Lance Franklin

[Eastdog]

Will most likely not get him but is he worth pursing. What are people's thoughts?

[AndrewP6]

No, as we won't get him.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Im told that he has a contract already and is heading North....Very good source.

[Eastdog]

Im told that he has a contract already and is heading North....Very good source.

What source is that BB.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

A friend of a Friends Mate that had a sister that knew his sisters boyfriend.

No it was an ex footballer that had the same manager and sprung him in NSW around Easter.

[W W Biscuit]

A friend of a Friends Mate that had a sister that knew his sisters boyfriend.

No it was an ex footballer that had the same manager and sprung him in NSW around Easter.

Cliff from Clematis, by any chance?

[azabob]

The worst thing about when Franklin walks is that they will get a first round compo pick at least, still be in a position to win the grand final in the next few years, while rebuilding for their next tilt.

List management is so important, it's not funny. Hawks were very savvy when Clarko came on board.

[ledge]

The worst thing about when Franklin walks is that they will get a first round compo pick at least, still be in a position to win the grand final in the next few years, while rebuilding for their next tilt.

List management is so important, it's not funny. Hawks were very savvy when Clarko came on board.

You think so ? I think they are very much like us and 2 years time will be down the bottom they have an ageing list and recruited older players to win the flag like we did 3 to 4 years ago.

[Topdog]

They have 5 players over 30, 4 of those are first 22 players.
4 players are 29 and all of them are best 22.
2 are 27.

So they will probably lose 9 first 22 players in the next 3 years (including Franklin here).

To me they don't look like a side that will drop down like we did. If they can work out a trade for Franklin then they will be in a great position.

[ledge]

It's hard to replace those players though, they aren't average players in the old age bracket they are the stars of the side.

[Topdog]

Well older players are usually going to be the stars.

Hale should be easy enough to replace but losing Gibson and Lake in defence will hurt.
Hodge and Mitchell both gone too.

[w3design]

You think so ? I think they are very much like us and 2 years time will be down the bottom they have an ageing list and recruited older players to win the flag like we did 3 to 4 years ago.

Their ressi's had a pretty fair year !! So likely there are some pretty good youngsters waiting in the background.
They also have the money, and the pulling power to continue topping up with good mature players as they have been doing for some years.

While they may not win flag after flag going forward, I think they will be a little like Sydney and Geelong, and only drop within the 8 rather than down to ladder bottom over coming seasons.

[ledge]

Geelong did it with grooming their own and created a dynasty, the exact plan we are going into in 2 to 3 years, Hawks and Sydney seemed to do the recruit players from other clubs more, which I believe brings a shorter premiership window.
But in saying that both can be successful if done right.

[LostDoggy]

Their ressi's had a pretty fair year !! So likely there are some pretty good youngsters waiting in the background.
They also have the money, and the pulling power to continue topping up with good mature players as they have been doing for some years.

While they may not win flag after flag going forward, I think they will be a little like Sydney and Geelong, and only drop within the 8 rather than down to ladder bottom over coming seasons.

Never know. A year is a millennium in football.

[bornadog]

Sydney has made a bid to steal Lance Franklin at the last minute (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-has-made-a-bid-to-steal-lance-franklin-at-the-last-minute/story-fn69a32t-1226730250653)

News Limited can reveal that the move, which will stun the AFL world and enrage Melbourne clubs, involves a five-year, $1.4m per season to lure Franklin to the 2012 premiers.

Franklin won his second premiership with the Hawks on Saturday but the superstar’s transfer to the AFL’s newest franchise, GWS, has been widely reported as a certainty all season.

The Hawks have cobbled together $1.1m a year to entice the goalkicking sensation to stay. and while the Swans’ 11th hour offer is left in the shade by the Giants’ $2m a season deal, there are a host of reasons that could win over Franklin.

* Franklin’s close mate, Wallaby Kurtley Beale, has returned to Sydney to play Super Rugby for the Waratahs, who train at Allianz Stadium, next door to the SCG;

[azabob]

If this happens, where does it leave Sam Reid?

[mighty_west]

if this happens, where does it leave sam reid?

chb.

[dog town]

Matt White suggested on twitter that Mumford go to Hawthorn, Franklin to Sydney and Reid to the Bulldogs. I think it was his own creation and not something he had heard.

[bulldogtragic]

Matt White suggested on twitter that Mumford go to Hawthorn, Franklin to Sydney and Reid to the Bulldogs. I think it was his own creation and not something he had heard.
Don't want to trade for Reid, he his so close of a Jones clone it's not funny. And Jones is better. Free, yes. Trade, no.

[The Coon Dog]

GWS have withdrawn their offer to Buddy based on advice that he'll accept an offer from the Swans!

[bulldogtragic]

BS, living allowance!

No Patton therefore.

[always right]

GWS have withdrawn their offer to Buddy based on advice that he'll accept an offer from the Swans!

Welcome back Coondog. Huge news and a huge blow to GWS. End of Patton coming to us ...if that was ever true.

[bulldogtragic]

The Sydney offer is $100,000 a year AFTER TAX more than Hawks.

My wife is Hawthorn and is not happy. Was happy with him going for massive $$$ to GWS.

[Mofra]

Jeez GWS must have a massive kitty with which to make offers now given they would have been banking on a superstar or two coming in this year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Amazing! Cannot believe the BS allowance sydney get but am very surprised Buddy has gone to sydney for not much extra than what he would have got at Hawks!?

[LostDog]

The Sydney Swans are the Miami Heat of the AFL

[LostDoggy]

This is complete and utter *!*!*!*!ing bullshit if true. The AFL must immediately withdraw the cost of living allowance. It wasn’t designed to be stockpiled to use as extended salary cap FFS !

2 of the top 6 or 7 KP forwards in the game in two years after being premiers and preliminary finalists !! JFC !

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Think GWS are pissed off to the extreme. Why they have jumped the gun and posted on twitter

[bulldogsthru&thru]

The Sydney Swans are the Miami Heat of the AFL

"Im taking my talents to Bondi Beach"

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There is going to be a massive outrage if this is true. Kurt Tippett was the beginning but this will take the cost of living allowance debate to a whole new level

[Twodogs]

GWS have withdrawn their offer to Buddy based on advice that he'll accept an offer from the Swans!


What a farce the salary cap is.

[bulldogtragic]

What a farce the salary cap is.
I'm confused TD. Are you unhappy with our salary cap or Sydney's salary cap.

Two very different things.

[Axe Man]

If Sydney can pay 2 players +$1 Million a season each then surely many of their other players must be well underpaid. All the other clubs should target their players with offers that will far outstrip what Sydney can afford, even with their BS cost of living allowance.

[Twodogs]

I'm confused TD. Are you unhappy with our salary cap or Sydney's salary cap.

Two very different things.


Sydney's COLA is a farce.

[bulldogtragic]

Sydney's COLA is a farce.
Simple really. It's more important to win over fair weather rugby fans than give the folks who follow AFL in Western melbourne an even chance.

How else should we take it?

[The Coon Dog]

Sydney's COLA is a farce.

If the AFL were consistant, surely they say it's cheaper to live in Geelong & as such reduce their salary cap accordingly. Won't happen, but it annoys me how they continue to prop the game up in NSW!

[Maddog37]

Bud to the Swans along with Tippett strikes me as the beginning of the end for the famous Bloods culture.

[LostDoggy]

COLA or not there must be a lot of senior Sydney players being paid far less than what they could demand in the open market. Hopefully all 17 other clubs get stuck in.

