Some context on our age

[Webby]

It struck me against Melbourne today that we fielded a bloody young team!
The side WBFC fielded was as young as I can remember. Can anyone remember a younger one?
For me, that's the most pleasing aspect of the win.

The side we fielded today contained:

11 players above the age of 23..
12 players under 23..
6 of whom are still under 21..

For some context, the side that GWS fielded against Brisbane last week contained just 14 players under 23 years of age.

I haven't got the figure in average age, but it must be an average of about 5 years below our 2010 side.
Add to that the fact that Bontempelli, Macrae, Libba, Stringer, Hunter, Roberts, Dahlhaus, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Darley, and Smith all look promising, and we're beginning to turn the corner.

In two years time we'll have a list with a core coming into maturity. That'll have a knock-on effect of free agents then being attracted to us. For that reason, it's almost worthwhile developing a list with such a strong core, yet with some clear, easily identifiable missing pieces - then filling them with 2-3 free agents when time is right.

Remember when Aker was a virtual free agent back in 2006? And he chose little old us over nearly a dozen other clubs? It was because he thought we were pretty close as an emerging contender. I really am beginning to see a future, now. I think that in a couple of years, an A-grade key forward and/or outside midfielder might be looking at us and thinking "You know what, I think I'd be perfect for that club!"

So the logic of building a team slowly from the inside out (although leaving us pushing shit up hill at times - as a result of clear deficiencies) doesn't seem such a bad idea. Results are modest, yet a core list IS developing. When it's ready, I think we can possibly shop for the final 2-3 pieces.

I'd be interested to know people's thoughts?

[GVGjr]

A good piece of analysis Webby.

After a loss there is typically a yell from the supporters to "play the Kids" but from my perspective we have been playing all year anyway. Today would have been one of the younger lists I would think but we are getting a good balance of young players racking up senior experience.

We have a lot of players coming through at this moment. With the 2012 crop of Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat and Hunter plus rookie promotions in Johannisen and Campbell all coming through it's given us a great base. Add the 2013 group of Bontempelli, Crameri and Honeychurch to that list as well.

Lets not forget Wallis, Liberatore from 2010, Smith, Talia and the promoted rookie in Dahlhaus from 2011 and you should get the feel that this group can all come through at the same time. I've left a few names off as well.

We need a key forward and a key defender plus a pacy midfielder or two but we do have a great mixture of players.

Exciting times.

[Webby]

The other positive for me that comes out of this weekend is that, despite the knock-on effect that Stringer, Honeychurch, Hunter and Roberts' elevation (for a glut of injuries & a suspension) naturally had on our reserves, they still beat a very strong, in-form contender (Nth Ballarat).

I really did expect a beating down at Geelong, so that's a great sign that we go very deep as a club.

That leads me to another point about the standard of player we're able to attract as a VFL club. Whereas Essendon and Richmond seem to have struggled, a good number of players seem to have been attracted to Footscray. Probably because they can see a clear career path. McCartney's grass-roots links and our history of rookie list promotions (ie. Boyd, Dahlhaus, Picken, Morris, Austin, JJ etc) demonstrates that they will be given opportunities if they perform... Maybe more so than at other clubs.

The other thing is that the club have a link to the Uni and some great facilities. That, for me is a massive tick for the club.

Finally, I don't know if betting agencies run odds in VFL, But, after this weekend, we'd have to be shortening towards favourites for the VFL flag..

It'd be our third in a row, too! A "three-peat" (1923, 1924, 2014!)

[Ozza]

What I'm finding most encouraging, is that really young players on our list are playing important roles - and so many of the under 23s look highly probable of being good long term players.

Liberatore, Dahlhaus, Stringer, Macrae, Bontempelli, Roughead - are our really high end talent.
Hrovat, Hunter, Johannisen, Wallis, Talia, Campbell, Smith - on that next tier, and;
Tutt, Prudden, Darley, Honeychurch, Roberts, Jong - amongst those we still need to find out a bit more about - but each (barring Prudden so far) have had some good moments at AFL level.

[chef]

The great thing is these kids are already influencing games. Imagine what they are going to be like with 100plus games under their belts.

[Cyberdoggie]

Finally, I don't know if betting agencies run odds in VFL, But, after this weekend, we'd have to be shortening towards favourites for the VFL flag..

It'd be our third in a row, too! A "three-peat" (1923, 1924, 2014!)

Don't forget that the VFL finals will be played in September, and unless the Western Bulldogs go undefeated for the remainder of the season, and north and GC crash horribly, our senior side will be on vacation.

We saw last year with Williamstown, a small handful of Bulldogs listed players remained available at finals time. So I would assume a large majority of the list will be unavailable. You wouldn't think they would risk playing Bonti in a VFL game.

[jeemak]

Don't forget that the VFL finals will be played in September, and unless the Western Bulldogs go undefeated for the remainder of the season, and north and GC crash horribly, our senior side will be on vacation.

We saw last year with Williamstown, a small handful of Bulldogs listed players remained available at finals time. So I would assume a large majority of the list will be unavailable. You wouldn't think they would risk playing Bonti in a VFL game.

