Shaun Higgins - Liam Jones - Easton Wood - Will they, or won't they?

[azabob]

As we all know Shaun Higgins, Liam Jones and Easton Wood are still out of contract.

In my view it is more likely that all three will leave, than all three will stay.

Due to the time of year - mid September I am getting worried the likelihood of them all leaving is getting higher and higher by the day.

I understand Liam Jones is still playing VFL footy, but it appears with each game he play his perceived value is increasing even though it is only VFL. Which will increase the interest level of opposition clubs more and more.

Easton Wood had his best season yet and really grew into the third defender role and majority of this board thought he had a very good season - yet according to the best and fairest he had on ok year.

Shaun Higgins circumstances are well documented, turning 27 next year is looking for a deal to take him into his 30's and with his injury history you cannot blame him.

All three players from a list balance perspective and age profile are required.

However, based on form, consistency, injury or a combination for whatever reason all three have struggled to cement spots in the starting 18 or best 22.

Do we increase our offer to Liam Jones? Is it about money for him or is it about playing senior AFL footy?

Do we increase our term to Shaun Higgins?

I honestly don't know what the situation is with Easton Wood, perhaps GWS are still in his ear? Has been overpaid V output due to our desire to sign him up when rumours were rife that GWS would sign him as an un-contracted free agent and now we wish to decrease his pay?

Who out the three is the priority to sign and who can we afford to let go?

[LostDoggy]

I don't know what Eastons' problem would be. As you say, had a consistent season. Showed improvement. Was relatively injury-free compared to other seasons where he's had soft tissue problems. From Camperdown. Good upbringing. Why the hell would he want to go to GWS - if that's who's in his ear?

[F'scary]

Wood is the only keeper of the three. If we can get decent draft pick compos/trades for the other two, take them. 2 early to mid second rounders would be fine.

I have given up on Jones and don't rate Higgins even though he had a reasonable season for us this year. I am tired of the "one more year" calls I hear for their retention. Our list is more clogged than the s-bend at a Pizza Hut.

[azabob]

GWS would have money in the cap. They could possibly also offering Wood the promise of majority of time in the midfield which may be appealing.

[azabob]

Wood is the only keeper of the three. If we can get decent draft pick compos/trades for the other two, take them. 2 early to mid second rounders would be fine.

I have given up on Jones and don't rate Higgins even though he had a reasonable season for us this year. I am tired of the "one more year" calls I hear for their retention. Our list is more clogged than the s-bend at a Pizza Hut.

Would you prefer to sign Jones above what we are paying him or let him walk into the pre season draft?

[LostDoggy]

You get the feeling Wood is going to be used to get our first rounder a couple of places higher to secure Wright.

I still think Jones will stay. No evidence to back that up just a guess.

Higgins was gone 3 months ago.

[Remi Moses]

Higgins Gone ( the offers he's getting are bordering on silly)
Wood ( might be on to something re up the draft order.)
Gotta feeling now that Frawley's going to get a godfather offer from Freo, and hence Melbourne getting a ridiculous priority.
Love Wood's run , but I worry about his decision making.
As for Jones I've given up, as after 5 years of constant tease I've moved on .

[LostDoggy]

You get the feeling Wood is going to be used to get our first rounder a couple of places higher to secure Wright.

I still think Jones will stay. No evidence to back that up just a guess.

Higgins was gone 3 months ago.

Would be quite a loss losing Easton, if that ends up being true I hope who pulls the trigger knows what they are doing.

Jones I'm a bit 'meh' with he really should've come on by now.

When or if it gets confirmed, I'll be pissed at Higgins if he walks regardless of the reasons. As far as I'm concerned he has the opportunity to repay the club for the years of waiting for him to be fit.

[Remi Moses]

I don't know what Eastons' problem would be. As you say, had a consistent season. Showed improvement. Was relatively injury-free compared to other seasons where he's had soft tissue problems. From Camperdown. Good upbringing. Why the hell would he want to go to GWS - if that's who's in his ear?
Might be Wood for Jacksh

[azabob]

You get the feeling Wood is going to be used to get our first rounder a couple of places higher to secure Wright.

I still think Jones will stay. No evidence to back that up just a guess.

Higgins was gone 3 months ago.

Interesting take on wood, something I didn't even contemplate.

[Sedat]

I would be surprised if GWS is promising more midfield time to Wood. He is far too low a possession getter to make it in the coal face. I hope he stays with us and that he continues to play off half back.

I also hope Jones stays with us. We can't be giving away the only key forward on our list who can actually impact the aerial contest.

Hope Higgins is offered a super deal and takes it.

[soupman]

Really hope we keep Wood. ATM we only have two defenders who I am confident are definite AFL level players for the next 5+ years, and he is one of them.

I think Higgins is much more easily replaceable and we would be fairly compensated for.

I am really keen to keep Jones, he is very talented and could excel if we can bring in any other tall target.

[F'scary]

Would you prefer to sign Jones above what we are paying him or let him walk into the pre season draft?

I don't see why we can't get a trade. If I recall correctly, it is actually not often that a player walks and puts himself into the preseason draft.

[Maddog37]

I would prefer to keep Wood and Jones. Is it possible that some signings are being held up due to Higgins and once he decides we may see a domino effect?

[Mofra]

Wood is priority no 1 for me.

I'd like to keep Jones but I think he'll be gone

[always right]

Would be very disappointed to lose Wood. Regardless of his B&F result I loved watching him this year. Just looked like he belonged.

I'm in the 'give Jones one more year' camp. Would be shattered if he became a success at another club when we are crying out for a key forward. Not fussed about Higgins leaving.

[bornadog]

Would be very disappointed to lose Wood. Regardless of his B&F result I loved watching him this year. Just looked like he belonged.

I'm in the 'give Jones one more year' camp. Would be shattered if he became a success at another club when we are crying out for a key forward. Not fussed about Higgins leaving.

I agree with this although I prefer to keep Higgins, but if he leaves, I am not that worried either. I hate to lose a KPP and I am still pissed off seeing Lake play so well at the Hawks.

[JohnGentStand]

I'd prefer to keep all three.
Higgins is finally injury free and may finally get some continuity.
Similar sentiment for Wood. We must keep him.
As for Jones, we all know he is not a #1 Banana. He will still make a good 2 or 3. Maturity will make him.
Glass half full for mine.

[Ozza]

I'd also like to keep all three.

However, I think the club has put a sensible/responsible position together on Higgins, in that we would like to keep him and have demonstrated this by offering 2 years. But 4 years is not only risky with a player of his injury history - but I don't think Higgins has made himself essential enough to the team - to have earned a 4 year deal.

[w3design]

I believe we will keep all 3.

i am not fussed either way but if they are going need maximum value to get at least 3 good quality b grade KPP's on the list

[LostDoggy]

I don't see why we can't get a trade. If I recall correctly, it is actually not often that a player walks and puts himself into the preseason draft.

What trade value would Jones have? Playing him the last half in the Seconds is not really increasing his value.

[F'scary]

What trade value would Jones have? Playing him the last half in the Seconds is not really increasing his value.

Shop him around and see what's on offer. That will help establish his market value. If he doesn't take our offer based on what others are prepared to trade for him, then he can walk to the preseason and get a paltry offer there from someone who takes him as an afterthought.

Apologies to his supporters but I think his last 3 years will just keep on repeating ad nauseum.

[LostDoggy]

Shop him around and see what's on offer. That will help establish his market value. If he doesn't take our offer based on what others are prepared to trade for him, then he can walk to the preseason and get a paltry offer there from someone who takes him as an afterthought.

Apologies to his supporters but I think his last 3 years will just keep on repeating ad nauseum.


I'm not an overly big fan of him, but I can't see a win for us if he leaves. Trade him and we won't get anything let's face it he couldn't get a game in a team screaming for his type so another team isn't going to pay overs. He walks and we lose. I say we persist with him give him what he wants to a certain extent and keep it all performance based. If he wants more coin then make him work for it.

I'm against shopping him around, we can only lose.

[Bulldog4life]

Shop him around and see what's on offer. That will help establish his market value. If he doesn't take our offer based on what others are prepared to trade for him, then he can walk to the preseason and get a paltry offer there from someone who takes him as an afterthought.

Apologies to his supporters but I think his last 3 years will just keep on repeating ad nauseum.

He might just do that. His father Bob Jones played for St.Kilda.