[whythelongface]

Simple really. It's more important to win over fair weather rugby fans than give the folks who follow AFL in Western melbourne an even chance.

How else should we take it?

It has all to do with trying to outdo the other codes and become the most important football code in the country. All at the expense of grass roots supporters. What a frigging joke.

[ReLoad]

So its simple lets get Hanna and Reid down to the dogs where they belong.

Forget this Crameri stuff, the door is now open on the swans players.

[LostDoggy]

Hope he wins the Norm Smith at Sydney next year :)

[Greystache]

If Sydney can pay 2 players +$1 Million a season each then surely many of their other players must be well underpaid. All the other clubs should target their players with offers that will far outstrip what Sydney can afford, even with their BS cost of living allowance.

Plus they signed Reid to a 6 year deal on huge dollars when he looked like he may be the next big KPF in the AFL. They would be spending $3mil a season on 3 KPF's.

[LostDoggy]

Can't believe the words I'm typing, but Hutchy absolutely nailed this on Footy Classified the other night.

[Remi Moses]

I've just got on here and can't believe it.

[LostDoggy]

Can't believe the words I'm typing, but Hutchy absolutely nailed this on Footy Classified the other night.

And didn't Caro the All-Wise mock him for it....

[LostDoggy]

And didn't Caro the All-Wise mock him for it....

Ridiculed him! Although to be fair she probably wasn't alone there.

[LostDoggy]

Wowee, apparently the Giants had offered Franklin 1.2m a season and the Swans trumped them with a higher pay packet.

[bulldogtragic]

Wowee, apparently the Giants had offered Franklin 1.2m a season and the Swans trumped them with a higher pay packet.
I thought GWS offered $2m on 6 years. Swans $1.4m on 5 years. Hawks $1.1m on 5 years.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought GWS offered $2m on 6 years. Swans $1.4m on 5 years. Hawks $1.1m on 5 years.
My bad, you were dead on $1.2m over 6 years. I just read the full GWS statement. Which concludes Patton and Cameron will bring about on field success.

So that's that on Operation get Jon Patton.

[LostDoggy]

Wowee, apparently the Giants had offered Franklin 1.2m a season and the Swans trumped them with a higher pay packet.

They have to be shifting some players.

Bolton retired, Jesse White to go, surely Mumford now.

Still a farce as proportionately it'd be no different to any other club.

[bulldogtragic]

They have to be shifting some players.

Bolton retired, Jesse White to go, surely Mumford now.

Still a farce as proportionately it'd be know different to any other club.
Mattner and others too.

Still bullshit. Buddy is getting $1.4m. $900,000 from AFL (COLA) and $500,000 club.

So we get Crameri for $500,000 and they get Buddy.

[LostDoggy]

Still a farce as proportionately it'd be know different to any other club.

I agree, having a 9.8% larger salary cap than the rest of the competition is ridiculous when you consider how much these blokes get paid to kick a footy.

[bulldogtragic]

Vlad must be furious. This stupid GWS venture is just not working. Tasmania must be thrilled with the news.

[LostDoggy]

Terry Wallace filthy with the COLA on Trade Radio right now

[LostDoggy]

How on earth do they plan on holding onto other players when a couple of blokes are pulling in so much of the salary cap?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This makes a mockery out of the game.

[Cyberdoggie]

Sydney are stupid for doing this. There is no way non Sydney clubs will let this go over easy.

I'm not against the COLA, but the way it's being used isn't to give each players a little bit of extra money to offset the cost of living in Sydney, it's clearly to give them more salary cap room to buy big players.

The rest of the players on the list aren't seeing the benefits of this (other than playing with Tippet and Buddy).

By doing this again, they will only draw more opposition to it.

[whythelongface]

How on earth do they plan on holding onto other players when a couple of blokes are pulling in so much of the salary cap?


You would be pissed off being a Swans player knowing the pay packets that Tippett and Franklin would be on.

[bulldogtragic]

Warwick Capper has been tweeting mock pictures of him and a Buddy holding up the premiership cup in Sydney colours. I hope they get their money's worth because it's this kind of signing that should end the cola.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

HOw are they going to maintain the Sydney culture of a buddhist like commitment to each other and The Club when they are elitist in their payments and must be shortchanging the majority of their players.
The cynic in me says we don't know the full picture and there are sweetners for the rest of their players too. This is outrageous and will turn them into a despised club, like Essendon and Carlton. The league will need the Bulldogs to win a flag to restore crediblity to the competition. We could never land two trades like Tippett and Franklin let alone after winning a premiership. Hopefully Fate will now curse them.

[bulldogtragic]

Sydney will win the battle, but will lose the war.

I hope there is serious, serious fallout.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If it goes ahead clubs need to target Sydney players that suffer as a result of Franklin and Tippett payments. First one that springs to mind is Rohan.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Apparently the Buddy deal was for 9 years....

[bulldogtragic]

Apparently the Buddy deal was for 9 years....
Just read that too. 9 years.... Crazy if true....

[Eastdog]

I agree, having a 9.8% larger salary cap than the rest of the competition is ridiculous when you consider how much these blokes get paid to kick a footy.

I asked this question on a previous thread - why do Sydney get a bigger salary cap. Does it have to do with the Sydney lifestyle (weak reason) or are there other reasons.

[bulldogtragic]

I asked this question on a previous thread - why do Sydney get a bigger salary cap. Does it have to do with the Sydney lifestyle (weak reason) or are there other reasons.
Cost of living in Sydney is far too high to absorb into their massive salaries...

[LostDoggy]

Apparently the Buddy deal was for 9 years....

Probably trying to lock in the COLA for another 9 years

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Just read that too. 9 years.... Crazy if true....

That really is stupidity isnt it? 9 years? He will be 35 by then and to have that much money tied down for that long is very risky

[bulldogtragic]

That really is stupidity isnt it? 9 years? He will be 35 by then and to have that much money tied down for that long is very risky
I wonder if the AFL can block it if they think Sydney is abusing the system, I.e. Offering a contract it knows the player cannot serve out?

[Eastdog]

A 9 year contract? Haven't heard too many like that before.

[ReLoad]

Didn't Alastair Lynch have a 10 year deal? from memory it was re negotiated half way through his contract down to 7 or some such a deal.

either way its crazy talk.

Im just pissed we didnt get a sneaky shot at Patton.

[The Underdog]

Didn't Alastair Lynch have a 10 year deal? from memory it was re negotiated half way through his contract down to 7 or some such a deal.

either way its crazy talk.

Im just pissed we didnt get a sneaky shot at Patton.

He had a 10 year contract at $100,000 a year. By the time he finished $100k was bottom end of player wages. He did however miss a heap of time in the middle with chronic fatigue.

[Ozza]

He had a 10 year contract at $100,000 a year. By the time he finished $100k was bottom end of player wages. He did however miss a heap of time in the middle with chronic fatigue.

He also had his contract re-negotiated about 6 or 7 years in once the 100K wasn't worth a great deal (comparitively).

[JohnGentStand]

I am sure the 9 yr deal is just a fend-off to any club wanting to match the deal ( Hawks ). Buddy will just play on & off the field until he has had enough ( 5-6yrs) and then retire and tear up the last 3-4 yrs.
Sydney have given everyone the bird.

[DragzLS1]

Well played Sydney, well played...

[LostDoggy]

Probably trying to lock in the COLA for another 9 years

Bang on the lolly.

