In Appreciation of Loyalty [Archive] - Whitten Oval Online Forum

LostDoggy

28-02-2012, 12:53 PM

It was mentioned on another thread that the attention Griff got for his display of loyalty was far less than that Ward received for being a turncoat (never mind that this was the natural consequence of Griff intentionally making it a low-key affair in the off-season while the Wards' economy with the truth was plastered all over the papers for the best part of 12 months).

This thread is an attempt to correct that imbalance. Griff may have wanted it to be a non-story because that's the great, stand-up guy he is, but it really is a fantastic story that has, in the words of another poster, been greatly under-reported. I know most of us have already had our say on the thread where the news was broken, but here's another chance to have a chat about loyalty in general. What are the greatest displays of club loyalty we've seen in our the history of our proud club?

Granty's story is well known, and it would be great to see some more posts celebrating Griff. Who else should we be celebrating?

Bulldog Joe

28-02-2012, 01:05 PM

Well said Lantern.

The problem of course is that the selfless acts do not get reported.

I suspect Griff would have attracted a substantial offer from GWS or any club under free agency. He has simply turned off the heat by deciding early to stick with the Dogs and not resorted to playing silly games through "his management" to leverage the best deal.

Mantis

28-02-2012, 01:11 PM

Perhaps we gave him an offer too good to refuse... Just saying. ;)

Desipura

28-02-2012, 01:12 PM

Good post, we should be celebrating this player for showing loyalty by wanting to play with his teammate, I therefore salute Sam Reid for enabling us to obtain a 3rd round pick for a player that was going to be delisted.

LostDoggy

28-02-2012, 02:31 PM

good post, we should be celebrating this player for showing loyalty by wanting to play with his teammate, i therefore salute sam reid for enabling us to obtain a 3rd round pick for a player that was going to be delisted.

Funny! :D

LostDoggy

28-02-2012, 02:35 PM

Perhaps we gave him an offer too good to refuse... Just saying. ;)

What ARE you saying M? ;)

ps. this is an interesting corollary to the 'loyalty' discussion. We say that some players are more loyal than others, but it's probably easier to stay loyal if you get top dollar!

pps. Having said that, both Grant and Griff would have been paid SUBSTANTIALLY higher by Port and GWS respectively than their admittedly fabulous Dogs' contracts (up to double, according to some reports). Some may say that it's easy to turn down big money when you're already on big money, but Ward, for argument's sake, wasn't going to be a pauper on the offer that the Dogs made him, yet chose to leave for bigger money. Just saying.

Mofra

28-02-2012, 02:41 PM

Pretty sure Griff also had a lucrative offer from Essendon he turned down.

I think Terry Wallace needs to be acknowledged here.
Despite being on the Richmond payroll, he was so loyal to the dogs he offered pick 19 for Jordan McMahon. Thank you, Terry.

LostDoggy

28-02-2012, 02:42 PM

Mantis

28-02-2012, 03:59 PM

What ARE you saying M? ;)

ps. this is an interesting corollary to the 'loyalty' discussion. We say that some players are more loyal than others, but it's probably easier to stay loyal if you get top dollar!

pps. Having said that, both Grant and Griff would have been paid SUBSTANTIALLY higher by Port and GWS respectively than their admittedly fabulous Dogs' contracts (up to double, according to some reports). Some may say that it's easy to turn down big money when you're already on big money, but Ward, for argument's sake, wasn't going to be a pauper on the offer that the Dogs made him, yet chose to leave for bigger money. Just saying.

What I might be saying is perhaps after losing quality players the previous couple of years we may have jumped in with a 'juicy' offer to retain Griff... Just saying. :)

Mofra

28-02-2012, 05:06 PM

Does Terry Wheeler qualify in 89 by saying he'd coach us for nothing in 1990 if we survived?

He's one of the few ex-coaches in the AFL that is more than welcome back at his old club.

Ghost Dog

28-02-2012, 05:06 PM

Free agency.....dark clouds forming on the horizon.

bornadog

28-02-2012, 05:17 PM

All the players that started and finished their AFL career at the bulldogs.

