Dan Lonergan: Rebuild it and flags will come

[LostDoggy]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-20/rebuild-it-and-flags-will-come/3953838/?site=melbourne

Some interesting points , the underlying insinuation though is that we will or should finish bottom 3 , however I do agree that our recruiting under Scott Clayton has not been as successful as it could have been , our list at the moment is a little static and it will take a little time before the younger players on the list can compete for a senior spot , the next two drafts will be very important but as I said before I don't like the insinuation that we should tank

.

[Sedat]

Good article but wishful thinking to suggest poaching Stephen Wells from the Cattery. He's been there for 29 years! It's a nice thought though....

[comrade]

I wonder what Dan's WOOF username is?

:D

[ledge]

Dan Lonergan horse racing and VFL football commentator is now an expert on AFL football matters?
Hey Dan do some research we already chose to take our priority pick this year, you have to do that before the season starts!

Who is the next AFL football expert to write stuff, The Wiggles?

[bornadog]

Dan is the biggest pessimist of all time.

[The Underdog]

Dan Lonergan horse racing and VFL football commentator is now an expert on AFL football matters?
Hey Dan do some research we already chose to take our priority pick this year, you have to do that before the season starts!

Who is the next AFL football expert to write stuff, The Wiggles?

You know he commentates the AFL for 774. He also supports the Bulldogs (in a famously glass half empty fashion)
You're not getting him mixed up with Peter Donegan are you?

[Ghost Dog]

I wonder what Dan's WOOF username is?

:D

Is that a hint that he may be on the woof forums?
I really enjoyed reading thisarticle and can't disagree. The only thing is, he doesn't mention Liam Picken. If he was actually used a bit more as a ball player, I think the fans would be quite happy with the returns. For mine, in our top 5 and would have him over several flashy types any day of the week. Was a great forward at the Imps in his younger days.

[LostDoggy]

You know he commentates the AFL for 774. He also supports the Bulldogs (in a famously glass half empty fashion)
You're not getting him mixed up with Peter Donegan are you?
:)
Wouldn't be the first time he gone off on tangent.

[Remi Moses]

It's hard not to argue against the article.
Facts are Clayton missed more than hit in his time, and the 06 draft is an indictment on his recruiting. He dined out on the 99 draft and the Brissie recruiting( got the keys to the treasure cove there)Ordinary list doesn't finish top 4 as often as we did.This year will be very important

[LostDoggy]

While Clayton may have been hit or miss, I haven't seen Dalrymple have a hit yet.

[immortalmike]

While Clayton may have been hit or miss, I haven't seen Dalrymple have a hit yet.

Dahlhaus?

[LostDoggy]

Dahlhaus?
ok 1 rookie.
For Dahlhaus, there is Boyd, Morris and Picken
Still way behind.

We are really talking first rounds. Maybe it's too early to tell but Howard over Fyfe, Menzel, etc, etc wasn't a great start.
A couple of Father sons then Smith over speed and better kicks.

[comrade]

What does Stephen Wells do better than Dalrymple?

Or does Geelong have more resources invested in developing younger players that makes it more likely for them to add value at the highest level and therefore make Wells look good?

[GVGjr]

What does Stephen Wells do better than Dalrymple?

Or does Geelong have more resources invested in developing younger players that makes it more likely for them to add value at the highest level and therefore make Wells look good?

I don't think it's purely a club resource thing with the success of Wells. He grabbed some very good players before the club got it's act together and started to spend more money on the football department.

I'm not knocking Dalrymple but Wells reads the play better than most. I admired the way they traded their 1st round pick in last years draft to obtain two additional 2nd round selections. I'm led to believe they still got the player they would have taken in the first round if the trade wasn't done (Hambling). Basically they got an extra 2nd round pick because they read the play.

Drafting older guys like Taylor when most teams wouldn't do it, reaching for Mackie and selecting Pods shows they are creative and get a lot of things right.

[Remi Moses]

ok 1 rookie.
For Dahlhaus, there is Boyd, Morris and Picken
Still way behind.

We are really talking first rounds. Maybe it's too early to tell but Howard over Fyfe, Menzel, etc, etc wasn't a great start.
A couple of Father sons then Smith over speed and better kicks.

Little to early on Howard, and Smith

[Remi Moses]

I don't think it's purely a club resource thing with the success of Wells. He grabbed some very good players before the club got it's act together and started to spend more money on the football department.

I'm not knocking Dalrymple but Wells reads the play better than most. I admired the way they traded their 1st round pick in last years draft to obtain two additional 2nd round selections. I'm led to believe they still got the player they would have taken in the first round if the trade wasn't done (Hambling). Basically they got an extra 2nd round pick because they read the play.

Drafting older guys like Taylor when most teams wouldn't do it, reaching for Mackie and selecting Pods shows they are creative and get a lot of things right.

Agree, they seem to be able to read a draft better than anyone

[jeemak]

Clayton certainly got the Ward selection right, and some of the misses he recorded make losing Ward all the worse.

It will be really interesting to see how GC's list develops considering the picks he's had at his disposal.

