Cooney & Roughead to the forward line?

[Go_Dogs]

I know it was spoken about a few years ago now that Cooney would spend more time in the forward line, but it never seemed to eventuate back then as we continued to persist with him in the middle with the occasional stint resting forwards.

For mine, it's now time to play him as a semi-permanent forward who, when he's feeling up to it, or at crucial moments in the game, can swing himself into the midfield.

Cooney has shown this year that he still can have a little burst of pace - true this wasn't the case on Sunday but it was his first game back - so he should be able to get a little bit of separation on the lead. He has great hands on the lead and overhead. He's a good set shot for goal and is also good at crumbing a goal.

His lack of defensive accountability (he didn't lay a single tackle against the Pies) is perhaps an area of concern, but if he's given the strong mandate that he needs to be accountable to an opponent as well as look to get dangerous when we're on the offensive, I think he can add more to the side in this role than Picken did on the weekend, and Addison did on the weekend.

Roughead is another I'd like to see pushed forward until such time as Cordy is able to return. We need another big body down there to assist Jones and Stringer, and Roughead can also chop out in the ruck. Austin seems to be in good form in the VFL and I think he'd go OK in the backline against the Tigers. It might not be a permanent solution, but once Cordy is back, Roughy can return to the backline where he has been doing an admirable job under pressure.

I'd really like to see us go in with something like:-

Stringer, Jones, Hunter
Cooney, Roughead, Dahlhaus

this weekend and see if it can make us a bit quicker in the front half, a bit more potent and create some more headaches for opposition sides.

Thoughts?

[whythelongface]

Whilst in theory the Roughead move sounds good what I would be concerned about is having Austin at FB. Sure he might go ok at VFL level but he is not near AFL standard and up against Riewoldt would be a monumental task for him. I don't see anyone else stepping into the role of FB at the moment.

Agree with your sentiments on Cooney. If he is not effective off half back give him a stint in the forward line - would prefer him at HF as opposed to FP.

[bornadog]

Whilst in theory the Roughead move sounds good what I would be concerned about is having Austin at FB. Sure he might go ok at VFL level but he is not near AFL standard and up against Riewoldt would be a monumental task for him. I don't see anyone else stepping into the role of FB at the moment.

Agree with your sentiments on Cooney. If he is not effective off half back give him a stint in the forward line - would prefer him at HF as opposed to FP.

This^^^

Macca has said that he would like to develop a strong back line. He has tried to mould a back six and slowly its coming together with Roughead, JJ, Talia as the new breed, Goodes as the stop gap for a few years, Morris as the old hand, with one role still up for grabs. I think the back six is coming together, although Roughead has a long way to go as does Talia, mainly due to experience. I would be reluctant to move Roughead, although its tempting.

I didn't like Cooney's role last weekend against the Pies, he was rusty, and it wasn't an attacking style. A forward move like Griff#16 has suggested I can agree with.

[LostDoggy]

Agreed.

Was very confusing to see Cooney starting down back over the weekend, in front of Cloke (who still had a day out) when we needed a forward target like him, even act like a decoy forward. I hope they rethink where they play him this week

[F'scary]

I am in the try Cooney forward brigade too.

I am in the play Roughead forward/2nd ruck brigade as well.

I am not in the ...until Cordy returns brigade.

The Ayce needs to do a bit of an apprenticeship in the reserves playing first ruck. He should earn a game on form or the need for a 1st ruck (e.g., Minson is suspended). Neither Minson nor Cordy (to date) look good playing forward. Roughead does.

Markovic or Austin to be tried at full-back. A game on the Whinger this week will be a good challenge to start with.

[LostDoggy]

I want to keep Roughy down back with Morris. I think he's shown a lot of promise and will become a great KP back by 2015 if given time to continue to mature.

Markovic and Austin have no future at this level i'm affraid.