[F'scary]

I'm not an overly big fan of him, but I can't see a win for us if he leaves. Trade him and we won't get anything let's face it he couldn't get a game in a team screaming for his type so another team isn't going to pay overs. He walks and we lose. I say we persist with him give him what he wants to a certain extent and keep it all performance based. If he wants more coin then make him work for it.

I'm against shopping him around, we can only lose.

Well, it would open up a spot on the list for another recruit. As I have said, I have given up on Jones and a few others who have had plenty of chances but can't establish themselves at AFL level. Your comment "he couldn't get a game in a team screaming for his type..." says it all. Enough years of frustration, turn the list over.

[chef]

He might just do that. His father Bob Jones played for St.Kilda.

If it stops the Saints from taking a tall with their first National draft pick that may not be such a bad thing(Jones walking to the PSD that is).

[Bulldog4life]

If it stops the Saints from taking a tall with their first National draft pick that may not be such a bad thing(Jones walking to the PSD that is).

Personally I prefer him to stay but another Club might have got in his ear already.

[DISHLICKERS]

Personally I prefer him to stay but another Club might have got in his ear already.

Clubs not club

[Maddog37]

Which clubs?

[DISHLICKERS]

Which clubs?

Brisbane and one more but don't know who.

[chef]

Personally I prefer him to stay but another Club might have got in his ear already.

If it allows us to get a McCartin or Wright I don't mind him leaving.

[Rance Fan]

If Jones goes Ill spew up!
I can just see him starring at another club if leaves.
We need to back him in, and work him hard

[Webby]

If Jones goes Ill spew up!
I can just see him starring at another club if leaves.
We need to back him in, and work him hard

I remember thinking Ilija Grgic would star when he left for West Coast and Andrejs Everitt when he left for Sydney. Doesn't always happen that way. If we can trade up, go for it. Particularly if he's a sook who'll be a negative presence. (I stress IF).

[Remi Moses]

If Jones goes Ill spew up!
I can just see him starring at another club if leaves.
We need to back him in, and work him hard

They've backed Liam in for the last 5 years.
The guy isn't fit enough and just doesn't get it .

[BulldogBelle]

Jones is a good player and a tall forward which we need. He's just so frustratingly inconsistent!!! I'm assuming that his long stints in the VFL were in order for him to develop the ability to perform week in and week out. I'm confident the coaching staff are handling him with their eyes firmly on that period when our premiership window begins to open, not next year.
Higgins too should stay. His value will go up significantly when Boyd, Murphy and Cooney have gone.
Easton Wood could be great, but just isn't. Trade.

[bornadog]

They've backed Liam in for the last 5 years.
The guy isn't fit enough and just doesn't get it .

How do you know this? Preseason he did the Arizona trip to try and build his fitness, so I think he is trying to increase his stamina and strength.

[bulldogtragic]

How do you know this? Preseason he did the Arizona trip to try and build his fitness, so I think he is trying to increase his stamina and strength.
Maybe his Vo2 is crap? I don't think its work rate side of fitness, it's doing the right things consistently from minute to minute, let alone quarter to quarter or game to game.

[Remi Moses]

How do you know this? Preseason he did the Arizona trip to try and build his fitness, so I think he is trying to increase his stamina and strength.

He might be trying, but it's not working.
He hasn't got a tank to play as a modern day forward.
I'll leave it at that because I can't be bothered going to and fro

[BulldogBelle]

In Liam Jones best 3 games of 2014 he kicked 10 goals and averaged 14 possessions( 8 kicks, 6 hand balls) and 5 marks. That's good figures for a key forward. His worst is terrible, but he has only played 66 games. He has a long way to go but when he is at his peak (aged 26-29: still 3 years away) he will be a great player. I'd prefer it was with us.

[Rance Fan]

In Liam Jones best 3 games of 2014 he kicked 10 goals and averaged 14 possessions( 8 kicks, 6 hand balls) and 5 marks. That's good figures for a key forward. His worst is terrible, but he has only played 66 games. He has a long way to go but when he is at his peak (aged 26-29: still 3 years away) he will be a great player. I'd prefer it was with us.
Agree!

[1eyedog]

As for Jones well some of the pack marks he took in Footscray's win over Willy were just - wow! He really held Willy up single - handedly in the last quarter and he is way too good for VFL football.

You don't just throw away a player who can do that, especially when you only have one of them.

[Murphy'sLore]

Liam was really stunning in the final quarter that day. He looked almost, dare I say it, Bonti-esque.

I would be sorry to see him go.

[LostDoggy]

As for Jones well some of the pack marks he took in Footscray's win over Willy were just - wow! You don't just throw away a player who can do that, especially when you only have one of them.

Tend to agree. What is the lesser of two evils, having him on our list and under performing for another 2 years before trading, de-listing or watching him move to another club for bugger all compo and do a Schultz, Hawkins style transformation?

From videos I've seen, etc, he still treats the whole thing as a bit of a joke and seems a bit immature. If we can get him the right mentor and bash this out of him, we all know his potential.

[bornadog]

As for Jones well some of the pack marks he took in Footscray's win over Willy were just - wow! He really held Willy up single - handedly in the last quarter and he is way too good for VFL football.

You don't just throw away a player who can do that, especially when you only have one of them.

He was pretty good against Port as well, charging at the ball in a get out of my way manner. Could easily have kicked 6 after missing some easy ones.

I hate the way we tried to use him as a second ruck during the year - just took him away from the position he is playing and he lost momentum several times.

[mighty_west]

He was pretty good against Port as well, charging at the ball in a get out of my way manner. Could easily have kicked 6 after missing some easy ones.

I hate the way we tried to use him as a second ruck during the year - just took him away from the position he is playing and he lost momentum several times.

I would MUCH prefer him being thrown on the middle when things just aren't going his way and looks like he's in no nans land than just keep him there, there is nothing wrong with trying to get players back into the game, especially one game he had, what, one possie?

[bornadog]

I would MUCH prefer him being thrown on the middle when things just aren't going his way and looks like he's in no nans land than just keep him there, there is nothing wrong with trying to get players back into the game, especially one game he had, what, one possie?

I agree, but not rucking. I prefer him up the ground anyway, not deep in the forward line.

[mighty_west]

I agree, but not rucking. I prefer him up the ground anyway, not deep in the forward line.

I don't mind him rucking, although I've been wanting him to play some time down back for a few seasons now to help develop his game, but the rucking will actually make him contest right where the action is to one, get him in the game and two, help with his agression crashing into ruckmen and expecting second efforts when ball hits the ground (Huddo style).

[BulldogBelle]

I would MUCH prefer him being thrown on the middle when things just aren't going his way and looks like he's in no nans land than just keep him there, there is nothing wrong with trying to get players back into the game, especially one game he had, what, one possie?
I disagree here. Most of the top teams play 2 genuine ruckmen and we should be following that trend. I want him to develop but that seems too much like developing an individual at the expense of developing the team. This is why he is playing at Footscray. When he is clearly above VFL standard (which he is in patches) week in/week out he should be right to come in and stay in. Develop him correctly and will be a very important piece of the puzzle when we contend for a premiership.

[wimberga]

I personally think that despite his talents, he can't be relied upon to even have an impact at all. Thats the big issue - a lot of games it feels like we are 1 man down if he is on the field but not touching it.

If he wants to go, then lets try and find him a home where he wants to go and get compensated in return.

If he wants to stay, then he needs to start having greater impact and develop the way the coach and club want him to.

[mighty_west]

I disagree here. Most of the top teams play 2 genuine ruckmen and we should be following that trend. I want him to develop but that seems too much like developing an individual at the expense of developing the team. This is why he is playing at Footscray. When he is clearly above VFL standard (which he is in patches) week in/week out he should be right to come in and stay in. Develop him correctly and will be a very important piece of the puzzle when we contend for a premiership.

I'm not saying picking him as a second ruck option, I'm talking about mixing his game up when things aren't going his way, and I have no issues with him being played in the middle IF required, would much prefer try something before subbing him off whilst being stagnant in tbe forward line.

I'm a actually a Jones fan, and his good is good enough, those few 4 goal games, that one v Geelong where he was flying for everything in the forward line, but as discussed a million times that gap between good and bad, I'm on the fence with what to do with Liam, if we can find an upgrade during trade week, by all means but I'd hate to lose him with nothing else coming in (key fwd).

