Western Bulldogs likely to include Tom Williams in revamped forward line

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/western-bulldogs-likely-to-include-tom-williams-in-revamped-forward-line-20140130-31pps.h

The Western Bulldogs and Tom Williams have together decided he is a ''born forward'' and will use him in that role as Brendan McCartney's makeover of that area of the ground continues.

Kicking a winning score on a regular basis has been the club's main problem during McCartney's tenure, but there is growing optimism that the addition of Stewart Crameri, a resurgent Liam Jones and a healthy Williams could give the Dogs a winning mix.

Williams has played the majority of his seven-year career as a key defender, but he showed signs of coming on as a forward when the switch was made just before his latest stretch of bad injury luck.

"He's a fantastic athlete, we probably haven't seen him at his absolute best in any year that he's been out there,'' said Brett Montgomery, the Dogs' senior assistant coach.

''He loves [playing forward]. He thinks he was born to be a forward … he has all the attributes, so that's the main thing.''

Williams is training strongly but has been held back at times, with the Dogs mindful of the injury issues which have resulted in the 27-year-old playing just five games over the past two years.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Music to my ears. Always felt he would find AFL easier as a forward than a back. He won't have to worry about mainly negating an opponent rather he can celebrate what he and his attributes can do to make life hell for his opponent. He has a good work ethic and with his athleticism, he can present, present and keep presenting. Good kicking action so should be pretty reliable from the set shot. Most importantly - he believes in himself as a forward. We may not have seen the best of him yet and I'm excited.

[The Underdog]

I have no faith in him being on the field for more than 50% of the season, but definitely happy to see him go forward. Think we have enough options down back now to release him. Not sure where it leaves Campbell/2nd ruck position. Think Williams is capable of spelling in the ruck, just not a good option for him physically.

[Go_Dogs]

I like the idea of him going forward.

Another big body who has shown he can be effective on the lead in the brief stints he's played there.

[Greystache]

It'll probably be a moot point anyway as history shows he'll get injured again, but I'm happy that when he plays it'll be as a forward. He's shown a bit of ability as a forward, where as a defender he's looked well out of his depth at AFL level.

[GVGjr]

My preference is for him to play as a key defender but if they have a plan that has him working in with Crameri and Jones then it's worth a go.

[bulldogtragic]

The love / hate time of the year...

I love this time of the year, full stop. But the annual tease of the media wafting Shaun and Tommy around like they will play 22 games as a key player, is like Chrissy says, a fine line between pleasure and pain.

[jeemak]

It'll probably be a moot point anyway as history shows he'll get injured again, but I'm happy that when he plays it'll be as a forward. He's shown a bit of ability as a forward, where as a defender he's looked well out of his depth at AFL level.

Whilst in other instances showing he's perfectly capable as a defender.

Tom's problem is of course, continuity. I know you get it just as much as I do.

I really struggle to see how Tom will ever move out of the pure learning and development phase of his career. At 27 we should be seeing the best of him.

[Remi Moses]

Yep^^

[Mofra]

Tom looks great whenever get gets an extended run at AFL level - unfortunately that hasn't been too often.

[bornadog]

I have never liked the idea of Williams going to the forward line. I can't see the point if he has played the majority of games in the backline, and is still only 27 years old. Its easy to switch very young players and mold them into a position, but this to me is not the right decision. We need a good strong (sort of )CHB and we have one, why move him?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I have never liked the idea of Williams going to the forward line. I can't see the point if he has played the majority of games in the backline, and is still only 27 years old. Its easy to switch very young players and mold them into a position, but this to me is not the right decision. We need a good strong (sort of ) CHB and we have one, why move him?

Because he seems to be potentially better as a forward, better suited to it and if he becomes a better player as a forward, offers a lot more potency to the forward line and the team. I always felt he was made to play CHB to learn the game of AFL. He's done his apprenticeship and now he can start his own business.

[Mantis]

Seems there will be a fair amount of competition for a spot up forward.. amongst talls, mids & smalls.

Can't be a bad thing.

[bornadog]

Because he seems to be potentially better as a forward,

Based on what?

[lemmon]

Based on what?

Agree, I always thought he was highly underrated as a defender, can go with anyone athletically, got a fist in more often than not and is a seriously good kick of the footy coming out of the backline

[The Pie Man]

Based on what?

He did look ok as a leading CHF type pre injury last year....albeit a fleeting glimpse.

Based on that, I'd agree with the 'potential' aspect

[Mantis]

He did look ok as a leading CHF type pre injury last year....albeit a fleeting glimpse.



But wouldn't that be the role we have ear-marked for Crameri?

[Remi Moses]

Tom looks great whenever get gets an extended run at AFL level - unfortunately that hasn't been too often.

Unfortunately true. I don't think there is a piece of his anatomy he hasn't had surgery on

[bornadog]

But wouldn't that be the role we have ear-marked for Crameri?

Crameri isnot a CHF.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Based on what?