[The Underdog]

I'm going to contradict myself somewhat. I think that long term Roughead has the makings of a very solid full back and would like him to stay there, however currently we have no decent available options for a tall forward/ 2nd ruck. I'd be fine with bringing Austin in to play back, and playing Roughy forward for a few weeks.
I would like to see both Cordy & Roberts get a shot in the role before season's end though and Roughy to return to FB.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Jones should go back.
He is not a forward.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I know it was spoken about a few years ago now that Cooney would spend more time in the forward line, but it never seemed to eventuate back then as we continued to persist with him in the middle with the occasional stint resting forwards.

For mine, it's now time to play him as a semi-permanent forward who, when he's feeling up to it, or at crucial moments in the game, can swing himself into the midfield.

Cooney has shown this year that he still can have a little burst of pace - true this wasn't the case on Sunday but it was his first game back - so he should be able to get a little bit of separation on the lead. He has great hands on the lead and overhead. He's a good set shot for goal and is also good at crumbing a goal.

His lack of defensive accountability (he didn't lay a single tackle against the Pies) is perhaps an area of concern, but if he's given the strong mandate that he needs to be accountable to an opponent as well as look to get dangerous when we're on the offensive, I think he can add more to the side in this role than Picken did on the weekend, and Addison did on the weekend.

Roughead is another I'd like to see pushed forward until such time as Cordy is able to return. We need another big body down there to assist Jones and Stringer, and Roughead can also chop out in the ruck. Austin seems to be in good form in the VFL and I think he'd go OK in the backline against the Tigers. It might not be a permanent solution, but once Cordy is back, Roughy can return to the backline where he has been doing an admirable job under pressure.

I'd really like to see us go in with something like:-

Stringer, Jones, Hunter
Cooney, Roughead, Dahlhaus

this weekend and see if it can make us a bit quicker in the front half, a bit more potent and create some more headaches for opposition sides.

Thoughts?

I can see Morris taking Riewolt which would be a good match up with Talia on Vickery. This would allow Roughead to play as a key forward and give badly needed support to both Jones and Stringer. Cooney is best suited in the midfield with Murphy preferred at half forward. I would be inclined to start Gia this week against a Tiger back line that can be vulnerable. This would leave Hunter to become the sub. I would recall Hrovat to add some badly needed pace and good disposal.
In: Hunter, Hrovat
Out: Markovic, Addison

[mighty_west]

Jones, Roughead, Grant, Cordy, unfortunatly you cannot bank your house on any of these players consistantly slotting through majors which in return hurts the sides mental aspect to keep motivated at a consistant level to succeed, therefor Roughead stays back, for mine.

He is also being groomed for, and has showed some great signs at full back, Cloke bagged 5 or 6 on him on the weekend, then again, who doesn't Cloke kick bags on? On any normal day, 3 of those, especially the kicks from the boundary line would have missed........easily.

Cooney on the other hand, keep him out of the backline, and back in the guts alongside Griff & Dahl to provide spark and run which we desperatly need at times.

[mighty_west]

Jones should go back.
He is not a forward.

I actually thought he should have played CHB last year, just to help him out and get confidence back, take the pressure from him and make him work hard to hold a player, i remember Cam Mooney talking about himself playing back and really being the turning point in his game.

[bulldogtragic]

Jones should go back.
He is not a forward.
Yep. I'd address this first.

[LostDoggy]

Just had a quick theory about Cooney playing CHB last week....maybe Macca thought it was actually Tom Young in our side? :D

[bornadog]

Just had a quick theory about Cooney playing CHB last week....maybe Macca thought it was actually Tom Young in our side? :D

Good one Alex :D:D

[bulldogtragic]

Thought I would put up Roughies stats from his career to date to see if they support the move down back:

2010 - 11.3 disposals - 4 marks - 9.3 hit outs - 2.4 tackles - rating 60.3
2011 - 11.2 disposals - 3.1 marks - 8.4 hit outs - 3.1 tackles - rating 57.3
2012 - 10.8 disposals - 4.2 marks - 5.8 hit outs - 2.7 tackles - rating 56.6
2013 - 10.5 disposals - 5.1 marks - 0.3 hit outs - 2.9 tackles - rating 52.1

Just meaningless stats or something to talk about...

[bornadog]

Thought I would put up Roughies stats from his career to date to see if they support the move down back:

2010 - 11.3 disposals - 4 marks - 9.3 hit outs - 2.4 tackles - rating 60.3
2011 - 11.2 disposals - 3.1 marks - 8.4 hit outs - 3.1 tackles - rating 57.3
2012 - 10.8 disposals - 4.2 marks - 5.8 hit outs - 2.7 tackles - rating 56.6
2013 - 10.5 disposals - 5.1 marks - 0.3 hit outs - 2.9 tackles - rating 52.1

Just meaningless stats or something to talk about...


They don't really tell us a lot. Need to also look at the number of spoils (not sure where to get that) to see how effective he is? A good measurement is to compare him to the number one spoiler Gibson at the Hawks. Marks are up, which is great.

[bulldogtragic]

They don't really tell us a lot. Need to also look at the number of spoils (not sure where to get that) to see how effective he is? A good measurement is to compare him to the number one spoiler Gibson at the Hawks. Marks are up, which is great.
Gibson averages 7.8 1% a game this year, Roughie 6.7. Ranked about 16th in the league, behind almost all other key defenders. Lake is 3rd in the league on averages.

Gibson is 4th for interception marks, Roughie is not on the list.,(top 50)
Gibson is 17th for rebound 50's. Roughie is not on the list (top 50).
Roughie is 27th for contested marks, and has it all over Gibson. But Lake is about 40% higher on averages.

I'm only comparing as suggested. I'm not comparing Roughie with Lake, as its not fair, as Lake is miles ahead in the stats and development obviously. This is just for conversation. Perhaps things are more subjective than objective.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I know it was spoken about a few years ago now that Cooney would spend more time in the forward line, but it never seemed to eventuate back then as we continued to persist with him in the middle with the occasional stint resting forwards.

For mine, it's now time to play him as a semi-permanent forward who, when he's feeling up to it, or at crucial moments in the game, can swing himself into the midfield.

Cooney has shown this year that he still can have a little burst of pace - true this wasn't the case on Sunday but it was his first game back - so he should be able to get a little bit of separation on the lead. He has great hands on the lead and overhead. He's a good set shot for goal and is also good at crumbing a goal.

His lack of defensive accountability (he didn't lay a single tackle against the Pies) is perhaps an area of concern, but if he's given the strong mandate that he needs to be accountable to an opponent as well as look to get dangerous when we're on the offensive, I think he can add more to the side in this role than Picken did on the weekend, and Addison did on the weekend.

Roughead is another I'd like to see pushed forward until such time as Cordy is able to return. We need another big body down there to assist Jones and Stringer, and Roughead can also chop out in the ruck. Austin seems to be in good form in the VFL and I think he'd go OK in the backline against the Tigers. It might not be a permanent solution, but once Cordy is back, Roughy can return to the backline where he has been doing an admirable job under pressure.

I'd really like to see us go in with something like:-

Stringer, Jones, Hunter
Cooney, Roughead, Dahlhaus

this weekend and see if it can make us a bit quicker in the front half, a bit more potent and create some more headaches for opposition sides.

Thoughts?
There has been a reluctance to move Roughead to the forward line by the MC. I would like to see it happen if and when Roughy could be replaced by Roberts in the key defence role. I am not convinced about Cooney as a forward. I still think his best role is using him in the midfield alternating off the bench in quick sharp bursts. You have left Gia out of the attack, where he has been our best forward in the last 4-5 games.
I would play Murphy rather than Cooney at half forward.

[The Underdog]

There has been a reluctance to move Roughead to the forward line by the MC. I would like to see it happen if and when Roughy could be replaced by Roberts in the key defence role. I am not convinced about Cooney as a forward. I still think his best role is using him in the midfield alternating off the bench in quick sharp bursts. You have left Gia out of the attack, where he has been our best forward in the last 4-5 games.
I would play Murphy rather than Cooney at half forward.

To be fair, Griff's post is over 3 weeks old. I'm not sure why we wouldn't try Roberts forward first. He's shown an ability to kick goals at VFL level and would allow Roughead to continue learning at full back while providing us with more flexibility than Cordy.

[Ozza]

I think with Roughead and Talia - we have an opportunity to put together the defensive spine for the next 10 years. They've played less than 50 games between them at the moment - they could be a formidable duo in 50 games time.

I don't mind Roughead occasionally swinging forward to change it up, and create a mismatch - but he is clearly more assured in defence.

Cooney has never really had much of an impact when he has gone forward. But I'm not against him playing a high-half forward role.

[wimberga]

What about if we compared Roughead to someone closer to his development with a somewhat similar team profile like an Alex Rance or Tom McDonald?

[SlimPickens]

What about if we compared Roughead to someone closer to his development with a somewhat similar team profile like an Alex Rance or Tom McDonald?

Not sure what you mean? Are you suggesting he is performing on par or better than the two you've suggested?

Personally I like what roughy is doing at full back and think he'll continue to improve in this position. Unfortunately he is also our best 2nd Ruck/forward option as well.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think with Roughead and Talia - we have an opportunity to put together the defensive spine for the next 10 years. They've played less than 50 games between them at the moment - they could be a formidable duo in 50 games time.

I don't mind Roughead occasionally swinging forward to change it up, and create a mismatch - but he is clearly more assured in defence.

Cooney has never really had much of an impact when he has gone forward. But I'm not against him playing a high-half forward role.

I can quite understand your theory on Roughead and Talia. Unfortunately our greatest need is a key forward and that is why you would be tempted to see Roughead moved into attack allowing the possibility of developing another key defender with Talia. Roughead could also be a support to Minson in the ruck. I cannot see us succeeding with simply Cordy Jones and Stringer up forward. IMO in one of the stronger clubs, Stringer and Jones would possibly be your third tall at best. Both Jones and Stringer need more experienced support to become better players in the future.

[G-Mo77]

Not sure what you mean? Are you suggesting he is performing on par or better than the two you've suggested?

Personally I like what roughy is doing at full back and think he'll continue to improve in this position. Unfortunately he is also our best 2nd Ruck/forward option as well.

He meant that the statsman should compare him to someone other than seasoned veterans to try and prove a meaningless point.

I think he's doing a fine job where he is especially being such a tough gig. If we can get Roberts in maybe Roughy could go back to the 2nd Ruck/Forward role until then he's in defence as far as I'm concerned.

[bulldogtragic]

What about if we compared Roughead to someone closer to his development with a somewhat similar team profile like an Alex Rance or Tom McDonald?
I'd be happy to. I was asked specifically about Gibson, hence my reply.

[bulldogtragic]

He meant that the statsman should compare him to someone other than seasoned veterans to try and prove a meaningless point.

I think he's doing a fine job where he is especially being such a tough gig. If we can get Roberts in maybe Roughy could go back to the 2nd Ruck/Forward role until then he's in defence as far as I'm concerned.
Enlighten me GMo.

BAD asks me to compare Gibson and Roughie. So I do. No commentary. What is my meaningless point?

Wimberga has suggested another comparison. I will get that as soon as time permits. Or will I offend others by offering another meaningless point by doing what is suggested of me by another poster?

[G-Mo77]

Enlighten me GMo.

BAD asks me compare Gibson and Roughie. So I do. What is my meaningless point?

You knew what you were doing.

[Greystache]

I can quite understand your theory on Roughead and Talia. Unfortunately our greatest need is a key forward and that is why you would be tempted to see Roughead moved into attack allowing the possibility of developing another key defender with Talia. Roughead could also be a support to Minson in the ruck. I cannot see us succeeding with simply Cordy Jones and Stringer up forward. IMO in one of the stronger clubs, Stringer and Jones would possibly be your third tall at best. Both Jones and Stringer need more experienced support to become better players in the future.

I agree with you on all of that, but I'd prefer to see what Roberts can show as a key forward before changing around our structure by moving Roughead. For me Roughead only showed glimpses of talent in that 2nd ruck/forward role and it's only since moving into defence he's really blossomed as an AFL footballer and become a key part of the team. He may eventually excel further up the ground but I think the time he's spending in defence is crucial to his development.

[bulldogtragic]

You knew what you were doing.
Really, we both know what you think of me. Accordingly, you view all comments as being negative, critical and unsupportive. Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion of me and what you think of my comments. But lets look at this thread for what I have said, not what you read into it:

Post 15: let's look at stats, do they confirm or reject him moving down back? Nothing negative from me whatsoever. A conversation starter, in fact I suggest that they my be "meaningless stats"

Post 16: BAD: please compare him with Gibson

Post 17: the aforementioned comparison as requested.

Quote, "I'm only comparing as suggested. I'm not comparing Roughie with Lake, as its not fair, as Lake is miles ahead in the stats and development obviously. This is just for conversation. Perhaps things are more subjective than objective."


I have not suggested the move to FB has been bad.
I have not suggested he be moved.
I have not said any of the stats are reflective of him as a player of KPB.
I have said the stats may be meaningless and that things are more subjective than objective.
As far as I can tell, I have responded to a suggestion and made no adverse comment.
I have also committed to doing another comparison against another player, as suggested by another poster.

So again, what is my meaningless point?

[bornadog]

Enlighten me GMo.

BAD asks me to compare Gibson and Roughie. So I do. No commentary. What is my meaningless point?

Wimberga has suggested another comparison. I will get that as soon as time permits. Or will I offend others by offering another meaningless point by doing what is suggested of me by another poster?

Thanks BT, the comparison was to see how Roughie measures up with other stats rather than straight disposals and marks. Gibson is a good comparison for spoils as he has been ranked highly. Lake is a great contested mark and there are others who are great at rebound 50.

Overall, Roughie has a long way to go to be considered a good fullback. At times he struggles with trying to watch the man and ball and seems to get lost. It all comes down to experience.

Unless we can find a better option at fullback, I wouldn't move him to the forward line, would prefer we try some different options like Roberts.

[G-Mo77]

So again, what is my meaningless point?

Oh my apologies, you must be wearing a different hat this week. I should take it up with bulldogtragic from say around mid to late June about what he thought about Roughead to FB.

Carry on.

[bulldogtragic]

Oh my apologies, you must be wearing a different hat this week. I should take it up with bulldogtragic from say around mid to late June about what he thought about Roughead to FB.

Carry on.
Quality work GMo.

I've asked twice what is my meaningless point, and you won't answer. You wont focus on the issue of what i have said or not said, you only focus on your negative perception of me. You freely admit to using pre-conceptions of me when considering current comments, no matter how Different they are from reality. How can I do anything but meet your expectations when you assume the worst of me, on what basis I'm not sure.

And yes, I do reserve the right to consider, review and even change my opinion. Unlike some, I freely admit I don't know everything and that will I may be opinionated, my opinion my not always be correct. I listen to others here and temper my thoughts and opinions accordingly. You know damn well I've been tapped on the shoulder to not be as negative as I was apparently being, and that acted as a catalyst for me to stand back from the edge and give more consideration to what I was thinking and expressing. I'm happy to be called out if I'm overstepping the line, but when I'm responding to another poster about what they would like me to do with my spare time - and that's all I'm doing, then I call BS. For all your sanctimonious crap about me being negative, you're the one in the glass house being negative towards me.

Carry on in deed.

[G-Mo77]

When you shout something from the rooftops it's hard for me to think you would change your opinion so quickly, geez it wasn't that long ago. Can you blame me?

All the other BS you're carrying on about is your own paranoia.

[bulldogtragic]

When you shout something from the rooftops it's hard for me to think you would change your opinion so quickly, geez it wasn't that long ago. Can you blame me?

All the other BS you're carrying on about is your own paranoia.
I can actually.

I am happy to be judged on what I say. I am happy to be proven wrong. I am happy to retract and reconsider my opinions. I'm happy to tone down my frustration because its not constructive for other members. I am happy to put the greater good of WOOF ahead of my need to vent negativity. WOOF has been one of the longest commitments in my life (6 1/2 years) so I do not treat it lightly.

However, I am not happy to have illegimate assumptions made on my comments. I'm not happy to have wrong inferences and innuendo on every post, especially when I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm not happy I can't be judged on face value. Whilst I completely understand, I am not happy that someone with the grievance you expressed in one thread took that same grievance to a moderator within 15 minutes, and not to me. Maybe I'm not approachable online as I am in real life.

Perhaps things get lost in translation on the net. At the end of the day, please take me at face value or ignore me.

[Go_Dogs]

Let's try and keep on track with the OP gents.

[bulldogtragic]

What about if we compared Roughead to someone closer to his development with a somewhat similar team profile like an Alex Rance or Tom McDonald?
Rance and Roughead are equal 4th in the AFL for 1%ers.
Rance is 16th for marks, Roughead 54th
Rance is 20th in contested marks, Roughead is similar
Rance average disposal is 14.9, Roughead 10.5 disposals
Rance averages marks are 6.6, Roughead 5.1 marks
Rance is 16th for rebounds, Roughead is not listed, about 1/3 less
Contested possession and disposal effectiveness are just favouring Rance too

Super coach: Rance 83.6, Roughead 66.6
Dream team: Rance 66.4, Roughead 52.1

[The Pie Man]

Rance and Roughead are equal 4th in the AFL for 1%ers.
Rance is 16th for marks, Roughead 54th
Rance is 20th in contested marks, Roughead is similar
Rance average disposal is 14.9, Roughead 10.5 disposals
Rance averages marks are 6.6, Roughead 5.1 marks
Rance is 16th for rebounds, Roughead is not listed, about 1/3 less
Contested possession and disposal effectiveness are just favouring Rance too

Super coach: Rance 83.6, Roughead 66.6
Dream team: Rance 66.4, Roughead 52.1

It's a good comparison

Rance : 80 games
Roughead : 49 games

[bornadog]

It's a good comparison

Rance : 80 games
Roughead : 49 games

I prefer Roughead over Rance. Rance seems a little short and struggles on the bigger forwards.

[wimberga]

Rance and Roughead are equal 4th in the AFL for 1%ers.
Rance is 16th for marks, Roughead 54th
Rance is 20th in contested marks, Roughead is similar
Rance average disposal is 14.9, Roughead 10.5 disposals
Rance averages marks are 6.6, Roughead 5.1 marks
Rance is 16th for rebounds, Roughead is not listed, about 1/3 less
Contested possession and disposal effectiveness are just favouring Rance too

Super coach: Rance 83.6, Roughead 66.6
Dream team: Rance 66.4, Roughead 52.1

Thanks for that BT - apologies if my original post wasn't clear and appreciate you looking those numbers up.

I am actually quite surprised by those numbers, as similar to another poster, I prefer Roughead and don't really rate Rance so much.

The things that I really want to see are the 1%ers and contested marks, as these are the things I see Roughead offering.

I don't really mind if he gets the ball 10 times or 20 times per game because I don't see him as an attacking weapon. If he can lift those contested marks up ala previous champion B Lake, and Macca can provide the rebounding cattle at his feet, we will have a very very good Full back.

How do you feel about these numbers BT?

[LostDoggy]

Roughead didn't show a lot up forward, but perhaps it's time to give him another go now that he is a confident footballer. He has looked alright when swung there a couple of times this year.

I think most of us would prefer to have Cooney up forward than down back at the moment.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks for that BT - apologies if my original post wasn't clear and appreciate you looking those numbers up.

I am actually quite surprised by those numbers, as similar to another poster, I prefer Roughead and don't really rate Rance so much.

The things that I really want to see are the 1%ers and contested marks, as these are the things I see Roughead offering.

I don't really mind if he gets the ball 10 times or 20 times per game because I don't see him as an attacking weapon. If he can lift those contested marks up ala previous champion B Lake, and Macca can provide the rebounding cattle at his feet, we will have a very very good Full back.

How do you feel about these numbers BT?
Very happy with 1%ers and contested marks. I'm not as concerned about disposals, it may just mean Richmond may 'go through' Rance a little more, that would explain his high rate of uncontested marks. With efficiency by foot about 84%, I can see why they would use Rance for sure. Or it may just be their gameplan??

It may be my bulldog goggles on, but my gut says Roughie is a better player. He is certainly more versatile that is for sure too.

[LostDoggy]

Rance has more goals kicked on him than most defenders, although Roughy's leaked a few in recent times I guess.

[always right]

Whilst stats can obviously be informative, for once I'd love a discussion around a player to be based on what we actually see rather than run to the stats to form an opinion. Anyone with any sort of football nouse can see that Roughy has developed significantly since he's been pushed into defence. That's not to say he hasn't got a lot of improvement to go but I see enormous potential in him and I've been happy with what I've seen this year. He already looks to me to be a better footballer than Rance and I don't care if the stats say otherwise.

[bornadog]

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[Mofra]

B-Mac's presser noted that he wasn't sure whether Roughie would be "a good fullback or a good CHF/ruck for the next 10 years".

Interesting comment that's largely been glossed over - makes you wonder if we don't have another tall defender on the radar that would release Roughead forward in coming seasons, or at least give us flexibility to use him as the swingman role trialled by Austin & Markovic this year.

[Bulldog4life]

B-Mac's presser noted that he wasn't sure whether Roughie would be "a good fullback or a good CHF/ruck for the next 10 years".

Interesting comment that's largely been glossed over - makes you wonder if we don't have another tall defender on the radar that would release Roughead forward in coming seasons, or at least give us flexibility to use him as the swingman role trialled by Austin & Markovic this year.

Yes I heard that too Mofra. First indication I have heard from Macca that Roughy mightn't end up our fullback.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes I heard that too Mofra. First indication I have heard from Macca that Roughy mightn't end up our fullback.
I would like us to make a decision at seasons end and stop the debate. This will then directly affect what sort of KPP we need come trade/PSD time. Either Roughie stays back and we go after a forward (2nd ruck) or we commit him forward (2nd ruck) and go after a decent backman.

7 games until D-Day for mine.

[G-Mo77]

Yes I heard that too Mofra. First indication I have heard from Macca that Roughy mightn't end up our fullback.

It certainly is. He did make reference to a tall defender returning from injury a few weeks ago. Didn't mention any names but I assumed it was Fletch. He's played the swingman role at Willy when he has been healthy.


I would like us to make a decision at seasons end and stop the debate. This will then directly affect what sort of KPP we need come trade/PSD time. Either Roughie stays back and we go after a forward (2nd ruck) or we commit him forward (2nd ruck) and go after a decent backman.

7 games until D-Day for mine.

I don't think we have to pigeon hole Roughy or anyone else for that matter. If we inject another young tall before the seasons out and again I'll assume Fletch will get a run very soon, we become just a little more versatile on either end of the ground.

[bulldogtragic]

It certainly is. He did make reference to a tall defender returning from injury a few weeks ago. Didn't mention any names but I assumed it was Fletch. He's played the swingman role at Willy when he has been healthy.



I don't think we have to pigeon hole Roughy or anyone else for that matter. If we inject another young tall before the seasons out and again I'll assume Fletch will get a run very soon, we become just a little more versatile on either end of the ground.
Do you think Roughie has the attributes to play 'the swing man'?

I'm not sold that he shouldn't specialise in one position before swinging. I'd at least like us to work out which end he is better at, then draft/trade accordingly.

[G-Mo77]

Do you think Roughie has the attributes to play 'the swing man'?

I'm not sold that he shouldn't specialise in one position before swinging. I'd at least like us to work out which end he is better at, then draft/trade accordingly.

If all goes to plan then yeah, he can play that role. I reckon he would have played it a bit more this year had Williams not been injured.

[bulldogtragic]

If all goes to plan then yeah, he can play that role. I reckon he would have played it a bit more this year had Williams not been injured.
Interesting. Williams was the hope for the swing man role this year. How would you structure up next year with Williams and Roughie? Two swing men, one settled to a position etc, etc.

[G-Mo77]

Interesting. Williams was the hope for the swing man role this year. How would you structure up next year with Williams and Roughie? Two swing men, one settled to a position etc, etc.

Roughie Forward/Ruck, Williams back. I don't hold much hope for that to last long though, Tommy just can't stay on the park. :(

[bulldogtragic]

Roughie Forward/Ruck, Williams back. I don't hold much hope for that to last long though, Tommy just can't stay on the park. :(
My thoughts on all counts.... Poor Tommy.... Seems to me if the club is thinking the same thing we might need a seasoned tall defender over a tall forward, if we have any choice.

[bornadog]

Roughie Forward/Ruck, Williams back. I don't hold much hope for that to last long though, Tommy just can't stay on the park. :(

If he stayed on the park, that would be my preference as well.

[LostDoggy]

I would like us to make a decision at seasons end and stop the debate. This will then directly affect what sort of KPP we need come trade/PSD time. Either Roughie stays back and we go after a forward (2nd ruck) or we commit him forward (2nd ruck) and go after a decent backman.

7 games until D-Day for mine.

Just because the decision isn't public doesn't mean one has or hasn't been made.

[bulldogtragic]

Just because the decision isn't public doesn't mean one has or hasn't been made.
If BMac says he's unsure if Roughie will be "a good fullback or a good CHF/ruck for the next 10 years", then I am assuming he's still not decided....

Hence my thoughts, it would be good to settle this moving forward, Publicly or not.

[bornadog]

If BMac says he's unsure if Roughie will be "a good fullback or a good CHF/ruck for the next 10 years", then I am assuming he's still not decided....

A luncheon I went to a few months ago he said the same thing. He just wants to see how it pans out and who steps up to the roles.

[bulldogtragic]

A luncheon I went to a few months ago he said the same thing. He just wants to see how it pans out and who steps up to the roles.
It's healthy to have an open mind on such important team roles, so that's good by him. I'd like by he end of the year to be a little bit firmer.

[LostDoggy]

KPP's drafted in contemporary times have a habit of moving in the opposite direction from where their junior football was played. We'll go tall with a couple of late picks I feel.

[Mofra]

There's always the mid-career move. Gehrig played predominately FB for WCE, becomes a gun FF for St Kilda.

We saw Carlisle (normally a backman) play well forward two weeks ago. Hurley plays both ends, ditto Henderson. Flexibility in position seems to be more common these days than previously - most players would probably fit the old tag of "utility".

[G-Mo77]

We saw Carlisle (normally a backman) play well forward two weeks ago. Hurley plays both ends, ditto Henderson. Flexibility in position seems to be more common these days than previously - most players would probably fit the old tag of "utility".

Harry Taylor and Ben Reid have been doing it really well this year.

Ben Reid was a failed forward early in his career at Collingwood.

[boydogs]

It's healthy to have an open mind on such important team roles, so that's good by him. I'd like by he end of the year to be a little bit firmer.

Did you feel the same way on Chris Grant?

[bulldogtragic]

Did you feel the same way on Chris Grant?
So you're saying Roughead will poll the most votes at the Brownlow this year?? If we are comparing apples.

[Ghost Dog]

The coach said in the presser he's not sure where he will end up in the future. We simply do not have enough players who are flexible like that. The modern game demands more all-rounders in a team, and we have so few. Makes Jordan's efforts down back a highlight of the season so far.

[boydogs]

So you're saying Roughead will poll the most votes at the Brownlow this year?? If we are comparing apples.

No, of course not. Just wondering whether you have felt that other players capable of playing multiple roles in the past should have just concentrated on one of them.