We're not rebuilding: Dogs

[Scraggers]

We're not rebuilding: Dogs


REBUILD is a dirty word at Whitten Oval, if the attitude of Western Bulldogs skipper Matthew Boyd is anything to go by.

The Bulldogs have slumped to 15th on the ladder after losing seven of their past eight games (including the past five in a row) by an average of 55 points. Along the way they have tested a lot of young players, but Boyd baulked at a suggestion the club was undergoing a rebuilding process under first-year coach Brendan McCartney.

"No, I don't think it's a rebuild," Boyd said at Bulldogs headquarters on Tuesday.

"We're learning a new way to play and I think we're developing, but it's certainly not a rebuild. We'd love to be winning more games, there's no doubt about that, but it's not about rebuilding; it's about learning a new way to play, developing and trying to develop those standards that will take us forward."

Boyd was then pressed further on the apparent reluctance to use the 'R' word.

Read on ... (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/142486/default.aspx)

[The Underdog]

We're clearly not rebuilding. We're clearly just flat out bad and historically so when it comes to converting from inside 50's.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Oh my, not you too Boydy?
I know the club has to present a positive image...... But talk about polishing a turd.
That garbage about 'defenders improving their standards' as one of the reasons our forward line is under performing. Is Boydy really serious? If so can we send him off for a concussion test because I fear he may have suffered a head knock.

[comrade]

Is it any wonder supporters are feeling apathetic when we get spoon fed crap from the Club? I would rather some honesty about the direction of the Club, rather than some futile attempt to stay 'on brand' in the hope that fans won't drop off. Reality check - they already are.

A better, more positive message to sell (not to mention grounded in reality) would be that we ARE re-building, that the current list is not good enough right now and that there will be an influx of new talent at year's end.

[Cyberdoggie]

Is it any wonder supporters are feeling apathetic when we get spoon fed crap from the Club? I would rather some honesty about the direction of the Club, rather than some futile attempt to stay 'on brand' in the hope that fans won't drop off. Reality check - they already are.

A better, more positive message to sell (not to mention grounded in reality) would be that we ARE re-building, that the current list is not good enough right now and that there will be an influx of new talent at year's end.

We are 're-booting' not 're-building'! silly! :D

Can't you tell the difference?

[jazzadogs]

I don't really care about the word. He says they're developing, which is basically what a rebuild is...its not like he's trying to say that we're fine and in the race for the flag.

[AndrewP6]

If it looks like a rebuild and smells like a rebuild (and it most definitely smells)....

This bit really worries me: "But from an internal perspective we're really pleased with the development we're showing"... if they're pleased with the demoralisation of the last month ('development' notwithstanding), they're easily pleased.

What a load of rubbish.

[LostDoggy]

What a load of crap. Why the aversion to saying rebuild?

[GVGjr]

What a load of crap. Why the aversion to saying rebuild?

Because they backed themselves into a corner when they announced the new coach by being very clear that it wasn't a rebuild.

If they changed their tune now the focus on the miserable performances would only escalate.

[Go_Dogs]

Because they backed themselves into a corner when they announced the new coach by being very clear that it wasn't a rebuild.

If they changed their tune now the focus on the miserable performances would only escalate.

Agreed, but I'd almost prefer a backflip because at the moment they simply aren't giving any credit to the intelligence of supporters. I tend to think maintaining the line will intensify the focus on our performance as we now have the right to question what has been refreshed and where is the progress that our allegedly strong list was to make this year?

It's not the first, and it won't be the last time that a club overrates their list or have expectations which shortly after are found to have been very unrealistic. The fact that we are so far unwilling to come clean isn't great. The alternative, that the club still actually believes its a 'refresh' and the list is great - would be an even bigger problem.

[Remi Moses]

To quote a former Norf premiership coach
"don't p*** down my back and tell me it's raining!"
Seriously The PR Spin is tedious, as the fans are dropping off anyway due to the ordinary performances.

[Maddog37]

I find the article with Boyd a touch bizarre. What is so horrible about the word rebuild? Who cares what word you use.....

[LostDoggy]

The sooner the club accept we need a rebuild and are rebuilding, the sooner the things can move forward.
Otherwise the rubbish that's been served up is the norm.

[LostDoggy]

Because they backed themselves into a corner when they announced the new coach by being very clear that it wasn't a rebuild.

