Terry Wallace says - Current team Weakest since 1996 team.

[bornadog]

Claims will still beat Melbourne on Sunday, but the current team is the weakest since the 1996 team.

[Axe Man]

What about 2003-04? I still consider myself lucky to have been overseas for most of the 2003 season, wonder if it's too late to jet off again this year?:(

[FrediKanoute]

The 1996 team wasn't weak, it was simply injury ravaged and unfit. Weak sides don't suddely over a summer become less than a goal shy of a premiership.

[DragzLS1]

The 1996 team wasn't weak, it was simply injury ravaged and unfit. Weak sides don't suddely over a summer become less than a goal shy of a premiership.


I think we are currently 1 of the most injury ravaged team in the comp. I could see 3 players coming in and making a big difference.. Worst forward line since 1996 I can see though :(

[Eastdog]

Comparsion to what Wallace said: West Coast 2010 bottom of the ladder - West Coast 2011 Prelim Final Birth. Was West Coast bad in 2010 or was it injuries and other things behind the reason they did poorly.

[chef]

Claims will still beat Melbourne on Sunday, but the current team is the weakest since the 1996 team.

Kind of agree. We don't have the same talent of kids and talent on our list that we had coming through in 2002-04 period IMO.

[chef]

Comparsion to what Wallace said: West Coast 2010 bottom of the ladder - West Coast 2011 Prelim Final Birth. Was West Coast bad in 2010 or was it injuries and other things behind the reason they did poorly.

You can't do comparisons just on ladder positions, there's a whole lot of other variables you need to take into account.

[Eastdog]

You can't do comparisons just on ladder positions, there's a whole lot of other variables you need to take into account.

What do you think are the other variables?

[Sockeye Salmon]

Comparsion to what Wallace said: West Coast 2010 bottom of the ladder - West Coast 2011 Prelim Final Birth. Was West Coast bad in 2010 or was it injuries and other things behind the reason they did poorly.

In 1010, West Coast started sending blokes off for end-of-season surgery in March

[bornadog]

Kind of agree. We don't have the same talent of kids and talent on our list that we had coming through in 2002-04 period IMO.

I think the talent in the team in 1996 was under estimated and we know they were on the verge of a few good years. I can't see the same with the current team as there are too many players with less than 50 games, then a gap and then 7 with over 150 games. Those seven will not contribute greatly next year and therefore, next years team will be even worse. I can't see us off the bottom till at least the 2014 season.

[chef]

What do you think are the other variables?

The age, fitness and talent of the guys on the lists, game plans, coaching teams, fixtures etc etc

[Ghost Dog]

Claims will still beat Melbourne on Sunday, but the current team is the weakest since the 1996 team.

Sorry BAD, do you have the link for this article?
Cheers
Gdawg

[chef]

What do you think are the other variables?

The age, fitness and talent of the guys on the lists, game plans, coaching teams, fixtures etc etc

[Ghost Dog]

He wouldn't be wrong I guess, but sorry can I just say, I'm a bit of a masochist and there are advantages to being an underdog, as there's only one way up...
Compare this to my Carlton supporter friend who is a nervous wreck already and it's only round 4

[Remi Moses]

The 03 04 team was unfit, poorly coached outfit that had potential.
The 96 team had everything go wrong. It can turn very quickly and if you'd said 2 years ago West Coast would now be a force, you'd be sent to the nuthouse ASAP

[Eastdog]

The 03 04 team was unfit, poorly coached outfit that had potential.
The 96 team had everything go wrong. It can turn very quickly and if you'd said 2 years ago West Coast would now be a force, you'd be sent to the nuthouse ASAP

Even Geelong at one stage before they become so good were struggling and even there were calls to sack Bomber Thompson. That game when they won by 157 points against Richmond 2007 was a match if they lost that day where Bomber could have got sacked. We will be back up there again. We are just at that stage once again of rebuilding and development. This years draft looks quite good.

[Rocco Jones]

The 1996 team wasn't weak, it was simply injury ravaged and unfit. Weak sides don't suddely over a summer become less than a goal shy of a premiership.


I think the talent in the team in 1996 was under estimated and we know they were on the verge of a few good years. I can't see the same with the current team as there are too many players with less than 50 games, then a gap and then 7 with over 150 games. Those seven will not contribute greatly next year and therefore, next years team will be even worse. I can't see us off the bottom till at least the 2014 season.

