Cloke is not an elite player

[Ghost Dog]

According to champion data. Comments?
It's certainly not black and white...hey!:D

[bornadog]

Would have him in my team any time. This is where stats are WRONG.

[LostDoggy]

I totally agree with them. He's a good solid forward and you'd be happy to have him. He'd be in the higher bracket of forwards but in a draft scenario you'd take sooky-lala, sooky's cousin, roughy the hawthorn cousin, sydney's brand new nose hose, and maybe sydney's draft tampering forward ahead of him? I would anyway so if elite is top 5% in your position then cloke isn't.

Very good player though.

[boydogs]

I would anyway so if elite is top 5% in your position then cloke isn't.

Elite is usually described as top 1% of a group.

[chef]

I would say he's elite.

[ratsmac]

Elite mark maybe. Definitely one of the best contested marks in the comp. As for his kicking..... His kicking keeps him from elite status for mine. When I think of lockett, dunstall and the like, I see them as elite and I don't think cloke deserves to be elite by comparison.

[Go_Dogs]

It's interesting, but based on the way Champion Data determine their elite (based on position) he is up against some quality opposition and it isn't overly surprising he wasn't included.

That being said, he's a pretty handy player and would love to have him at the Dogs.

[Remi Moses]

What nonsense .The only thing that isn't elite is his kicking.

[always right]

What nonsense .The only thing that isn't elite is his kicking.

How would you classify his kicking....poor, average, good, very good or elite?

I reckon it's average at best which in my mind rules him out of being considered an elite player. I don't think being the best mark in the competition is enough in itself to earn him elite status. As a comparison would you classify Libba as elite on the basis he is the outstanding clearance player in the competition?

I think a number of players have elite attributes without being classified as elite overall.

[ratsmac]

How would you classify his kicking....poor, average, good, very good or elite?

I reckon it's average at best which in my mind rules him out of being considered an elite player. I don't think being the best mark in the competition is enough in itself to earn him elite status. As a comparison would you classify Libba as elite on the basis he is the outstanding clearance player in the competition?

I think a number of players have elite attributes without being classified as elite overall.

Spot on.

[Remi Moses]

How would you classify his kicking....poor, average, good, very good or elite?

I reckon it's average at best which in my mind rules him out of being considered an elite player. I don't think being the best mark in the competition is enough in itself to earn him elite status. As a comparison would you classify Libba as elite on the basis he is the outstanding clearance player in the competition?

I think a number of players have elite attributes without being classified as elite overall.

You probably couldn't call him elite on the basis of his inaccuracy.
Good kick from distance and angle.
Honestly every player has a flaw or two, but I 'd say he is right up there for valuable player status.

[Ghost Dog]

It's all a bit relative isn't it? This is a bloke who had some coward, or a group, depending on what you read, attack him on the Sunshine Coast. He had to have facial surgery, so bad was the beating. In 2009, again, an utter coward fired shots through his bedroom window and sent death threats to his sister in the mail.

He overcame this, pulled himself out of his rut many forget about. Elite or not, he's a feared player and a game changer who has had some difficult challenges.
Power to him.

[Topdog]

Out of interest who is in front of him as a forward according to CD?

[Ghost Dog]

Counter article

http://www.backpagelead.com.au/index.php/afl/8762-data-does-not-a-champion-make

"Last time I checked, a computer has never watched a game of football, never experienced a tight finish to a match and seen the cream rise to the top.

This goes a long way to explaining why, for instance, Jimmy Bartel is not listed as elite."

I daresay Port has very few elite players. Westcoast has a conga line of them. Despite that, very different seasons.

[LostDoggy]

How would you classify his kicking....poor, average, good, very good or elite?

I reckon it's average at best which in my mind rules him out of being considered an elite player. I don't think being the best mark in the competition is enough in itself to earn him elite status. As a comparison would you classify Libba as elite on the basis he is the outstanding clearance player in the competition?

I think a number of players have elite attributes without being classified as elite overall.

Does that mean you don't class Nick Riewoldt as elite. His kicking at goal is also average.
Clokes field kicking is very good.

[Ghost Dog]

Does that mean you don't class Nick Riewoldt as elite. His kicking at goal is also average.
Clokes field kicking is very good.

Am I wrong? Perhaps it would be trading on past credit to say Nick is elite these days. He misses some shockers. But is this just a perception? Of course all key fowards have some bad days. Part of that is he's so buggered half the time. But Nick's head-down over-the-leg and kick-without-looking technique I find a little baffling.

[mighty_west]

He falls just short of elite due to his dodgy kicking for goal IMO.

[mighty_west]

Does that mean you don't class Nick Riewoldt as elite. His kicking at goal is also average.
Clokes field kicking is very good.

I'd have Nick slightly falling short of elite due to his kicking for goal, stage diving and crying like a little baby.

[Topdog]

If Riewoldt is not elite there are no elite forwards in the game and haven't been since Carey.

[LostDoggy]

Maybe we could get Liam Jones listed as elite…