Pick 4 - what to do?

[chef]

Anyone catch Emma Quayle of Triple M this morning? I only caught the end of it but it sounded as though she mentioned us and pick 4 and perhaps a differing view between coach and recruiters?

You would think this happens with most clubs and most picks.

[Twodogs]

Anyone catch Emma Quayle of Triple M this morning? I only caught the end of it but it sounded as though she mentioned us and pick 4 and perhaps a differing view between coach and recruiters?


It might get mentioned later today on the podcast:


http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/

[Mofra]

You would think this happens with most clubs and most picks.
Didn't it happen with B-Mac wanting a contested animal 2 years ago so we picked up Clay Smith?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Didn't it happen with B-Mac wanting a contested animal 2 years ago so we picked up Clay Smith?

yes and i think last season Macca wanted Wines but the recruiters wanted Macrae. Not sure if true though

[soupman]

Didn't it happen with B-Mac wanting a contested animal 2 years ago so we picked up Clay Smith?

Pretty sure Macca just set the direction of the pick (ie. Contested ball winner) and the recruiters took it from there.

[Mofra]

Pretty sure Macca just set the direction of the pick (ie. Contested ball winner) and the recruiters took it from there.
Ja, that's kind of what I was getting at (ie contested animal)

[chef]

Didn't it happen with B-Mac wanting a contested animal 2 years ago so we picked up Clay Smith?

Macca may get some say in setting the direction, but when it comes to choosing the player Dalrymple makes that choice.

[bulldogsman]

My guess is Dalrymple would want Billings. McCartney - Bontempelli/Scharenberg.

[chef]

My guess is Dalrymple would want Billings. McCartney - Bontempelli/Scharenberg.

J Mac may say get a bit of a say in it too you would think.

[bulldogsman]

J Mac may say get a bit of a say in it too you would think.

Yeah true. He tends to like the taller mids that can do it all from the conversions I've had with him.

[FrediKanoute]

Yeah true. He tends to like the taller mids that can do it all from the conversions I've had with him.

I prefer taller mids too. Just more versitile.

[bornadog]

Final Draft preparations underway (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2013-11-19/final-draft-preparations-underway)

With a view to the future, Western Bulldogs Recruitment Manager Simon Dalrymple says every minute of preparation and research will be crucial in the lead up to Thursday’s NAB AFL Draft.

Dalrymple said bringing in players that have sound character traits as well as high talent, will be key considerations in recruiting decisions on Thursday, and into the future.

“Our coach has driven the philosophy around bringing in people of good character, along with that there needs to be a certain level of talent,” Dalrymple said.

“We look to make long term investment decisions - we are not recruiting for the short term.

“If those fundamentals are right and the player is available and he has got the right character and talent level, then we want to bring them to our Club.”

The preparation from inside the Bulldogs’ recruitment department has been meticulous, and Dalrymple said although a short list has been determined, a final decision is yet to be made.

“It’s been full on, we will be using every minute we can leading up to the draft, we haven’t made any decisions yet because the draft is next Thursday,” he said.

“So we will maximise the use of that time and hopefully make informed, astute decisions.”

[stefoid]

Macca may get some say in setting the direction, but when it comes to choosing the player Dalrymple makes that choice.

Exactly. This year he has probably just specified he wants a victorian midfielder over 192cm in height, and let the recruiters take it from there.

[mighty_west]

At the end of the day, it all sounds like we'll get a quality kid either way reading up on all their profiles, write ups etc whether its Scharenberg or Aish or Bontempelli or Billings, isn't splitting hairs between the top talent anyway?

Can't remember which player it was but was likened to Luke Shuey, he'll do.

[always right]

At the end of the day, it all sounds like we'll get a quality kid either way reading up on all their profiles, write ups etc whether its Scharenberg or Aish or Bontempelli or Billings, isn't splitting hairs between the top talent anyway?