Based on the supposition that he has some creative skills, his reputation when he came to the club to be able to do Koutaesque things such as scooping the ball up on the run one handed with great agility. As a defender you are less able to try these things as your primary task is to negate. Because of Tom's inexperience with AFL, coming from a rugby background, this is even more so. Plus when caught out of position, it was obvious he became nervous as a back because he didn't have the instincts to know how to negate or read what the forward would do. He had to have his primary focus on the opponent. Whereas as a forward he can have his focus more on the ball in this situation which is easier I believe for someone like him. Also it's just a gut instinct I have.

[bornadog]

Based on the supposition that he has some creative skills, his reputation when he came to the club to be able to do Koutaesque things such as scooping the ball up on the run one handed with great agility. As a defender you are less able to try these things as your primary task is to negate. Because of Tom's inexperience with AFL, coming from a rugby background, this is even more so. Plus when caught out of position, it was obvious he became nervous as a back because he didn't have the instincts to know how to negate or read what the forward would do. He had to have his primary focus on the opponent. Whereas as a forward he can have his focus more on the ball in this situation which is easier I believe for someone like him. Also it's just a gut instinct I have.

CHF is said to be the hardest position to play on the ground. Lets hope it works out, but from what I have seen to date in his limited games in the forward line, he has a long way to go. Rocket tried him a few times in the forward line, but it wasn't exactly successful.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I understand your hard logic but I have faith. Also I remember a goal he kicked playing CHB. He either followed his man into our forward line or ran forward off his own bat. He ran around the back of the pack gathered the ball off hands and into the goals. It was an unlikely goal and he had really backed himself to do it his way. He hadn't competed for the mark front on, rather thought and ran laterally. Very successful foray into attack. It may have been his first goal in AFL.
Granted CHF is traditionally considered the most difficult position and the main reason is that they need to be good marks but very mobile. They need to present and keep presenting. This is a big strength of Williams. He has the stamina and athleticism to keep presenting.

[soupman]

I think Williams is a mediocre defender. He has played well there in the past, and there was a time there around maybe 2011 where he actually had a physical presence back there, but the vast majority of his career he has been respectable and nothing more back there.

I certainly don't think he is a better defender than Talia, and Roughead already has a bigger presence back there than he has ever had. ATM he is very similar to Mark Austin: Solid defensively and a decent athlete, but not strong enough to wrestle with the big guys, barely gets the ball and is not attacking.

Unlike Austin though Williams looks decent up forward. He is quick, can mark and make repeat efforts. He is also very hard to get past at full flight, and that makes him a very good option leading into space across half forward. He is effectively playing the role we seem to envisage for Crameri and that Jones has nowhere near the fitness to fulfil. His kicking is also excellent and our forward line has looked much more dangerous this past year when he has been in it. He also presents as another tallish, quick, fit and strong forward the opposition have to match up on after also finding suitable matchups for Grant, Stringer, Crameri, Jones and Campbell.

I'm losing faith that Williams will ever have the continuity to be considered a regular, so I would rather see us develop a permanent key defender and consider Williams a bonus forward, one who isn't expected to play every game but adds something to our forwardline when he plays instead of being a exact like for like replacement for someone like Austin in the backline.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/western-bulldogs-likely-to-include-tom-williams-in-revamped-forward-line-20140130-31pps.h

The Western Bulldogs and Tom Williams have together decided he is a ''born forward'' and will use him in that role as Brendan McCartney's makeover of that area of the ground continues.

Kicking a winning score on a regular basis has been the club's main problem during McCartney's tenure, but there is growing optimism that the addition of Stewart Crameri, a resurgent Liam Jones and a healthy Williams could give the Dogs a winning mix.

Williams has played the majority of his seven-year career as a key defender, but he showed signs of coming on as a forward when the switch was made just before his latest stretch of bad injury luck.

"He's a fantastic athlete, we probably haven't seen him at his absolute best in any year that he's been out there,'' said Brett Montgomery, the Dogs' senior assistant coach.

''He loves [playing forward]. He thinks he was born to be a forward … he has all the attributes, so that's the main thing.''

Williams is training strongly but has been held back at times, with the Dogs mindful of the injury issues which have resulted in the 27-year-old playing just five games over the past two years.


Wow... this is news??? Seriously what will the papers print next week? STOP PRESS...... Simon Beasley has played his final game!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[LostDoggy]

Like, hope he has an injury free season and kicks a bag of goals

[w3design]

I was reasonably impressed with what I have seen of Tommy W as a forward. He leads well, with repeat efforts, and as we know has plenty of pace for a guy his size. His set shot kicking is as good as any of the talls we have played up forward over recent seasons.
But it is his leading that has me most enthused. Over the last few years we have not had anyone up there that was particularly impressive on the lead on a regular basis [ since BBB at least]. Liam J and Tom C are both more short lead or pack mark types.
With Tommy W and Stew C both athletic, fast and quick on the lead, and capable and willing to provide multiple leads, I could see them helping to break up opposition defensive set ups, that our previously more static forward line allowed.
With dynamic small and medium forward types in/under and around in the form of Dal, Dickson, and perhaps Stringer, and a range of resting mids like Coons etc, I can see our forward half being far more dynamic and damaging than it has been since Jonno and company were killing opponents down in the front half.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think Williams is a mediocre defender. He has played well there in the past, and there was a time there around maybe 2011 where he actually had a physical presence back there, but the vast majority of his career he has been respectable and nothing more back there.

I certainly don't think he is a better defender than Talia, and Roughead already has a bigger presence back there than he has ever had. ATM he is very similar to Mark Austin: Solid defensively and a decent athlete, but not strong enough to wrestle with the big guys, barely gets the ball and is not attacking.

Unlike Austin though Williams looks decent up forward. He is quick, can mark and make repeat efforts. He is also very hard to get past at full flight, and that makes him a very good option leading into space across half forward. He is effectively playing the role we seem to envisage for Crameri and that Jones has nowhere near the fitness to fulfil. His kicking is also excellent and our forward line has looked much more dangerous this past year when he has been in it. He also presents as another tallish, quick, fit and strong forward the opposition have to match up on after also finding suitable matchups for Grant, Stringer, Crameri, Jones and Campbell.

I'm losing faith that Williams will ever have the continuity to be considered a regular, so I would rather see us develop a permanent key defender and consider Williams a bonus forward, one who isn't expected to play every game but adds something to our forwardline when he plays instead of being a exact like for like replacement for someone like Austin in the backline.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Agree with every word.

Williams looks like a natural forward, which is actually what we earmarked him for upon first drafting him. He was always going to start as a CHB, but it was said that he had a future as a CHF. He's going to get that opportunity now, IF his body holds up, which is a tall ask. I do think he would be able to form a great partnership with the likes of Crameri and Campbell though.

It leaves Jones very vulnerable IMO. Williams' endurance is far superior, his disposal is better and his game sense/hard leading patterns are also a long way ahead of Jones'. He also provides flexibility which every side needs. Campbell being able to play ruck/forward and Williams forward/back is a nice advantage.

I like Jones but if our key talls are all fit, he could struggle IMO.

[Ghost Dog]

I just can't believe how easily his shoulder came out in Darwin. Or the way they popped out, diving at the ball the last time at Etihad. It had me agahst each time I saw the replay. I wish him all the best, and don't want to have a negative attitude towards a players development, but every time he goes for the ball I worry. Would love him to just get through a season, playing solid but not flashy footy, in a supporting role to Liam Jones. Last time the logic was, a forward role is the best place to protect his shoulders. What now?

[The Pie Man]

But wouldn't that be the role we have ear-marked for Crameri?

You'd think so - doesn't hurt to have some competition for a spot I suppose

If seen as like for like, obviously Crameri is the first option.

I'm still curious how we'll use Campbell this year - maybe Williams will provide competition for Jones instead, which I wouldn't mind. Think Liam can have a big year for us, but a bit of positive pressure wouldn't hurt.

[1eyedog]

I have never liked the idea of Williams going to the forward line. I can't see the point if he has played the majority of games in the backline, and is still only 27 years old. Its easy to switch very young players and mold them into a position, but this to me is not the right decision. We need a good strong (sort of )CHB and we have one, why move him?

There are so many examples of mature players moving KP spots over the course of the last 20 years it's not funny. Two of the more well known names are C. Grant forward to back and Neitz back to forward halfway through their careers. The only thing I see holding Williams' back from playing forward is his body as others have discussed above. Williams has been a serviceable CHB at times but he's never really been on the park to really cement the position or tell all of us supporters that yes that is his position and he should stay there. Long term, we have a far better prospect in Talia being able to hold down a KP backed up very capably by Roughie.

[Mofra]

There are so many examples of mature players moving KP spots over the course of the last 20 years it's not funny. Two of the more well known names are C. Grant forward to back and Neitz back to forward halfway through their careers.
Jarrad Roughead played defence early in his career, and Fraser Gehrig was FB at WCE before becoming a FF at the Saints.
Even last season people were lauding Reid's stints up forward with Collingwood and Carlisle swapping with Hurley. It can be done

[Twodogs]

Cowboy Neale. He could play at both ends.

[Greystache]

Alistair Lynch is a good example.

[Bulldog4life]

Teddy was the best.

[1eyedog]

Jarrad Roughead played defence early in his career, and Fraser Gehrig was FB at WCE before becoming a FF at the Saints.
Even last season people were lauding Reid's stints up forward with Collingwood and Carlisle swapping with Hurley. It can be done

Exactly. Harry Taylor showed he can be a dangerous forward last season. The issue I have with Williams playing forward is not necessarily his ability to adapt or read the flight of the ball etc. it's his ability to mark it. Being big and a focal point does not necessarily mean you will clunk it e.g. Will Minson. I suppose Williams playing forward may decoy for others e.g. Jones.

[bornadog]

Yep agree they are all great examples, but also those examples are of either champion footballers, or more than handy players.

Our Tom has shown some ability in the backline, but as we know injury gets in the way. Lets hope whatever role the coach wants him to play, he can stay on the park and acquit himself as per the coaches instructions.