If Bonts was eligible to play VFL finals I'd be extremely pissed if he didn't play, assuming he was physically OK to do so.

It would be an excellent experience for any of our young players who qualified to play.

[Webby]

You wouldn't think they would risk playing Bonti in a VFL game.

On the contrary, I think that some finals experience (albeit at VFL level) would be invaluable to a lot of our younger blokes. I think guys like Dane Swan and Bick Maxwell took a lot out if Willy's 2003 flag. A player can injure himself just as easily in the AFL or even a practice match as in VFL finals. The pros way outweigh the cons, IMO.

[Remi Moses]

Geelong's 02 VFL flag contained the likes of Ablett and Bartel, so I'd be in the side of play all our eligible kids in the VFL finals.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

If Bonts was eligible to play VFL finals I'd be extremely pissed if he didn't play, assuming he was physically OK to do so.

It would be an excellent experience for any of our young players who qualified to play.
Also to add to the above, if players like Bonts, Smith, Wallis etc are avaibilbe I feel they would want to play. The board would want the best team out too to ensure it favours the sponsors and dicission to venture down this road.

Should we start working on a WOOF tee shirt for the finals?

[Webby]

Also to add to the above, if players like Bonts, Smith, Wallis etc are avaibilbe I feel they would want to play. The board would want the best team out too to ensure it favours the sponsors and dicission to venture down this road.

Should we start working on a WOOF tee shirt for the finals?

I think that we, more than any other AFL club, would get a real kick out of a VFL Grand Final. Firstly, we've been success starved and secondly, a VFL finals run is a real opportunity for us to connect with our grass roots support for a few weeks. The local area of Footscray has changed a lot over the last 15-20 years and will continue to do so. So the Footscray side going deep is a real opportunity. Can't harm our 2015 membership numbers, either.

[bornadog]

I think that we, more than any other AFL club, would get a real kick out of a VFL Grand Final. Firstly, we've been success starved and secondly, a VFL finals run is a real opportunity for us to connect with our grass roots support for a few weeks. The local area of Footscray has changed a lot over the last 15-20 years and will continue to do so. So the Footscray side going deep is a real opportunity. Can't harm our 2015 membership numbers, either.

A final at WO would be the cream.

[jeemak]

Don't they play all finals at Port Melbourne's home ground?

[Webby]

Don't they play all finals at Port Melbourne's home ground?

Prelims, I'm pretty sure, yes. However earlier finals, I think, are played at some home grounds. I'd think that, without fencing, we'd be struggling to get the nod to host. It'd be nice, though!

[bornadog]

Don't they play all finals at Port Melbourne's home ground?

Yeah I know, just wishful thinking

[westdog54]

I think that we, more than any other AFL club, would get a real kick out of a VFL Grand Final. Firstly, we've been success starved and secondly, a VFL finals run is a real opportunity for us to connect with our grass roots support for a few weeks. The local area of Footscray has changed a lot over the last 15-20 years and will continue to do so. So the Footscray side going deep is a real opportunity. Can't harm our 2015 membership numbers, either.

What better way to sell the future than to be able to say that our 'young people' drove us to A VFL flag in our first season. At it full strength I say.

[azabob]

What better way to sell the future than to be able to say that our 'young people' drove us to A VFL flag in our first season. At it full strength I say.

Not only to the public, but to each player as well.

[Webby]

Just getting back to our young age and where we're at, a point was made by a caller on SEN today that North are 2-3 top liners short of being able to contend because, basically, the club were never "brave enough" to bottom out.

The guy was a North supporter. He also made the point, in fairness, that his club probably don't have the finances to afford to bottom out. Therefore never really winding back and building from a proper run up.

Nathan Thompson was filling in for Schwartz and said (sincerely) "yeah that's why they probably signed blokes like me"... My mind turned to Sav Rocca, Jonathan Hay, Jade Rawlings etc.

North clearly bottled it, to an extent.

My take away from that is that, it takes some balls to make a conscious effort to set yourself 5-6 years to build a strong list from scratch. McCartney was signed as a list development coach. A guy who's 'expertise' was said to be in developing "good young men" into "good young players."

To be fair to him, from what I'm seeing both at VFL level and increasingly at AFL level, the club is on a clear path. Clubs like North, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, West Coast clearly don't have that clarity at the moment. They're caught in no man's land.

I'd also rather be in our shoes than Brisbane, Sht Kilda, Melbourne.... Maybe even Geelong, Collingwood and Adelaide, to be honest... So from that point of view, I think we're in a good space... That's if we've got the bottle to stick to the path over the next three years. We're on the up, now.

[josie]

Love your posts Webby. Let's make sure as WOOF'ers we hold the faith when we lose or falter, which is inevitable. And let's hope the Club continues to be patient whilst the rebuild continues. And lastly let's wait with abated breath for that power forward and a few classy disposal speedsters.

[doggies ftw]

I'm all for going hard for a VFL flag if we find ourself in that position. Would feel pretty bad for the guys who have played most of the year but miss out though.

