Western Bulldogs left out in cold by VFL affiliate Williamstown

[Hotdog60]

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WESTERN Bulldogs players will be forced to play VFL reserves under a selection policy enforced by affiliate Williamstown.

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Cartoon by David 'Macca' McArthur. Herald Sun

The Seagulls will pick no more than 12 Bulldogs in any VFL match after the alignment soured last year, leading to an impending split.

The deal gives Williamstown greater selection control. It has declared it will pick a minimum of 11 VFL-listed players as it prepares to become a stand-alone club next year.

The policy is a temporary blow to the development of several prized Bulldogs youngsters.

Last week No. 5 draft pick Jarrad Grant, father-son pick Lachie Hunter and exciting prospect Fletcher Roberts were among five AFL-listed players who were fit but had nowhere to play after the Seagulls overlooked them.

With Dylan Addison, Easton Wood, Nathan Hrovat, Tom Williams and Matthew Boyd due back from injury in the next three weeks, that number is set to rise.

Of the 44-listed Bulldogs players, 33 are guaranteed a senior match each week, with the rest forced into Williamstown's reserves.

The Seagulls went on a recruiting spree in the off-season, headlined by AFL discards Justin Sherman, Cameron Wood, Brent Prismall and Leigh Williams, to reduce their dependence on Bulldogs-listed players.

Seagulls general manager Brendan Curry said he believed the selection was a fair split and his club had a responsibility to develop Bulldog players.

Curry will now meet with Dogs football manager James Fantasia each week to discuss which AFL players should be picked.

"We’ll take certain requests on board, but it’s a Williamstown call. There’s consultation and we’ll take a common sense approach,’’ he said.

Curry said the alignment had worked smoothly since last September.

Dogs football manager James Fantasia agreed the clubs were working well and said there was "healthy" discussion around team selection.

"We believe (Willy coach) Peter German does a great job in ensuring clubs’ priorities are met," he said.

Next year the Bulldogs and Richmond will join Geelong, Collingwood and Essendon in fielding stand-alone reserves side in the VFL.

DOGS LEFT OUT IN THE COLD LAST WEEK

Jarrad Grant
Lachie Hunter
Fletcher Roberts
Josh Prudden
Alex Greenwood

HOW THE SELECTION POLICY WORKS

- When up to 15 Bulldogs are available for VFL duties, Williamstown will pick a maximum of 11
- When 16 or more Bulldogs are available, Williamstown will pick a maximum of 12

*THE Western Bulldogs are considering a name change for their new VFL team.

A decision will be made during the season whether the VFL team will play under the club's original name Footscray.

But president Peter Gordon said last night there were no plans for the club or its senior side to revert to Footscray.

The club changed its name to the Western Bulldogs late in 1996.
LINK (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/teams/western-bulldogs-left-out-in-cold-by-vfl-affiliate-williamstown/story-e6frf9nx-1226611970231)

[G-Mo77]

I got told about what Willy planned on doing at the Richmond match a few weeks ago although was told it was less than 11. It was surprising really, especially if they cannot field their best side because of this rule they've enforced.

They can say it's a smooth relationship but realisticly it's a disappointing result and end to our affiliation with Williamstown.

[Eastdog]

It will be great when we get our own stand alone team clearly a direction clubs are going down now.

My views on the team name:

AFL Team: Footscray
VFL Team: Footscray

Or

AFL Team: Western Bulldogs
VFL Team: Western Bulldogs

I believe it's best they are both the same name but as Peter said we won't be reverting the AFL team name back to Footscray.

[bornadog]

We need guys like Grant and Roberts to be playing senior football. This is really annoying.

[Hotdog60]

We need guys like Grant and Roberts to be playing senior football. This is really annoying.

You would think that our AFL listed players playing in the minors would dominate and would give you a false impression of their current form.

Financial cost of running a stand alone side out of the equation, for the development of our younger players we need our reserve side up and running.

[Sedat]

It's a *!*!*!*!ed up, no need to sugarcoat the situation. Our fringe and youth players now will stagnate as their development will be severely compromised.