I appreciate every one of them.

Dancin' Douggy

28-02-2012, 05:42 PM

Peter Gordon.

Prince Imperial

28-02-2012, 08:49 PM

We all like to criticise Higgins but he rejected an offer from GC double what we offered so should be respected for that.

Dancin' Douggy

28-02-2012, 08:57 PM

We all like to criticise Higgins but he rejected an offer from GC double what we offered so should be respected for that.

Good one.

LostDoggy

29-02-2012, 12:08 AM

Collingwood tried to coax Scott West from the kennel didn't they?

jeemak

29-02-2012, 12:15 AM

Collingwood tried to coax Scott West from the kennel didn't they?

Essendon did the same, with from memory a less than agreeable offer and some underhanded emotional BS (hopefully someone can back me on this, early to mid 2000's remain somewhat of a post uni drop out disposable income alcohol infused haze :D).

strebla

29-02-2012, 10:51 AM

I recall Dougie Hawkins getting a big offer from the Bombres in the mid eighties but stayed I always admired him for that.

Cyberdoggie

29-02-2012, 11:33 AM

I love Griffen,

People always bring up that we could of drafted Lance Franklin instead of Griffen.

But then we might of ended up with Tambling instead of Williams, and more importantly we wouldn't have Griffen. Granted he has taken a while to really hit his straps but he continues to improve and i think he's set for a big year this year.

Just on that 2004 national draft:
We could of picked up Nathan Van Berlo, Matt Rosa or Mark Le Cras, instead of Jesse Wells.

What an addition any of those players would of been.

LostDoggy

29-02-2012, 02:40 PM

All the players that started and finished their AFL career at the bulldogs.

I appreciate every one of them.

Good one BAD. I even appreciate most solid players who gave most of their careers to the Dogs but left at the end with the club's blessings to eke out a couple of years towards the end of their careers. Not as 'romantic' as a truly one-club player, but still commendable for the amount of service they've given the club.

How about players who have come from other clubs but were great servants anyway? It's an interesting one because we often think of players who change clubs as 'disloyal' in some way, but of course a lot of players don't get a lot of choice when a club wants to trade them out, so I am grateful that someone like, say, Eagleton gave as much to the club as he did, even though he was part of the hated Monty trade.

Monty himself is an interesting case-study in 'loyalty', as he may be a unique example of a genuinely loyal TWO-club player, having given great service to two clubs, winning a premiership and starting his assistant coaching career at Port, but both times coming back to the Dogs (under differing circumstances).

Desipura

29-02-2012, 02:44 PM

Mofra

29-02-2012, 04:11 PM

How about players who have come from other clubs but were great servants anyway?
Similar to players that were cut by other clubs before they had a chance, then had celebrated careers with us? Wynd & Libba spring to mind.

bornadog

29-02-2012, 05:17 PM

How about those players that were sold off to other clubs because we were in financial trouble? Some of the players were happy to stay but the club had no choice but to sell them off.

Still disloyal

GVGjr

29-02-2012, 07:02 PM

All the players that started and finished their AFL career at the bulldogs.

I appreciate every one of them.

How about those players that were sold off to other clubs because we were in financial trouble? Some of the players were happy to stay but the club had no choice but to sell them off.

Still disloyal

So in your opinion the likes of Dempsey, Quinlan, Templeton and Hawkins were disloyal?

I think I get where you are coming from but I don't think it's as clear cut what you are indicating.

Greystache

29-02-2012, 07:32 PM

Still disloyal

The player or the club?

GVGjr

29-02-2012, 09:45 PM

The player or the club?

Just a guess but I don't think BAD was referring to the club.

Sockeye Salmon

01-03-2012, 12:18 AM

So in your opinion the likes of Dempsey, Quinlan, Templeton and Hawkins were disloyal?

I think I get where you are coming from but I don't think it's as clear cut what you are indicating.

Dempsey and Templeton were, certainly.

Quinlan was sold, I don't think he even had a say in it.

Hawkins did it for the right reasons.

GVGjr

01-03-2012, 06:27 AM

Dempsey and Templeton were, certainly.