Can't remember which player it was but was likened to Luke Shuey, he'll do.

Freeman I think. Won't happen.

[Remi Moses]

This sort of thing isn't unique though .
Essendon changed their mind an hour before one draft and picked up Heppell, when they were heavily linked to Atley.

[chef]

This sort of thing isn't unique though .
Essendon changed their mind an hour before one draft and picked up Heppell, when they were heavily linked to Atley.

Pretty sure it was heavily reported if he was available at 8 Essendon were going to grab him. Apparently Hird visited him a few times during the week prior and that's probably were the rumoured groin problems he was supposed to have had came from which helped him slip down the order.

Could be wrong though.

[Remi Moses]

Pretty sure it was heavily reported if he was available at 8 Essendon were going to grab him. Apparently Hird visited him a few times during the week prior and that's probably were the rumoured groin problems he was supposed to have had came from which helped him slip down the order.

Could be wrong though.

I think the Bombers were in for Atley.

[chef]

I think the Bombers were in for Atley.

They were expecting Heppell to be snapped up by Brisbane.

[LostDoggy]

Are we being risky here if reports are true? I know next to nothing about Bontempelli

[Remi Moses]

I know all the draftees have a "boom or bust" feel but this is just way to "bust" column for mine.
Do not get it

[LostDoggy]

At least its not a ridiculous reach like Howard.

I think he will be quality but if Sharenburg becomes Glen Jakovich good I shall cry in 6 years...

Our club has cast iron cahuna's if we take the Bont. Just hope they aren't hollow and turning to rust.

[LostDoggy]

I hope I am wrong but I am predicting years of debate over whether to play, forward or mid. Too short for permanent forward, not intense enough for back and doesn't get enough of it to play as a mid. Remind you of any other bulldog draftee now currently at his third club.

As I say, hopefully I am wrong, not sure entirely what the deal with Aish is? He may get tagged out of games, but you have to be good to deserve a tag in the first place. Will release another player from being tagged also. He's played Sanfl seniors and proven he's got what it takes in finals from all reports. We need a blue chip mid not a speculative Kouta type.

[GVGjr]

I hope I am wrong but I am predicting years of debate over whether to play, forward or mid. Too short for permanent forward, not intense enough for back and doesn't get enough of it to play as a mid. Remind you of any other bulldog draftee now currently at his third club.


He's a fraction under 194cm tall so he's not too short to be a KPP. I get what you are saying but Everitt comparisons are premature.

[LostDoggy]

I just don't care who we get anymore. I'll embrace them. Don't see a Howard in who we're likely to get.

In years to come there's going to be shoulda, woulda, coulda no doubt from clubs who should have gone him instead of of the other kid, but it won't be through lack of research. There'll be method in peoples immediate view of madness.

[LostDoggy]

And if we go Bont, we know 2009 didn't shake Dalrymples confidence he can pick the right player.

[Remi Moses]

I get the Everitt comparison, but as a selection Everitt was touted to go a lot later than he did.
Howard wasn't on anyone's radar, if I recall

[LostDoggy]

I'm still hurting from the Howard debacle and I'm getting nervous about this draft too. We need to adding class not taking a gamble. Happy to eat humble pie if it works out

[The Bulldogs Bite]

As I say, hopefully I am wrong, not sure entirely what the deal with Aish is? He may get tagged out of games, but you have to be good to deserve a tag in the first place. Will release another player from being tagged also. He's played Sanfl seniors and proven he's got what it takes in finals from all reports. We need a blue chip mid not a speculative Kouta type.

There is no guarantee Aish becomes a very good player at the top level.

Why:
- Lack of size/strength. Strength will improve once he's in the system, but he'll always be pretty lean
- Lack of pace for an outside mid. He isn't slow, but he isn't as quick as many other outside mids in the comp
- His kicking lacks depth/penetration, even though it is very accurate
- His contested ball numbers rival Cale Morton's.
- Defensive game needs work (but surely can be improved in the system)

Although it is nice he played SANFL seniors, I think people place far too much 'weight' on this. Didn't Melbourne's Trengove do the same and star? He's average at best.