[GVGjr]

I don't mind him rucking, although I've been wanting him to play some time down back for a few seasons now to help develop his game, but the rucking will actually make him contest right where the action is to one, get him in the game and two, help with his agression crashing into ruckmen and expecting second efforts when ball hits the ground (Huddo style).

He needs to be able to ruck for a few minutes per quarter especially with Stringer, Crameri and Bontempelli in the forward line.
I used to resist that temptation but it's the best move for him now.

[Hotdog60]

Will Minson is set to put a poor 2014 behind him and stay with the Western Bulldogs in 2015


WILL Minson is set to stay at the Western Bulldogs despite a week of controversy, as Shaun Higgins continues to negotiate with the club on a new deal.

Bulldogs coach Brendan McCartney has confirmed a series of robust exit interviews with players which has seemingly put a number of senior players off side.

But while speculation continues about some of those players considering new homes, the Dogs are confident they will keep their senior core.

Minson’s management expects him to stay at the club to honour the last two seasons of his contract, with the All-Australian ruckman saying this week he was “even more determined to return to good form next year”.

McCartney denied this week that Minson stormed out of the club’s exit interview, with discussions believed to have already taken place on how he can rebound next year.

“No, I walked out of the room with Will, but some of the interviews were pretty direct,’’ conceded McCartney.

“To be fair to Will, he had a back injury most of the summer. He attracted more attention and was double-teamed and in the end we made a decision to put him out of the team to take some pressure off him and he came back and played well in that last game.”

Higgins seemed certain to leave as a restricted free agent weeks ago as Carlton and North Melbourne made pitches for his services.

But while that could still happen, his manager Bruce Kaider said he was negotiating only with the Dogs at this stage.

“We haven’t really entered into too much conversation with other clubs, our dialogue is with the Dogs and we will continue to do that until we get to a point where it is not going to progress,’’ Kaider said.

“We are not at that point. There was no really serious conversation until last week. We are talking about the detail of the deal, that’s where the negotiation is at.”

Adam Cooney finished the year with a strong final month and is signed until the end of next year.

Even if he has issues with the club, those close to him believed he was not on the verge of departing.

He said last year when signing a new deal he never considered leaving.

“I wasn’t close at all,” he said. “I’ve said all along I wanted to stay at the footy club ... and hopefully be a Bulldog for life.”

Former captain Matthew Boyd was also unhappy with the pace of his contract negotiations but given 2015 will likely be his final season he too has little bargaining power.

McCartney seems prepared to weather the storm and hope his new hard line approach resonates with players who are aware how much the club needs to improve in 2015.
LINK (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/will-minson-is-set-to-put-a-poor-2014-behind-him-and-stay-with-the-western-bulldogs-in-2015/story-fni5fazt-1227064484893)

[Hotdog60]

Nothing new but a bit more from the managers of the players

[azabob]

What are posters hearing about Easton Wood.

Is he up for trade? I haven't read anything in the media about him as its mostly focused on Minson, Higgins and Jones.

[Hotdog60]

What are posters hearing about Easton Wood.

Is he up for trade? I haven't read anything in the media about him as its mostly focused on Minson, Higgins and Jones.

Makes you wonder, could a good thing or bad.

Once the VFL final is over I think we will see some news one way or another.

[azabob]

Makes you wonder, could a good thing or bad.

Once the VFL final is over I think we will see some news one way or another.

Im not so sure that is the case with Easton Wood. He isn't really involved so I think the VFL situation and his contract are separate issues.

[ledge]

Higgins isn't involved either

[azabob]

Higgins isn't involved either

I guess the stumbling block with Higgins is I think the official free agency offers don't open till after the grand final.

So I think with Higgins its a 10% chance he is staying.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

He needs to be able to ruck for a few minutes per quarter especially with Stringer, Crameri and Bontempelli in the forward line.
I used to resist that temptation but it's the best move for him now.
Jones has proved in the past that he isn't a second string ruck man. We need to hope that Cordy steps up to the plate.

[ledge]

I think Higgins wants to stay but isn't getting the offer he wants or near it and other clubs are offering it and more.

[Hotdog60]

Im not so sure that is the case with Easton Wood. He isn't really involved so I think the VFL situation and his contract are separate issues.

More that Bulldogs footy will be over for the season and the delisting should come out and maybe finalising the list will see other contracts tidied up.

[bornadog]

North interested in both Jones and Higgins

[LostDoggy]

We could get Aaron Black and within two seasons he could be added to our Talls of Shame

[always right]

We could get Aaron Black and within two seasons he could be added to our Talls of Shame

God I hope not.....Black would be one of the most over-rated players in the AFL. In the words of Alan Jeans.....all sizzle, no sausage.

[Bulldog4life]

North interested in both Jones and Higgins

Is there a link to that BAD?

[bornadog]

Is there a link to that BAD?

in this article: The Age (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/paddy-ryder-to-meet-ken-hinkley-as-afl-trade-intrigue-begins-20140923-10l124.html)

[bulldogsthru&thru]

List changes announced:

Daniel Giansiracusa (retired)
Tom Williams (retired)
Christian Howard
Tom Young
Brett Goodes

[LostDoggy]

List changes announced:

Daniel Giansiracusa (retired)
Tom Williams (retired)
Christian Howard
Tom Young
Brett Goodes

Not shattered by Young going. His inability to leap off the ground in key defensive marking moments really shone this season.

No news re: rookie movements apart from LJ as yet: http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-09-24/list-changes-announced

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Not shattered by Young going. His inability to leap off the ground in key defensive marking moments really shone this season.

No news re: rookie movements apart from LJ as yet: http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2014-09-24/list-changes-announced

All remaining rookies have had the max 3 yrs on the rookie list yes? So they either have to be upgraded or delisted?

[LostDoggy]

All remaining rookies have had the max 3 yrs on the rookie list yes? So they either have to be upgraded or delisted?

Correct

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So 4 spots up for grabs on the main list (Jong being promoted). You would think we would take more than 3 live picks in the ND so that doesnt bode well for Redpath or Austin

[LostDoggy]

Awarded BOG in a Grand Final on Sunday. Delisted on Wednesday. AFL is a tough job.

I hope we offer Goodes a spot at Footscray. Any word on that?

[LostDoggy]

So 4 spots up for grabs on the main list (Jong being promoted). You would think we would take more than 3 live picks in the ND so that doesnt bode well for Redpath or Austin

Still time. Higgins is likely to go so (+1), trade period to come so whatever the net result is with that is anyone's guess. I think Redpath will get elevated due to his progress this year, but that may just be my opinion.

Trade period will determine his fate more than likely.

[ledge]

I would upgrade Redpath, he is coming along nicely

[Pedro Sanchez]

I would upgrade Redpath, he is coming along nicely

Agreed. I'd promote Redpath over Austin or Greenwood. Depends if they plan to keep Talia. My thought is he's going to struggle to step up. He just doesnt look the mustard to me. If he gets traded or delisted then Austin might get promoted...

[bornadog]

Agreed. I'd promote Redpath over Austin or Greenwood. Depends if they plan to keep Talia. My thought is he's going to struggle to step up. He just doesnt look the mustard to me. If he gets traded or delisted then Austin might get promoted...

Please we do not want Austin at all.

[jeemak]

More (well no, not more) info on Higgins:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shaun-higgins-tells-teammates-he-is-likely-to-leave-western-bulldogs-20140924-10le23.html

Apparently telling team mates he might not be a Bulldog next year.

[bornadog]

More (well no, not more) info on Higgins:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/shaun-higgins-tells-teammates-he-is-likely-to-leave-western-bulldogs-20140924-10le23.html

Apparently telling team mates he won't be a Bulldog next year.

Unless there is a major breakthrough in negotiations.

I think he is asking for too much, but then again its all a game.

[ledge]

Telling them he might not be not he won't be.

[jeemak]

Fixed.

[Pedro Sanchez]

Unless there is a major breakthrough in negotiations.

I think he is asking for too much, but then again its all a game.

My two-bobs on old Hig-dog.

His preference is to stay, but the club is subtly telling him, by offering only a two year deal, that it’d be happy to lose him.

It’s not so much the cash, more the length of the contract. Given his body is pretty knackered from so many injuries, he wants the security of a longer contract.

It’s a fair call by him, but equally a fair call by the club. He’s a pretty popular figure inside the club so I reckon its quite a big call by the powers that be. But one I’m sure they’ve considered.

