to see a premiership Before I Die. But if I was asked would I prefer twenty years of finals or one year of finals for one premiership, I would take the former.

You make it sound like we don't share the same view.

Of course when we are contenders, it's enjoyable. Of course we like seeing the Dogs in finals. But in 2011 we were extremely poor.

We haven't been genuine contenders since 2009.

Time to rebuild; it's not the end of the world like some are carrying on about.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm really down on this season, really not enthusiastic at all and feel...., well sad about the state the club is in right now. We had the potential to take it our over the last 4 years and didn't come away with it yet again. Paint it any way you want but we failed, our window is shut right now and we've got a long way to go before it reopens. I don't know how that can be enjoyable? I'm gutted we've fallen away so quickly.

Fallen away so quickly?

Signs were bad in 2010. The situation got a whole lot worse in 2011.

In any case, we made three consecutive preliminary finals. We just weren't good enough -- change was needed, it happened, and now we begin again.

I'm surprised by the amount of doom and gloom. IMO 2010/2011 were painful. You knew we were NEVER going to challenge the top sides, particularly in 2010.

I'm looking forward to seeing how we tackle a new era.

[G-Mo77]

I'm looking forward to seeing how we tackle a new era.

Don't get me wrong the climb back is always exciting. It's just depressing that in another successful era we failed.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I hope I am wrong, but be prepared for a long season.

I'm prepared for some great draft picks, and turning the Callan Ward compensation pick into gold.

[Dancin' Douggy]

What about if we finish 13th to 16th... or lower, will that be enjoyable?

Will be on draft day............

[LostDoggy]

I don't care where we finish this year. I hope the emphasis is placed on learning and implementing the new game plan. Play people on their merit and their compliance to the game plan. WCE did this in 2010 and finished last. They are now reaping the benefits!

[Bulldog Joe]

Way too much pessimism.

Have overnight watched the replays and seriously we were not that bad.

We did fall down up forward in both games, but general play was ok given that it was a first hitout.

I saw positive signs in Minson, Cordy and Roughead and I liked Howard's efforts. Cross was also good despite some criticism on here. He even took responsibility and kicked a set shot goal. Will be a valuable contributor if he does some of that added to his superb endurance. Hargrave looked like he could be back to what he contributed pre injury. I could easily get excited about the Zephyr.

When we add Tutt, Sherman and Cooney our pace will improve significantly and I also expect that the skill levels will get better.

I remain confident that we can be more than competitive and be at least in finals contention.

[Cyberdoggie]

I was hoping to see more from Dickson but he looked to be a little weak in contested marking and the lack of space and humid conditions weren't helping him either.

Will be interesting to see what he does on Etihad against Carlton.

[stefoid]

Mac said we have to work on disposal under pressure - that is our achilles heel for most of our players. This is not news to us fans of course, but that was the main thing he highlighted at the presser after the match.

[LostDoggy]

Don't get me wrong the climb back is always exciting. It's just depressing that in another successful era we failed.

It was almost unbelievable looking back, we had crucial injuries at the wrong end of a couple of seasons there and the calibre of some of the other teams was amazing (Geelong/Collingwood). I think we would have beaten the Sydney and West Coast premiership teams of previous years. Saints footy was a thorn in our side.

I really enjoyed those years of winning the majority of our matches. We are heading in the right direction now, at least we are making the right decisions.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Don't get me wrong the climb back is always exciting. It's just depressing that in another successful era we failed.

I know what you mean.

After 2009, I was really flat. I'll never forget that PF -- still creeps into my mind every now and again.

I think I am almost 'relieved' that 2010/2011 are long gone, and we can focus on a new direction. Those two years were hard to take.

[LostDoggy]

I can understand the lack of real confidence in the coming season after our last couple of years, however, I cant help but think back to around 15 years ago to where we were then.

I have followed and watched the dogs since 1960 and even if I am old I dont think I am senile just yet, partially demented after supporting the dogs for so long maybe!