Quinlan was sold, I don't think he even had a say in it.

Hawkins did it for the right reasons.
Which is the reason why I challenged the statement that you are disloyal if you aren't a one club player because in my opinion it can't be applied across the board.

Desipura

01-03-2012, 09:08 AM

Which is the reason why I challenged the statement that you are disloyal if you aren't a one club player because in my opinion it can't be applied across the board.

Totally agree, hence why I asked the question originally.

westdog54

01-03-2012, 10:02 AM

All the players that started and finished their AFL career at the bulldogs.

I appreciate every one of them.

Does that include Brett Montgomery?

strebla

01-03-2012, 10:28 AM

Similar to players that were cut by other clubs before they had a chance, then had celebrated careers with us? Wynd & Libba spring to mind.

We got Libba from Nth but I don't recall Scott Wynd playing for anyone else.

Sockeye Salmon

01-03-2012, 11:16 AM

We got Libba from Nth but I don't recall Scott Wynd playing for anyone else.

Wynd was in North's zone and we would probably had to have been given a clearance by North to play for us, but he never played for North.

His younger brother did.

strebla

01-03-2012, 11:22 AM

Yes I knew Paul was there but Scott was and always will only be a bulldog .Just on players from nth who had an impact Jose really changed his game after landing at the kennel.

Mofra

01-03-2012, 12:12 PM

Wynd was in North's zone and we would probably had to have been given a clearance by North to play for us, but he never played for North.
My memory must be off, I thought he was actually knocked back as a junior due to being in their zone?
Might be confusing it with the Libba story though, as he played buoth u19s and reserves for North.

bornadog

01-03-2012, 05:14 PM

The player or the club?

If a player gets delisted or sold off like Quinlan was, obviously they are not disloyal.

bornadog

01-03-2012, 05:15 PM

Does that include Brett Montgomery?

haha good one, you got me there.

Greystache

01-03-2012, 05:22 PM

If a player gets delisted or sold off like Quinlan was, obviously they are not disloyal.

Is the club then in that case?

bornadog

01-03-2012, 05:24 PM

Is the club then in that case?

Hard to say a club can be disloyal when there are lots of factors when delisting. However, back in Quinlans days the club administration was a disgrace and didn't have a clue how to make it financially viable, so they sold off players.

LostDoggy

01-03-2012, 05:55 PM

Hard to say a club can be disloyal when there are lots of factors when delisting. However, back in Quinlans days the club administration was a disgrace and didn't have a clue how to make it financially viable, so they sold off players.

In other words, in that case, yes; clubs can be disloyal.

I do think clubs can definitely do the wrong thing by players, which makes loyalty difficult because it makes players think about themselves. This thread isn't about saying that every player who's ever looked out for himself in a difficult time is 'disloyal' -- plenty of players have left for understandable reasons -- but I guess this makes the players who stick fat even more impressive.

We keep coming back to Granty because his act largely saved a club close to death when it would have been probably the 'smarter' thing to go to a club that ended up winning a flag shortly after. That takes some serious character.

westdog54

01-03-2012, 10:27 PM

haha good one, you got me there.

I was quite proud of that one, personally:D

Mofra

02-03-2012, 10:36 AM

Brian Lake?
No doubt he would have been worth more on the open market - did hear years ago he was indebted to the club for taking a punt on him and spending the $$$ to fix his apnea.

GVGjr

02-03-2012, 09:00 PM

Brian Lake?
No doubt he would have been worth more on the open market - did hear years ago he was indebted to the club for taking a punt on him and spending the $$$ to fix his apnea.

I'm not so sure about Brian. His contract negotiation was a frustrating and long process where he moved the goal post a few too many times for my liking. I don't mind players that negotiate hard but if the original asking price/deal is met you shouldn't up it without a very good reason.

ledge

02-03-2012, 10:10 PM

I'm not so sure about Brian. His contract negotiation was a frustrating and long process where he moved the goal post a few too many times for my liking. I don't mind players that negotiate hard but if the original asking price/deal is met you shouldn't up it without a very good reason.

Or was it his manager?