[Ozza]

Sounds like a painful year ahead. I guess we just have to look forward to 2014 with the stand alone team - and hope not too much damage is done this year.

Willy are kidding themselves not picking Jarrad Grant though. I know he's been disappointing at AFL level at times....but he kicked 3 goals in a quarter against the Geelong seniors last year!

[G-Mo77]

Factor in how many players were made unavailable for Williamstown last season which will probably happen again this season, then there are injuries/general soreness/rest. Over the whole season I don't think there are going to be a huge number of players missing out. It will hurt if we have a clean bill of health but generally VFL affiliated sides have their VFL players who'd they'd play anyway.

[Mantis]

Factor in how many players were made unavailable for Williamstown last season which will probably happen again this season, then there are injuries/general soreness/rest. Over the whole season I don't think there are going to be a huge number of players missing out. It will hurt if we have a clean bill of health but generally VFL affiliated sides have their VFL players who'd they'd play anyway.

But a huge number (5) missed out last week which is way too many.. It's important that these players are playing at the highest level they can each and every week to mainitain (or gain) form & fitness, and even more so at the start of the season.

[always right]

Really concerned with Grant languishing in the reserves. This will really test his mental strength in what is likely to be a career defining season for him.

[G-Mo77]

But a huge number (5) missed out last week which is way too many.. It's important that these players are playing at the highest level they can each and every week to mainitain (or gain) form & fitness, and even more so at the start of the season.

Which is why it's great we will have a VFL side next season and can dictate who plays and where they play. I'm not disagreeing at all, if it were up to me I'd play every WB listed player at VFL senior level but it's not our team.

I'd be interested to know how many players played VFL reserves last season each week. I always noticed a few names in there but never really thought much of it. At a guess I'm thinking 2- 3 players but that's a wild stab in the dark.

[Bulldog Joe]

Really concerned with Grant languishing in the reserves. This will really test his mental strength in what is likely to be a career defining season for him.

Amazing that Redpath was selected ahead of Grant. I know they are different players but surely the Dogs want Grant, and for that matter Roberts, playing ahead of a rookie listed player.

[Bulldog4life]

It will be great when we get our own stand alone team clearly a direction clubs are going down now.

My views on the team name:

AFL Team: Footscray
VFL Team: Footscray

Or

AFL Team: Western Bulldogs
VFL Team: Western Bulldogs

I believe it's best they are both the same name but as Peter said we won't be reverting the AFL team name back to Footscray.

He said their are no plans to call the VFL team Footscray. Doesn't mean there won't be plans in the future though.

[Mantis]

Amazing that Redpath was selected ahead of Grant. I know they are different players but surely the Dogs want Grant, and for that matter Roberts, playing ahead of a rookie listed player.

Knowing this I'm surprised that Stringer was also picked ahead of Grant too... Shows where Grant is in the pecking order.

[F'scary]

I am content that our AFL team is called the Western Bulldogs.

I would love the VFL team to be called Footscray Bulldogs and play home matches at the Whitten Oval.

I can't see any problem with this.

[F'scary]

Knowing this I'm surprised that Stringer was also picked ahead of Grant too... Shows where Grant is in the pecking order.

Williamstown are killing his value as trade bait by doing this. Get Gordon to sue on behalf of WB!

[GVGjr]

I got told about what Willy planned on doing at the Richmond match a few weeks ago although was told it was less than 11. It was surprising really, especially if they cannot field their best side because of this rule they've enforced.

They can say it's a smooth relationship but realisticly it's a disappointing result and end to our affiliation with Williamstown.

I don't have a problem with the 12 player rule. Williamstown had to formalise this based on the ad-hoc way we made players available to them last season.

They have to develop their own players for next year as a stand alone club and they want to win the competition this year.

It's a shame for us but we drove them to this point.

[bornadog]

I don't have a problem with the 12 player rule. Williamstown had to formalise this based on the ad-hoc way we made players available to them last season.

They have to develop their own players for next year as a stand alone club and they want to win the competition this year.

It's a shame for us but we drove them to this point.

