Crameri Waits Til End of Season

[The Doctor]

We have apparantly tabled a better and longer offer!!

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-08/crameri-sitting-tight-for-now

[bulldogtragic]

By my ignorance, it would have to be $2.2m over 4 years, at minimum. Pricey.

[jeemak]

By my ignorance, it would have to be $2.2m over 4 years, at minimum. Pricey.

When the best forwards in the game are commanding upwards of $800K you'd think the next rung would have to be around the $600K mark, wouldn't you?

[Mofra]

When the best forwards in the game are commanding upwards of $800K you'd think the next rung would have to be around the $600K mark, wouldn't you?
3 x leading goalkicker at his club, definately worth much more than the AFL average (~$300k pa)

I actually think Jack Riewoldt at $800k is better value... but we have a truckload of cap space and are looking for a forwardline. The next hurdle (if he agrees) is a suitable trad e- Essendon are not exactly fantastic to trade with

[bulldogtragic]

When the best forwards in the game are commanding upwards of $800K you'd think the next rung would have to be around the $600K mark, wouldn't you?
Probably. But this is a Generational decision. There are no big FF's this year for $800k. But there might be in the next three years. If we commit $600k to Crameri for 4 years, that rules us out of having the cash to get a $800k FF.

So I guess it's a question of dealing in the now and what we know, or, holding out. Bird in the hand stuff.

[bornadog]

He is shorter than Stringer, will be 25 at the end of this week. His great goal kicking totals, 34, 32 and 28 this year. Averages 5 marks and 14 disposals a game. (same as Grant)

No thanks, does not look like a power forward to me.

[Ozza]

By my ignorance, it would have to be $2.2m over 4 years, at minimum. Pricey.

Where does the 2.2m over 4 come from? I haven't read anything other than the link in the OP - but if Essendon are offering 2 years - then who is saying we are offering 4?

I'm not as fussed with the money - seems we have plenty of room, and players in the market for a trade inevitably end up overpaid - but 4 years is too long a commitment.

[bulldogtragic]

Where does the 2.2m over 4 come from? I haven't read anything other than the link in the OP - but if Essendon are offering 2 years - then who is saying we are offering 4?

I'm not as fussed with the money - seems we have plenty of room, and players in the market for a trade inevitably end up overpaid - but 4 years is too long a commitment.
I recall $500,000 a year, three years for some reason. Will look for old article now.

EDIT: Herald Sun reported our (old) offer was $450,000 and three years two months ago, but it was probably not going to get the deal done. Callum Twomey suggested he could get $1.8m over 4 years in his opinion. So my assumption, is 4 years and $500-$550,000 to get him.

[Sedat]

I don't mind him as a player but not at the coin proposed. He's an upgrade on Dickson but won't become the key forward panacea in our forward line. I think we have a couple of 25-30 goal a season mid-sized types in our forward line already (namely Dickson and Grant), not to mention Stringer who also fits that mid-sized mould. I'd personally not go through with that offer. By all means make sure Essendon have to pony up more cash to hold onto him.

[Ozza]

He is shorter than Stringer, will be 25 at the end of this week. His great goal kicking totals, 34, 32 and 28 this year. Averages 5 marks and 14 disposals a game. (same as Grant)

No thanks, does not look like a power forward to me.

I just checked his stats also. He is older than I thought he was.

I'm not completely against it....but I really hope we aren't going big money & very long term for him.

[Rance Fan]

Im not a fan,
the games Ive seen him play he only looked average.
Not a great attitude portrayed either.
Hope we don't get him..he won't be the answer!

[bulldogtragic]

I just checked his stats also. He is older than I thought he was.

I'm not completely against it....but I really hope we aren't going big money & very long term for him.
Herald Sun 2 months ago said Essendon offering $1.15-ish over 3 years. So we'd need to be a fair bit more.

Not worth it. Not what we need. IMO.

[JohnGentStand]

I think he is well worth it. A better player than Gumby or Jesse White. Good hands, good speed, good kick. Not the messiah but a very handy boy.