If they changed their tune now the focus on the miserable performances would only escalate.

It's also an admission they made some bad choices.

[AndrewP6]

I find the article with Boyd a touch bizarre. What is so horrible about the word rebuild? Who cares what word you use.....

A rebuild, to me, implies that you are starting again. A 'refresh' implies that you just need to fix a couple of things, and "She'll be right, mate". Either they think the fans are idiots, or they themselves are ...

[azabob]

It's also an admission they made some bad choices.

How do you mean? The trading for players?

[LostDoggy]

How do you mean? The trading for players?
Thinking more about coaches.
Don't think Smorgon liked being told truthes about going backwards before challenging again.
I doubt any new coaching prospect would have said that.

[azabob]

Thinking more about coaches.
Don't think Smorgon liked being told truthes about going backwards before challenging again.
I doubt any new coaching prospect would have said that.

I tend to agree with that.

Interesting if you believe the grapevine, Hardwick said the bombers list was no good, where as Knights said it was up to scratch....

[Maddog37]

This is all guess work at best.

[LostDoggy]

This is all guess work at best.

Some people here can vouch for the first part. Not that difficult to put 2 and 2 together anyway.

[Sedat]

This article is treating Dogs supporters with contempt, and I for one certainly don't like being treated with contempt. I know Boyd is just towing the company line so I lay the blame well above him.

[bornadog]

This article is treating Dogs supporters with contempt, and I for one certainly don't like being treated with contempt. I know Boyd is just towing the company line so I lay the blame well above him.

Murphy was asked on AFL 360, why is Boyd saying its not a rebuild. Murph said I guess when you talk about a rebuild it means bottoming out and the club doesn't see that they are bottoming out, and to then climb again, they are trying to improve on the base they have now.

[Scraggers]

This article was mentioned on 360 and Bob said that a rebuild implies that you have to bottom out ... This is the reason we are not in a rebuild phase (Bob's words, not mine).

In the words of the second red-headed clown, please explain ???

Can we get worse than this ?? Surely we are bottoming out now ... Geez I hope we don't go further down !!

[Sedat]

A percentage of 75 would suggest that something doesn't correlate at all between the game plan and the playing group. Only non-competitive and routinely awful teams go around with a percentage of 75 in any given season. When will it be considered bottoming out? When we hit a percentage of 65???

[Happy Days]

I vote for a ban on the refresh/rebuild/reboot debate, it's insulting enough to us as supporters to have it fed to us by the club, we're only furthering it by going on and on about it. We surely realise it's just rhetoric that was aimed at fairweatherish supporters and not a real assessment?

[Ghost Dog]

I vote for a ban on the refresh/rebuild/reboot debate, it's insulting enough to us as supporters to have it fed to us by the club, we're only furthering it by going on and on about it. We surely realise it's just rhetoric that was aimed at fairweatherish supporters and not a real assessment?

The truth is, nobody knows how long this process will take before we are back in the 8. Unless we manage to jag a few games, we might hit rock bottom in terms of morale and momentum. Then again, a few heroes may appear. The saints will be a good challenge. They have had the wood over us for some time. Senior players are going to have to really stand up if they don't want things to go very badly. We cannot afford another capitulation for the next part of the season.

[Mantis]

Thinking more about coaches.
Don't think Smorgon liked being told truthes about going backwards before challenging again.
I doubt any new coaching prospect would have said that.

How sure are you about this statement?

[LostDoggy]

How sure are you about this statement?

Can't be certain but I doubt very much any prospect would have talk down the playing list/told them where we would be right now and got the job.

[Mantis]

Can't be certain but I doubt very much any prospect would have talk down the playing list/told them where we would be right now and got the job.

You got the last bit right. ;)

[chef]

This article was mentioned on 360 and Bob said that a rebuild implies that you have to bottom out ... This is the reason we are not in a rebuild phase (Bob's words, not mine).

In the words of the second red-headed clown, please explain ???

Can we get worse than this ?? Surely we are bottoming out now ... Geez I hope we don't go further down !!

It will get worse before it gets better, we haven't bottomed out yet.

Over the next 3 years Hargrave, Gia, Gilbee, Lake, Morris, Cooney, Cross, Boyd and Murphy retiring.:(

[KT31]

It will get worse before it gets better, we haven't bottomed out yet.