Having said all that, you can't teach genuine footy smarts/talent, which Aish has in spades.

[jeemak]

I think we all need to understand that if we get a solid 200 game player, or even a 150 game player out of our first pick we've done reasonably well from this draft.

Does anyone actually think any of the kids that are available from our pick four or beyond will make a great difference to us either way, based on how varied opinions are of each of their respective abilities?

[The Pie Man]

Watching the pick me vid of MB, the way he moves reminds me of Fraser Gehrig. Not game style obviously, just the way a 190 odd cm left footer wheels onto that side.

Would love to see a bit more of how he is overhead.

[LostDoggy]

I think we all need to understand that if we get a solid 200 game player, or even a 150 game player out of our first pick we've done reasonably well from this draft.

Does anyone actually think any of the kids that are available from our pick four or beyond will make a great difference to us either way, based on how varied opinions are of each of their respective abilities?

I think Sharenberg or Billings would in terms of structure and class respectively
I think Bontempelli could if he develops as our club clearly hopes he might, add structure, flexibility and some quality. It could equally be a dang it - could've had Sharenberg.
I think Harvey or Brown could become a class heavy full or CHF backing up Campbell's potential progress.

So yeah - I feel the choices are pretty critical ones that could provide solid upside in either structure, depth or class. Don't feel the hand wringing mea culpa concerns are unjustified albeit they are probably utterly comparatively uninformed.

I want Sharenberg - it's the logical pick to me. I'll get right behind the Bont if that's what we do.

[stefoid]

He's a fraction under 194cm tall so he's not too short to be a KPP. I get what you are saying but Everitt comparisons are premature.

No burst though, and no form as a key forward. If we were going for a forward, we'd take McArthy, wouldnt we?

For pick 4 we want a mid who can drift forward and back and take marks.

[LostDoggy]

He's a fraction under 194cm tall so he's not too short to be a KPP. I get what you are saying but Everitt comparisons are premature.

Btw I have to caveat my opinion on the fact that I am not a draft watcher and don't know chocolate from you know what when it comes to drafting. It just scares the hell out me to get a Cale Morton type like the rest of us. I will back in the player we select, but damn this selection could determine whether I see a premiership in my life

[LostDoggy]

Btw I have to caveat my opinion on the fact that I am not a draft watcher and don't know chocolate from you know what when it comes to drafting. It just scares the hell out me to get a Cale Morton type like the rest of us. I will back in the player we select, but damn this selection could determine whether I see a premiership in my life

I am tipping that Macca will not pick a player that does not put his nose over the ball.
I think if we go with Bontempelli he will bring something different to our side going by his highlights and if he steps up he looks very exciting.

[bornadog]

Good Article on Bontempelli (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/nick-dal-santos-counsel-carries-weight-with-cousin-draft-hopeful-marcus-bontempelli-20131119-2xtc4.html)

[jeemak]

I think Sharenberg or Billings would in terms of structure and class respectively
I think Bontempelli could if he develops as our club clearly hopes he might, add structure, flexibility and some quality. It could equally be a dang it - could've had Sharenberg.
I think Harvey or Brown could become a class heavy full or CHF backing up Campbell's potential progress.

So yeah - I feel the choices are pretty critical ones that could provide solid upside in either structure, depth or class. Don't feel the hand wringing mea culpa concerns are unjustified albeit they are probably utterly comparatively uninformed.

I want Sharenberg - it's the logical pick to me. I'll get right behind the Bont if that's what we do.

It seems that Boyd and Kelly are one and two, and for mine I think Billings is the player that can help us the most beyond that. The rest just don't do it for me in terms of stand out attributes that will take us forward.

We could sit around and argue who's best out of them, but all of them are equally as qualified or otherwise as each other.