[FrediKanoute]

I think Higgins is a great player, but he doesn't fit. He's an ok HB Flanker, an ok HF Flanker and good midfielder, but we have younger and better in that position. I think the club has tried to find a role for Higgins, but because of his injuries there isn't one. He is one I would trade/let go if the right offer came in.

[F'scary]

Hello additional second round draft pick!

[BulldogBelle]

I don't mind Higgins as a player, but if he gets a three year deal somewhere else then good for him. I'd love to see a draft upgrade or a trade for a big forward. Shaun, there's a nice unit in Adelaide I'm interested in selling!

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Say he goes to Norf for 400-450K/3 years.

Do we know if that is likely to be an end of first round compo pick or a second round pick?

[ledge]

Isn't it based on what we are paying him now not what he will get if he goes ?
Also if he is in our top ten highest paid ?

[soupman]

Isn't it based on what we are paying him now not what he will get if he goes ?


Pretty sure it's based on his new contract, not the old one.

Pretty sure the only thing the old contract impacts is when they become restricted/unrestricted. If they are in the top 10 highest paid at the club they are restricted free agents after 7 (?) years and unrestricted after that. If they aren't in the top 10 then they are unrestricted as soon as they are eligible for free agency. This is what has happened with Frawley, because Melbourne front loaded his contract he isn't in the top 10 highest paid there so is unrestricted (which is stupid btw).

[bulldogtragic]

Say he goes to Norf for 400-450K/3 years.

Do we know if that is likely to be an end of first round compo pick or a second round pick?

Little bird told me second round pick. Excellent source.

[Mantis]

I think Higgins is a great player, but he doesn't fit. He's an ok HB Flanker, an ok HF Flanker and good midfielder, but we have younger and better in that position. I think the club has tried to find a role for Higgins, but because of his injuries there isn't one. He is one I would trade/let go if the right offer came in.

He isn't a great player.. He could have been if injuries stayed away, but now he is just a solid AFL player, nothing more.

[whythelongface]

He isn't a great player.. He could have been if injuries stayed away, but now he is just a solid AFL player, nothing more.

Agree. He is not irreplaceable. I really like Higgo but from a list perspective it is in both parties best interests that he moves on.

Just want to ask any of the ladies (or any blokes) on the forum - will you be disappointed that he is going? No doubt he is a good looking fellow. Is the type of player that attracts supporters to the club based on his looks? Hopefully our supporters are not as fickle as that and won't change allegiance because of one player - putting it out there as you never know.

[whythelongface]

Little bird told me second round pick. Excellent source.

Would we be disappointed with a 2nd round selection? To me it seems about fair considering where he is at in his career and the injuries he has sustained.

[KT31]

Little bird told me second round pick. Excellent source.

Early second round or at the end of the second round BT ?

[bulldogtragic]

Would we be disappointed with a 2nd round selection? To me it seems about fair considering where he is at in his career and the injuries he has sustained.

I think some club people and much of our supporters & members would be upset we stood by him year after year and for him to walk. I think Zaine Cordy will be pick 25, so one could say it's Zaine Cordy for Shaun Higgins in net terms (and we keep our second rounder for use or up trading into the first round). While Shaun could've been a very good player, I think there is more upside to Zaine in our next window and beyond. If the club believes that, then they will be content with the longer term view.

[bulldogtragic]

Early second round or at the end of the second round BT ?

At our natural second round pick if the money/years is as rumoured. Our pick 2 would be used on Zaine (most likely) so we end up with the same real second pick.

[whythelongface]

I think some club people and much of our supporters & members would be upset we stood by him year after year and for him to walk. I think Zaine Cordy will be pick 25, so one could say it's Zaine Cordy for Shaun Higgins in net terms (and we keep our second rounder for use or up trading into the first round). While Shaun could've been a very good player, I think there is more upside to Zaine in our next window and beyond. If the club believes that, then they will be content with the longer term view.

If that is the case and we still retain our other 2nd round pick I can certainly see this as a positive for our longer term prospects (based on what has been written about Cordy).

[Murphy'sLore]

Agree. He is not irreplaceable. I really like Higgo but from a list perspective it is in both parties best interests that he moves on.

Just want to ask any of the ladies (or any blokes) on the forum - will you be disappointed that he is going? No doubt he is a good looking fellow. Is the type of player that attracts supporters to the club based on his looks? Hopefully our supporters are not as fickle as that and won't change allegiance because of one player - putting it out there as you never know.

He is pretty, but Gia is more my type! Having said that, my 13 year old daughter is disappointed he might be going, so make of that what you will...

[KT31]

At our natural second round pick if the money/years is as rumoured. Our pick 2 would be used on Zaine (most likely) so we end up with the same real second pick.

Makes sense, thank's BT.

[Axe Man]

North firming for Bulldogs midfielder (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-24/roos-firm-for-higgins)


NORTH Melbourne is in the box seat to land restricted free agent Shaun Higgins as the Western Bulldog nears a decision on his football future.

Earlier this year, Higgins put contract talks with the Bulldogs on hold to the end of the season.

But nearly four weeks have now passed since the Bulldogs' 2014 season finished and Higgins and the club have yet to reach a new deal.

It is understood the Bulldogs have not been prepared to increase the length of the two-year deal they offered to Higgins earlier this season despite the utility's preference for a longer contract.

However, North is keen to lure Higgins to Arden Street and could offer him a lengthier deal.

If he were to leave, Higgins could also expect a pay rise on the $350,000-$400,000 a season he earned under his most recent deal with the Bulldogs.

Higgins has attracted interest from a number of clubs this year, most notably Carlton and Geelong, but the Roos have emerged as his most likely new home.

Carlton recently withdrew from the race for Higgins and Geelong is understood to be focusing its energies on landing Melbourne free agent James Frawley.

North cannot make a formal offer to Higgins until the free agency period opens next Friday (October 3).

Given Higgins is a restricted free agent, the Bulldogs have the right to keep him by matching the terms of any rival offer. But in the previous two years of free agency, no club has exercised this right.

The 26-year-old's career has been plagued by injury.

A broken foot restricted him to three games in 2013 and he was plagued by the groin condition osteitis pubis earlier in his career.

But Higgins enjoyed a better run this season, missing just two senior games, when he was dropped to the VFL in rounds 17 and 18.

The Bulldogs played the 186cm utility primarily across half-back this season, but he is equally at home in the midfield or attack.

Higgins was pick No.11 in the 2005 national draft and has played 129 matches for the Bulldogs and kicked 128 goals.

[Daughter of the West]

He is pretty, but Gia is more my type! Having said that, my 13 year old daughter is disappointed he might be going, so make of that what you will...

I'm also much sadder about losing Gia. Murphy'sLore, have you pointed out young Talia to your daughter as a potential Higgins replacement? He IS rather cute (if faaaaaaaaaaar to young for me).

[Murphy'sLore]

Good idea! Yes, young Talia is quite easy on the eye, isn't he :)

[chef]

At our natural second round pick if the money/years is as rumoured. Our pick 2 would be used on Zaine (most likely) so we end up with the same real second pick.

Do you think someone going to bid a late first rounder for him?

[LostDoggy]

Do you think someone going to bid a late first rounder for him?

We don't have to take Cordy, at pick 24 or 25 I'd be happy for whoever else wants him to take him. Looks like a classic case 2nd round is overs, 3rd round is unders. No one is putting a gun to our head to pay overs.

[bulldogtragic]

Do you think someone going to bid a late first rounder for him?

The specific club/s wasn't given told to me, but it seems to be firming that way i'm told. I think Zaine at 23-25 is a good price, I jest around my adulation towards him, but the kid can seriously play. And when he is released from a KP posting and allowed to play his attacking game I think we will look back and say we got a bargain.

[bornadog]

The specific club/s wasn't given told to me, but it seems to be firming that way i'm told. I think Zaine at 23-25 is a good price, I jest around my adulation towards him, but the kid can seriously play. And when he is released from a KP posting and allowed to play his attacking game I think we will look back and say we got a bargain.

Officially:


COMPENSATION

A club that has a net loss of players transferring to/from other clubs as free agents in one transfer period is entitled to compensation via National Draft picks allocated by the AFL.


The compensation formula produces a points rating for players based on:


1. The new contract of the free agent;
2. The age of the free agent.


Draft picks are allocated to clubs based on the net total points for free agents lost and gained during the transfer period.