Agree with these comments. Hmm who took over at the end of 1996? Any chance that guy would want to devalue the 96 team to enhance his accomplishments over the following couple of years? Nah, you'd have to be really vain to do that!

[bornadog]

Sorry BAD, do you have the link for this article?
Cheers
Gdawg

Terry said this on SEN this afternoon.

[Maddog37]

Agree with these comments. Hmm who took over at the end of 1996? Any chance that guy would want to devalue the 96 team to enhance his accomplishments over the following couple of years? Nah, you'd have to be really vain to do that!

No way. Terry vain!?! Never:p

[Rocco Jones]

No way. Terry vain!?! Never:p

Yeah no way. That's middle aged man using tanning beds everyday vain.

[Ghost Dog]

Sorry, but I quite like Terry Wallace. He says some good stuff about footy and he is a Bulldog for life. In this case, I disagree with him. Ayce Cordy is a rough diamond who will show us his stuff pretty soon.

[LostDoggy]

Agree with these comments. Hmm who took over at the end of 1996? Any chance that guy would want to devalue the 96 team to enhance his accomplishments over the following couple of years? Nah, you'd have to be really vain to do that!

That was my line of thinking, maybe pessimistic but seems like fairly transparent self promotion. Aker will come out next to say he was the reason we made some prelims...

[jeemak]

Agree with these comments. Hmm who took over at the end of 1996? Any chance that guy would want to devalue the 96 team to enhance his accomplishments over the following couple of years? Nah, you'd have to be really vain to do that!

Let alone talk down the state of the place after he left................

[Dry Rot]

It's fine to shoot Wallace the messenger but I think he's right.

IMO we have the worst list now that I can remember since 1998.

At least the 2004 team IIRC had West, Smith, Darcy, Grant and Johnno. And a young recruit who would win a Brownlow.

In our current team, only Murph and Griff can be compared to those players.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with these comments. Hmm who took over at the end of 1996? Any chance that guy would want to devalue the 96 team to enhance his accomplishments over the following couple of years? Nah, you'd have to be really vain to do that!

Very vain and self absorbed . No need to re-hash Terry's mistakes as he learnt a valuable lesson and repeated them at Richmond

[SonofScray]

A bit harsh on the 1996 group I feel. For reasons stated already.

The real challenge for this group is the lack of star power, with the added repeat 04 issue: a lack of balance in quality players across a few age groups. We're going to struggle a bit I fear.

[MrMahatma]

It's fine to shoot Wallace the messenger but I think he's right.

IMO we have the worst list now that I can remember since 1998.

At least the 2004 team IIRC had West, Smith, Darcy, Grant and Johnno. And a young recruit who would win a Brownlow.

In our current team, only Murph and Griff can be compared to those players.
We still have:

- Griff, Murph, Lake, Cooney, Boyd, Morris (injured - granted)

We're probably 1 decent fwd of being relatively decent.

I'm feeling optimistic tonight.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think Dry Rot is closer to the mark than Id like him to be

We just can't argue with our results, and over the past 14 months they've been ordinary - and we have some very ordinary players on our list and too many who have yet to establish themselves as senior players




We're probably 1 decent fwd of being relatively decent.

I'm feeling optimistic tonight.

Assuming you are right, and I don't mean to bring you down, but we just don't have a Franklin on our horizon, but I guess maybe the draft at the end of the year will see us land a Hurley type

[Dry Rot]

We still have:

- Griff, Murph, Lake, Cooney, Boyd, Morris (injured - granted)

.

Disagree.

The 2012 versions of Lake, Cooney and Morris don't belong on that list (in the context of the discussion).

Doubt Boyd does either - he wouldn't have a got a gig in any of the top 5 teams of last year.

Which leaves Griff and Murphy, who will soon retire.

Our list is poor.

[Dry Rot]

I think Dry Rot is closer to the mark than Id like him to be

We just can't argue with our results, and over the past 14 months they've been ordinary - and we have some very ordinary players on our list and too many who have yet to establish themselves as senior players



Agreed - and IMO Hall wallpapered the cracks of trend down while he was here.

[jeemak]

Disagree.

The 2012 versions of Lake, Cooney and Morris don't belong on that list (in the context of the discussion).