Colless knows the COLA won't survive long term - there are now too many clubs coming out against it. BUT; if he locks this down, the AFL will be forced to rule around it in the same way Judd's VISY deal couldn't be challenged. Unfair to retrospectively rule in a way that disadvantaged the player. It's very smart, sickeningly smart, business. Means the swans will have that extra money for their big ticket player for the next decade minimum. They will be giggling themselves silly in their boardroom.

[Eastdog]

The AFLPA is responsible for this happening. There needs to be rules on what players do in terms of trades.

[ratsmac]

Bang on the lolly.

Colless knows the COLA won't survive long term - there are now too many clubs coming out against it. BUT; if he locks this down, the AFL will be forced to rule around it in the same way Judd's VISY deal couldn't be challenged. Unfair to retrospectively rule in a way that disadvantaged the player. It's very smart, sickeningly smart, business. Means the swans will have that extra money for their big ticket player for the next decade minimum. They will be giggling themselves silly in their boardroom.

Well I think the AFL have to act before the free trade period kicks off later in the week and get rid of cola from next year onward.

[Hotdog60]

Players should have to apply each year to the AFL for the COLA. Keep the club out of the equation and leave them to work within the standard cap. That way the AFL can determine at what percentage they get due to the cost of living for that year.
Problem solved.

[Axe Man]

Players should have to apply each year to the AFL for the COLA. Keep the club out of the equation and leave them to work within the standard cap. That way the AFL can determine at what percentage they get due to the cost of living for that year.
Problem solved.

Much better idea than what we have now! That way each player can be compensated for the supposedly higher cost of living instead of it all going to 1 or 2 players which completely defeats the purpose of the entire scheme. Of course eradicating it all together would be preferable but I could handle this as a compromise.

[LostDoggy]

In 9 years his $1.1 mill will probably be what rookies are earning lol

[jazzadogs]

What is the rationale behind the 9 year duration? Mark Robinson tweeted that the money is unconditional...so even if he only plays six years he still gets paid??

For what? A coaching role, or working with their academy? Or just for looking pretty and living in Sydney?

[bulldogtragic]

Shame for Hawks that FA compo doesn't allow for top of first round or multiple picks. Goddard a 4 years on $800,000 is worth first rounder. Then Buddy should be worth 2 at least. I guess no one at the AFL thought this would happen.

[1eyedog]

That really is stupidity isnt it? 9 years? He will be 35 by then and to have that much money tied down for that long is very risky

They're are pulling out the stops to secure him for at least the next 6-7 years by paying him for 9. They REALLY want him. The last two may be in a development coach role.

[GVGjr]

AFL 360 is back on the air tonight given the the Franklin news. They should run this show though October.

[Bulldog4life]

LANCE Franklin's move to Sydney began soon after the 2012 Grand Final.

Franklin’s management contacted the Swans and said Franklin would like to play for them in 2014.

Watch a Buddy Bombshell special edition of AFL360 at 7.30pm tonight on Fox Footy

Talks were held during this season, before they were ramped up in the past eight weeks.

The announcement today that Franklin had knocked back a huge deal from GWS to join the Swans stunned the football world, including the AFL and the Giants.

The Franklin-Swans deal was known by only a handful of people.

Angry GWS officials believe Sydney's coup has all but killed off the 9.8 per cent "cost of living allowance" given to the two NSW teams.

The Twitter posting from the Giants official account stated the AFL club had withdrawn their offer "based on advice that he (Franklin) will accept an offer from the Swans".

The GIANTS have withdrawn their offer to Buddy Franklin based on advice that he will accept an offer from the Swans.
— GWS Giants (@GWS_Giants) October 1, 2013

GWS believes Sydney's offer for Franklin is a massive $1.4 million a season over five years, plus ambassadorial money yet to be determined.

But sources at the Hawks and rival clubs suggest the deal may be almost double that at $10 million over nine years.

It would be the biggest contract since Alastair Lynch signed a 10-year deal with the Brisbane Bears in 1994.

The Giants' offer was $1.2 million over six years, plus AFL extras.

Angry GWS officials believe Sydney's coup has all but killed off the 9.8 per cent "cost of living allowance" given to the two NSW teams.

Late today the Swans issued a statement confirming they will make an offer to Franklin when the free agency period opens on Friday.

"We are pleased that Lance has expressed his desire to join the Swans," the statement said.

Hawthorn also issued a statement to say it had been informed that Franklin "has decided to explore his options under free agency".

The Hawks gave a strong indication they will not try to match Sydney's offer, saying "Hawthorn Football Club will continue to apply its established list management strategy that puts the needs and interests of the club first."

GWS CEO Dave Matthews said the club had been advised today by Franklin's manager Liam Pickering that he intended to accept an offer from the Swans.

"We put forward what we believed to be both a sensible and attractive offer to Franklin. Contrary to media reports, that offer was $1.2 million a year over six years," he said.

"It appears he has a significantly higher financial offer which we would not have been prepared to make based on our due diligence. We have every confidence in our list management strategy but we cannot compromise it for the sake of one individual.

"We have been patient and shown a lot of respect through the process. This decision now allows us to pursue other options during the forthcoming trade period.

"With the right experienced players alongside the likes of Jeremy Cameron and Jonathan Patton we have every confidence we can achieve significant on field improvement in the years to come."The Herald Sun understands the Hawks superstar is poised to meet with coach Alastair Clarkson today, where it is expected he will tell him of his plans to move to Sydney.

Analysis: How can the Swans afford Buddy?

Footy's 10 biggest trade moves

It is believed Franklin has revealed plans to buy a house in the trendy Sydney suburb of Bondi.

Franklin has almost certainly played his last game for Hawthorn and has been considering multi-million dollar offers from both Sydney and GWS.

News Limited today revealed that the Sydney Swans had launched a last-minute offer to snare Franklin, with the offer believed to be in the vicinity of $7 million across five seasons.

The appointment today of Swans veteran Michael O'Loughlin to the post of head of Sydney's football academy - the position formerly held by Paul Roos - is believed to be a key to Franklin's decision.

When asked about his future this week by friends, Franklin has told them that he wants to make a lifestyle decision.

His friendship with Sydney model Jesinta Campbell could also influence his decision which is expected within the next 24 hours.

The pair are known to have been friends for some time but the relationship has developed in recent times.

Read more: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/other-sports/hawthorn-star-lance-franklin-set-to-join-sydney-swans-after-gws-withdraws-offer/story-e6frf56c-1226730745667#ixzz2gSZgGNXF


Very interesting as Schulz would say. All will be revealed on AFL360 tonight.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

AFL 360 is back on the air tonight given the the Franklin news. They should run this show though October.

I was thinking this might happen. Too big a discussion (and ratings winner) point to let slip through Fox Footy channel's fingers.

[Eastdog]

AFL going to look into the Swans deal with Franklin.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

AFL going to look into the Swans deal with Franklin.

A formality. AFL scrutinise all deals. The AFL saying they will investigate is more about form over substance.
For me the issue that affects us is what does this do the concept of equalisation? I get the feeling from Eddie Mcguire that its going to be every club for themselves. If so this doesn't bode well for smaller clubs like ourselves.

[Hotdog60]

A formality. AFL scrutinise all deals. The AFL saying they will investigate is more about form over substance.
For me the issue that affects us is what does this do the concept of equalisation? I get the feeling from Eddie Mcguire that its going to be every club for themselves. If so this doesn't bode well for smaller clubs like ourselves.

Going by Eddies reaction the AFL needs to take a serious look at it's self. The Commission was put in place to look after the completion. The way things are going they are going to destroy it.