Shouldn't they also pick the best available if they want to win the VFL premiership, even if it goes above the 12 player limit.

[GVGjr]

We need guys like Grant and Roberts to be playing senior football. This is really annoying.

I don't quite get why we are annoyed. We knew this was coming last year based on us not making so many players available.

We also played the rookie Redpath instead of Grant last week. If we need Grant to be playing in the seniors then we should have picked him.

[bornadog]

I don't quite get why we are annoyed. We knew this was coming last year based on us not making so many players available.

We also played the rookie Redpath instead of Grant last week. If we need Grant to be playing in the seniors then we should have picked him.

Well I am annoyed that senior listed players like Grant and Roberts are overlooked for rookies like Redpath, Jong and Austin.

[Greystache]

I don't have a problem with the 12 player rule. Williamstown had to formalise this based on the ad-hoc way we made players available to them last season.

They have to develop their own players for next year as a stand alone club and they want to win the competition this year.

It's a shame for us but we drove them to this point.

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't this rule been in place previously? It's only the last couple of seasons that we've been able to pay more than 12 players anyway.

[GVGjr]

Well I am annoyed that senior listed players like Grant and Roberts are overlooked for rookies like Redpath, Jong and Austin.

Which means that we could have influenced things. Williamstown is being blamed but when if you look a bit deeper we might be able to influence things a bit better.

[GVGjr]

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't this rule been in place previously? It's only the last couple of seasons that we've been able to pay more than 12 players anyway.

I think when we were with Werribee we had one season with just 12 players but after that it was 13 to 14 players.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We need guys like Grant and Roberts to be playing senior football. This is really annoying.

I find the decision on Roberts very puzzling and frustrating in particular as he looks eventually to become a key position player at AFL level. There is little point in him playing for Williamstown Reserves.

[SonofScray]

Seems like the relationship has soured, the way the story is presented here has me thinking it is a genuine concern. I hope a player like Grant doesn't get lost in the process.

[boydogs]

Headline is overstating this a bit IMO, that's still a fair quota and Fantasia gives Peter German a wrap for working to accommodate us

[G-Mo77]

I don't have a problem with the 12 player rule. Williamstown had to formalise this based on the ad-hoc way we made players available to them last season.

They have to develop their own players for next year as a stand alone club and they want to win the competition this year.

It's a shame for us but we drove them to this point.

I have a problem with this from a WB perspective but understand completely why Williamstown would want to do this which is mainly because of those points you made: the split and what happened last year. It's not ideal but lets not forget it was a VFL rule a few years back about having around 11 or 12 AFL listed players per Senior VFL team.

I was told they were only going to be playing 8 WB listed players per game a few weeks ago so the news of 11 or 12 didn't really shock me that much, more relief that what I was told was off the mark.

[Remi Moses]

From our perspective it's an ordinary outcome.
I understand their perspective as well.
Find it surprising they don't play guys like Grant or Roberts!
They're better footballers than some of their listed players.
Great to have our own side

[Remi Moses]

I have a problem with this from a WB perspective but understand completely why Williamstown would want to do this which is mainly because of those points you made: the split and what happened last year. It's not ideal but lets not forget it was a VFL rule a few years back about having around 11 or 12 AFL listed players per Senior VFL team.

I was told they were only going to be playing 8 WB listed players per game a few weeks ago so the news of 11 or 12 didn't really shock me that much, more relief that what I was told was off the mark.

That would be silly in all honesty .
They'd have a worse side on the park

[Remi Moses]

I don't quite get why we are annoyed. We knew this was coming last year based on us not making so many players available.

We also played the rookie Redpath instead of Grant last week. If we need Grant to be playing in the seniors then we should have picked him.

Is the issue we didn't inform Willy that we're resting players?
If they weren't , than that's understandable .
But if we informed them that we were going to. "Rest" players through the season then they shouldn't have had an issue.

[Twodogs]

Personally I'll be glad to see the back of Willy's association with us. It never sat well with me.

[Bulldog Joe]

Personally I'll be glad to see the back of Willy's association with us. It never sat well with me.