[Mofra]

He is shorter than Stringer, will be 25 at the end of this week. His great goal kicking totals, 34, 32 and 28 this year. Averages 5 marks and 14 disposals a game. (same as Grant)

No thanks, does not look like a power forward to me.
Of course not - he's a hard leading high forward that would allow Jones to play closer to goal, his preferred position. His net effect on structure would be fantastic.

He is a gun pure and simple - only issue is what it would cost at the trade table.

[LostDoggy]

Seems to have perpetual lower leg problems, or am i imagining that?

[Remi Moses]

If you want a power forward you pay 800.
You want a hit up target you pay 400 to 500.
They're becoming a vital cog in a forward line, and we need options up front not just one power forward.
Or alternatively you make a gutsy tough call and trade for the number 1 pick.

[Ozza]

Herald Sun 2 months ago said Essendon offering $1.15-ish over 3 years. So we'd need to be a fair bit more.

Not worth it. Not what we need. IMO.

Ok. So at least 4 years - 550K a season doesn't look to be the necessary terms. That would be way too high a price.

[Ozza]

Seems to have perpetual lower leg problems, or am i imagining that?

Not sure. In the last 3 years he has played;

20 out of 22
18 out of 22
13 out of 16.

Not sure how many missed games were injury related.

I do think that we need his type more than we need a power forward monster. We need to be quicker in the forward line, not slower. And Crameri is both quick and strong.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Seems to have perpetual lower leg problems, or am i imagining that?

He has certainly had troubles with his legs, even when fit.

I think he is a quality player and if we already had a big KPF, I'd be even more inclined to go after him. He's an absolutely perfect "second foil" -- he plays taller than he is (ie. Stringer) and would really compliment a Hawkins/Roughead/J-Riewoldt type.

However, as the main man at a hefty price tag? Not sure it's worth it. I'd rather re-visit what it'll take to get Pick #1 and/or settle for White/Gumbleton.

Another idea could be to target a key defender, allowing Roughy to play FF. Brown and Pears are two that spring to mind.

[bulldogtragic]

He has certainly had troubles with his legs, even when fit.

I think he is a quality player and if we already had a big KPF, I'd be even more inclined to go after him. He's an absolutely perfect "second foil" -- he plays taller than he is (ie. Stringer) and would really compliment a Hawkins/Roughead/J-Riewoldt type.

However, as the main man at a hefty price tag? Not sure it's worth it. I'd rather re-visit what it'll take to get Pick #1 and/or settle for White/Gumbleton.

Another idea could be to target a key defender, allowing Roughy to play FF. Brown and Pears are two that spring to mind.
When I learn to use my words better, I will write things like this.

Exactly.

[chef]

I think he is well worth it. A better player than Gumby or Jesse White. Good hands, good speed, good kick. Not the messiah but a very handy boy.

This.

If we are going after a KPF I would rather it be him than the other two.

[Mofra]

I do think that we need his type more than we need a power forward monster. We need to be quicker in the forward line, not slower. And Crameri is both quick and strong.
That's the rub - he's too quick for most defenders strong enough to go with him, and he's too strong for the defenders quick enough to go with him - on the rare occasions a defender is both, Crameri also has a decent tank.

Grant, Crameri & Stringer - between all three there will be at least one (if not, two) mismatches in height/speed every game. That's before we consider any continued improvement from Jones, and I really do hope he can become that 1.5 goal per game + "get out clause" tall we need.

[Remi Moses]

I'd rather take the Crameri option or the first pick Tom Boyd option.
Definite no to the cheap option of Gumbleton or White, as you end up just as frustrated as ever.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I'd rather take the Crameri option or the first pick Tom Boyd option.
Definite no to the cheap option of Gumbleton or White, as you end up just as frustrated as ever.

I think we are under rating Jesse White who on recent form has looked a lot better than Crameri or Gumbleton. Crameri's form has been indifferent and in fact has had a poor season. At $450,000 per season we would be paying well over the odds.

[LostDoggy]

What would you pay for Jesse White then NBP?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

What would you pay for Jesse White then NBP?

Given the talent in the SS you may find that White isn't on big money particularly when you consider the choice they have of big forwards Tippett Pyke Reid and Goodes when they are all fit and available. I would rate White in front of both Jones and Stringer at the moment and give us a big forward that we still desperately need. Crameri looks more of a flanker to me rather than a key forward.