Over the next 3 years Hargrave, Gia, Gilbee, Lake, Morris, Cooney, Cross, Boyd and Murphy retiring.:(

Not to different from this season with the highlighted ones not really contributing to this season.
Could even include Murph in the group if it wasn't for a coup[le of games.

[Ghost Dog]

It will get worse before it gets better, we haven't bottomed out yet.

Over the next 3 years Hargrave, Gia, Gilbee, Lake, Morris, Cooney, Cross, Boyd and Murphy retiring.:(

It's a bit pessimistic isn't it? Sydney are a team for example, who show you a boom and bust cycle of performance is not acceptable.
It's not acceptable to fans, it's not acceptable to members, it's not acceptable as a club. This doesn't mean I will ever burn my membership or walk away. But I won't accept it for one.

It's not acceptable!!!
I can subscribe to the theory that even though we made prelims, we had some cracks papered over. Can subscribe to the theory that we have youth in our side. But that argument is starting to wear thin. As members we have the right to encourage a better performance than what we are seeing at the moment, across the board, from coach to player.
That means better kicking skills. Better coaching ( match ups and game day response ), harder running defensively, better blocking and protection of team mates, better drafting ( Fantasia )
I hate seeing us where we are now.

[The Pie Man]

Can't be certain but I doubt very much any prospect would have talk down the playing list/told them where we would be right now and got the job.

I remember reading somewhere over the somewhere that Macca was asked to rate the list at some stage in the interview process, and he said something along the lines of 'don't ever ask me that question' reasoning that it's about a group's buy in to the game plan and intensity at the contest that determine's results (also recall something about 'X factor' being one of his most hated terms when describing players)

If that took place, wouldn't alarm bells start?

[The Pie Man]

Murphy was asked on AFL 360, why is Boyd saying its not a rebuild. Murph said I guess when you talk about a rebuild it means bottoming out and the club doesn't see that they are bottoming out, and to then climb again, they are trying to improve on the base they have now.

When dissected, the 'we're not bottoming out' line seems disengenous - though I thought Murph wriggled out of that line of questioning pretty well at the time. He did repeat that they've got to improve the 'now'

[chef]

It's a bit pessimistic isn't it?.


No. I think that it is realistic to think that we are still going to get worse before we start to get better. These kids that will be drafted(as long as they are decent) are going to take 3-5seasons before they can start making a difference(there will be the odd exception who comes on quicker).

[Dry Rot]

No. I think that it is realistic to think that we are still going to get worse before we start to get better. These kids that will be drafted(as long as they are decent) are going to take 3-5seasons before they can start making a difference(there will be the odd exception who comes on quicker).

And the senior brigade will begin to fall away, cop injuries and retire. Improvements in Dahl, Wallis, Libba and Smith won't cover this.

Meanwhile, Port and the Demons starting rebuilding, sorry refreshing their lists and will get better, and in the next 2 seasons GC and GWS will really improve.

[Remi Moses]

Melbourne's been rebuilding for 5 years and gone backwards this year.

[Dry Rot]

Melbourne's been rebuilding for 5 years and gone backwards this year.

See how they go in year 2 of the new coach.

[LostDoggy]

If a refresh was all that was required then why didn't the club make Cameron coach with Eade as football manager?

[azabob]

If a refresh was all the required then why didn't the club make Cameron coach with Eade if football manager?

Good idea in theory, but surely Eade would not have gone for this arrangement and not sure Cameron would like it either. Too much history and too raw.

[GVGjr]

The club made a huge mistake leading out with the word refresh when asked if they were going to do a rebuild.
They should have just floated it was a 'Re-engineer of the playing list and game plan' and let the media and fans decide what that really means.

[Remi Moses]

If we're not rebuilding why did we activate our Compo picks ?

[jeemak]

Why does any of this really matter?

I'm not convinced our crowd numbers or membership numbers would be up with an admission of a rebuild, to be honest.

If anyone can show me the positive benefits of admitting a rebuild versus the negative outcomes of falsley claiming a refresh, and they prove a drop in membership and support at home games then I'll gladly eat some humble pie.

In the meantime, I call BS on the whole lot. We're eating krud on the back of missing out once again in 2008-2010, and as supporters we need to move on and get behind our current charge.

[Mantis]

In the meantime, I call BS on the whole lot. We're eating krud on the back of missing out once again in 2008-2010, and as supporters we need to move on and get behind our current charge.

Why?