Draft picks will be allocated to one of five places:


• 1st round
• end of 1st round
• 2nd round
• end of 2nd round
• 3rd round


In applying the formula, an expert committee reviews the formula outcomes. The committee has the power to recommend alternative outcomes to GM – Football Operations where the formula produces a materially anomalous result.

[The Underdog]

Easton Wood signed for one more year

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-25/new-deal-for-emerging-dog

[craigsahibee]

Easton Wood signed for one more year

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-25/new-deal-for-emerging-dog

Good news. When Talia and Roberts are regulars in the team, Wood can have a licence to run-off and be damaging.

[1eyedog]

Easton Wood signed for one more year

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-25/new-deal-for-emerging-dog

Really glad to keep him although one year is weird. Isn't it?

[LostDoggy]

One year. That would likely make him a RFAgent at the end of 2015 yeah?

[chef]

Great news. Out of the 3 he was the most important to hold onto.

[chef]

I think so which would make sense for him.

[LostDoggy]

One year. That would likely make him a RFAgent at the end of 2015 yeah?

The fact that Easton signed for one year is deeply concerning......Surprised they couldnt come to longer terms.
Cant see this an an optimal outcome.

[always right]

Rapt he has re-signed...but one year makes me very nervous. Just tactical?

[Axe Man]

One year. That would likely make him a RFAgent at the end of 2015 yeah?

I doubt Wood would be in the top 25% of earners at the club so he will likely be unrestricted like Frawley.

[lemmon]

The fact that Easton signed for one year is deeply concerning......Surprised they couldnt come to longer terms.
Cant see this an an optimal outcome.

Perhaps it's what his management has been pushing for this whole time hence the delay? No inside info, just speculation

[jeemak]

Easton hasn't set the world alight and isn't a very good user of the football, irrespective of his ability to run forward and play on taller and smaller opponents he doesn't offer a huge amount of upside from where he is now for mine.

This is also the first year where his body hasn't let him down.

I'm not too concerned with him only signing over for one year to be honest, unless something drastic changes (which it rarely does with 25 year old players) there's not going to be too many huge offers out there for his services.

I could be wrong of course.

[jeemak]

Perhaps it's what his management has been pushing for this whole time hence the delay? No inside info, just speculation

I wouldn't be surprised if you're right.

[Remi Moses]

Honestly don't know what to make of this.
Are they trying to spur Wood on by only giving him a year?
Are they ( management ) looking at F/A in 12 months?

[Remi Moses]

Easton hasn't set the world alight and isn't a very good user of the football, irrespective of his ability to run forward and play on taller and smaller opponents he doesn't offer a huge amount of upside from where he is now for mine.

This is also the first year where his body hasn't let him down.

I'm not too concerned with him only signing over for one year to be honest, unless something drastic changes (which it rarely does with 25 year old players) there's not going to be too many huge offers out there for his services.

I could be wrong of course.
Easton's ball use improved this season, as did his composure ( coming from a long way back)
He also removed that kamikaze 3rd man up kill a teammate aspect also.

[bornadog]

Easton hasn't set the world alight and isn't a very good user of the football, irrespective of his ability to run forward and play on taller and smaller opponents he doesn't offer a huge amount of upside from where he is now for mine.

This is also the first year where his body hasn't let him down.

I'm not too concerned with him only signing over for one year to be honest, unless something drastic changes (which it rarely does with 25 year old players) there's not going to be too many huge offers out there for his services.

I could be wrong of course.

Whilst I think one year is strange, you also make a good argument.

[ledge]

Maybe it has a clause for longer depending on his output.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The one year contract screams FA.

[Go_Dogs]

The one year contract screams FA.

I'm not convinced about that, I think it's more so we offered amount x due to his best and fairest finish etc, Easton and his management think with another season of improvement he'll have leverage to negotiate a better deal at the end of 2015.

All speculation, but either way, glad he's signed.

[Go_Dogs]

The one year contract screams FA.

I'm not convinced about that, I think it's more so we offered amount x due to his best and fairest finish etc, Easton and his management think with another season of improvement he'll have leverage to negotiate a better deal at the end of 2015.

All speculation, but either way, glad he's signed.

[ratsmac]

1 year? I would love to know whose decision it was for the 1 year, player or club. Strange.

[Maddog37]

Bottom line is that he is signed and for that I am happy. I feel he has the attributes to become a very good player.

[BulldogBelle]

Just reported on 7 news that Jones has told Dogs he wants to go to the Blues.

[1eyedog]

Far out man the cheats that just sucks. He will get no more support there. I guess Waite is gone then.

[Go_Dogs]

Just reported on 7 news that Jones has told Dogs he wants to go to the Blues.

Disappointing if true.

[bulldogtragic]

Not to kill joy, can we talk Jones rumours in the rumour thread, two threads on the same topic makes it hard.

[azabob]

Not to kill joy, can we talk Jones rumours in the rumour thread, two threads on the same topic makes it hard.

Kill joy. This thread is about Jones signing or not signing.

[bulldogtragic]

Kill joy. This thread is about Jones signing or not signing.

Ok, but I will cut and paste posts and we will have 2 discussions on the same topic...

[azabob]

Ok, but I will cut and paste posts and we will have 2 discussions on the same topic...

Maybe ask a mod to merge this thread ino the rumour one?

The forum does seem to have very similar multiple threads.

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe ask a mod to merge this thread ino the rumour one?

The forum does seem to have very similar multiple threads.
We know why, or who too. :)

[Bulldog4life]

Just reported on 7 news that Jones has told Dogs he wants to go to the Blues.

Not good. Wish he was staying.

[always right]

Not happy. We do the hard yards and another club potentially reaps the benefits.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'm not convinced about that, I think it's more so we offered amount x due to his best and fairest finish etc, Easton and his management think with another season of improvement he'll have leverage to negotiate a better deal at the end of 2015.



Thats the way I see it

Id prefer for him to lock in and have a career best year, because if he doesn't have it soon then maybe it is better to just cut our losses

[jeemak]

Not happy. We do the hard yards and another club potentially reaps the benefits.

But it's OK for us to pick up players from other clubs when they're 23 years old and for whatever reason haven't gotten enough out of themselves?

He's been cooked with us for a long time. If he can get more out of himself at another club good on him. He's not worth piling more resources into from our end, he's clearly checked out.

[jeemak]

Bulldogtragic - WOOF POLICE :)

[bulldogtragic]

Bulldogtragic - WOOF POLICE :)
Don't know :) I've probably as much authority as 'officer nasty' from numerous movies.

[Remi Moses]

He's done with us so why the fretting?
He's had long enough to improve and become consistent for us, and yet he's gone backwards or at best stagnated.
As posters said previously good defenders get him .
If he gets a good run at a marking contest he looks great one on one, but you don't get that often at AFL level anymore.
Then there's the second third efforts which are a necessity that he doesn't bring on a consistent basis.

[Sedat]

He's done with us so why the fretting?
I don't think the article says anything definitive about him walking out on the club, only that he's "exploring trade options".

[wimberga]

If jones goes, we will have gotten rid of a player who doesn't want to be a bulldog.

That's a win.

[always right]

But it's OK for us to pick up players from other clubs when they're 23 years old and for whatever reason haven't gotten enough out of themselves?

He's been cooked with us for a long time. If he can get more out of himself at another club good on him. He's not worth piling more resources into from our end, he's clearly checked out.

How can someone who is 23 have been cooked for a long time?

[whythelongface]

I have always had a big wrap on Jones. Unfortunately he has yet to deliver consistently what he is capable of. Of course I would be disappointed to see him go as he could potentially find some consistency and become a good forward, however this may be another opportunity for a win-win for both parties. We may pick up a 2nd round pick for him which could be used to snare another decent kid or be used in a trade deal to secure another forward.

Anyway good luck to the kid if he decides to jump ship.

[josie]

If Jones is gone I really hope Redpath get's a decent run in the 1's. That last qtr tackle & ferocity he showed for whole game in VFL grand final (yes I know it's not AFL) really impressed me. Redpath playing may be a necessity if Crameri cannot play !!

I've felt Jones often lacks ferocity/intensity. Still hoping he stays, however if he does not want to stay I trust our club to negotiate well for good pick(s) and then pray we use them wisely.

[soupman]

If Jones is gone I really hope Redpath get's a decent run in the 1's. That last qtr tackle & ferocity he showed for whole game in VFL grand final (yes I know it's not AFL) really impressed me.

I've only seen him do that for one quarter ever though, so unless he can switch to "hunt" mode permanently then I don't think he is good enough. Aside from a lobvely kick he doesn't do anything at AFL standard.

[Remi Moses]

I don't think the article says anything definitive about him walking out on the club, only that he's "exploring trade options".

I take exploring options is I want out.

[bulldogtragic]

I take exploring options is I want out.

Or playing hard to get. Increase dollars or years...

[jeemak]

How can someone who is 23 have been cooked for a long time?

Jones hasn't put a season together where his effort has been acceptable since 2010. Every year since then I have been more and more critical of him as he's matured (though I have made my fair share of excuses for him over many years), unfortunately during that time the only consistency he has had is his tendency towards erratic output.

My comment about him being cooked is made with the benefit of hindsight. I'd say he hasn't done much more than what I've come to expect from him since the start of 2013(and for me, two years is a long time when it comes to player development). Two seasons of stagnation at best, and clear regression at worst is enough for me to say we've thrown enough resources towards developing Liam Jones and we should move on.

Once again, if he develops elsewhere then good for him. I think he and us and us and him have respectively given all we can to the partnership and it's time to move on.

[Remi Moses]

Or playing hard to get. Increase dollars or years...

Hopefully the club doesn't buckle if that's the case.

[Remi Moses]

Jones hasn't put a season together where his effort has been acceptable since 2010. Every year since then I have been more and more critical of him as he's matured (though I have made my fair share of excuses for him over many years), unfortunately during that time the only consistency he has had is his tendency towards erratic output.

My comment about him being cooked is made with the benefit of hindsight. I'd say he hasn't done much more than what I've come to expect from him since the start of 2013. Two seasons of stagnation at best, and clear regression at worst is enough for me to say we've thrown enough resources towards developing Liam Jones and we should move on.

Once again, if he develops elsewhere then good for him. I think he and us and us and him have respectively given all we can to the partnership and it's time to move on.

Unless it suddenly clicks for Liam I don't think he'll develop on any afl list
He is inconsistent in effortand once you could get away with that, but not now.
If Higgins and Jones go we're going to have significant cap space.

[G-Mo77]

If Higgins and Jones go we're going to have significant cap space.

What are we going to spend it on?

[Remi Moses]

What are we going to spend it on?

Your guess is as good as mine .
Interesting times

[ReLoad]

Your guess is as good as mine .
Interesting times

Carlisle......

[chef]

Im not too fussed about Jones going. He's great at VFL level but pretty meh at AFL level, he reminds me of Trent Bartlett.

Plus according to the papers we will be pushing for a second round pick, which is overs so that would be great.

[WBFC4FFC]

Yeah I agree with this too. Also, we have the cap space to pay him a bit just for a year and if his body holds-up in 2015, he would get a 3-yr offer going forward.

[Remi Moses]

Carlisle......

Stop it ... Would be beautiful!
Just imagine what Dodo bird would want!

[Dogmatic]

I'm extremely annoyed by Jones wanting out. I still think he is set for a breakout season anytime now, players with this sort of marking talent are rare.

If he leaves we have absolutely no Key Forward prospects and good luck trying to lure a good key forward from another club or develop one, which we haven't been able to do in decades.

Cordy and Campbell are ruckmen.....they will never be forwards.

This is bad. I blame Macca.

[The Pie Man]

The Liam Jones situation - now I believe everyone agrees he's no longer potential No.1 KPF material....I believe most on here think that if he had a quality bigger body to take the best defender, that he could contribute as 2nd/3rd banana.

Thing is, we've never tried it - I get we don't have the quality, but I can't remember Jones playing the same game with either of Campbell or Redpath also in the side...presumably for lack of forward mobility this would pose....so do the MC only believe in the one 'big' KF structure?

Even if Jones still took the best defender, one of Redpath/Campbell may have benefited from taking a lesser quality opponent...especially Redpath in his 3 games.

If he goes to Carlton, he maybe behind Henderson et al....or maybe they recognize he can be a quality 3rd tall and exploit it.

[bornadog]

The Liam Jones situation - now I believe everyone agrees he's no longer potential No.1 KPF material....I believe most on here think that if he had a quality bigger body to take the best defender, that he could contribute as 2nd/3rd banana.

Thing is, we've never tried it - I get we don't have the quality, but I can't remember Jones playing the same game with either of Campbell or Redpath also in the side...presumably for lack of forward mobility this would pose....so do the MC only believe in the one 'big' KF structure?

Even if Jones still took the best defender, one of Redpath/Campbell may have benefited from taking a lesser quality opponent...especially Redpath in his 3 games.

If he goes to Carlton, he maybe behind Henderson et al....or maybe they recognize he can be a quality 3rd tall and exploit it.

It was interesting in the VFL GF, we had Jones, Redpath and Cordy all lining up side by side.

[G-Mo77]

I'm extremely annoyed by Jones wanting out. I still think he is set for a breakout season anytime now, players with this sort of marking talent are rare.

If he leaves we have absolutely no Key Forward prospects and good luck trying to lure a good key forward from another club or develop one, which we haven't been able to do in decades.

Cordy and Campbell are ruckmen.....they will never be forwards.

This is bad. I blame Macca.

The contested marking ability is really a key asset to his game and a reason to work with him a bit longer. If he does go, which I still don't think is set in stone, we'll probably promote Redpath in his place.

[Happy Days]

K so, if I'm reading this correctly, Jones, whose AFL performance (as a whole) has been mediocre and whose VFL performances don't count for some reason, and who has shown traits that can potentially be nurtured, possibly to the elite level, needs to go to make way for Redpath, whose AFL performances have been terrible and VFL performances have been pretty okay.

Redpath is older than Jones, has no standout skills, has done his knee twice and is only impressing people with his development because of how terrible he used to be.

I don't care if they both go but do not act like Redpath potentially getting promoted is some saving grace.

[G-Mo77]

K so, if I'm reading this correctly, Jones, whose AFL performance (as a whole) has been mediocre and whose VFL performances don't count for some reason, and who has shown traits that can potentially be nurtured, possibly to the elite level, needs to go to make way for Redpath, whose AFL performances have been terrible and VFL performances have been pretty okay.

Redpath is older than Jones, has no standout skills, has done his knee twice and is only impressing people with his development because of how terrible he used to be.

I don't care if they both go but do not act like Redpath potentially getting promoted is some saving grace.

I don't know if this post was directed at me but I never said he would be, I just think they'll promote him if Jones departs. FWIW I much more comfortable going with Jones again for a couple more years but that's not a luxury we may have.

[LostDoggy]

K so, if I'm reading this correctly, Jones, whose AFL performance (as a whole) has been mediocre and whose VFL performances don't count for some reason, and who has shown traits that can potentially be nurtured, possibly to the elite level, needs to go to make way for Redpath, whose AFL performances have been terrible and VFL performances have been pretty okay.

Redpath is older than Jones, has no standout skills, has done his knee twice and is only impressing people with his development because of how terrible he used to be.

I don't care if they both go but do not act like Redpath potentially getting promoted is some saving grace.

Are you just making shit up? I don't think i've read anthing, anywhere, to suggest that Jones needs to go to make way for Redpath.

[Happy Days]

I don't know if this post was directed at me but I never said he would be, I just think they'll promote him if Jones departs. FWIW I much more comfortable going with Jones again for a couple more years but that's not a luxury we may have.


Are you just making shit up? I don't think i've read anthing, anywhere, to suggest that Jones needs to go to make way for Redpath.

It's not directed at anyone, I just have little faith in Jones making it, even less in him staying and Redpath should not be promoted because he is not good. Saying one goes for the other was a little much but the implication HS been that if Jones is gone Redpath takes his place.

I really don't rate Redpath.

[Before I Die]

I'm extremely annoyed by Jones wanting out. I still think he is set for a breakout season anytime now, players with this sort of marking talent are rare.

If he leaves we have absolutely no Key Forward prospects and good luck trying to lure a good key forward from another club or develop one, which we haven't been able to do in decades.

Cordy and Campbell are ruckmen.....they will never be forwards.

This is bad. I blame Macca.

The bolded bit may just be a throw away line, but why do you blame Macca?

Is it because Jones hasn't performed? is it because he isn't willing to bend over to Jones' pay demands?

Jones isn't being cut, he is talking about leaving for a better offer. Good luck to him if he decides to leave.

We have a gun key forward prospect in Stringer. He is 192cm and still building muscle on a strong frame.

Yes, there is a place for Jones, but only at a reasonable price. He doesn't read the play well. He doesn't lead well. He is terrible when the ball hits the ground. He is not a strong contested mark in a one on one body contest. He is an excellent mark when given a chance to run at the ball and launch. His goal kicking is much improved. As stated above. He is a keeper, but only if this can be achieved at a reasonable price.

[mjp]

Jones might or might not improve enough to become a consistent player. I would suspect he won't (mostly because he hasn't shown that he can) but it is possible...the reality is he has been in and out of the senior side though so what are we really missing out on here? I know there is a bit of hand-wringing about 'what he might become' but unless you really think he is on the cusp of turning it around in the number 19 tricolours guernsey, who cares?

No one coach can get the best out of every player. That doesn't mean they are a bad coach - or the player is a bad player. It just means that personalities and attitudes didn't create a perfect match at that time/place in the players career...some players - hard working with great attitudes - are frustrated by lack of opportunity at one club and leave 'for opportunity' only to find that what wasn't good enough at Geelong probably still won't be good enough at Hawthorn (for example). Then there are others (like Liam) who are in and out of teams not due to talent but due to work ethic, consistency, whatever. Sometimes the change of scenery works out (Schultz going from Richmond to Port), sometimes it doesn't (Josh Hill leaving to join West Coast) but rarely does it matter...the player was never going to reach his potential at his original club so why not get someone else in, put the coaching time and effort into the 'new guy' and see if a positive return can be achieved.

I would be encouraging Jones to leave. I would be encouraging Higgins to leave. We can't win with 'em...why not try a different direction, see if we can (somehow) get a little bit of something in the draft for them and keep moving forward.

[Remi Moses]

Great analogy ^^ just wondering if you're watching " The chosen Few"?
Insight into the minds of the coaching fraternity.

[stefoid]

I really want Jonesy to stay. He has been improving slowly from year to year in all aspects, and his kicking for goal has been completely cleaned up.

as a foil to a genuine power FF and with our midfield improving its delivery, he will do well.

[Cyberdoggie]

Great analogy ^^ just wondering if you're watching " The chosen Few"?
Insight into the minds of the coaching fraternity.

I only caught the last 30min and looked an excellent program. Will have to try and catch the rest if it's on the web.

[Hotdog60]

I only caught the last 30min and looked an excellent program. Will have to try and catch the rest if it's on the web.

It was an interesting insight to the coaching life especially between the old and the new. At one point I think it was Kennedy said it you said that to a player today you would get a text from his lawyer the next day.

Not enough from Macca and too much from Buckley.

[ledge]

Why so much on Buckley he has achieved nothing, was the director a pies supporter?

[Hotdog60]

Why so much on Buckley he has achieved nothing, was the director a pies supporter?

It seemed to be revolving a lot from the Thursday night Pies v Crows game. Sando and Buckley close mates doing battle against each other. So those two got a lot of air play.

[ledge]

I thought it was made over the year , must admit I only caught 5 minutes of it but I would love to watch the lot .

[jeemak]

It seemed to be revolving a lot from the Thursday night Pies v Crows game. Sando and Buckley close mates doing battle against each other. So those two got a lot of air play.

From what I heard on the radio this game was to be focused on.

[ledge]

Why would you focus on two new coaches who haven't achieved anything? Focus on blokes like malt house who have seen the highs and lows and been around to see the changes.

[jeemak]

Maybe he wanted to do things differently?

From what I can gather he liked the angle of Sanderson and Buckley being good mates. Also, apparently Danny Frawley was instrumental in getting the buy in from all of the coaches, though to what extent each coach wanted to participate is an unknown so it could have come down to struggling to get an angle that would be durable or in depth enough over the course of the season.

[ledge]

Good point maybe some coaches were very guarded and aren't into giving away anything about their personality etc, or maybe even the clubs had certain restrictions.

[jeemak]

With the Kennedy, Barrassi et al section it was also mentioned this would be the last expose any of them would participate in as they'd either had enough or don't like being shown to be old school or unsophisticated etc. (I assume).

[LostDoggy]

The Age said Jones has quit, if that's the case I'm sorry to see you go Liam but would rather a player who wants to be there and part of future success.

[bulldogtragic]

The Age said Jones has quit, if that's the case I'm sorry to see you go Liam but would rather a player who wants to be there and part of future success.
I guess like Farren Ray before him, we have exactly NO bargaining power. Yippee. :(

[ledge]

So that's Higgins and jones gone.. If jones has gone to Carlton what options in a trade do we look at on their list , and it wouldn't be Waite too old. Or do we just ask for a draft pick ?

[bulldogtragic]

So that's Higgins and jones gone.. If jones has gone to Carlton what options in a trade do we look at on their list , and it wouldn't be Waite too old. Or do we just ask for a draft pick ?

Garlett or Yarran as a minimum, but both parties could screw us. He's worth more than pick 28 they got for Mr Megan Gale. Saints, Dees & Brissy will take him in the PSD before Carlton, so we have the threat of those clubs but if Jones walks he takes a lot of bargaining power out with him.

[soupman]

Garlett or Yarran as a minimum, but both parties could screw us. He's worth more than pick 28 they got for Mr Megan Gale. Saints, Dees & Brissy will take him in the PSD before Carlton, so we have the threat of those clubs but if Jones walks he takes a lot of bargaining power out with him.

Garlett is not what we need. And there is no way they'd get rid of Yarran for anything that wasn't heavily weighted in their favour, which Jones isn't. I think we will get their second round draft pick in that trade, and at best maybe get an upgrade somewhere else (what with I don't know).

[bulldogtragic]

Garlett is not what we need. And there is no way they'd get rid of Yarran for anything that wasn't heavily weighted in their favour, which Jones isn't. I think we will get their second round draft pick in that trade, and at best maybe get an upgrade somewhere else (what with I don't know).

Then it's hardly worth trading. Take him with 31 and get 28 back after 5 years of heartache. I'd rather wish St Kilda on him.

[soupman]

Then it's hardly worth trading. Take him with 31 and get 28 back after 5 years of heartache. I'd rather wish St Kilda on him.

At best we could demand they acquire a pick between 15-22 for us, but he isn't worth more than that and they don't have the personnel on their list to make up the difference.

I have no interest in Gartlett. We have a heap of forwards, most of them small and quick. And all of them can rotate through elsewhere unlike Gartlett.

Who else do they have on their list that they would be willing to trade that isn't more of what we already have?

[bulldogtragic]

At best we could demand they acquire a pick between 15-22 for us, but he isn't worth more than that and they don't have the personnel on their list to make up the difference.

I have no interest in Gartlett. We have a heap of forwards, most of them small and quick. And all of them can rotate through elsewhere unlike Gartlett.

Who else do they have on their list that they would be willing to trade that isn't more of what we already have?

True, I mention Garlett more out of where he was taken. I'd say Yarran but he like Liam seems weak in consistent application. I don't rate Casboult, I've just literally checked their squad out online, gee it's shit. Warnock maybe. Very lean pickings.

If you said we'd lose Higgins & Jones for pick 27 & 28 half way through the year, you'd think it was Brisbane last year happening to us this year.

[mighty_west]

Then it's hardly worth trading. Take him with 31 and get 28 back after 5 years of heartache. I'd rather wish St Kilda on him.

The pick Liam was taken with is irrelevant, and I couldn't see him being worth alot more than a second round selection at this stage taking eveything into account, we gave not much more than that for Crameri.

[LostDoggy]

The pick Liam was taken with is irrelevant, and I couldn't see him being worth alot more than a second round selection at this stage taking eveything into account, we gave not much more than that for Crameri.

Correct, how on earth has this kid become such a valuable asset in everybody's eyes? The guy could not get a game and has been a consistent disappointment for 5 years. Suddenly he is valued higher than Crameri, who we only paid pick 26 for, give me a break. If we get pick 28 for Jones it's fair fodder, anything higher we are making out like bandits!

[LostDoggy]

The pick Liam was taken with is irrelevant, and I couldn't see him being worth alot more than a second round selection at this stage taking eveything into account, we gave not much more than that for Crameri.