In the light of this game fixing by Sydney the AFL needs to pull in the reins and square the ledger and implement equalisation now. They can prop up the northern clubs to make them viable through equalisation, not through wroughting the system.

[bulldogsman]

Just turned on the computer and found this. Wow Buddy to Sydney and then I see the 9 years. I'm shocked.

[FrediKanoute]

What is the rationale behind the 9 year duration? Mark Robinson tweeted that the money is unconditional...so even if he only plays six years he still gets paid??

For what? A coaching role, or working with their academy? Or just for looking pretty and living in Sydney?

Could it be a way of smoothing £6m over 9 years at $750k p/a?

[Axe Man]

Could it be a way of smoothing £6m over 9 years at $750k p/a?

Not when it's being reported as around $10 million over 9 years.

[hujsh]

According to this site (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp) the cost of living is significantly more expensive in Sydney than Melbourne. So that stacks up.

However it also claims that, apart from rent, Perth is more expensive than Sydney and with rent they're about the same. Franklin would surely be buying a house, which could be seen as an investment, which highlights a key weakness of the cost of living cap space they get.

[comrade]

According to this site (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp) the cost of living is significantly more expensive in Sydney than Melbourne. So that stacks up.

However it also claims that, apart from rent, Perth is more expensive than Sydney and with rent they're about the same. Franklin would surely be buying a house, which could be seen as an investment, which highlights a key weakness of the cost of living cap space they get.

As TCD said, Geelong is cheaper so why don't the Cats lose some cap money?

COLA is a rubbish initiative and was only introduced to prop up a team in the NRL heartland.

[KT31]

As TCD said, Geelong is cheaper so why don't the Cats lose some cap money?

COLA is a rubbish initiative and was only introduced to prop up a team in the NRL heartland.

Because it is a farce, its is a policy to entice players to Swans so the AFL can have a decent team with a one or two crowd drawing stars in Sydney.
Now if it is to be a true national competition it should be abolished.
The extra is only used on a small percentage of Sydney players,.
With what they are paying Tippett and now possible Buddy how can all the players on Sydney's list be receiving the 10% extra ?
IMO all club Presidents will be making a protest and making sure this will be abolished asap.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

What is the rationale behind the 9 year duration? Mark Robinson tweeted that the money is unconditional...so even if he only plays six years he still gets paid??

For what? A coaching role, or working with their academy? Or just for looking pretty and living in Sydney?

One rationale: to get Franklin to Sydney and to lock him in for the rest of his career. Also it's a way around the salary cap. The total on the till is what it takes to get Franklin but if they spread it out over a maximum amount of time, it's less per year out of the salary cap. However they are selling their future to do it, knowing that it may get them a premiership or two and the money will be worth less in six or so years, salary caps then will be more.

[whythelongface]

One rationale: to get Franklin to Sydney and to lock him in for the rest of his career. Also it's a way around the salary cap. The total on the till is what it takes to get Franklin but if they spread it out over a maximum amount of time, it's less per year out of the salary cap. However they are selling their future to do it, knowing that it may get them a premiership or two and the money will be worth less in six or so years, salary caps then will be more.

But how? It is still $1.1M over 9 years. They surely couldn't afford to front load the contract as this would blow the cap out of the water in the first few years. One wonders if there are some third party deals that are a part of all this.

[whythelongface]

Just answered my own question with this article.



Lance Franklin's extraordinary nine-year, $10 million contract offer to join Sydney will see him paid a relatively low amount in his first years at the club while Kurt Tippett's sizeable contract tapers down.

The Swans are understood to have stretched the Franklin contract over nine years and structured it with relatively lower payments in the early years to allow them to afford Franklin and Tippett.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/buddy-bonanza-20131001-2uqtv.html#ixzz2gWcUyNxW

[Flamethrower]

I am sure the 9 yr deal is just a fend-off to any club wanting to match the deal ( Hawks ). Buddy will just play on & off the field until he has had enough ( 5-6yrs) and then retire and tear up the last 3-4 yrs.
Sydney have given everyone the bird.

They can't do this.

First point....If Buddy stops playing before the end of the 9 year contract he remains a listed player, taking up a spot on Sydney's list for all 9 years. The Swans would be one player down for every year Buddy doesn't play.

Not only that but if Buddy was to stop playing before the end of the contract, the entire amount of the unpaid contract would count against the salary cap for the final season he plays. For example, if Buddy retires after 5 years, the final 4 years of payments (about $4m) would count against the cap for that final season.

The Swans can renegotiate the contract to their heart's content, but the original contract will count against Sydney's TPP unless the total amount/length of contract is increased.

The only reason the AFL may void the contract is if they believe there is a real danger that the contract wll have a huge detrimental effect on the Swan's ability to be competitive towards the back end of the 9 year deal.

For those like fat Eddie who are complaining about the Sydney stockpiling all of this talent, welcome to the wonderful world of free agency. You wanted it...these are the consequences.

[Remi Moses]

Yep the clubs wanted it .
One of the few issues I agreed with Sockeye Salmon with.
Gotta say after this and the Ablett stuff a few years ago,if Liam Pickering told you it was raining you'd check for yourself .

[LostDoggy]

They can't do this.

First point....If Buddy stops playing before the end of the 9 year contract he remains a listed player, taking up a spot on Sydney's list for all 9 years. The Swans would be one player down for every year Buddy doesn't play.

Not only that but if Buddy was to stop playing before the end of the contract, the entire amount of the unpaid contract would count against the salary cap for the final season he plays. For example, if Buddy retires after 5 years, the final 4 years of payments .

Agree with the second paragraph, but the first - how does he remain a listed player and take up a spot? :confused:

[KT31]

Agree with the second paragraph, but the first - how does he remain a listed player and take up a spot? :confused:

My understanding would be the Swans would delist him and pay him out so he won't take up a spot on their list but his salary will continue to be under their cap until payment would be completed.

[bulldogtragic]

How's the ego on him?

A young kid is forced to give up number '23' so he can have it. Not only arrogant but I suspect his branding stuff with number '23' on it has business implications for him.

I tolerated him at Hawthorn, can't stand him now.

[Remi Moses]

Really? Sydney's a different market and I doubt they'd even know what number he wore with Hawthorn.
The AFL would just love the fact Buddy's in the social pages and front and centre all over the paper.

[azabob]

How's the ego on him?

A young kid is forced to give up number '23' so he can have it. Not only arrogant but I suspect his branding stuff with number '23' on it has business implications for him.

I tolerated him at Hawthorn, can't stand him now.

Here are a couple of grabs from the below article

"He is starting again with number 18, which is great for him," Franklin said
It's about just getting on a list or playing a game, your jumper number doesn't matter as long as you're playing football for the Sydney Swans


If it is just about playing footy - why did you need #23?

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/sydney-recruit-lance-franklin-to-wear-no23-in-the-harbour-city/story-fndv8ujy-1226778774541

[westdog54]

How's the ego on him?

A young kid is forced to give up number '23' so he can have it. Not only arrogant but I suspect his branding stuff with number '23' on it has business implications for him.

I tolerated him at Hawthorn, can't stand him now.

So Tony Lockett, all time goalkicking record holder, wears #46 for a year when he makes his (ultimately ill-fated) comeback, but Lance Franklin gets brought in on a mercenary's salary and poor Jordan Lockyer gets told 'too bad, so sad'.

[azabob]

So Tony Lockett, all time goalkicking record holder, wears #46 for a year when he makes his (ultimately ill-fated) comeback, but Lance Franklin gets brought in on a mercenary's salary and poor Jordan Lockyer gets told 'too bad, so sad'.