I want Billings because I don't think good forwards of his quality who will eventually play midfield are anything but the hardest thing to find in the draft. I've been saying all year a utility of his type is what we need......every club needs them.

Beyond Billings, it's a lucky dip.

[Scorlibo]

It seems that Boyd and Kelly are one and two, and for mine I think Billings is the player that can help us the most beyond that. The rest just don't do it for me in terms of stand out attributes that will take us forward.

We could sit around and argue who's best out of them, but all of them are equally as qualified or otherwise as each other.

I want Billings because I don't think good forwards of his quality who will eventually play midfield are anything but the hardest thing to find in the draft. I've been saying all year a utility of his type is what we need......every club needs them.

Beyond Billings, it's a lucky dip.

I tend to agree, I lean towards Bontempelli and Kolodjashnij but really I'm going to be happy with whoever we take at 4.

[ReLoad]

To me its about risk versus reward, and Bontempelli is just too much risk Vs the rewards that Aish/Scharenburg offer.

[bornadog]

It seems that Boyd and Kelly are one and two, and for mine I think Billings is the player that can help us the most beyond that. The rest just don't do it for me in terms of stand out attributes that will take us forward.

We could sit around and argue who's best out of them, but all of them are equally as qualified or otherwise as each other.

I want Billings because I don't think good forwards of his quality who will eventually play midfield are anything but the hardest thing to find in the draft. I've been saying all year a utility of his type is what we need......every club needs them.

Beyond Billings, it's a lucky dip.

I think this bloke (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-20/one-day-to-the-draft-meet-matt-scharenberg) is going to be a very good player.

Have a look at his highlights and you may change your mind: here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-20/matthew-scharenberg)

[Throughandthrough]

I think this bloke (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-20/one-day-to-the-draft-meet-matt-scharenberg) is going to be a very good player.

Have a look at his highlights and you may change your mind: here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-20/matthew-scharenberg)

Is a ripper person as well.

[The Underdog]

I think this bloke (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-20/one-day-to-the-draft-meet-matt-scharenberg) is going to be a very good player.

Have a look at his highlights and you may change your mind: here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-20/matthew-scharenberg)

Love the way he reads the game in the back half. I'd certainly be happy with him.

[LostDoggy]

Like the idea in having a taller midfielder with Bontempelli, but Scharenberg looks like he will be one damn good player.

[Go_Dogs]

Is a ripper person as well.

You'd know better than most so would be interested in your thoughts on him transitioning to the midfield at AFL level?

[jeemak]

I think this bloke (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-11-20/one-day-to-the-draft-meet-matt-scharenberg) is going to be a very good player.

Have a look at his highlights and you may change your mind: here (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-20/matthew-scharenberg)

I was a bit over the top with my comments regarding other draft choices (beyond what I think are the top three) not having standout attributes that will take us forward.

There's clearly good players available from there, and Sharenberg would compliment our side very well. He has excellent poise, and seemingly is a good kick.

From the information available though, I can't set a lot of the draftees apart from each other.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I see Scharenberg becoming one of the best from this draft class. Only reason he might not be taken top 6 is because clubs are hesitant to use such an early pick on a third tall who hasn't got proven midfield capabilities. I'm betting more than a few people will be saying "How did he slip?"

[always right]

I don't get the focus on whether he will be come a midfielder or not. To me he looks to be a defender with enormous potential and we need A-grade defenders coming through. If Billings is gone, pick him.

[LostDoggy]

I don't get the focus on whether he will be come a midfielder or not. To me he looks to be a defender with enormous potential and we need A-grade defenders coming through. If Billings is gone, pick him.

Agreed.

It's crap that every player who's not KP needs to be a midfielder in the modern game.

Recall this after Stringer was drafted last year. Natural instinctive talents as a forward, yet some were worried about his transition to midfield? Why?