[LostDoggy]

Agree that he wouldn't be on good money as he's literally played about 5 good games in his career thus far. They do play different roles and are totally incomparable in bodysize and shape. I don't he'd be too short of that 400-450 figure though if he moved on given he can command multiple clubs to bargain for him.

At our stage of development I'd prefer Crameri out of the two. A fast moving tall across the flanks as a foil for Stringer and Jones would be more beneficial to our gameplan. Crameri has been more consistent over his career also, given his poor season so far.

Prefer to look to next year for a Patrick McCartin draftee to fill the tall KP full forward.

[LostDoggy]

White's comparable to Jarrad Grant, in that his career seemed to be over until he came back a few weeks ago. I wouldn't be willing to pay overs for him and not expecting other clubs to pay a lot for jarrad grant.

[Remi Moses]

Jesse White has played a month of good footy and he'd be out if Reid, Goodes or LRT were available.
You put Jones in that side and he'd be a better player than White.
Gumbleton is hopeless below his knees and I wouldn't entertain getting him.
We tried to get a similar type( not as good) in Bate a few years back and I'm sure multiple options are what we're looking for.

[Remi Moses]

I think we are under rating Jesse White who on recent form has looked a lot better than Crameri or Gumbleton. Crameri's form has been indifferent and in fact has had a poor season. At $450,000 per season we would be paying well over the odds.

Crameri's been average ( injury issues as well) but White's been awful until the last month.
He was the steak knives in the Tippett deal and yet Adelaide said no.I'd be treading very wearily on Jesse White.

[jeemak]

That's the rub - he's too quick for most defenders strong enough to go with him, and he's too strong for the defenders quick enough to go with him - on the rare occasions a defender is both, Crameri also has a decent tank.

Grant, Crameri & Stringer - between all three there will be at least one (if not, two) mismatches in height/speed every game. That's before we consider any continued improvement from Jones, and I really do hope he can become that 1.5 goal per game + "get out clause" tall we need.


I'd rather take the Crameri option or the first pick Tom Boyd option.
Definite no to the cheap option of Gumbleton or White, as you end up just as frustrated as ever.

I'm not cool with the trade out good players or low draft picks for a chance at a gun KPF in the draft line of thinking. I think the approach of filling the list with a broad range of high quality players is the way to do it.

I also think Stringer will end up playing a lot of midfield footy after a few preseasons anyway.

[Remi Moses]

It's probably not going to occur ( the Boyd scenario) but I agree we need options up forward.
We could play Murph in that hit up role but he's 30
and playing well off half back. The club tried for Bate to play that role ( thankfully it didn't happen)

[kruder]

What would we have to give up? Or is he a free agent?

[bornadog]

It's probably not going to occur ( the Boyd scenario) but I agree we need options up forward.
We could play Murph in that hit up role but he's 30
and playing well off half back. The club tried for Bate to play that role ( thankfully it didn't happen)

Macca has talked about a strong bodied forward to help out our young talls. He is on the look out for someone around that 24/25 year old with a good strong body. That will be on top of any young tall that may come our way in the ND.

[Dry Rot]

Jesse White has played a month of good footy and he'd be out if Reid, Goodes or LRT were available.


IIRC the Swans tall forwards in the finals last year were LRT, Reid and Goodes. Last weekend they were Tippett, White and the resting ruckman.

IMO this new formula is working darn well for them, and they would want to change it at their peril. It seems to have its own chemistry, and it works.

LRT has missed too much footy to come back. And if available, there has been talk of playing Goodes and/or Reid in the backline.

Having said all that, I'm not supporting getting White here.

[Remi Moses]

The only player that will come back this season will probably be Goodes.
So White's going to get a good run at it.
Next season will be interesting, as Reid will play forward regardless of what Sydney are saying.

[Varangian]

As others have suggested Crameri fits our needs profile. He's 25, big, strong and quick with a big tank. He's also a smart footballer and pretty good at ground level.

Crameri, Grant and Stringer inside F50 will be a real nightmare for opposition backs, even next year and if Jones continues to develop we have options on the lead, one on one and in the air.