Lockett did try to get #4, but Ben Matthews said no.

[westdog54]

Lockett did try to get #4, but Ben Matthews said no.

That's exactly my point.

[Topdog]

That's exactly my point.

What is your point? That one person (Matthews) said no and another (Lockyer) didn't? Both had the choice.

[azabob]

What is your point? That one person (Matthews) said no and another (Lockyer) didn't? Both had the choice.

Not sure you are comparing apples with apples. Lockyer has played 1 season of footy (not one AFL game) Matthews had played 5 seasons and over 50 odd AFL games.

[westdog54]

What is your point? That one person (Matthews) said no and another (Lockyer) didn't? Both had the choice.

You honestly believe that?

[Maddog37]

Shows a lack of respect and a self indulgent attitude if Buddy was adamant he needed to wear 23 but if it was offered up before he asked then I would not judge him too harshly.

I would hope he sat down and discussed it with the kid before doing it either way though.

[jeemak]

I think it was probably a matter of Buddy saying "I'd like to wear number 23", and those negotiating for Sydney saying "sure thing Bud" and telling the kid he's wearing a new number next year.

All involved have probably well and truly moved on.

[ledge]

It's simply his trade mark number, everyone knows it and SYdney will continue it.

[westdog54]

It's simply his trade mark number, everyone knows it and SYdney will continue it.

Trade Mark Number? Give me a spell. In my view there's only one bloke on the planet that can claim 23 as a 'Trade Mark Number' and that's Michael Jordan.

Franklin was following in the footsteps of the likes of Don Scott and Dermot Brereton when he took Hawthorn's number 23. The number bears no relevance to his time at Sydney.

[1eyedog]

I think it was probably a matter of Buddy saying "I'd like to wear number 23", and those negotiating for Sydney saying "sure thing Bud" and telling the kid he's wearing a new number next year.

All involved have probably well and truly moved on.

Spot on and I don't see the big deal. Buddy's an arrogant superstar, but he's still a superstar. You cancel the Guy Sebastian concert if Michael Jackson says that's the same night that he wants to play.

[1eyedog]

Trade Mark Number? Give me a spell. In my view there's only one bloke on the planet that can claim 23 as a 'Trade Mark Number' and that's Michael Jordan.

Franklin was following in the footsteps of the likes of Don Scott and Dermot Brereton when he took Hawthorn's number 23. The number bears no relevance to his time at Sydney.

Lance Franklin is Australia's Michael Jordan no two ways about it. HE IS A FREAK! You need to bring it into the context where it belongs and that is Australian sport and more specifically the AFL. Go to outback communities and see what number they're all wearing.

And what is the bolded about? Who cares about Scott and Dermie and where is the relevance with Franklin taking over their number? Of course the number existed prior to Franklin as did Jordan's but there is no question that Franklin has made it his own in the AFL - who he wears it with is simply a byproduct of the Buddy brand.

[Maddog37]

Far as I am concerned Buddy was wearing Dermies number. He was the man when I was a kid and his deeds make Buddy look like a b grader.

[Twodogs]

Far as I am concerned Buddy was wearing Dermies number. He was the man when I was a kid and his deeds make Buddy look like a b grader.



Very much so. If Buddy had played in 5 premierships at CHF at Hawthorn then he could start to consider it being his number.

[Ghost Dog]

Spot on and I don't see the big deal. Buddy's an arrogant superstar, but he's still a superstar. You cancel the Guy Sebastian concert if Michael Jackson says that's the same night that he wants to play.

MJ in thriller part II! rise from the dead.....:D

[Twodogs]

MJ in thriller part II! rise from the dead.....:D

The "haha-fooled everyone." tour.

[LostDoggy]

Lance Franklin is Australia's Michael Jordan no two ways about it. HE IS A FREAK! You need to bring it into the context where it belongs and that is Australian sport and more specifically the AFL. Go to outback communities and see what number they're all wearing.

And what is the bolded about? Who cares about Scott and Dermie and where is the relevance with Franklin taking over their number? Of course the number existed prior to Franklin as did Jordan's but there is no question that Franklin has made it his own in the AFL - who he wears it with is simply a byproduct of the Buddy brand.


Very much so. If Buddy had played in 5 premierships at CHF at Hawthorn then he could start to consider it being his number.

Dermie >>>>>>>> Buddy

Think of it this way: who is remembered the most for our number 3? Grant or EJ? Both champions, but the difference is one wore the number and the other IS the number.

[1eyedog]

Far as I am concerned Buddy was wearing Dermies number. He was the man when I was a kid and his deeds make Buddy look like a b grader.

Agreed, Dermie was the man, but I wasn't comparing their footballing prowess I was talking about branding and club marketing and its implications for Buddy and no. 23.


Very much so. If Buddy had played in 5 premierships at CHF at Hawthorn then he could start to consider it being his number.

Yes but brands and marketing are almost as big as premierships now. I was in Fitzroy Crossing last year and there were a fair few Hawthorn jumpers with number 23 on the back, I'd wager that's Buddy's number they have on and not Dermies. Interestingly there were also a few Essendon jumpers with number 23 on the back and I couldn't think who it was (it's Myers) so when I queried it they told me that Essendon was their favourite team but Buddy Franklin was their favourite player. I wonder how many Hawthorn kids actually remember Dermie... It's Buddy's number because he's made and will continue to make a shiteload of money off it.


MJ in thriller part II! rise from the dead.....:D

I thought it was a good analogy!:) albeit a posthumous one.

[divvydan]

You make a good point about the branding/marketing. I remember hearing a couple of years ago that Buddy was far and away the most marketable player in the league, in terms of stuff sold with either his number or image etc.

Here we go


HAWTHORN superstar Lance Franklin sells more than double the merchandise of any other AFL player via online shopping, cementing his position as the biggest name in the game.

IMG Sports Technology, which runs the online stores for 17 of the 18 AFL clubs has compiled data from the 2012 season, and concluded Franklin branded jumpers, badges, t-shirts and caps are by far the most popular.

"It's not surprising that he was number one, but the sheer volume ... the gap between himself and the guys in the rest of the list was amazing to us," IMG STG creative director Danny Bishop told AFL.com.au.


Top 10 at the time for those interested


The top 10:

1. Lance Franklin - Hawthorn
2. Cyril Rioli - Hawthorn
3. Chris Judd - Carlton
4. Jobe Watson - Essendon
5. Luke Hodge - Hawthorn
6. Joel Selwood - Geelong
7. Marc Murphy - Carlton
8. Adam Goodes - Sydney Swans
9. Jimmy Bartel - Geelong
10. Lenny Hayes - St Kilda


Given that level of merchandising, I can understand why both he and the club would want him to keep the #23.

[hujsh]

Lance Franklin is Australia's Michael Jordan no two ways about it. HE IS A FREAK! You need to bring it into the context where it belongs and that is Australian sport and more specifically the AFL. Go to outback communities and see what number they're all wearing.

And what is the bolded about? Who cares about Scott and Dermie and where is the relevance with Franklin taking over their number? Of course the number existed prior to Franklin as did Jordan's but there is no question that Franklin has made it his own in the AFL - who he wears it with is simply a byproduct of the Buddy brand.

Nope. Maybe the Lebron James of the AFL though.