It was very good initially. Liam Picken is the best proof.

[Mantis]

Personally I'll be glad to see the back of Willy's association with us. It never sat well with me.

Is that only because your allegiance is with Port?


It was very good initially. Liam Picken is the best proof.

I think it was very good up until we started 'resting' players last year.

[LostDoggy]

From our perspective it's an ordinary outcome.
I understand their perspective as well.
Find it surprising they don't play guys like Grant or Roberts!
They're better footballers than some of their listed players.
Great to have our own side

Whether Grant or Roberts are better footballers or not, they won't be at Williamstown next year and Willy are obviously looking to the future with a rule like this.

Like others have said, bring on 2014 and a stand-alone team.

[bornadog]

Whether Grant or Roberts are better footballers or not, they won't be at Williamstown next year and Willy are obviously looking to the future with a rule like this.

Like others have said, bring on 2014 and a stand-alone team.

Ultimately Willi want to win the premiership, so they should be picking best available.

[G-Mo77]

That would be silly in all honesty .
They'd have a worse side on the park

I know but my source has been pretty accurate with the VFL side of things so I was a little concerned. Maybe cooler heads prevailed, maybe he was way off the mark. Either way I'm going to give him shit about it. :D


I think it was very good up until we started 'resting' players last year.

That seems to be where it all started. I remember hearing 2 of our players were made unavailable because they had to sign autographs, I'm sure that wouldn't have gone over well. I think we've had a pretty good affiliation with Willy over the years and it's a disappointing end IMO.

[Remi Moses]

Personally I'll be glad to see the back of Willy's association with us. It never sat well with me.

Me neither. Yes and I'm a Port Fan
There treatment of Yarraville I remember well

[Twodogs]

Is that only because your allegiance is with Port?



Yep, that's about 90% of it.



Me neither. Yes and I'm a Port Fan
There treatment of Yarraville I remember well

And the other 10% is their treatment of Yarraville. Stabbed them in the back and then parasited their best players like Sait and Fotheringham.

[westdog54]

Yep, that's about 90% of it.




And the other 10% is their treatment of Yarraville. Stabbed them in the back and then parasited their best players like Sait and Fotheringham.

Do you mind giving us kids a bit of a history lesson on this?

[Remi Moses]

Pinched their two best players when they were vulnerable.
Helped kill off Yarraville.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think when we were with Werribee we had one season with just 12 players but after that it was 13 to 14 players.

Makes you wonder why we didn't stick with the two teams like north has done with Werribee and Nth Ballarat.

If we would of stayed with Willy and Werribee we could of got all our kids to play in the VFL firsts on a regular basis.

[jeemak]

Makes you wonder why we didn't stick with the two teams like north has done with Werribee and Nth Ballarat.

If we would of stayed with Willy and Werribee we could of got all our kids to play in the VFL firsts on a regular basis.

There's pro's and con's to each structure. If you can give me a difinitive answer on whether North's development will be better for their system then I'll happily hear it.

They haven't been in a reasonable position to challenge since, well the last time they reached a prelim in 2007.........We all know how that ended.

[GVGjr]

Makes you wonder why we didn't stick with the two teams like north has done with Werribee and Nth Ballarat.

If we would of stayed with Willy and Werribee we could of got all our kids to play in the VFL firsts on a regular basis.

We only had one year with players split between Williamston and Werribee. They even had a mini draft between the two teams to split the players. From memory Christian Macri was the first player selected.

Splitting the already thin coaching resources was the main issue back then and the reason why we eventually went with Werribee.

[Twodogs]

Do you mind giving us kids a bit of a history lesson on this?


Pinched their two best players when they were vulnerable.
Helped kill off Yarraville.


Yeah pretty much that. Fotheringham kicked the ton a couple of times with Yarraville and Sait had won the competition B&F (the Field medal) a couple of years before.

It's not Willy's fault that Yarraville folded. Yarraville were on the floor in a bloody mess at the time. Broke, no sponsor, very few players. Willy and Yarraville hated one another with a passion and Willy happily danced on the Eagles grave.