Doubt Boyd does either - he wouldn't have a got a gig in any of the top 5 teams of last year.
Which leaves Griff and Murphy, who will soon retire.

Our list is poor.

Come on Dry Rot. Really?

Agree that we have a very ordinary spread of talent across age groups.

[Remi Moses]

Disagree.

The 2012 versions of Lake, Cooney and Morris don't belong on that list (in the context of the discussion).

Doubt Boyd does either - he wouldn't have a got a gig in any of the top 5 teams of last year.

Which leaves Griff and Murphy, who will soon retire.

Our list is poor.

Boyd? You're kidding, surely:eek:
We're paying a price for poor recruiting in 06
I'd rather have some pain than finish in AFL no Man's land
( hello Saints)

[Sockeye Salmon]

Doubt Boyd does either - he wouldn't have a got a gig in any of the top 5 teams of last year.



Just about the most stupid thing written on here this year.

[Dry Rot]

Boyd? You're kidding, surely:eek:



Come on Dry Rot. Really?



Yep. Don't think his poor disposal would be tolerated in those teams. He would get into say the next 4 teams of last year, along with possibly Libba and/or Dalhaus as development players.

And there's our problem - we have just 4 or 5 players in 2012 who would make any of the top half of the teams from 2011.

We are in trouble, and need a full rebuild.

[Dry Rot]

Just about the most stupid thing written on here this year.

Why? His shocking disposal would rule him out of those teams.

[Eastdog]

I definitely think we are in that stage again of "rebuilding" but I still think we are a lot better at the moment then some other teams in the competition. We most likely won't make the 8 this year but in a couple of years will be pushing once again for the 8. I do think that yes there are question marks on some of our players on our list like Higgins, Minson, Wood, Addison.

[jeemak]

Yep. Don't think his poor disposal would be tolerated in those teams. He would get into say the next 4 teams of last year, along with possibly Libba and/or Dalhaus as development players.

And there's our problem - we have just 4 or 5 players in 2012 who would make any of the top half of the teams from 2011.

We are in trouble, and need a full rebuild.

There's been plenty of worse midfielders to play in premierships than Boyd.

There's been plenty of worse players to win a premiership that Picken, Giansiracusa, Higgins, Tom Williams.........we could name a few more.

Agree that we're in ordinary shape, but that doesn't mean we should be silly about things.

[Dry Rot]

There's been plenty of worse players to win a premiership that Picken, Giansiracusa, Higgins, Tom Williams.........we could name a few more.

Agree that we're in ordinary shape, but that doesn't mean we should be silly about things.

Would any of those players (as they are playing this year) have made the top 5 teams of 2011? Maybe Picken, that's it.

[Eastdog]

Would any of those players (as they are playing this year) have made the top 5 teams of 2011? Maybe Picken, that's it.

You could make a case a little for Gia out of those players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why? His shocking disposal would rule him out of those teams.

I'm not Boyd's biggest fan, but you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think Boyd wouldn't walk straight into any midfield in the league.

Imagine Mitchell and Boyd in the same side -- they'd never lose a clearance. Ever.

We are in average shape but it doesn't mean we are totally devoid of good players.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Also, DR, you do realise that Josh Hill is getting regular games in a side that was top four last year and quite likely top two this year?

[LostDoggy]

Also, DR, you do realise that Josh Hill is getting regular games in a side that was top four last year and quite likely top two this year?

You have put Mr Hudson in there to , The Peoples Beard had 14 possessions and 33 hitouts in yesterdays game and is probably the Lions No1 ruckman now that Leuenberger has a long term injury

On the other side of the coin in the NRL , Parramatta have the best record this side of the equator of offloading players and they either play finals or win a Grand Final in the next two years

.

[Ghost Dog]

Also, DR, you do realise that Josh Hill is getting regular games in a side that was top four last year and quite likely top two this year?

Very good point BB. Who would have claimed last year that JH would have gotten a game in a top four side? Some people on here are way too negative on our own players.

[Sedat]

Also, DR, you do realise that Josh Hill is getting regular games in a side that was top four last year and quite likely top two this year?Agree with your sentiment, although it is debatable that Josh Hill would be getting a game if Le Cras and Nickoski were both fit.

[Ghost Dog]

Agree with your sentiment, although it is debatable that Josh Hill would be getting a game if Le Cras and Nickoski were both fit.

And Boyd? Do you agree he wouldn't be getting a role in a senior top four side?

[azabob]

Also, DR, you do realise that Josh Hill is getting regular games in a side that was top four last year and quite likely top two this year?


Agree with your sentiment, although it is debatable that Josh Hill would be getting a game if Le Cras and Nickoski were both fit.


And Boyd? Do you agree he wouldn't be getting a role in a senior top four side?

I agree with Sedat, injuries have helped Hill get a game. Le Cras and Nickosiki would be playing ahead of Hill.

GD, where did anyone say Boyd wouldn't get a game in a top four team? Of course he'd get a game at any other club in the AFL.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with Sedat, injuries have helped Hill get a game. Le Cras and Nickosiki would be playing ahead of Hill.

GD, where did anyone say Boyd wouldn't get a game in a top four team? Of course he'd get a game at any other club in the AFL.

My mistake - top 5 teams from last year, see below.


Disagree.

The 2012 versions of Lake, Cooney and Morris don't belong on that list (in the context of the discussion).

Doubt Boyd does either - he wouldn't have a got a gig in any of the top 5 teams of last year.

Which leaves Griff and Murphy, who will soon retire.

Our list is poor.


Why? His shocking disposal would rule him out of those teams.

[Desipura]

There was a positive article in yesterdays paper about Jay Schutlz's form since moving to Port.
No surprise that Wallace was quoted as saying he always rated Schultz and would not have traded him. Whatever makes Terry look good he will let everyone know whether true or not.

[LostDoggy]

There was a positive article in yesterdays paper about Jay Schutlz's form since moving to Port.
No surprise that Wallace was quoted as saying he always rated Schultz and would not have traded him. Whatever makes Terry look good he will let everyone know whether true or not.

True. More spin than Warne.
This article is more about making himself look good.

[Desipura]

True. More spin than Warne.
This article is more about making himself look good.
Im awaiting an article on how successful the recruiting of Rawlings and Streety were, just to name a few. Especially giving up pick 17 for Streety for memory!

[azabob]

My mistake - top 5 teams from last year, see below.

GD you are to kind! My mistake, not yours.

[Sedat]

There was a positive article in yesterdays paper about Jay Schutlz's form since moving to Port.Everyone wants to jump on the Schulz bandwagon now :)

[MrMahatma]

Disagree.

The 2012 versions of Lake, Cooney and Morris don't belong on that list (in the context of the discussion).

Doubt Boyd does either - he wouldn't have a got a gig in any of the top 5 teams of last year.

Which leaves Griff and Murphy, who will soon retire.

Our list is poor.
As said - I'm feeling optimistic.

2012 Lake has been pretty good. 2011 - sure. But I still think he'll be in the best few key defenders in the comp this season.

Do you think any of the crop coming through will be elite:

- Dahlhaus
- Libba
- Jones
- Grant
- Wallis
- Smith
- Cordy
- Roughead

?

[jeemak]

Would any of those players (as they are playing this year) have made the top 5 teams of 2011? Maybe Picken, that's it.

Would Higgins and Gia be starved of the clean opportunities like they have been this year at one of the better performed clubs?

Ordinary players are made to look serviceable in a good side, better than average players can be made to look like guns in good sides. The reverse happens to the same players when in a side that's performing poorly.

Anyway, I don't think you'll come around to that type of thinking so I'll leave it there.

[Maddog37]

Anyone see the list of names in today's paper about assist leaders from the Boomer article?

Fair list of players and Gia in the middle of it.

[Dry Rot]

Would Higgins and Gia be starved of the clean opportunities like they have been this year at one of the better performed clubs?

Ordinary players are made to look serviceable in a good side, better than average players can be made to look like guns in good sides. The reverse happens to the same players when in a side that's performing poorly.

Anyway, I don't think you'll come around to that type of thinking so I'll leave it there.

That's a fair point but I don't think the 2012 versions of those two are very good. Maybe it's the side around them now, or maybe it's just them.

[Dry Rot]

As said - I'm feeling optimistic.

2012 Lake has been pretty good. 2011 - sure. But I still think he'll be in the best few key defenders in the comp this season.

Do you think any of the crop coming through will be elite:

- Dahlhaus
- Libba
- Jones
- Grant
- Wallis
- Smith
- Cordy
- Roughead

?

- Dahlhaus - possible
- Libba - possible
- Jones - no
- Grant - no
- Wallis- no
- Smith - possible if he learns to kick
- Cordy - dunno
- Roughead - doubt it

[Eastdog]

- Dahlhaus - possible
- Libba - possible
- Jones - no
- Grant - no
- Wallis- no
- Smith - possible if he learns to kick
- Cordy - dunno
- Roughead - doubt it

Jones and Wallis still I think have some potential. Jones needs to improve his kicking but he is a very good contested mark. Wallis is still only young and he hasn't played enough games yet to make any judgements on him.

[Rocco Jones]

As said - I'm feeling optimistic.

2012 Lake has been pretty good. 2011 - sure. But I still think he'll be in the best few key defenders in the comp this season.

Do you think any of the crop coming through will be elite:

- Dahlhaus
- Libba
- Jones
- Grant
- Wallis
- Smith
- Cordy
- Roughead

?

'Elite' is a very relative term. Where do you draw the line? Is it elite in their position? I also think players can be bumped up/down from being seen at elite due to playing in strong/poor sides and the affect of being/not being tagged is really underrated.

I believe our list is very poor but I am content (nothing more than that) with the 08, 09 and 10 national/rookie drafts, just think we are paying for a lot of poor drafting before that.

I think Dahl, Libba, Wallis, Cordy, Roughead, Hill, Howard and Tutt offer us a balance of promising players.

The selection of another toiler in Clay Smith last ND is confusing. Fair enough if they purely saw him as the best player available but it seems like we went in with his type at the top of our list.

The biggest problem with our list is that it is extremely unbalanced. Heaps of contested ball winners and talls but extremely light on for speed and foot skills. Having such a noticeably unbalanced list really compromises you on draft day. I really believe in the best available pick philosphy but we need to go with needs.

[Bulldog4life]

'Elite' is a very relative term. Where do you draw the line? Is it elite in their position? I also think players can be bumped up/down from being seen at elite due to playing in strong/poor sides and the affect of being/not being tagged is really underrated.

I believe our list is very poor but I am content (nothing more than that) with the 08, 09 and 10 national/rookie drafts, just think we are paying for a lot of poor drafting before that.

I think Dahl, Libba, Wallis, Cordy, Roughead, Hill, Howard and Tutt offer us a balance of promising players.

The selection of another toiler in Clay Smith last ND is confusing. Fair enough if they purely saw him as the best player available but it seems like we went in with his type at the top of our list.

The biggest problem with our list is that it is extremely unbalanced. Heaps of contested ball winners and talls but extremely light on for speed and foot skills. Having such a noticeably unbalanced list really compromises you on draft day. I really believe in the best available pick philosphy but we need to go with needs.

An in an under player he will be only in his early 20's when Boyd and Cross are gone. So he is a good pick for the future not necessarily for the present.

[Maddog37]

I think Smith will be more than a toiler. He has shown a bit more explosiveness than that.

[ledge]

Poor kid 3 games in, 4 goals in his first game and listed as a just a toiler.. what hope has he got.
If you judge on that, Shane Warne was a deadset spud and delisted off the Australian cricket team after 3 games if you were a selector.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I really believe in the best available pick philosphy but we need to go with needs.

Nobody has been in a better position to go best available pick philosophy over the past decade than Geelong.

And yet they've picked a whole swag of players that fill current needs on their list and in their team i.e Harry Taylor JPod, Orren Stephenson etc

You really have to do a mix of both, and the rookie draft really should enable you to do a bit of both because you have more picks and take fliers on some best performed and desperate state league players

[Sockeye Salmon]

Poor kid 3 games in, 4 goals in his first game and listed as a just a toiler.. what hope has he got.
If you judge on that, Shane Warne was a deadset spud and delisted off the Australian cricket team after 3 games if you were a selector.

And Marty McGrath would have won 3 Brownlows.


This isn't about what he has or hasn't done in his first 3 games, it's looking at his potential and thinking 'how much better can he be?'.

If his kicking can't improve he will always have a ceiling on how good he can get.

[Maddog37]

Same things would no doubt have been said about Luke Dalhaus.

[Doc26]

And Marty McGrath would have won 3 Brownlows.


This isn't about what he has or hasn't done in his first 3 games, it's looking at his potential and thinking 'how much better can he be?'.

If his kicking can't improve he will always have a ceiling on how good he can get.

Are we talking Rhys Palmer ?

[Bulldog Joe]

Im awaiting an article on how successful the recruiting of Rawlings and Streety were, just to name a few. Especially giving up pick 17 for Streety for memory!

While Terry has a few marks against him, you can't pin those on him.

Those great deals were manufactured by "The Mastermind" Peter Rohde.

and Hudson was picked up in the 50s by Adelaide.

[1eyedog]

Does this mean that next year we will be the best team since 1997?

[DragzLS1]

Same things would no doubt have been said about Luke Dalhaus.


Dahlhaus had no real attributes that stood out according to all reports, including his kicking.. Dont see anything holding little Dahl back ;) Smith might just follow in Lukes footsteps.. Hoping he does anyway :)

[Ghost Dog]

Dahlhaus had no real attributes that stood out according to all reports, including his kicking.. Dont see anything holding little Dahl back ;) Smith might just follow in Lukes footsteps.. Hoping he does anyway :)

Decision making is something you can't see easily on the outside at first. But over time, it makes its presence felt. Luke makes great choices and backs it up with a massive hunger for the ball. Footy Brains and Brawn.

[The Doctor]

If The Bulldogs win the premiership next year Wallace will find some way to take the credit for it. But for all that he is correct in this context. The list is weak and you can't expect it to remain strong when you lose players of the calibre of Johnson, Hall, Aker, Hudson in quick succession and have so many fading stars, ie Lake, Gilbee, Cooney etc.

However our drafting & list management has been poor.

- Clayton bungling so many first round picks
- Allowing 2 of our best youngsters Ward and Harbrow to leave (Fantasia Dept)
- Strange draft choices (Howard, Tutt, Thorne, Skinner)
- Unnecessary trades, Sherman, Djekurra and the price we paid for them.

Mistakes will always be made and you can't get everything right but we have a knack of stuffing things up when we are in a good position better than any other club.

[AndrewP6]

- Allowing 2 of our best youngsters Ward and Harbrow to leave (Fantasia Dept)

Mistakes will always be made and you can't get everything right but we have a knack of stuffing things up when we are in a good position better than any other club.

I'm not sure Fantasia and Co. just 'allowed' them to leave. Short of bankrupting the club (twice) what more could've been done? Harbrow left for mon...er, his family and girlfriend, and Ward left for mon...er, the next part of his "football journey"

[bornadog]

I'm not sure Fantasia and Co. just 'allowed' them to leave. Short of bankrupting the club (twice) what more could've been done? Harbrow left for mon...er, his family and girlfriend, and Ward left for mon...er, the next part of his "football journey"

but why didn't Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood lose anyone? Its a matter of how you negotiate and how you treat a player and the environment you create in the club.

[AndrewP6]

but why didn't Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood lose anyone? Its a matter of how you negotiate and how you treat a player and the environment you create in the club.

Or perhaps how underhandedly they work deals to be able to keep players there (Mr Visy Ambassador, anyone?)

[Hotdog60]

We should have got in early with Ward, if we valued him as a future player we should have extended his contract well before GWS came sniffing. The club knew about the expansion clubs coming in and should have acted to sign up our future stars.

[GVGjr]

We should have got in early with Ward, if we valued him as a future player we should have extended his contract well before GWS came sniffing. The club knew about the expansion clubs coming in and should have acted to sign up our future stars.

Exactly right. We waited to long to put a good offer in front of him and allowed his manager to shop him around. We could have him signed well before the 2011 season

[Maddog37]

In the end though he left for the cash. Nothing else.

[AndrewP6]

In the end though he left for the cash. Nothing else.

Don't forget his "football journey" :rolleyes:

[The Pie Man]

- Unnecessary trades, Sherman, Djekurra and the price we paid for them.

.

I won't argue with the price paid for the above, though our list is lacking in this important age bracket that these two reside in, and if those two and Vesz can start to have an impact, in the long run they maybe astute trades (despite what was given up)

While Addison has his detractors - and honestly looking like a waste of 50 games near the end of last season - he now has an opportunity to become a 100 game + player that honestly, we really need him (and others) to be.

From YOB 86 - 89 (23-26) you've got DFA, Dickson, Djekurra, Grant, Higgins, Mulligan, Picken, Sherman, Vesz, Williams & Wood.