An excellent balance if you throw in another smart player like Higgins and a good crumber like Dahl.

[azabob]

As others have suggested Crameri fits our needs profile. He's 25, big, strong and quick with a big tank. He's also a smart footballer and pretty good at ground level.

Crameri, Grant and Stringer inside F50 will be a real nightmare for opposition backs, even next year and if Jones continues to develop we have options on the lead, one on one and in the air.

An excellent balance if you throw in another smart player like Higgins and a good crumber like Dahl.

Add Hunter to the mix, which would allow Dahlhaus to push into the midfield.

[Remi Moses]

Can't understand the logic of recruiting key forwards who are not in the best 22 of other clubs.
Haven't we been down that road before ??
I do not understand the logic. The media keep banging on about a big key forward, but we need options up there and Crameri would be good value for us.

[Remi Moses]

As others have suggested Crameri fits our needs profile. He's 25, big, strong and quick with a big tank. He's also a smart footballer and pretty good at ground level.

Crameri, Grant and Stringer inside F50 will be a real nightmare for opposition backs, even next year and if Jones continues to develop we have options on the lead, one on one and in the air.

An excellent balance if you throw in another smart player like Higgins and a good crumber like Dahl.

Agree, we either go down this path or we use the draft.

[Dry Rot]

What are you willing to give up for Crameri? I don't think our second round pick will do the job

[comrade]

What are you willing to give up for Crameri? I don't think our second round pick will do the job

What if the Bombers have no draft picks at all?

Maybe they'll be happy just to participate.

[Remi Moses]

What if the Bombers have no draft picks at all?

Maybe they'll be happy just to participate.

Thinking the same thing.
Could need to get into the draft, if they get banned .
Teams aren't going to allow their gun key forwards to be swayed by other teams .
I think the draft is the best place to get a key forward personally.
Getting the fringe player will just exasperate the problem and just add to the litany of failures we picked up.

[Ghost Dog]

Would not touch any Essendon player with a barge pole for another year.

[firstdogonthemoon]

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned the Gia factor. Who is going to replace him as the most handsome man in the AFL? Higgins is injured too often, and we are going to need someone very attractive to match Gia's standard. This Crameri bloke seems nice but he has a small mousey sort of face - not worth the risk IMHO.

I don't want us to be sending out a bunch of fugglies every week.

[ratsmac]

Can't understand the logic of recruiting key forwards who are not in the best 22 of other clubs.
Haven't we been down that road before ??
I do not understand the logic. The media keep banging on about a big key forward, but we need options up there and Crameri would be good value for us.

This is correct.

Would White get a game in any teams best 22 in the AFL? Maybe/probably not

Would Gumbleton get a game in any teams best 22 in the AFL? NO

Would Crameri get a game in any teams best 22 in the AFL? I'd say yes

This is your answer IMO.

[Remi Moses]

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned the Gia factor. Who is going to replace him as the most handsome man in the AFL? Higgins is injured too often, and we are going to need someone very attractive to match Gia's standard. This Crameri bloke seems nice but he has a small mousey sort of face - not worth the risk IMHO.

I don't want us to be sending out a bunch of fugglies every week.

I think J Grant has filled the void of Bulldog pin up :)

[LongWait]

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned the Gia factor. Who is going to replace him as the most handsome man in the AFL? Higgins is injured too often, and we are going to need someone very attractive to match Gia's standard. This Crameri bloke seems nice but he has a small mousey sort of face - not worth the risk IMHO.

I don't want us to be sending out a bunch of fugglies every week.

The girls and a goodly number of the boys quite fancy Daisy Thomas - and he has an attractive name - we should try to get him instead of Crameri.

[bornadog]

The girls and a goodly number of the boys quite fancy Daisy Thomas - and he has an attractive name - we should try to get him instead of Crameri.

but Daisy is ugly:D

[stefoid]

If there is no super-duper power forward on offer, he would be the next best available - no doubt he would improve the side.

Stringer, Grant, Jones and Crameri would be an interesting proposition for the opposition to deal with.

[azabob]

If there is no super-duper power forward on offer, he would be the next best available - no doubt he would improve the side.

Stringer, Grant, Jones and Crameri would be an interesting proposition for the opposition to deal with.