[Eastdog]

Clayton certainly got the Ward selection right, and some of the misses he recorded make losing Ward all the worse.

It will be really interesting to see how GC's list develops considering the picks he's had at his disposal.

Was it true that we could of actually picked up Buddy Franklin

[hujsh]

ok 1 rookie.
For Dahlhaus, there is Boyd, Morris and Picken
Still way behind.

We are really talking first rounds. Maybe it's too early to tell but Howard over Fyfe, Menzel, etc, etc wasn't a great start.
A couple of Father sons then Smith over speed and better kicks.

Is it fair to blame him for Smith though? If it was McCartney who insisted we overlook his first choice and go for Smith what can Dalrymple do?

[jeemak]

Was it true that we could of actually picked up Buddy Franklin

Here you go Eastdog. Take a look for yorself on Wikipedia, most questions you might have relating to AFL drafts can be answered there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_AFL_Draft

[LostDoggy]

Here you go Eastdog. Take a look for yorself on Wikipedia, most questions you might have relating to AFL drafts can be answered there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_AFL_Draft

If you follow that through we picked Damien McCormack when we could have picked Ivan Maric , Mark LeCras was always going to go the Eagles

.

[MrMahatma]

Is it fair to blame him for Smith though? If it was McCartney who insisted we overlook his first choice and go for Smith what can Dalrymple do?
What's the structure like? Do the recruiters report through to the coach? Is he the boss - or is Fantasia?

What about the new list manager role?

If the coach is the boss of it all, then doesn't that mean we can still have coaches making decisions out of personal desperation rather than what's best for the club?

[GVGjr]

What's the structure like? Do the recruiters report through to the coach? Is he the boss - or is Fantasia?

What about the new list manager role?

If the coach is the boss of it all, then doesn't that mean we can still have coaches making decisions out of personal desperation rather than what's best for the club?

It was filled last year by Jason McCartney. I believe the recruiting manager reports to the list manager

[westdog54]

Was it true that we could of actually picked up Buddy Franklin

Its worth remembering that Hawthorn were willing to let him slide in favour of Roughead.

I'm happy with Griffen, at least we didn't take Tambling.

[Remi Moses]

Was it true that we could of actually picked up Buddy Franklin

Buddy slid down the rankings,but I think we might have picked him up at 5 .( you'd hope so)
Happy with Griffen

[Eastdog]

Its worth remembering that Hawthorn were willing to let him slide in favour of Roughead.

I'm happy with Griffen, at least we didn't take Tambling.

Griffen was a very good pick up. Tim Walsh we picked up from memory quite high in the draft but he turned out to be a dud. Hird was picked in the draft somewhere in the 60s and turned out to be a superstar.

[MrMahatma]

It was filled last year by Jason McCartney. I believe the recruiting manager reports to the list manager
I guess my question is - who makes the call on recruiting?

If Dalrymple/J. Mac are on point to deliver the best list possible - and that's their KPI - surely the coach shouldn't be able to over rule?

Recruiters live and die by the 4 names they call every November. To have your best chance at success over ruled by someone else with a different job seems both unfair (to the recruiter) and risky (to the club).

[MrMahatma]

Its worth remembering that Hawthorn were willing to let him slide in favour of Roughead.

I'm happy with Griffen, at least we didn't take Tambling.
Let's not forget the part development has to play in all this.

I couldn't hand on heart say I'd be confident Buddy would be half the player he is now if we picked him. We've not had much success developing key forwards in the past few decades...

[GVGjr]

I guess my question is - who makes the call on recruiting?

If Dalrymple/J. Mac are on point to deliver the best list possible - and that's their KPI - surely the coach shouldn't be able to over rule?

Recruiters live and die by the 4 names they call every November. To have your best chance at success over ruled by someone else with a different job seems both unfair (to the recruiter) and risky (to the club).


The recruiting guy identifies the talent but there would be a committee including the coach, assistant coaches, the football manager and the list manager to determine how they will approach a draft and the order of the players selected.

It's not uncommon for recruiting managers to be overruled with the order they rate the players. The coach can have a huge say on the players or the type of players they want.

[ledge]

Let's not forget the part development has to play in all this.

I couldn't hand on heart say I'd be confident Buddy would be half the player he is now if we picked him. We've not had much success developing key forwards in the past few decades...

He would have gone to the backline if he came to us:D

[w3design]

While Clayton may have been hit or miss, I haven't seen Dalrymple have a hit yet.

Dahlhaus not bad get as a rookie.

[Ghost Dog]

He would have gone to the backline if he came to us:D

This is so funny, because it's likely to be very very true.
Chris Grant, alas....

[1eyedog]

Griffen was a very good pick up. Tim Walsh we picked up from memory quite high in the draft but he turned out to be a dud. Hird was picked in the draft somewhere in the 60s and turned out to be a superstar.

Yes happy with Griffen, he is loyal.

Grant taken as a very young fellow at pick 105 went pretty well for us.

[LostDoggy]

If selecting draftees is done on a commitee basis with all the coaches, list manager, recruitment officer, then B-Mac should have a real good insight what and how Geelong went about it, I would think.

He may be able to bring some positive ideas with him regarding the draft.