No absolute stars (notwithstanding the deserved love for Picken) though those in bold I believe have a future - and other than Mulligan, the rest will be given opportunities. We really need this group to ...can someone help me with a phrase other than 'step up' ? :o

[bornadog]

We really need this group to ...can someone help me with a phrase other than 'step up' ? :o

Perform week in week out with some consistency and contribute to a winning team.:)

[Sedat]

Or perhaps how underhandedly they work deals to be able to keep players there (Mr Visy Ambassador, anyone?)
Care to explain how Norf kept Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein in successive years? Both were even higher up the GWS priority list than Ward.

It's hard to accept but the simple fact is that our club screwed up. The 'system' has been in place for every club, but only one team has lost two 200+ game players who were both U-23 to the expansion clubs.

[Ghost Dog]

Care to explain how Norf kept Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein in successive years? Both were even higher up the GWS priority list than Ward.

It's hard to accept but the simple fact is that our club screwed up. The 'system' has been in place for every club, but only one team has lost two 200+ game players who were both U-23 to the expansion clubs.

So we should have done some backroom deal? Handed them a free house in Seddon on top of their salary. Surely this would make us as bad as them.

[azabob]

Care to explain how Norf kept Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein in successive years? Both were even higher up the GWS priority list than Ward.

It's hard to accept but the simple fact is that our club screwed up. The 'system' has been in place for every club, but only one team has lost two 200+ game players who were both U-23 to the expansion clubs.


So we should have done some backroom deal? Handed them a free house in Seddon on top of their salary. Surely this would make us as bad as them.

North could not afford a back room deal.

[GVGjr]

So we should have done some backroom deal? Handed them a free house in Seddon on top of their salary. Surely this would make us as bad as them.

There is no need for a back room deal if you manage the list well and be aware of the warning signs. North identified that they had a couple of guys that would be likely targets and got on the front foot and signed them before it dragged out too long. Nothing sleazy about that. I believe the initial offer made an offer to Ward undervalued him and that got the ball rolling. Our next offer was substantially better but by then GWS had realised he was more open to hearing from them.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Care to explain how Norf kept Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein in successive years? Both were even higher up the GWS priority list than Ward.

It's hard to accept but the simple fact is that our club screwed up. The 'system' has been in place for every club, but only one team has lost two 200+ game players who were both U-23 to the expansion clubs.

I am not convinced the club screwed up with Ward's departure. The fault lies with the AFL in allowing younger players like Ward, Scully and Davis to be offered ridiculous sums of money without serving an adequate time with their original clubs.The continuing National expansion will continue to make our lack of financial resources difficult to compete in the future. Lack of membership growth remains our Achilles heel. I know the character of Andrew Swallow and his loyalty to North is to be admired and he is one that wouldn't be swayed by the almighty dollar. North's recruiting of players would appear better than ours and this is an area that be need to become a lot smarter at.

[Ghost Dog]

Anyway, getting back to the thread. Terry's claim is looking a bit dubious at the moment. Our team is not weak relative to number of games played. It is where it is at the development arc. With Sherman, Djekurra, Grant and Jones, Cordy, and Dahlhaus,our crew is on the younger side, untested largely across an entire season. Give us a full year to prove where we are at before you spit on the sons of the West Terry. And Yes Wallet, we are better than Melbourne, despite the fruits of their tanking.

[Remi Moses]

Does anyone seriously believe Ward's worth 4.5 for 5 years?
Silly Silly Money! Maybe just maybe he and his manager knew with the new teams in mind, they could hang out for big money.
At the moment we're paying for Clayton draft fails and the loss of senior players from our top 4 teams. Honestly how you can judge a young player on limited experience is minblowingly silly

[Sedat]

I am not convinced the club screwed up with Ward's departure. The fault lies with the AFL in allowing younger players like Ward, Scully and Davis to be offered ridiculous sums of money without serving an adequate time with their original clubs.There would not have been any ridiculous sums of money thrusted in Ward's direction had we bedded his contract extension down in mid 2010 as he wanted to do. We were too smart by half and it bit us on the arse big time 18 months later. The great irony is that we could have secured him for far less in mid 2010 than what we ultimately offered him in late 2011 to stay.

It's all academic now, but our list management has been a shambles in the last few seasons. One can only hope that Jason McCartney can stem the bleeding inflicted on our list.