I am a believer in the power of the mental side of sports, golf etc etc, and footy especially, I have watched closely our players and even in 2009 I suspect that they did not fully believe that they thought they could win through to the granny. I may be wrong but the stats may back me up, anyhoos in 1996 we finished 15th with 5 wins and a percentage of 77.33%, with our new coach TW in 1997 we finished 3rd with 14 wins and a percentage of 101.84%, we had basically the same players, the belief was instilled in the players that they could play and compete with the best, they were very stiff as we all know not to take the spoils in 1997.

My point is that I sense the same sort of changes that caused the improvement back then may be occuring again with Macca and his crew, belief is a very powerful tool, I reckon we still have a crew of players who can improve quickly and take us back to the 8 and top 4, whether good enough to win a flag is yet to be proved, but I am confident of vast improvement this year compared to last year. Lets not dwell on NAB results and form it really means nothing.

The players at Geelong seem to think that they can win anything and play accordingly and Macca was there, I am hopeful of the same at the dogs. Sorry for the long post I dont do this often.

[Ghost Dog]

I can understand the lack of real confidence in the coming season after our last couple of years, however, I cant help but think back to around 15 years ago to where we were then.

I have followed and watched the dogs since 1960 and even if I am old I dont think I am senile just yet, partially demented after supporting the dogs for so long maybe!

I am a believer in the power of the mental side of sports, golf etc etc, and footy especially, I have watched closely our players and even in 2009 I suspect that they did not fully believe that they thought they could win through to the granny. I may be wrong but the stats may back me up, anyhoos in 1996 we finished 15th with 5 wins and a percentage of 77.33%, with our new coach TW in 1997 we finished 3rd with 14 wins and a percentage of 101.84%, we had basically the same players, the belief was instilled in the players that they could play and compete with the best, they were very stiff as we all know not to take the spoils in 1997.

My point is that I sense the same sort of changes that caused the improvement back then may be occuring again with Macca and his crew, belief is a very powerful tool, I reckon we still have a crew of players who can improve quickly and take us back to the 8 and top 4, whether good enough to win a flag is yet to be proved, but I am confident of vast improvement this year compared to last year. Lets not dwell on NAB results and form it really means nothing.

The players at Geelong seem to think that they can win anything and play accordingly and Macca was there, I am hopeful of the same at the dogs. Sorry for the long post I dont do this often.

Great Post Greggles!

[SlimPickens]

Way too much pessimism.

Have overnight watched the replays and seriously we were not that bad.

We did fall down up forward in both games, but general play was ok given that it was a first hitout.

I saw positive signs in Minson, Cordy and Roughead and I liked Howard's efforts. Cross was also good despite some criticism on here. He even took responsibility and kicked a set shot goal. Will be a valuable contributor if he does some of that added to his superb endurance. Hargrave looked like he could be back to what he contributed pre injury. I could easily get excited about the Zephyr.

When we add Tutt, Sherman and Cooney our pace will improve significantly and I also expect that the skill levels will get better.

I remain confident that we can be more than competitive and be at least in finals contention.

Thank you for putting some sense back into the discussion.

[Mantis]

We did fall down up forward in both games, but general play was ok given that it was a first hitout.



How do you propose we turn around our forward line issues in the short term to allow us to be competitive against all-comers?

[Bulldog Joe]

How do you propose we turn around our forward line issues in the short term to allow us to be competitive against all-comers?

I think the addition of some run with Sherman and Tutt as well as some class from Cooney and Higgins will change the dynamic.

[Bulldog Revolution]

After 2009, I was really flat. I'll never forget that PF -- still creeps into my mind every now and again.


I really thought we were going to win in 2009.

It was such an intense game - I haven't watched the replay and don't know if I ever will, but the effort the team put forward that night was superb and the only thing that disappointed me was the result.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I really thought we were going to win in 2009.

It was such an intense game - I haven't watched the replay and don't know if I ever will, but the effort the team put forward that night was superb and the only thing that disappointed me was the result.

Yeah, it was both the best and worst game I've been to for those reasons you listed.

In such a big time game, I don't think I've seen us perform better -- but we missed a few chances and got a few BS decisions that went against us. That's all it took.

Still remember so many pieces of play from that game.

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah, it was both the best and worst game I've been to for those reasons you listed.

In such a big time game, I don't think I've seen us perform better -- but we missed a few chances and got a few BS decisions that went against us. That's all it took.