Does Crameri push Campbell or Dickson out?

[stefoid]

Does Crameri push Campbell or Dickson out?

Add Guido and Addison to that list - take your pick.

[Bulldog4life]

Crameri would have been impressed with our side today.:) I like him as a player. Hope we get him.

[Remi Moses]

Crameri would have been impressed with our side today.:) I like him as a player. Hope we get him.


Tonight I noticed on numerous occasions we had the ball on half back and cried out for the lead up target. He'd be valuable for us.
No disrespect to Dylan Addison ( love his effort) but he isn't the player for the job

[Doc26]

Does Crameri push Campbell or Dickson out?

Doesn't push Campbell out. For some perspective, Crameri is the identical height and weight to Jobe Watson.

[Bulldog4life]

Tonight I noticed on numerous occasions we had the ball on half back and cried out for the lead up target. He'd be valuable for us.
No disrespect to Dylan Addison ( love his effort) but he isn't the player for the job

Spot on Remi.

[LostDoggy]

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned the Gia factor. Who is going to replace him as the most handsome man in the AFL? Higgins is injured too often, and we are going to need someone very attractive to match Gia's standard. This Crameri bloke seems nice but he has a small mousey sort of face - not worth the risk IMHO.

I don't want us to be sending out a bunch of fugglies every week.

My partner tells me this is well covered by Talia and Stringer.

[w3design]

Does Crameri push Campbell or Dickson out?

Maybe Dickson not Campbell

[Varangian]

Does Crameri push Campbell or Dickson out?

Anyone other than Grant or Stringer. We will name our forward line players around these two on a needs must basis.

[Remi Moses]

Everyone talks up a power forward,and ideally we need one.
But it's near on mission impossible to get one from another club( Quality proven Power forward)
The Draft 's the most viable and smart option

[KT31]

Everyone talks up a power forward,and ideally we need one.
But it's near on mission impossible to get one from another club( Quality proven Power forward)
The Draft 's the most viable and smart option

Swans always seem to manage to get one, but that's getting back to the equality debate.
Agree it will be near on impossible for us to poach one, but no harm in trying.
Draft is after the trade period so if we fail we can always fall back to the draft.

[Mofra]

Swans always seem to manage to get one, but that's getting back to the equality debate.
Agree it will be near on impossible for us to poach one, but no harm in trying.
Draft is after the trade period so if we fail we can always fall back to the draft.
We'll need both - talls take a number of years to come good. If we can get someone decent this year like Crameri, we can take a kid this year or next year (supposedly a good crop of young talls) and give him a proper development.

I do expect some improvement from Jones next year - his trajectory seems fairly well set

[Remi Moses]

Swans always seem to manage to get one, but that's getting back to the equality debate.
Agree it will be near on impossible for us to poach one, but no harm in trying.
Draft is after the trade period so if we fail we can always fall back to the draft.

An extra 900 gorillas would be nice!!

[KT31]

An extra 900 gorillas would be nice!!

Just one more Big Will would be great.:D

[Sedat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/players-still-in-asada-sights-20130811-2rq9t.html

Does anybody still want Crameri (or Gumby for that matter)?

"According to a source close to ASADA's investigation, ''there will be several footballers in both codes taken to their tribunals''.

Soft sanctions would be appealed by WADA, who must maintain consistency with punishments in other sports and countries, including the stripping of a gold medal won by a 16-year-old Bulgarian gymnast at the Sydney Olympics who tested positive to a banned substance given by her coach, despite her belief it was not prohibited."

[KT31]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/players-still-in-asada-sights-20130811-2rq9t.html

Does anybody still want Crameri (or Gumby for that matter)?

"According to a source close to ASADA's investigation, ''there will be several footballers in both codes taken to their tribunals''.

Soft sanctions would be appealed by WADA, who must maintain consistency with punishments in other sports and countries, including the stripping of a gold medal won by a 16-year-old Bulgarian gymnast at the Sydney Olympics who tested positive to a banned substance given by her coach, despite her belief it was not prohibited."

If they take candy from a baby, I'm not sure any defence or arguing is going to save the Essendon players.
The Don's must be quite, and rightly so, worried about their future now.