[Mofra]

I don't get the focus on whether he will be come a midfielder or not. To me he looks to be a defender with enormous potential and we need A-grade defenders coming through. If Billings is gone, pick him.
Yep - any A grader in our side, regardless of position, will help us enormously. The berg looks like he's a good chance to be that good.

[kruder]

I see Scharenberg becoming one of the best from this draft class. Only reason he might not be taken top 6 is because clubs are hesitant to use such an early pick on a third tall who hasn't got proven midfield capabilities. I'm betting more than a few people will be saying "How did he slip?"

Berg, Billings and Sheed are the safe bets of the draft IMO. All will be at least B grade AFL players but still very happy with Bontempelli one of my favs.

[FrediKanoute]

Haven't seen any besides their you tube prom vid's and read their profiles etc, but I think using pick for on a boom-bust player is not wise. Yes the upside is great, but so too is the risk and is something you would typicially do at say pick 10 through 15. Reckon we could be gambling when playing a straight bat is a better option.......in my mind there is no need to gamble the pick.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Haven't seen any besides their you tube prom vid's and read their profiles etc, but I think using pick for on a boom-bust player is not wise. Yes the upside is great, but so too is the risk and is something you would typicially do at say pick 10 through 15. Reckon we could be gambling when playing a straight bat is a better option.......in my mind there is no need to gamble the pick.

The 'gamble' and 'boom or bust' terms are being overused in regards to Bontempelli. It isn't as though he is an Everitt (rated second round with worries) or Howard (hardly rated at all). He is widely considered a top ten pick and was linked to Collingwood at 6 for a while.

He is a risk and 4 is a slight reach, but there's some strong hyperbole being used.

[bulldogsman]

Someone on another forum posted a highight's video of Bontempelli. Made feel a little better about taking him. Here's the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7dvMICiI8V4

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This from another forum:



Sorry to intrude guys - but the Hawthorn Head Recruiter was on SEN, and thinks that the top 10 will go like this:

1. Boyd
2. Kelly
3. Billings
4. Aish
5. KK
6. Schaz
7. Lennon
8. McDonald
9. Salem
10. Freeman

[soupman]

This from another forum:

No Bontempelli in the top ten.

[Sedat]

The 'gamble' and 'boom or bust' terms are being overused in regards to Bontempelli. It isn't as though he is an Everitt (rated second round with worries) or Howard (hardly rated at all). He is widely considered a top ten pick and was linked to Collingwood at 6 for a while.

He is a risk and 4 is a slight reach, but there's some strong hyperbole being used.
Stringer was listed as likely pick 15-20 chance in most of last year's phantom drafts, and we ended up getting him at pick 5 - much more of a reach than Bontempelli (albeit Stringer was more of an injury-related reach).

While we're on the subject of last year's phantom drafts, Brodie Grundy was always top 10 and Hrovat was joined at the hip with Norf at pick 15 but both these guys slid down the order.

[Happy Days]

The 'gamble' and 'boom or bust' terms are being overused in regards to Bontempelli. It isn't as though he is an Everitt (rated second round with worries) or Howard (hardly rated at all). He is widely considered a top ten pick and was linked to Collingwood at 6 for a while.

He is a risk and 4 is a slight reach, but there's some strong hyperbole being used.

Literally every player is boom or bust around our pick anyway; serious questions on Billings and Aish to go inside, whether or not Scharenberg has feet, etc.

I still like Scharenberg but I'm backing Dalrymple to get it right and that Bontempelli can expand his game (if we even take him).

[Remi Moses]

Stringer was listed as likely pick 15-20 chance in most of last year's phantom drafts, and we ended up getting him at pick 5 - much more of a reach than Bontempelli (albeit Stringer was more of an injury-related reach).

While we're on the subject of last year's phantom drafts, Brodie Grundy was always top 10 and Hrovat was joined at the hip with Norf at pick 15 but both these guys slid down the order.