Speaking for myself and a few other Bulldogs members/ supporters I know we all invested a lot of time and energy into supporting the team through the period mentioned. Getting so close to the ultimate glory has left a hollow pit in the stomach which makes backing up tougher and tougher... The last 18 months has been tough and with the last 6 to 8 weeks even worse many are finding it hard to condure up the energy to go again.

[ledge]

I cant go to games at the moment, not because we are losing but the frustration of not seeing us take the game on and kick goals, don t mind losing if i think we are trying to score but its all defense at the moment

[Ghost Dog]

Why?

Speaking for myself and a few other Bulldogs members/ supporters I know we all invested a lot of time and energy into supporting the team through the period mentioned. Getting so close to the ultimate glory has left a hollow pit in the stomach which makes backing up tougher and tougher... The last 18 months has been tough and with the last 6 to 8 weeks even worse many are finding it hard to condure up the energy to go again.

Fair enough. Bmac said he has not seen grown men so traumatized as when we lost the last prelim to Adelaide.

My support for the Bulldogs is not contingent on success or failure. As long as there are quality people at the club who give their very best ( as in the song ) and wear the jumper with pride, I'm in.
Doesn't mean I'm passive. If there is another capitulation this season I'm going into overdrive letter writing and calling mode. Not good enough! woof.

[jeemak]

Why?

Speaking for myself and a few other Bulldogs members/ supporters I know we all invested a lot of time and energy into supporting the team through the period mentioned. Getting so close to the ultimate glory has left a hollow pit in the stomach which makes backing up tougher and tougher... The last 18 months has been tough and with the last 6 to 8 weeks even worse many are finding it hard to condure up the energy to go again.

Why? Because it's better than the alternative.

If we don't go to games, and wallow in a self perpetuating cycle of despair and pick apart every little thing we don't agree with in such early stages of a rebuild/refresh/redevelopment/realignment or whatever you want to call it things won't get better for us as supporters, and they certainly won't get better for the club.

Anwyway Mantis, I'm not going to tell you and others how to support the club, it's just my view.

[Scraggers]

re-activated, re-addressed, re-adjust, re-adopt, re-affirm, re-align, realistic, re-analyse, re-apply, re-arrange, re-articulate, re-assess, re-awake, re-balance, re-boot, re-born, re-brand, re-breed, re-calculate, re-calibrate, re-circulate, re-claim, re-classify, re-commence, re-compose, re-concentrate, re-conceptualise, re-concile, re-condition, re-configure, re-connect, re-conquer, re-consider, re-consolidate, re-construct, re-constitute, re-convene, re-cook, re-coup, re-cover, re-concentrate, re-cycle, re-define, re-deliver, re-deploy, re-determine, re-discover, re-do, re-educate, re-embark, re-emerge, re-emphasise, re-establish, re-evaluate, re-examine, re-face, re-fashion, re-figure, re-float, re-focus, re-form, re-format, re-formulate, re-furbish, re-gather, re-generate, re-group, re-grow, re-gurgitate, re-habilitate, re-hash, re-heat, re-hydrate, re-ignite, re-image, re-incarnate, re-invent, re-juvinate, re-kindle, re-label, re-load, re-manufacture, re-mount, re-name ...

Whatever you want to call it, just re-member to re-frain from calling it a re-build or it will be re-buked, re-fused, and re-jected !!

[Dancin' Douggy]

You left out restump.

[bornadog]

Anwyway Mantis, I'm not going to tell you and others how to support the club, it's just my view.

I will support them through thick and thin as I always have. As Mantis says its hard having come off some good years under Rocket, but we have to accept the situation if we love our club.

[jeemak]

I will support them through thick and thin as I always have. As Mantis says its hard having come off some good years under Rocket, but we have to accept the situation if we love our club.

I understand that.

It sucks that I've experienced the let down of 85 (though, was quite young), 92, 97-99 and 08-10, though my disappointment would be dwarfed by many of our supporters and WOOF contirbutors as well.

[bornadog]

I understand that.

It sucks that I've experienced the let down of 85 (though, was quite young), 92, 97-99 and 08-10, though my disappointment would be dwarfed by many of our supporters and WOOF contirbutors as well.

Well prior to 1985, the first time I saw the dogs in a final was 1974 and then 76 (prior was 61 but I was only 5 then). We then had a drought to 1985.:eek: