Milne Charged

[bulldogtragic]

According to news.com.au

Steven Milne has been charged with 4 counts of rape over a 2004 incident at Leigh Montagnas home.

[bornadog]

Just be careful what is commented on this forum.

[always right]

Can't imagine Milne playing this week as he will be under enormous pressure. I expect the club will suspend him for a period of time. Unlikely to be any winners in this sorry episode.

[bulldogtragic]

Journos are already saying that when Lovett was charged, the St Kilda management sacked him. So they are building the expectation that the same apply.

Bad day for the AFL and those that love the game.

[LostDoggy]

Either way, at least he'll get his day in court. He has been copping it for 9 years without a real chance to put up a defence. Even now, it's going to be very tough for him to get a fair trial.

Without knowing anything about it or much about the law, I'd guess it'd also be bloody tough to make a rape case stick 9 years on. They'd want to have a good prosecutor on it.

[G-Mo77]

Bad day for the AFL and those that love the game.

I love the game but couldn't give a stuff about it being tarnished. I'd be more pleased to see justice served to someone who has committed one of the worst crimes anyone could possibly commit. Rapists deserve to rot in jail and if Milne is guilty I hope he does just that.

I feel more for the girl who has carried this for 9 years.

[EasternWest]

Journos are already saying that when Lovett was charged, the St Kilda management sacked him. So they are building the expectation that the same apply.

Bad day for the AFL and those that love the game.

I agree with you totally, and think he may be sacked. Love or hate him, he's been a very good player. I wonder if his treatment at the hands of his club (whatever that may be), would've been the same were he still at the peak of his powers?


Either way, at least he'll get his day in court. He has been copping it for 9 years without a real chance to put up a defence. Even now, it's going to be very tough for him to get a fair trial.

Well said BAS, justice run its course etc. I'm gonna keep my powder dry on this one, I think that's the only way to play it.

[chef]

Prefer to wait and see the outcome before I comment.

[Go_Dogs]

Everyone, let's be careful about what is posted here about this. At this stage a charge has been laid but it is only an allegation that will either be proven or not once the process has run it's course. Speculation of his guilt or innocence is unproductive at this point in time. Let's just stick to the facts as presented in the media.

[KT31]

There should be an investigation into why it has taken so long to charge him.

[bulldogtragic]

There should be an investigation into why it has taken so long to charge him.
That's how the charges have actually come about. The OPI got involved and reviewed it with VicPol.

[Ghost Dog]

Not good for anybody. Period.
Damages the game, families, clubs, even accusations of this nature hurt. Hasn't been convicted yet.

[bulldogtragic]

On a not so serious note, IF he is found guilty, will the AFL refund Malthouses fine...

[EasternWest]

On a not so serious note, IF he is found guilty, will the AFL refund Malthouses fine...

According to Mick he was only talking to his players. I think he was encouraging them to respond with equally witty comments. I believe he was saying: "riposte".

Ok. I'm not meaning to make light of the topic at hand at all in relation to Milne.

[G-Mo77]

There should be an investigation into why it has taken so long to charge him.


That's how the charges have actually come about. The OPI got involved and reviewed it with VicPol.

Wasn't there also corruption involved with the case earlier.

[bulldogtragic]

Wasn't there also corruption involved with the case earlier.
I was working at Moorabbin when this happened. One of the Senior Sergents for the division was a senior St Kilda FC trainer. I have no knowledge of interference, and would like to think not, but I think the mere facts create potential for a conflict of interest. With all the issues the matter had, it's an easy thing to alledge interference, but I'm not sure what evidence there is to support the contention.

[Eastdog]

I was working at Moorabbin when this happened. One of the Senior Sergents for the division was a senior St Kilda FC trainer. I have no knowledge of interference, and would like to think not, but I think the mere facts create potential for a conflict of interest. With all the issues the matter had, it's an easy thing to alledge interference, but I'm not sure what evidence there is to support the contention.

How long ago was that?

[bulldogtragic]

How long ago was that?
When the allegations were made way back when.

[Eastdog]

When the allegations were made way back when.

Basically when the whole corruption thing went down

[bulldogtragic]

Basically when the whole corruption thing went down
I was there for over 4 years. From when the complaint was laid, the process and everything in between. I haven't heard anything that constitutes corruption. That's a very serious label that gets used too quickly. I have more faith in the professionalism of the VicPol members.

[Eastdog]

I was there for over 4 years. From when the complaint was laid, the process and everything in between. I haven't heard anything that constitutes corruption. That's a very serious label that gets used too quickly. I have more faith in the professionalism of the VicPol members.

Yeah your right we don't know the full story of what went down.

[Maddog37]

According to Mick he was only talking to his players. I think he was encouraging them to respond with equally witty comments. I believe he was saying: "riposte".

Ok. I'm not meaning to make light of the topic at hand at all in relation to Milne.


Riposte! Gold:D

[bulldogtragic]

Lovett has hit social media and attacked St Kilda for double standards.

[Remi Moses]

Lovett has hit social media and attacked St Kilda for double standards.

He has a pretty good point.
I'd say the case being "inadequately" investigated might say something.

[westdog54]

He has a pretty good point.
I'd say the case being "inadequately" investigated might say something.

Clarify?

As far as Lovett goes its just not that simple. Lovett had a history and I have no doubt he had a contract written such that it would be easy enough for StKilda to move him on if he didn't meet certain criteria. The fact that there hasn't been a successful court action against StKilda in regards to his sacking speaks volumes IMO.

[GVGjr]

Just be careful what is commented on this forum.

Wise words. It's important we all understand the old "Innocent until proven Guilty" position.

[Remi Moses]

Clarify?

As far as Lovett goes its just not that simple. Lovett had a history and I have no doubt he had a contract written such that it would be easy enough for StKilda to move him on if he didn't meet certain criteria. The fact that there hasn't been a successful court action against StKilda in regards to his sacking speaks volumes IMO.

Don't shoot the messenger.
Reported to have been "inadequately" investigated in 2004!:confused:
I don't like Andrew Lovett but he was sacked

[Dancin' Douggy]

Riposte! Gold:D

Thought he was calling the team TAPIRS! Yes Tapirs are real.

[westdog54]

Don't shoot the messenger.
Reported to have been "inadequately" investigated in 2004!:confused:
I don't like Andrew Lovett but he was sacked

I have no doubt it was inadequately investigated, the whole thing stank to high heaven back then and still does.

Just not sure what you meant by it 'saying something'.

[bulldogtragic]

Bob Murphy just said the AFLPA will support the decision of Milne if he decides to play this week.

[Remi Moses]

I have no doubt it was inadequately investigated, the whole thing stank to high heaven back then and still does.

Just not sure what you meant by it 'saying something'.

Just found the investigation involving someone who held a position at Stkilda as strange to be honest . I think everyone would assume there might be a conflict on interest.
Anyway lets hope justice prevails.

[westdog54]

Just found the investigation involving someone who held a position at Stkilda as strange to be honest . I think everyone would assume there might be a conflict on interest.
Anyway lets hope justice prevails.

In fairness to the best of my knowledge the investigator wasn't a StKilda person, but a person of much higher rank in the same building as him (i.e. not his direct boss) was the one applying the pressure. It doesn't make it right, but saying that the investigation involved 'someone who held a position at StKilda' isn't entirely accurate.

I stand by my comments on Lovett as well.

[Mofra]

Lovett has hit social media and attacked St Kilda for double standards.
Lovett went through about 5 chances over that pre-season, missed training sessions, and when he was in trouble with the police he failed to inform the club.

I have no sympathy for Lovett. At all.

That's before you consider he was acquitted because the alleged victim was drunk and therefore an unreliable witness.

[bornadog]

Milne out indefinitely (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-19/milne-out-indefinitely)

[Go_Dogs]

Milne out indefinitely (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-19/milne-out-indefinitely)

Seems like a wise position to take. Watch this space I guess.

[Remi Moses]

In fairness to the best of my knowledge the investigator wasn't a StKilda person, but a person of much higher rank in the same building as him (i.e. not his direct boss) was the one applying the pressure. It doesn't make it right, but saying that the investigation involved 'someone who held a position at StKilda' isn't entirely accurate.

I stand by my comments on Lovett as well.

I'd read where someone held a position at Stkilda( think it was a trainer)
Basically it's poor form putting pressure on the investigation.Lovett and Gram had been given plenty of rope, so no issue there.
Think the AFL put some pressure on for Milne not to play.

[bulldogtragic]

You would have thought Del Santo and Riewoldt would have checked with the club before telling the media Milne should play this week...

[jeemak]

I'd read where someone held a position at Stkilda( think it was a trainer)
Basically it's poor form putting pressure on the investigation.Lovett and Gram had been given plenty of rope, so no issue there.
Think the AFL put some pressure on for Milne not to play.

Rem, I believe somebody who held a position as a part time but senior trainer at St Kilda also held a reasonably senior position at the investigating jurisdiction, and it was accused of that person by the original investigators that evidence went missing and undue influence over the course of the case came about as a result of that persons' interference.

It should be noted the 2IC of VicPol today stated it should be recognised the investigation was conducted poorly on many levels, including the input of the original investigators.

Like Mof, I have little sympathy for Lovett. I also have very little understanding of why anyone would be monitoring his social media output.

[1eyedog]

You would have thought Del Santo and Riewoldt would have checked with the club before telling the media Milne should play this week...

I thought that was pretty poor for Riewoldt to get on the front foot like that. He really showed no sympathy to the alleged victim or her family either. I thought it was in bad taste and showed just how outer space some mentalities are. Poor form Roo - cringe worthy media work actually.

[Ghost Dog]

I thought that was pretty poor for Riewoldt to get on the front foot like that. He really showed no sympathy to the alleged victim or her family either. I thought it was in bad taste and showed just how outer space some mentalities are. Poor form Roo - cringe worthy media work actually.

I don't know what to think. But innocent until proven guilty I would have suspected is the way to go. It's his work, so should be allowed to continue until found guilty. Is this wrong?

[AndrewP6]

I don't know what to think. But innocent until proven guilty I would have suspected is the way to go. It's his work, so should be allowed to continue until found guilty. Is this wrong?

No, I don't think so. The hysteria over this, when he hasn't been found guilty of anything, is ridiculous.

[1eyedog]

I don't know what to think. But innocent until proven guilty I would have suspected is the way to go. It's his work, so should be allowed to continue until found guilty. Is this wrong?

No probably not, It's all weird, the alleged cover up and I'm thinking the worse of Milne, I can't help it. Listening to too much John faine in the morning I suppose.

[1eyedog]

No, I don't think so. The hysteria over this, when he hasn't been found guilty of anything, is ridiculous.

It is a very, very, VERY serious allegation.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't know what to think. But innocent until proven guilty I would have suspected is the way to go. It's his work, so should be allowed to continue until found guilty. Is this wrong?
I think you must look further. The charges are of the most serious of nature. Not damage, assault, drunkeness, theft. But rape. Sure innocent until proven otherwise, but the gravity of the allegations are such that there needs to be a more wholistic approach and thinking here.

From my past life, I've known many police officers who have been suspended without pay and all were found not guilty. Craig Thompson got dis endorsed for less and will lose his spot in parliament. In my current life I have had reason advise employers regarding suspending employees over certain behaviour. He is still listed, still getting paid. So he has to sit out for a while. So be it.

[AndrewP6]

It is a very, very, VERY serious allegation.

Yes, but that's it - it is an allegation. There are many who have the verdict sewn up already. People need to let the legal processes take place.

[1eyedog]

Yes, but that's it - it is an allegation. There are many who have the verdict sewn up already. People need to let the legal processes take place.

I understand that completely Andrew and I'll leave it there.

[Dry Rot]

He is still listed, still getting paid. So he has to sit out for a while. So be it.

Obviously Milne won't ever play again.

Which other old Sainters will go at the end of this season?

[jeemak]

No probably not, It's all weird, the alleged cover up and I'm thinking the worse of Milne, I can't help it. Listening to too much John faine in the morning I suppose.


It is a very, very, VERY serious allegation.


I think you must look further. The charges are of the most serious of nature. Not damage, assault, drunkeness, theft. But rape. Sure innocent until proven otherwise, but the gravity of the allegations are such that there needs to be a more wholistic approach and thinking here.

From my past life, I've known many police officers who have been suspended without pay and all were found not guilty. Craig Thompson got dis endorsed for less and will lose his spot in parliament. In my current life I have had reason advise employers regarding suspending employees over certain behaviour. He is still listed, still getting paid. So he has to sit out for a while. So be it.


Yes, but that's it - it is an allegation. There are many who have the verdict sewn up already. People need to let the legal processes take place.


I understand that completely Andrew and I'll leave it there.

Gents, what's the point in having any discernible opinion on this matter at all?

We all agree rape is abhorrent. We all agree the charges laid against Milne are very serious. We all agree that it is a good thing that after much confusion and potential interference the parties concerned are a step closer to having the matter heard in front of their peers. Or are we?

Surely any subsequent sanction against Milne as a result of the charges laid should be seen purely as a means whereby certain brands can suffer the least damage. Morals are not coming into this equation, because if they did, Milne would be free to play this weekend. Apart from showing up to a committal hearing to see if he is to be tried, essentially, Milnes' life should be able to proceed as normal under the justice system we all enjoy, for better or for worse.

We have a Police force that completely botched the first investigation into this matter, now claiming authority over the same matter nine years later as if to demonstrate something has actually changed in their governance and understanding of moral culpability. Are we all actually satisfied, that irrespective of the innuendo towards failings of the original investigative team and subsequent alleged interference that we've got it right this time around?*

Spare me. I'd hate to be stood down from what I love doing on the basis of an organisations determination that they effed up last time, but they sure as shit got it right this time.**


*I appreciate there are some boys in blue on this board, no offence is intended to them or the work they do
**I don't like Milne.

[LostDoggy]

It is a very, very, VERY serious allegation.


No, I don't think so. The hysteria over this, when he hasn't been found guilty of anything, is ridiculous.

I see nothing wrong with standing him down on pay until the matter is resolved. You can't have an alleged* rapist representing your brand.

* I'm strongly on the “he's innocent until proven guilty” side, just think the allegation is enough to stand him down. I'll be surprised if he is found guilty. Heck, I'll be surprised if it gets to trial**. But until it's resolved, St Kilda are doing the right thing by the club, and the right thing by Milne.

** These are my personal opinions***

*** I don't think we really need to have disclaimers on every post. If you find yourself on jury duty for this one, guys, then remove yourself from the discussion. I think we should be allowed to discuss something that is in the public domain, as long as we don't go potting him for it before his time.

[lemmon]

The way I interpreted what came out of the club was that he was stood down as much for his own sake and mental well being as any other reason...whether we take that at face value I don't know

[Topdog]

He should be stood down until the case is resolved. Can't have an alleged racist representing your brand on the ground. If he is innocent than it may be harsh that he is not allowed to play but when you are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year you have certain obligations. Numero uno is to keep yourself out of trouble

[boydogs]

He should be stood down until the case is resolved. Can't have an alleged racist representing your brand on the ground.

I tend to agree, which is why the case should be heard immediately.

[LostDoggy]

I tend to agree, which is why the case should be heard immediately.

He'll likely have to wait for a court date like everybody else.

[westdog54]

It should be noted the 2IC of VicPol today stated it should be recognised the investigation was conducted poorly on many levels, including the input of the original investigators.


Just on that, in the last 3 years or so VicPol has completely changed the structure of the Sexual Offences investigators. Its run a hell of a lot better now.

[boydogs]

He'll likely have to wait for a court date like everybody else.

Which is a complete farce. Criminals walking the streets, innocent people with a black mark on their names.

[westdog54]

Which is a complete farce. Criminals walking the streets, innocent people with a black mark on their names.

Simplistic in the extreme.

[LostDoggy]

He should be stood down until the case is resolved. Can't have an alleged racist representing your brand on the ground. If he is innocent than it may be harsh that he is not allowed to play but when you are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year you have certain obligations. Numero uno is to keep yourself out of trouble

I am surprised a lot of posts are questioning the StKilda stand down decision?
I just assumed how the Saints have handled Milne is protocol? I work for a big company and it is procedure to be stood down (with pay) while a severe investigation is being carried out.

[Doc26]

A hypothetical if not rhetorical question, but what would the league's stance be of a player convicted and sentenced of such charge returning to play post his incarceration ? Would they hold the view that he's done his time and is free to play or that he is never to return as is a blight on the code ?

[soupman]

A hypothetical if not rhetorical question, but what would the league's stance be of a player convicted and sentenced of such charge returning to play post his incarceration ? Would they hold the view that he's done his time and is free to play or that he is never to return as is a blight on the code ?

Andrew Krakouer of Richmond and Collingwood fame was in jail for a few years I believe.

I think the AFL would spin it as a success. Turning young mens lives around through football, that sort of thing. Milne if he is convicted however is a much higher profile player and accused of a very serious crime so it would be a much harder sell (will be too old to return anyway)

[boydogs]

Simplistic in the extreme.

Tell me you don't get frustrated with the time these things take.

[LostDoggy]

Which is a complete farce. Criminals walking the streets, innocent people with a black mark on their names.


Tell me you don't get frustrated with the time these things take.

So they should delay other cases, many of which would be as serious or more than Milne's, because he's a footballer? And when they don't, it's a “farce”? Perhaps I misunderstand you, but that sounds ludicrous to me.

Stephen Milne, in the eyes of the law, is Stephen Milne. That's it. They shouldn't (and probably don't) give a toss about his celebrity profile.

[boydogs]

So they should delay other cases, many of which would be as serious or more than Milne's, because he's a footballer? And when they don't, it's a “farce”? Perhaps I misunderstand you, but that sounds ludicrous to me.

Nobody should have a rape charge hanging over their head for more than a week.

[Greystache]

Nobody should have a rape charge hanging over their head for more than a week.

So the prosecution and defence lawyers should have one week to prepare a case? And a judge the same to read through all the facts of a case before the trial starts? That's completely unrealistic.

I don't think you understand the amount or the complexity of information that goes into a court trial.

[LostDoggy]

Even if he isn't guilty, he'll undeservedly have a black mark next to his name in the eyes of many people.
He basically has for the last 9 years anyway.

[boydogs]

So the prosecution and defence lawyers should have one week to prepare a case? And a judge the same to read through all the facts of a case before the trial starts? That's completely unrealistic.

I don't think you understand the amount or the complexity of information that goes into a court trial.

This is getting off topic, but the legal process is in dire need of simplification. Delays before a case is heard and cases being decided by who runs out of money to appeal first isn't my idea of justice.

[LostDoggy]

This is getting off topic, but the legal process is in dire need of simplification. Delays before a case is heard and cases being decided by who runs out of money to appeal first isn't my idea of justice.

I'm no lawyer, but my partner is a criminal barrister, mostly doing prosecution work, and I can tell you, it's a shitload of work. She brings home folders with two reams of paper to read through, is working all hours of the night, and isn't nearly senior enough to be handling rape and murder charges on a regular basis (although she has done a few).

Her last rape case took her an entire month to put together the evidence, and from recollection she lost it.

Rape is a very difficult crime to convict on, and is an incredibly complex issue in itself. You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no consent. In our society, there is always a reasonable doubt in the minds of juries.

[bulldogtragic]

This is getting off topic, but the legal process is in dire need of simplification. Delays before a case is heard and cases being decided by who runs out of money to appeal first isn't my idea of justice.
I think we should go back to ye olde times. That is, if Milne weighs the same as a duck he's a rapist. Easier to burn him at the stake then.

[bornadog]

rape charges dropped but


Former St Kilda footballer Stephen Milne has formally had three rape charges discontinued.But Milne has pleaded guilty to one count of indecent assault, an offence that carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/rape-charges-against-stephen-milne-to-be-discontinued-20141106-11hmf5.html#ixzz3IFhQL8O3

[Happy Days]

"I kept saying no, but he kept putting it in"

That is horrible. This is all horrible.

I bet Milne has never been more grateful to have been good at footy. Disgusting.

Almost as disgusting as the hot takes and victim blaming discourse a lot of the media and virtually all of the general public has taken up pretty much since it happened. Does Malthouse get his fine money back now?

[Murphy'sLore]

Anna Krien's Night Games is an excellent discussion of the intersections between sport, masculinity, sex and power. She talks about the Milne incident in some detail. Well worth a read. It's just been shortlisted for a UK sports writing prize, not the usual subject matter I wouldn't think.

[bornadog]

"I kept saying no, but he kept putting it in"

That is horrible. This is all horrible.

I bet Milne has never been more grateful to have been good at footy. Disgusting.

Almost as disgusting as the hot takes and victim blaming discourse a lot of the media and virtually all of the general public has taken up pretty much since it happened. Does Malthouse get his fine money back now?

Couldn't agree more.

I wrote this some time ago on WOOF.

Back some 10 years ago, I was on a plane returning from Sydney on a Sunday morning and the Saints players were also boarding after playing Sydney the previous night. A Saints player who shall remain nameless, talking to another about a girl. Basically it was about his sexual exploitations, which I believe were not above board. The other player said, what are you going to do about it, and he said pay her $5k to keep her mouth shut.

There are some weird cultural issues down there.

[Remi Moses]

Interesting the news service went with " Milne's rape case dropped"
And the almost afterthought of " pleaded guilty" to indecent assault
What a grubby little s*** he is

[Sedat]

Does Malthouse get his fine money back now?
He needed to call him a "f***ing indecent assaulter" if he wanted his money back.

[The Underdog]

Anna Krien's Night Games is an excellent discussion of the intersections between sport, masculinity, sex and power. She talks about the Milne incident in some detail. Well worth a read. It's just been shortlisted for a UK sports writing prize, not the usual subject matter I wouldn't think.

Yeah I agree. Certainly food for thought and points to a massive need for culture change in the attitude to women across men's sports.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah I agree. Certainly food for thought and points to a massive need for culture change in the attitude to women across men's sports.

Across mens pursuits of all kinds. Women too. Society as a whole.

[Daughter of the West]

Anna Krien's Night Games is an excellent discussion of the intersections between sport, masculinity, sex and power. She talks about the Milne incident in some detail. Well worth a read. It's just been shortlisted for a UK sports writing prize, not the usual subject matter I wouldn't think.

That was a fantastic discussion, but the subject matter made it such a hard read. I read it last Christmas and I think I'll need to revisit it at some point - I don't think it all sunk in at the first time. Anna Krien was also consulted by Brendan Cowell when he was writing the play "The Sublime" for the MTC, which again was excellent but really difficult to watch at times. It's all just horrible stuff.

[LostDoggy]

Can't wait for boof head Spider Everitt to come rushing to downplay this abhorrent behavior with his cup of cocoa defence!

[mjp]

I read it (night games) last night after seeing ML's post. My god. That is about all I can say.

[Murphy'sLore]

It is pretty confronting stuff. Should be compulsory reading for all new recruits, in my opinion.

[The bulldog tragician]

"Night games" is excruciating, but as Murphy's Lore said, would be real food for thought for young guys who come into the footy system and are suddenly confronted with all these issues.

How telling that Riewoldt was there to offer character evidence for 'great bloke' Milney. Where is the leadership at that club? rotten to the core.

[Ghost Dog]

So Mick should have shouted 'Indecent Assultist!!!!' Instead. Not quite the same ring or sting to it somehow.

[Ghost Dog]

Couldn't agree more.

I wrote this some time ago on WOOF.

Back some 10 years ago, I was on a plane returning from Sydney on a Sunday morning and the Saints players were also boarding after playing Sydney the previous night. A Saints player who shall remain nameless, talking to another about a girl. Basically it was about his sexual exploitations, which I believe were not above board. The other player said, what are you going to do about it, and he said pay her $5k to keep her mouth shut.

There are some weird cultural issues down there.

And this is indeed the sort of thing a Saints player would bandy about on a plane full of strangers. Smart boy!

[Remi Moses]

Pretty poor form to see a captain of a football club supporting an ex player who pleaded guilty to indecent assault .

[jeemak]

The level of cover up and subterfuge in the multiple St Kilda cases at both Executive AFL and club leve is greatly disturbing.

Police issues will always be there, clubs and the AFL need to do everything they can to enforce separation from them.

[Jeanette54]

I think we should go back to ye olde times. That is, if Milne weighs the same as a duck he's a rapist. Easier to burn him at the stake then.

Are you saying you want our legal system to work like the match review panel ????????????

[westdog54]

Pretty poor form to see a captain of a football club supporting an ex player who pleaded guilty to indecent assault .

Not to mention that he wrote to coterie groups to raise money for legal fees.