[KT31]

The top 10:

1. Lance Franklin - Hawthorn
2. Cyril Rioli - Hawthorn
3. Chris Judd - Carlton
4. Jobe Watson - Essendon
5. Luke Hodge - Hawthorn
6. Joel Selwood - Geelong
7. Marc Murphy - Carlton
8. Adam Goodes - Sydney Swans
9. Jimmy Bartel - Geelong
10. Lenny Hayes - St Kilda

Two things surprise me on the list - one is no Ablett jnr and two there is not a Collingwood player.


Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
Lance Franklin is Australia's Michael Jordan no two ways about it.

Don't agree, but I would agree that Fev is Australia's Dennis Rodman.

[jeemak]

Judd is no. 3 on the list KT31.

[Twodogs]

Judd is no. 3 on the list KT31.


Apart from #3, obviously!

[Twodogs]

Yes but brands and marketing are almost as big as premierships now. I was in Fitzroy Crossing last year and there were a fair few Hawthorn jumpers with number 23 on the back, I'd wager that's Buddy's number they have on and not Dermies. Interestingly there were also a few Essendon jumpers with number 23 on the back and I couldn't think who it was (it's Myers) so when I queried it they told me that Essendon was their favourite team but Buddy Franklin was their favourite player. I wonder how many Hawthorn kids actually remember Dermie... It's Buddy's number because he's made and will continue to make a shiteload of money of it.


On that basis I agree.

[KT31]

Judd is no. 3 on the list KT31.

New I shouldn't have been multitasking and had the proper glasses on.:o

[divvydan]

Collingwood was the only club the rankings didn't have access to, however, from the same article


Dane Swan, who won the Brownlow in 2011, is understood to be their top ranked seller, with Alan Didak the second best Magpie.

It is estimated Swan ranks about 16th on the list across the competition.

I imagine GCS just don't/didn't have the number of supporters to get GAJ higher in the list.

[1eyedog]

Two things surprise me on the list - one is no Ablett jnr and two there is not a Collingwood player.



Don't agree, but I would agree that Fev is Australia's Dennis Rodman.

Who would be your alternative? If you had to pick one player from the AFL who has the big-show qualities of Jordan who would it be?

[Remi Moses]

Not only are they going to miss his ability playing wise, but also the marketing aspect.
It's just nonsense that Hawthorn are not going to miss Franklin.

[LostDoggy]

Not only are they going to miss his ability playing wise, but also the marketing aspect.
It's just nonsense that Hawthorn are not going to miss Franklin.

They can't very well say, “Shit, we're screwed now!”

[Happy Days]

Maybe Dermie is the man to you guys but to me and other people my age Buddy is the shit and Dermie is an old dude with a facelift who stomps on dudes heads.

[jeemak]

Maybe Dermie is the man to you guys but to me and other people my age Buddy is the shit and Dermie is an old dude with a facelift who stomps on dudes heads.

He purses his lips too much as well, when he's on TV.

[Twodogs]

He purses his lips too much as well, when he's on TV.


And uses far too many words to convey an idea. Dermie has some interesting things to say but his verbal diarrhoea is awful.

[jeemak]

And uses far too many words to convey an idea. Dermie has some interesting things to say but his verbal diarrhoea is awful.

He's a very very smart person when it comes to football.

But you're right. He does struggle to be concise.

[Topdog]

Comparing Buddy to Jordan is a disgrace. Buddy isn't even the best player in the comp and what "big-show" qualities does he have. I can only remember him being dominate in 1 finals game. The rest he has been decidedly average.

[1eyedog]

Comparing Buddy to Jordan is a disgrace. Buddy isn't even the best player in the comp and what "big-show" qualities does he have. I can only remember him being dominate in 1 finals game. The rest he has been decidedly average.

You must be old or just watch Bulldogs games and it's not a disgrace it's a conversation topic and I'm asking who is like him in AFL in terms of freakish ability. I'm not saying he's as good as Jordan in a world sports sense.

7 goals in the 2007 elimination final his 7th with 11 secs on the clock stealing the win

Franklin kicked his 100th goal for the home and away season against Carlton in Round 22, becoming the first to kick 100 goals in the AFL home and away season since Tony Lockett in 1998

He then added to that by kicking another eight goals in a qualifying final against us, tying with Dermot Brereton for the most goals kicked by a Hawthorn player in a finals match.

8 goals in two finals in 2011.

Fairly good performances across 4 finals

Four AAs and he's only just turned 26 so is entering his prime.

[bulldogtragic]

Hasn't he also got a couple of goals of the year nods? I.e. Freakish individual skills.

[1eyedog]

Hasn't he also got a couple of goals of the year nods? I.e. Freakish individual skills.

Yeah he has and that goal against Essendon with Hooker running after him down the wing- one of the best ever I reckon. There's a reason why he is the biggest name in football.

[Twodogs]

Yeah he has and that goal against Essendon with Hooker running after him down the wing- one of the best ever I reckon. There's a reason why he is the biggest name in football.


Didn't he do that twice inside 5 minutes that night?

[bornadog]

Yeah he has and that goal against Essendon with Hooker running after him down the wing- one of the best ever I reckon. There's a reason why he is the biggest name in football.

He is a Freak:

2wh0uRajy_4

[Greystache]

Didn't he do that twice inside 5 minutes that night?

Yep, Hooker was the second one. He ran away from Mark McVeigh and goaled a couple of minutes earlier. Although since then James Hird has denied any knowledge of it happening and McVeigh agrees with him.

[Twodogs]

Yep, Hooker was the second one. He ran away from Mark McVeigh and goaled a couple of minutes earlier. Although since then James Hird has denied any knowledge of it happening and McVeigh agrees with him.



And then got stuck into Kyle Reimers.

[jeemak]

Yep, Hooker was the second one. He ran away from Mark McVeigh and goaled a couple of minutes earlier. Although since then James Hird has denied any knowledge of it happening and McVeigh agrees with him.

Excellent.

Anyone who watched the 2008 QF when he tore us a new one should know how much of a freak he can be.

1ED's not saying he's as good as Jordan was in his sport mind. I don't think anyone's saying he is.

[bulldogtragic]

Excellent.

Anyone who watched the 2008 QF when he tore us a new one should know how much of a freak he can be.

1ED's not saying he's as good as Jordan was in his sport mind. I don't think anyone's saying he is.
I had just forgotten about that match... What was I typing again?

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

[1eyedog]

Didn't he do that twice inside 5 minutes that night?

He almost did it a few weeks after that as well against Sydney I think but I'm probably wrong there. He got his man under the flight of the ball, took possession and ran 80 metres around the boundary line and kicked from the 50 on the wrong side for a left footer and hit the post.

[bulldogtragic]

And he kicked thirteen, thiiiirrteeeennn a year back.

[jeemak]

I had just forgotten about that match... What was I typing again?



Whilst I am hurt by the PF's during that time, the QF's of 2008-2009 disappointed me the most. Just not ready for finals footy on both occasions.

I can understand why you're traumatised.

[1eyedog]

Excellent.

Anyone who watched the 2008 QF when he tore us a new one should know how much of a freak he can be.

1ED's not saying he's as good as Jordan was in his sport mind. I don't think anyone's saying he is.

Nah I wasn't just really bored during the football hiatus mate and I guess just trying to draw comparisons between AFL players and others from world sport to assess how our athletes stack up. I realise some people worship Jordan though and that's cool.

[bulldogtragic]

Whilst I am hurt by the PF's during that time, the QF's of 2008-2009 disappointed me the most. Just not ready for finals footy on both occasions.