That's a good point . Word was The Cats were big on Stringer, and we went early.
We could afford to reach last year as we had two early picks, but this one has to be right .
MB is nowhere near the reach Everitt or Howard or even Tommy Williams .

[Remi Moses]

Literally every player is boom or bust around our pick anyway; serious questions on Billings and Aish to go inside, whether or not Scharenberg has feet, etc.

I still like Scharenberg but I'm backing Dalrymple to get it right and that Bontempelli can expand his game (if we even take him).

Think we get find Aish an inside game, if we can expand MB's game.
Personally do think we can improve both players.

[Cyberdoggie]

Slightly off topic, the AFL website has us interested in Murray Bushy Kayne Turner.

Apparently he cracks in pretty hard. Qualifies for draft by 1 day and is only 67kgs.

Seen as plenty of upside.

North also interested.

Might be our pick 60 if North don't jump on him first.

[bornadog]

Slightly off topic, the AFL website has us interested in Murray Bushy Kayne Turner.

Apparently he cracks in pretty hard. Qualifies for draft by 1 day and is only 67kgs.

Seen as plenty of upside.

North also interested.

Might be our pick 60 if North don't jump on him first.

discussion already here (http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?t=11334&page=28)

[stefoid]

Stringer was listed as likely pick 15-20 chance in most of last year's phantom drafts, and we ended up getting him at pick 5 - much more of a reach than Bontempelli (albeit Stringer was more of an injury-related reach).

While we're on the subject of last year's phantom drafts, Brodie Grundy was always top 10 and Hrovat was joined at the hip with Norf at pick 15 but both these guys slid down the order.

Stringer was listed at 10+ with the caveat - * on talent could be the best player in the draft but his injuries may cause him to slide to here.

Bontempellis caveat is a bit different.

Scharenberg sounds like he is this years Stringer.

[Pickenitup]

I have got a feeling We May go with Scharenberg just a feeling I have I Hope we do.

[boydogs]

No Bontempelli in the top ten.

My first thought when hearing we wanted Bontempelli was why didn't we downgrade pick 4 then.

[stefoid]

My first thought when hearing we wanted Bontempelli was why didn't we downgrade pick 4 then.

4 to Brisbane for 7 and 33?

[immortalmike]

4 to Brisbane for 7 and 33?

Collingwood would have picked Bontempelli at 6.

[boydogs]

4 to Brisbane for 7 and 33?

7 & Docherty might have been an option


Collingwood would have picked Bontempelli at 6.

Surely Aish or Scharenberg in his place if they did so would be palatable. But I don't think he would go top 10 if we overlooked him.

[immortalmike]

7 & Docherty might have been an option



Surely Aish or Scharenberg in his place if they did so would be palatable. But I don't think he would go top 10 if we overlooked him.

Apparently Hine was huge on him until we flagged interest. Also most journos have had him potential top 10 for weeks, including Quayle.

[LongWait]

I think you can make a case for any one of 6 or 8 players for selection 4 based on the media reports, phantom drafts and the limited vision we have access to.

Under the McCartney's we have introduced a points based ranking system to help us evaluate potential draftees and make appropriate selections. Hopefully we implement that system and select whomever it suggests we should. No point in establishing an objective system if we are going to over-ride it at the first opportunity.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

If Billings is unavailable, my choice is Aish. Not concerned about supposed lack of inside game atm. He seems best available and best suits needs. Bontempelli seems to have some great assets with his octopus arms, great vision, ball handling, kicking and can mark but still has a bit of the Everitt about him in that he doesn't have a clearly defined role, with his heght not necessarily being an asset, even being a liablilty if it slows him as a mid.
Aish I liken to a Cooney minus the turbocharge and we need that pace, class and delivery into the forward line and he is guaranteed to be 200 gamer. He is least likely to have a fatal flaw that renders him a bad choice down the track.

[stefoid]

This new phantom could help

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/game-of-thrones-phantom-draft.1041829/