[Sockeye Salmon]

I am not convinced the club screwed up with Ward's departure. The fault lies with the AFL in allowing younger players like Ward, Scully and Davis to be offered ridiculous sums of money without serving an adequate time with their original clubs.The continuing National expansion will continue to make our lack of financial resources difficult to compete in the future. Lack of membership growth remains our Achilles heel. I know the character of Andrew Swallow and his loyalty to North is to be admired and he is one that wouldn't be swayed by the almighty dollar. North's recruiting of players would appear better than ours and this is an area that be need to become a lot smarter at.

The AFL rules re: the start ups were disgusting, no two ways about it; but we did right royally stuff up the Ward deal ourselves

[LostDoggy]

Dahlhaus had no real attributes that stood out according to all reports, including his kicking.. Dont see anything holding little Dahl back ;) Smith might just follow in Lukes footsteps.. Hoping he does anyway :)

From the moment he played in the vfl reserves reports were that he was the hungriest young player people had seen in years

[jeemak]

Care to explain how Norf kept Andrew Swallow and Todd Goldstein in successive years? Both were even higher up the GWS priority list than Ward.

It's hard to accept but the simple fact is that our club screwed up. The 'system' has been in place for every club, but only one team has lost two 200+ game players who were both U-23 to the expansion clubs.

There's a couple of possible reasons. Maybe Swallow and Goldstein didn't want to go to GWS in the first place, irrespective of the cash on offer. Perhaps the Kangaroos didn't have guys like Cooney, Gia, Higgins, Boyd, Cross, Lake, Morris, Hargrave and Murphy soaking up as much of the salary cap as their players, after all, the respective lists of the two clubs were in considerably different phases. When the first round of talks were in place with Ward we were still considered by many pundits a very good chance to reach the top four, and potentially make the GF. Obiviously the football department at that stage were as silly as the pundits in their thinking, and they should have understood that irrespective of the list's health and injuries at the back end of 2010 action needed to be taken, though there's only so much you can do with limited salary cap space.

Throughout that time maybe Ward had it in his head that he was worth more than he was offered first time around, who knows how much he actually thought he was worth from the beginning. His father brought him up thinking that the Bulldogs were a battler club, never to succeed, and he barracked for Essendon. Maybe he fell in love with the romance of playing for Sheedy, a coach he and his father idolised throughout his childhood.*

Harbrow, as good as he was, was never going to be in the top bracket of earners at our club for at least two or three years after GC entering the league. Sure he had potential, though our list is heavily loaded at the top age and without dumping some of those guys he was always going to have to wait his turn.

Circumstances hurt us because we were either at our peak, or on the way down without actually realising it. I can blame the football department for overestimating the potential of our playing group, because the results are there for all to see, but I can't blame the club for miss-handling Ward and Harbrow because I don't have the evidence to suggest that was the case.

*This point is hyperbole at its best. Just thought I'd put it in there anyway, for laughs if nothing else.

[Sockeye Salmon]

There is a lot of speculation that Bastinac is this year's Ward

[ledge]

There is a lot of speculation that Bastinac is this year's Ward

Add Cloke to that.
Some bloke rang SEN said Cloke was gone, asked how he knew , said he was best mates with his brother.

[LostDoggy]

Add Cloke to that.
Some bloke rang SEN said Cloke was gone, asked how he knew , said he was best mates with his brother.

If I could have 5c whenever anyone came up with this sort of stuff. Might be true but usually BS.

[LostDoggy]

There is a lot of speculation that Bastinac is this year's Ward

Only in sense he might go to Gws. Is he getting game? He was pretty poor for North Ballarat against Williamstown

[Sockeye Salmon]

Only in sense he might go to Gws. Is he getting game? He was pretty poor for North Ballarat against Williamstown

You're thinking of someone else.

Bastinac is a beauty and won't be playing VFL anytime soon.

[Mofra]

Add Cloke to that.
Some bloke rang SEN said Cloke was gone, asked how he knew , said he was best mates with his brother.


If I could have 5c whenever anyone came up with this sort of stuff. Might be true but usually BS.
Taylor Walker was gone to GWS this time last year too.

[LostDoggy]

You're thinking of someone else.

Bastinac is a beauty and won't be playing VFL anytime soon.

Yes sorry Urcheart.