Still remember so many pieces of play from that game.

I never think about it. Rather focus on the present and future. Onwards and upwards!

[Desipura]

I think the addition of some run with Sherman and Tutt as well as some class from Cooney and Higgins will change the dynamic.

And a fit Lake will provide enough rebound

[The Underdog]

I think the addition of some run with Sherman and Tutt as well as some class from Cooney and Higgins will change the dynamic.

Not to be too negative, but while I like Tutt's potential, and Cooney is a match winner if he can get back to 90%, Sherman has proved inconsistent to this point and Higgins is a complete wildcard as far as what he can be relied on to provide.

[bornadog]

Not to be too negative, but while I like Tutt's potential, and Cooney is a match winner if he can get back to 90%, Sherman has proved inconsistent to this point and Higgins is a complete wildcard as far as what he can be relied on to provide.

Sherman's value to the team is actually underestimated. Last year up until his big mouth got him into trouble, he was our leading score assist player.

[The Underdog]

Sherman's value to the team is actually underestimated. Last year up until his big mouth got him into trouble, he was our leading score assist player.

He often had the feeling of a front-runner though and not only did he do something that was probably the most disapointing on-field act by a Bulldog player in a long long time, he only played one game after that then got injured. Inconsistency has been a hallmark of his career so far and that needs to improve. He does have attributes that we are lacking in though so hopefully he steps up.

[Bulldog Joe]

Not to be too negative, but while I like Tutt's potential, and Cooney is a match winner if he can get back to 90%, Sherman has proved inconsistent to this point and Higgins is a complete wildcard as far as what he can be relied on to provide.

Perhaps I am the glass half full guy.

However there is no denying that Higgins has shown CLASS.

He really has only had a brief period in 09 where he appeared injury free. He is a player who could really be A grade if his body holds up.

Sherman has been a consistent goal kicker over his career and scored 30 at Brisbane in 09.

[The Underdog]

Perhaps I am the glass half full guy.

However there is no denying that Higgins has shown CLASS.

He really has only had a brief period in 09 where he appeared injury free. He is a player who could really be A grade if his body holds up.

Sherman has been a consistent goal kicker over his career and scored 30 at Brisbane in 09.

Yes but at what point do you stop crossing your fingers and hoping a guy to be injury free.
I think he could definitely be B+ grade, although the toll that injury has taken on his pace and the work he needs to do defensively are definite barriers.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be too negative but realistically if it walk's like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know the rest and to suddenly expect guys to break with past issues (inconsistency, injury, attitude) isn't always realistic. I'm not saying that these things can't change, just that when they begin to have a history of repeating then it becomes less of a chance that they will. Yes, some one can come from the clouds like Dahlhaus but there is usually a player on the other end who under performs also.
I think we're better off looking for further improvement from guys like Tutt, Jones, Cordy, Dahlhaus et al than expecting radical shifts from older guys.

[bornadog]

Yes but at what point do you stop crossing your fingers and hoping a guy to be injury free.
I think he could definitely be B+ grade, although the toll that injury has taken on his pace and the work he needs to do defensively are definite barriers.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be too negative but realistically if it walk's like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know the rest and to suddenly expect guys to break with past issues (inconsistency, injury, attitude) isn't always realistic. I'm not saying that these things can't change, just that when they begin to have a history of repeating then it becomes less of a chance that they will. Yes, some one can come from the clouds like Dahlhaus but there is usually a player on the other end who under performs also.
I think we're better off looking for further improvement from guys like Tutt, Jones, Cordy, Dahlhaus et al than expecting radical shifts from older guys.

Some players can be prone to injury. I remember Matthew Croft was constantly injured in his younger days, especially with hammies, but eventually got over it. Kretuik was similar, more injured than games played. Both guys we knew had potential and we stuck with them.

We know Higgins has talent and all posters are saying is if he can stay injury free, he will be a real asset to the team.