I can understand why you're traumatised.
Outside heart breaking PFs, the 08 Buddy show final the worst I've ever, ever felt at the football. A sad mix of helplessness, anger, disappointment, frustration, desperation, hope shattering combining to be a blunt trauma to my consciousness that my mind has tried to erase. And did well until this thread... The only way we got out of back 50 for 15 minutes was Buddy giving Lake 50 penalties. In a final... Arghhhhh...

Everyone has their one game (outside prelims), this is mine.

[Topdog]

I dont even worship Jordan though, far from it but Buddy just isnt in his league. I had erased that QF final from my memory so yes he has had excellent games in 2 finals. In Grand Finals he has scored 1 goal twice and of course the 3 goals 4 behinds with several easy misses when Sydney were able to slot 14.7. He has never dominated a finals series, never won the Norm Smith (dont think he has even got a vote) and hasnt had anywhere near the sort of impact on the sport that Jordan had.

Even as a forward for me he has nothing on Derm and Carey and his decreased output this year in every stat doesnt look like someone entering their prime.

[jeemak]

Yeah, I hear you.

The Geelong QF in 2009 was just putrid, because even as we weren't switched on we were still able to get back into it once we woke up.

[bulldogtragic]

Yeah, I hear you.

The Geelong QF in 2009 was just putrid, because even as we weren't switched on we were still able to get back into it once we woke up.
Sounds silly maybe, but I honestly think if we played remotely well, we could have beaten Geelong in EVERY final we played in those finals. And we should have... We were the team who actually had their measure IMO, just didn't do well enough for long enough.

[jeemak]

I think we lacked the star power to get us through over long stretches in games against the best teams, Geelong included. Having a fit and firing Cooney would have helped a lot though.

While guys like Franklin don't always dominate finals, so much of the opposition planning goes into stopping them and it allows other players to benefit from looser marking. We really lacked the player forward and through the middle that the opposition would have been completely shit scared of letting off the leash.

[LostDoggy]

You must be old or just watch Bulldogs games and it's not a disgrace it's a conversation topic and I'm asking who is like him in AFL in terms of freakish ability. I'm not saying he's as good as Jordan in a world sports sense.

7 goals in the 2007 elimination final his 7th with 11 secs on the clock stealing the win

Franklin kicked his 100th goal for the home and away season against Carlton in Round 22, becoming the first to kick 100 goals in the AFL home and away season since Tony Lockett in 1998

He then added to that by kicking another eight goals in a qualifying final against us, tying with Dermot Brereton for the most goals kicked by a Hawthorn player in a finals match.

8 goals in two finals in 2011.

Fairly good performances across 4 finals

Four AAs and he's only just turned 26 so is entering his prime.

Ablett.

[KT31]

Who would be your alternative? If you had to pick one player from the AFL who has the big-show qualities of Jordan who would it be?

Sorry 1eyedog, I missed this earlier.
I really don't think at the moment we have a player off Jordan's ilk in the AFL, for mine (and I know very little about basketball), but Jordan would be in the Whitten, Barassi league.
I do rate Ablett a lot more than Buddy, he was a star in a great team and is an absolute champion in a start up team.

[Twodogs]

Sorry 1eyedog, I missed this earlier.
I really don't think at the moment we have a player off Jordan's ilk in the AFL, for mine (and I know very little about basketball), but Jordan would be in the Whitten, Barassi league.
I do rate Ablett a lot more than Buddy, he was a star in a great team and is an absolute champion in a start up team.



I meant to mention this too. Teddy is an excellent example. He did the hard yards promoting the game by going up to the Tiwi Islands every year, going to games, visiting communities and IIRC the medal for the best player in the Grand Final is named after him. EJ didn't sit back and let TV do all the work for him. He went, he saw and he conquered.

[Bulldog4life]

I meant to mention this too. Teddy is an excellent example. He did the hard yards promoting the game by going up to the Tiwi Islands every year, going to games, visiting communities and IIRC the medal for the best player in the Grand Final is named after him. EJ didn't sit back and let TV do all the work for him. He went, he saw and he conquered.

And Ted was such a freakish player that he could play any position on the ground...and he did.

[Twodogs]

And Ted was such a freakish player that he could play any position on the ground...and he did.

Imagine what the hype surrounding him would have been like if he had played these days?

[bulldogtragic]

Imagine what the hype surrounding him would have been like if he had played these days?
Somewhere between Buddy, Matthews, Carey, Ablett. Matthews probably as the way Teddy was maliciously 'rumoured' to whack opposition players, he'd be under a little scrutiny of the match review panel... :)

[1eyedog]

I dont even worship Jordan though, far from it but Buddy just isnt in his league. I had erased that QF final from my memory so yes he has had excellent games in 2 finals. In Grand Finals he has scored 1 goal twice and of course the 3 goals 4 behinds with several easy misses when Sydney were able to slot 14.7. He has never dominated a finals series, never won the Norm Smith (dont think he has even got a vote) and hasnt had anywhere near the sort of impact on the sport that Jordan had.

Even as a forward for me he has nothing on Derm and Carey and his decreased output this year in every stat doesnt look like someone entering their prime.

Yeah all that is fair enough - no question he has freakish ability in patches though.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah all that is fair enough - no question he has freakish ability in patches though.
Jarrad Grant has freakish ability in patches.

[bulldogtragic]

Jarrad Grant has freakish ability in patches.
I was having a good think about my man Jarrad, he kind of reminds me when Stevey Johnson was kicked out by Harley and to some degree BMac. When the penny falls on such highly talented players... Well look at what Stevey J has done since then. And not talked about much, if Stevey J hadn't been rubbed out I think he would have won the brownlow last year, look at his vote tallies. And, IF, and it's a mid sized if, if he puts it to full effect, Grant will be the story of next year, lock this post in. Stew and Jones get the best two defenders, Campbell's height means he needs a taller type, so next year Grant should murder teams 3rd or 4th defender and journos will be sprouting his freakish look away handballs. And so will I!

[LostDoggy]

I was having a good think about my man Jarrad, he kind of reminds me when Stevey Johnson was kicked out by Harley and to some degree BMac. When the penny falls on such highly talented players... Well look at what Stevey J has done since then. And not talked about much, if Stevey J hadn't been rubbed out I think he would have won the brownlow last year, look at his vote tallies. And, IF, and it's a mid sized if, if he puts it to full effect, Grant will be the story of next year, lock this post in. Stew and Jones get the best two defenders, Campbell's height means he needs a taller type, so next year Grant should murder teams 3rd or 4th defender and journos will be sprouting his freakish look away handballs. And so will I!

Hope so. Your Grant love deserves recognition and reward.

[bulldogtragic]

Hope so. Your Grant love deserves recognition and reward.
Thanks BAS! :)

Loving Grant unconditionally is a journey. Highest of highs and pretty deep lows, but I've never given up. He has everything, he just needs to put it all together and ideally another forward or two to take the better defender. To quote Bob Murphy, "I tell Granty in our one on ones, his best is the best I've ever played on". It's one heck of a ride, I'm hoping he's going to repay the faith and have a cracking year.

[1eyedog]

Jarrad Grant has freakish ability in patches.

He does, another good example. He could be anything - so glad we managed to keep him.

[Twodogs]

I was having a good think about my man Jarrad, he kind of reminds me when Stevey Johnson was kicked out by Harley and to some degree BMac. When the penny falls on such highly talented players... Well look at what Stevey J has done since then. And not talked about much, if Stevey J hadn't been rubbed out I think he would have won the brownlow last year, look at his vote tallies. And, IF, and it's a mid sized if, if he puts it to full effect, Grant will be the story of next year, lock this post in. Stew and Jones get the best two defenders, Campbell's height means he needs a taller type, so next year Grant should murder teams 3rd or 4th defender and journos will be sprouting his freakish look away handballs. And so will I!