[Remi Moses]

The interesting thing is that our young guys are getting tagged.
Obviously they have to work their way through it, but saying that it's best to learn early.

[boydogs]

Did a quick chart up showing the year of birth of the players on the senior list. Our window is probably 2016-2019 when the guys born 91-94 are at their peak

http://puu.sh/9QHVX/bd1c75a755.png

Murphy 82
Giansiracusa 82
Boyd 82
Morris 82
Goodes 84
Minson 85
Cooney 85
Picken 86
Williams 86
Griffen 86
Dickson 87
Higgins 88
Crameri 88
Wood 89
Grant 89
Fuller 90
Roughead 90
Cordy 90
Campbell 91
Tutt 91
Stevens 91
Howard 91
Jones 91
Johannisen 92
Liberatore 92
Dahlhaus 92
Wallis 92
Young 92
Roberts 93
Talia 93
Smith 93
Darley 93
Pearce 93
Macrae 94
Prudden 94
Hrovat 94
Hunter 94
Stringer 94
Honeychurch 95
Bontempelli 95

[Webby]

Did a quick chart up showing the year of birth of the players on the senior list. Our window is probably 2016-2019 when the guys born 91-94 are at their peak

Yeah I had a similar look a few months back and I believe there's a line to be drawn under Dickson's name. Anyone north of that isn't going to be around for our window (which I believe will be open a year later in 2017.) at least certainly not the duration of that window.

If we draft a gun with our top 5 pick this year, then get Cordy on F/S and another one or two decent kids (perhaps Jayden Foster who kicked another impressive 3 goals in the wet on the weekend), we will have a very, very good, young list. If we were to consider a trade for a player north of the Dickson line, it might be even stronger..

Then, as the world can see us entering that window, we're suddenly a FA magnet with some cap space. That way, very, very late in the process, we can selectively fill any obvious gaps.

We're entering some better times.

[LostDoggy]

If we draft a gun with our top 5 pick this year, then get Cordy on F/S and another one or two decent kids (perhaps Jayden Foster who kicked another impressive 3 goals in the wet on the weekend), we will have a very, very good, young list. If we were to consider a trade for a player north of the Dickson line, it might be even stronger..

Then, as the world can see us entering that window, we're suddenly a FA magnet with some cap space. That way, very, very late in the process, we can selectively fill any obvious gaps.

We're entering some better times.

I'm hoping our form (now til the end of the season) doesn't warrant us getting a top 5 pick.

[LostDoggy]

duplication - sorry

[1eyedog]

Yeah I had a similar look a few months back and I believe there's a line to be drawn under Dickson's name. Anyone north of that isn't going to be around for our window (which I believe will be open a year later in 2017.) at least certainly not the duration of that window.

If we draft a gun with our top 5 pick this year, then get Cordy on F/S and another one or two decent kids (perhaps Jayden Foster who kicked another impressive 3 goals in the wet on the weekend), we will have a very, very good, young list. If we were to consider a trade for a player north of the Dickson line, it might be even stronger..

Then, as the world can see us entering that window, we're suddenly a FA magnet with some cap space. That way, very, very late in the process, we can selectively fill any obvious gaps.

We're entering some better times.

We are in for better times but playing Devil's advocate we will be competing for a flag against both GWS and GC at roughly the same time against a list of top draft picks. Hopefully by that time both franchises thin out somewhat and are reduced to nothing more than a few champions in a team rather than a very close knit strong team which is what I hope we'll become. I don't need a dynasty but a Grand Final appearance would be bloody nice before I die.

[LostDoggy]

We are in for better times but playing Devil's advocate we will be competing for a flag against both GWS and GC at roughly the same time against a list of top draft picks. Hopefully by that time both franchises thin out somewhat and are reduced to nothing more than a few champions in a team rather than a very close knit strong team which is what I hope we'll become. I don't need a dynasty but a Grand Final appearance would be bloody nice before I die.

Check out the concessions they got in terms of salary caps and player list - particulary GWS. GWS doesn't come anywhere close to the field until 2019.




Expanded list and increased salary cap:
Team GWS will also have an expanded list size and TPP allowance in the club’s initial time in the competition, through to 2019, as follows:

2012 - 44-50 senior list, nine rookies with $640,000 - $1m TPP extra allowance;
2013 - 44-50 senior list, nine rookies with $640,000 - $1m TPP extra allowance;
2014 - 44-50 senior list, nine rookies with $640,000 - $1m TPP extra allowance;
2015 - 44-48 senior list, nine rookies with $640k - $880k TPP extra allowance;
2016 - 42-46 senior list, nine rookies with $520k - $760k TPP extra allowance;
2017 - 40-44 senior list, nine rookies with $400k - $640k TPP extra allowance;
2018 - 38-42 senior list, nine rookies with $200k - $520k TPP extra allowance;
2019 - 38 senior list, nine rookies in line with other AFL clubs.

[boydogs]

the Dickson line

I wouldn't rule Minson or Cooney out from being part of another top 4 side