[jeemak]

Yes but at what point do you stop crossing your fingers and hoping a guy to be injury free.
I think he could definitely be B+ grade, although the toll that injury has taken on his pace and the work he needs to do defensively are definite barriers.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be too negative but realistically if it walk's like a duck and quacks like a duck, you know the rest and to suddenly expect guys to break with past issues (inconsistency, injury, attitude) isn't always realistic. I'm not saying that these things can't change, just that when they begin to have a history of repeating then it becomes less of a chance that they will. Yes, some one can come from the clouds like Dahlhaus but there is usually a player on the other end who under performs also.
I think we're better off looking for further improvement from guys like Tutt, Jones, Cordy, Dahlhaus et al than expecting radical shifts from older guys.

I'm not one for stats generally speaking, but with Higgins we're talking about a guy who had a bad year and is turning 24 that produced numbers like this in 2011:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--shaun-higgins

Get some continuity in to his game with respect to injuries, and he is going to be an extremely valuable player. He might not have the game breaking ability of a Lake, Murphy, Cooney or Griffen of course, but for a first round draft pick he will be doing his job if he takes a solid defender to keep him quiet and kicks a goal or two a game, gets involved in a few others and provides increasing cover in the midfield on the rotation.

He is an extremely talented player, who has had some terrible luck with injuries early in his career. He is also a player the opposition will concentrate on to nullify week in, week out. We don't have many of those, particularly in his area of the ground and without him a lesser player of ours gets a better defender, and so on.

[Sedat]

I'm not one for stats generally speaking, but with Higgins we're talking about a guy who had a bad year and is turning 24 that produced numbers like this in 2011:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--shaun-higgins

Get some continuity in to his game with respect to injuries, and he is going to be an extremely valuable player. He might not have the game breaking ability of a Lake, Murphy, Cooney or Griffen of course, but for a first round draft pick he will be doing his job if he takes a solid defender to keep him quiet and kicks a goal or two a game, gets involved in a few others and provides increasing cover in the midfield on the rotation.

He is an extremely talented player, who has had some terrible luck with injuries early in his career. He is also a player the opposition will concentrate on to nullify week in, week out. We don't have many of those, particularly in his area of the ground and without him a lesser player of ours gets a better defender, and so on.
I don't think anybody doubts his talent or understands that he has had a rotten time of it with injuries for most of his career to date. But it doesn't take rare talent or ability to chase the opposition with intent when they are in possession - Higgins (and maybe this might have been attrributed to injury last season - he then should not have played) flatly refused to do this on a number of occasions, instead wildly gesticulating to his teammates further upfield to cover for him and do his dirty work. I want to see him work as hard with the ball in the opposition's hands as he does when we are in possession.

[Ghost Dog]

I don't think anybody doubts his talent or understands that he has had a rotten time of it with injuries for most of his career to date. But it doesn't take rare talent or ability to chase the opposition with intent when they are in possession - Higgins (and maybe this might have been attrributed to injury last season - he then should not have played) flatly refused to do this on a number of occasions, instead wildly gesticulating to his teammates further upfield to cover for him and do his dirty work. I want to see him work as hard with the ball in the opposition's hands as he does when we are in possession.

Someone else made the comment once that when he goes to ground, he often doesn't spring back up, just lying there for a few seconds. I had seen him do this a few times and it frustrated me!! I watched for it in 2011 but didn't see it in the games I went to.

[jeemak]

I don't think anybody doubts his talent or understands that he has had a rotten time of it with injuries for most of his career to date. But it doesn't take rare talent or ability to chase the opposition with intent when they are in possession - Higgins (and maybe this might have been attrributed to injury last season - he then should not have played) flatly refused to do this on a number of occasions, instead wildly gesticulating to his teammates further upfield to cover for him and do his dirty work. I want to see him work as hard with the ball in the opposition's hands as he does when we are in possession.

Like any player he has his flaws, and I agree his attitude towards the defensive side of the game is an area in which he must improve. I just think that people critique him harshly compared to others on our list.

[Cyberdoggie]

Sherman has been a consistent goal kicker over his career and scored 30 at Brisbane in 09.

If he's playing up forward all the time then he needs to kick more than that.

We can't have a small permanent forward only contribute 30 goals for the year unless he's adding to the midfield rotations.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If he's playing up forward all the time then he needs to kick more than that.

We can't have a small permanent forward only contribute 30 goals for the year unless he's adding to the midfield rotations.

If any small forward kicks 30 goals a year, that's a very good year.

Sherman will spend time in the midfield, so if he managed to get close to 30 -- it'd be a great achievement.

[KT31]

If any small forward kicks 30 goals a year, that's a very good year.

Sherman will spend time in the midfield, so if he managed to get close to 30 -- it'd be a great achievement.

Not to sure about great, it would be a solid performance.
In the past we have had Brown and Brad kick 50 goals playing the same role.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not to sure about great, it would be a solid performance.
In the past we have had Brown and Brad kick 50 goals playing the same role.

Obviously Johnson and Brown were elite players though. Sherman isn't -- you can't set the bar at the same height for everyone.

Not too many small forwards reach 30 goals a year -- it's a very good achievement from any that do. The ones that surpass that (Betts, Garlett) are worth their weight in gold.

[bornadog]

Obviously Johnson and Brown were elite players though. Sherman isn't -- you can't set the bar at the same height for everyone.

Not too many small forwards reach 30 goals a year -- it's a very good achievement from any that do. The ones that surpass that (Betts, Garlett) are worth their weight in gold.

Gia;)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Gia;)

Absolutely.

[KT31]

Obviously Johnson and Brown were elite players though. Sherman isn't -- you can't set the bar at the same height for everyone.

Not too many small forwards reach 30 goals a year -- it's a very good achievement from any that do. The ones that surpass that (Betts, Garlett) are worth their weight in gold.

Paul Hudson;)

[bornadog]

Paul Hudson;)

I loved Paul Hudson.

[Mantis]

Fallen away so quickly?

Signs were bad in 2010. The situation got a whole lot worse in 2011.

In any case, we made three consecutive preliminary finals. We just weren't good enough -- change was needed, it happened, and now we begin again.

I'm surprised by the amount of doom and gloom. IMO 2010/2011 were painful. You knew we were NEVER going to challenge the top sides, particularly in 2010.

I'm looking forward to seeing how we tackle a new era.

2010 was going along pretty well until half the team got wiped by a virus & then our 2 best players got injured very late in the season.

Leading up to the game against Geelong (when we got thumped) we were going as well as anyone.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

2010 was going along pretty well until half the team got wiped by a virus & then our 2 best players got injured very late in the season.

Leading up to the game against Geelong (when we got thumped) we were going as well as anyone.

Not really.

We again didn't beat the top three sides and never really looked like challenging. We were never on the same level as Collingwood, Geelong and St. Kilda (despite blowing a game against them).

We had a decent late run when we defeated Adelaide (and Freo?) but that soon crashed. For much of the year, we were struggling to make top four.

We were certainly never decisive, or going as well as anyone.

[Mantis]

Not really.

We again didn't beat the top three sides and never really looked like challenging. We were never on the same level as Collingwood, Geelong and St. Kilda (despite blowing a game against them).

We had a decent late run when we defeated Adelaide (and Freo?) but that soon crashed. For much of the year, we were struggling to make top four.

We were certainly never decisive, or going as well as anyone.

I'll agree to disagree with you then won't I.

But going into rd 20, we were just 4pts off 2nd spot and had just won 7 of our last 8, our only loss being to Haw by 3 pts... We were going ok.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'll agree to disagree with you then won't I.

But going into rd 20, we were just 4pts off 2nd spot and had just won 7 of our last 8, our only loss being to Haw by 3 pts... We were going ok.

Yeah, but as I said -- we hadn't beaten anyone of note.

We beat Carlton (they were just OK), Port (Crap), Freo (Injury riddled), North (Crap), Adelaide (Average).

The only solid team was Hawthorn (they'd won about 6 or 7 in a row) and we narrowly lost.

We always knew we wouldn't/couldn't compete with the top three, even if we thumped the crap sides, and that's why it was a disappointing season. The injuries at the end to Cooney/Morris just made sure of it.

[westdog54]

I'll agree to disagree with you then won't I.

But going into rd 20, we were just 4pts off 2nd spot and had just won 7 of our last 8, our only loss being to Haw by 3 pts... We were going ok.

The problem with 2010 was that there was daylight between the Top 2 and us. I take your point about the virus having an effect but even without it I don't think we were going to mount much of a challenge to either of the Grand Finalists or Geelong.