You're not the only one to see the Stevie J comparison. Onfield especially so.

[Topdog]

Yeah all that is fair enough - no question he has freakish ability in patches though.

Yes but Jordan wasn't really about the freakish. In fact he was barely about the freakish at all. Magic Johnson (my personal favourite) was much more of a freak and played in every position on the court during his career. Even Dominique Wilkins whose nickname was "The Human highlight reel" was more of the freakish variety.

[KT31]

I meant to mention this too. Teddy is an excellent example. He did the hard yards promoting the game by going up to the Tiwi Islands every year, going to games, visiting communities and IIRC the medal for the best player in the Grand Final is named after him. EJ didn't sit back and let TV do all the work for him. He went, he saw and he conquered.

Great conversation on the cricket today about Botham's knighthood.
Not knighted so much for his cricket ( and if you look at some of the pleb's that have been it would well and truly been deserved) it was for his charity and underprivileged work.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with Jeemak in that I just don't think we had the star power of the Cats in that period .
I'm traumatised by not having pick 2 and 5 in that draft.
Would we have picked Buddy?
Buddy and Griff in the one side,

[jeemak]

Yes but Jordan wasn't really about the freakish. In fact he was barely about the freakish at all. Magic Johnson (my personal favourite) was much more of a freak and played in every position on the court during his career. Even Dominique Wilkins whose nickname was "The Human highlight reel" was more of the freakish variety.

Early career, everything Jordan did was freakish. Defensive work, offensive work and big game was all there.

As NBA became more defensive and slow transitional he became a shooting player more than anything else.

Johnson was another story. For a 6ft 9in fella, he was so mobile without being quick, so sharp and clever.

[1eyedog]

Yes but Jordan wasn't really about the freakish. In fact he was barely about the freakish at all. Magic Johnson (my personal favourite) was much more of a freak and played in every position on the court during his career. Even Dominique Wilkins whose nickname was "The Human highlight reel" was more of the freakish variety.

I meant Franklin but yes you're right Jordan did not do freakish things he just played at a few levels above everyone else his entire career.

I don't watch basketball, I have zero interest in it.

[jeemak]

There's some pretty freakish things here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk

[westdog54]

And what is the bolded about? Who cares about Scott and Dermie and where is the relevance with Franklin taking over their number? Of course the number existed prior to Franklin as did Jordan's but there is no question that Franklin has made it his own in the AFL - who he wears it with is simply a byproduct of the Buddy brand.


Very much so. If Buddy had played in 5 premierships at CHF at Hawthorn then he could start to consider it being his number.

Twodogs has answered your question succinctly.

By your logic Wayne carey would have walked into number 18 at Adelaide. At the end of the day he has a connection to the number 23 at Hawthorn. He has no connection whatsoever to the number 23 guernsey at Sydney. Full stop.

[bornadog]

Twodogs has answered your question succinctly.

By your logic Wayne carey would have walked into number 18 at Adelaide. At the end of the day he has a connection to the number 23 at Hawthorn. He has no connection whatsoever to the number 23 guernsey at Sydney. Full stop.

He has worn number 23 all is footy career. Even in the Under 18 Champs.

[westdog54]

[
He has worn number 23 all is footy career. Even in the Under 18 Champs.

The difference is that he wouldn't have asked for some other player to give it up for him.

Sydney's number 23 guernsey has no significance to him.

To argue that a heap of Lance Frankin merchandise is being sold as a reason to let him pick his own number (And I know that you didn't make that argument) is a load of bollocks.

[jeemak]

What's the big deal?

He likes number 23 and he's the marquee player.

[Twodogs]

What's the big deal?

He likes number 23 and he's the marquee player.


Exactly. Footballers are big on the "it's worked well for me so far" mindset too.

[Topdog]

There's some pretty freakish things here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk


Certainly is, thanks for posting it. Only issue with it is I like to pretend the Washington years never happened and if featured in this top 50 :D

Oh and #1 was a clear push off foul. Love #3, that celebration was fantastic.

[1eyedog]

[

The difference is that he wouldn't have asked for some other player to give it up for him.

Sydney's number 23 guernsey has no significance to him.

To argue that a heap of Lance Frankin merchandise is being sold as a reason to let him pick his own number (And I know that you didn't make that argument) is a load of bollocks.

You've spoken to him about it have you? Thanks for your unnecessary clarification too but my point still stands, aside from winning one million premierships marketing and branding are very, very important in today's game, especially to those who invest in it but are outside any interest in the game - so no, he only answered succinctly in your opinion and the original comment was connecting numbers by amount of premierships won in that number, which, is really just an alternate opinion.

I provided a counter argument that stated that Buddy is just as much brand as football player and number 23 is part of his on-going brand - irrespective of how many no. 23 jumpers he's going to sell at Sydney. You need to separate Buddy the footballer and Buddy the brand and Buddy the brand is so much bigger than Buddy the footballer to many people.

[1eyedog]

What's the big deal?

He likes number 23 and he's the marquee player.

Yes it's an emotional link and it means something to him - he is tied to it and he is recognised by it so some marketing firms would say that Buddy is no. 23.

[Maddog37]

You've spoken to him about it have you? Thanks for your unnecessary clarification too but my point still stands, aside from winning one million premierships marketing and branding are very, very important in today's game, especially to those who invest in it but are outside any interest in the game - so no, he only answered succinctly in your opinion and the original comment was connecting numbers by amount of premierships won in that number, which, is really just an alternate opinion.

I provided a counter argument that stated that Buddy is just as much brand as football player and number 23 is part of his on-going brand - irrespective of how many no. 23 jumpers he's going to sell at Sydney. You need to separate Buddy the footballer and Buddy the brand and Buddy the brand is so much bigger than Buddy the footballer to many people.



I would venture that Buddy the brand has been more important than Buddy the footballer to the Hawks.

[LostDoggy]

I don't think Buddy should have demanded #23, no matter what his reasons, brand, marketing, football, superstition or otherwise.

But that said, it's done: he did, and Sydney let him do it. I don't think a number should really be up for sale like that, so if Sydney decided it wasn't that important for their number 23 to be earned rather than simply requested, all power to them. Lockyer is better off — he can make another number his own, the right way.

[soupman]

He has worn number 23 all is footy career. Even in the Under 18 Champs.

Except for his first year at Hawthorn when he wore 38.

[Remi Moses]

I don't see the big issue to be honest .
He likes the number and of course he's a heavily marketed commodity. .
If it was an older player i'm not sure they 'd be giving up their number.

[Remi Moses]

I would venture that Buddy the brand has been more important than Buddy the footballer to the Hawks.

I think regardless of the murmurings out of Waverley they will miss Buddy enormously.
Marketing and footy wise.

[Maddog37]

No doubt Remi. It will be interesting to see how they go.

[1eyedog]

Except for his first year at Hawthorn when he wore 38.

Pretty hard to take the number off your leading goal kicker and give it to a kid though. As soon as Thommo left he got it. I reckon Hawthorn will miss him big time. Not for his smarts and ability to convert but he attracted so much opposition attention that now opposition backs will be all over Hawthorn forwards like flies.

[Topdog]

I dunno they handled every game he has missed for the past 2 seasons with no problems.

[LostDoggy]

I dunno they handled every game he has missed for the past 2 seasons with no problems.

Roughead is a real issue.

[bornadog]

Buddy to play his 350th game this week. He is an all time great of the AFL.