This.

If we supported the club chasing Liam and the Dogs asked for our second round selection we would tell them to shove it very quickly. Especially an early second rounder in the 20's.

[kruder]

Does anyone know what the contract situation is with Henderson?

I really like him as a player and surprised he didn't really kick on this year.

[JohnGentStand]

Mitch Robinson....

[ledge]

Mitch has already been delisted hasn't he ?

[LostDoggy]

Mitch has already been delisted hasn't he ?

No, I think he was told that his best position at Carlton would be outside the ground. They could still get a late 2nd/3rd round for him before delisting.

[bornadog]

Carlton confirm they are not chasing Higgins.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Robinson is erratic, but I don't mind him as a player. Strong, plays with heart, penetrating kick (although not always accurate), decent mark for his size.

Not what we need though.

[The Underdog]

I'm a big Liam Jones booster but if he's leaving I'd absolutely take Carlton's 2nd rounder for him

[bulldogsman]

Carlton confirm they are chasing Jones

Trade Radio ‏@traderadio

McKay: We need to bolster our 21, 22 year age bracket. We'd be interested in a player like Liam (Jones) #NABTradeRadio

[Remi Moses]

God no to Robinson
1. He's an idiot
2. He can't kick

[F'scary]

Carlton confirm they are not chasing Higgins.

Uh-oh. The much hoped for s-fight for his services evaporates before our eyes.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Uh-oh. The much hoped for s-fight for his services evaporates before our eyes.
Apparently its because there are other offers in front of him that are too high for Carlton

[G-Mo77]

Apparently its because there are other offers in front of him that are too high for Carlton

Weren't they offering 4 years? What ever the case is we'll get a 2nd round pick for him. That'll do.

[F'scary]

Apparently its because there are other offers in front of him that are too high for Carlton

Just hope its not ours.

[bornadog]

Apparently its because there are other offers in front of him that are too high for Carlton

Probably North

[F'scary]

Positive news on the the Higgins & Jones exits: The Age has an inset titled "The Big Trade Targets" and lists 11 players. On the list are Higgins & Jones. Good trade marketing for us - and for free too!

[DISHLICKERS]

Herald Sun is confirming Liam Jones wants to be traded to Carlton.

His manager is quoted saying he wants to move to Visy Park.

I am disappointed that it has got to this.

23Yo KPF going is not a good sign. We lost Harbrow and Ward at similar ages.

[bornadog]

Herald Sun is confirming Liam Jones wants to be traded to Carlton.

His manager is quoted saying he wants to move to Visy Park.

I am disappointed that it has got to this.

23Yo KPF going is not a good sign. We lost Harbrow and Ward at similar ages.

And supporters whinge we don't have players in that age bracket.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Jones may still turn out to be a failure at AFL level, but given all circumstances (his potential, age, our lack of talls, development time) this is a very disappointing result.

We'll be lucky to get a third round pick for him.

My faith in this current regime could not be any lower.

[Greystache]

And supporters whinge we don't have players in that age bracket.

No. Supporters whinge we don't have quality players in that age range. No one's whinging we don't have enough 23-25 year old playing reserves after 6-8 years in the system and only a handful of decent games to show for it.

[bornadog]

No. Supporters whinge we don't have quality players in that age range. No one's whinging we don't have enough 23-25 year old playing reserves after 6-8 years in the system and only a handful of decent games to show for it.

We get rid of the quality like Ward and Harbrow.

[mighty_west]

We get rid of the quality like Ward and Harbrow.

What a load a bullocks, we were NEVER going to be able to match the amount of money that those two new expansion teams offered them and nor should we have! Pathetic statement.

[mighty_west]

And supporters whinge we don't have players in that age bracket.

Hopefully we'll trade in some player's of that age group who will put in second and third efforts with the intensity required at AFL level.

[bornadog]

What a load a bullocks, we were NEVER going to be able to match the amount of money that those two new expansion teams offered them and nor should we have! Pathetic statement.

Not pathetic at all - If we managed the situation before they were offered anything then we could have kept them. We all new the expansion clubs were coming and should have planned ahead.

[BulldogBelle]

We get rid of the quality like Ward and Harbrow.

Don't recall getting rid of them.
l do recall them leaving for bags of cash.

[SonofScray]

Jones wanting out irks me. I'm a fan of his, feel he has at times been unfairly maligned and am anxious about him playing at a really high level elsewhere. It is likely that he won't, because he hasn't been able to do so yet, but it would really be painful. In some ways it reminds me of when Luke Penny left. We were really skint for young, talented, big men and it appeared we'd landed a good one only for him to fall a tad short with us and play good footy elsewhere.

[bornadog]

Don't recall getting rid of them.
l do recall them leaving for bags of cash.
Mis-managing, same difference.

I can think of 5 players I would rather get rid of than Jones and Higgins. We can't afford to let these sort of players leave our club.

[DISHLICKERS]

Not pathetic at all - If we managed the situation before they were offered anything then we could have kept them. We all new the expansion clubs were coming and should have planned ahead.


We were prob the only club to lose two players at that age to the expansion teams. We were and still are asleep at the wheel.

[Dry Rot]

I have been very consistent in thinking Jones was a rubbish KPF, and I accept that I'm in the minority.

For the majority, I'd say you your anger and focus is misdirected against Jones. Rather, ask yourselves, under two coaching and two drafting regimes, how we have ended up with just one (and I'd argue a poor one) KPF and now the cupboard is bare?

Even without Jones leaving, we have the poorest stock of KPF in the comp (I don't count Crameri, Stringer or Bonts as a KPF).

How has this happened? It's a disgrace.

[Before I Die]

I have been very consistent in thinking Jones was a rubbish KPF, and I accept that I'm in the minority.

For the majority, I'd say you your anger and focus is misdirected against Jones. Rather, ask yourselves, under two coaching and two drafting regimes, how we have ended up with just one (and I'd argue a poor one) KPF and now the cupboard is bare?

Even without Jones leaving, we have the poorest stock of KPF in the comp (I don't count Crameri, Stringer or Bonts as a KPF).

How has this happened? It's a disgrace.

Stringer was recruited as a full forward and has been played mainly as a full forward. Over the last part of the season he was also very effective in this role. Not counting him is just distorting the facts.

[Remi Moses]

I have been very consistent in thinking Jones was a rubbish KPF, and I accept that I'm in the minority.

For the majority, I'd say you your anger and focus is misdirected against Jones. Rather, ask yourselves, under two coaching and two drafting regimes, how we have ended up with just one (and I'd argue a poor one) KPF and now the cupboard is bare?

Even without Jones leaving, we have the poorest stock of KPF in the comp (I don't count Crameri, Stringer or Bonts as a KPF).

How has this happened? It's a disgrace.

I take your point, but let's be honest the franchise newbies have taken the top end talent

[Dry Rot]

Stringer was recruited as a full forward and has been played mainly as a full forward. Over the last part of the season he was also very effective in this role. Not counting him is just distorting the facts.

Here we differ. I thought Stringer was meant to be a mid who could play forward?

[Dry Rot]

I take your point, but let's be honest the franchise newbies have taken the top end talent

We still could have done a lot better eg Howard's year.

[Twodogs]

Stringers a forward but he wasn't drafted in the drafts DR is talking about otherwise Roughie would count too.

[lemmon]

I wouldn't be budging on anything less than a second rounder for Jones to be honest. I'd rather send him to the draft than accept a pick in the 50's. If we do grab their second round pick my qualms with him leaving are greatly diminished, the talent is obvious but he'd be long odds to ever realise it in my mind.

[chef]

We get rid of the quality like Ward and Harbrow.

No, we didn't get rid of them. They left because we couldn't match what they were offered elsewhere and they chose the dollar over our club.

Big screw up by the previous regime.

[chef]

And supporters whinge we don't have players in that age bracket.

Its the next age bracket that people whinge about, well its the one I do which would be the core of our current team.

People also whinge about us hanging on to list cloggers to long.

Damned if we do and damned if we dont.

[Bulldog Joe]

Interesting that so many are lamenting the loss of Jones.

Are they the same posters that also celebrated our avoidance of Chris Dawes?

On performance Jones is well behind Dawes. If we get anywhere near a second round pick, we should just say thanks and Good Luck Liam. Hope it dawns on you at some stage that AFL needs more than sitting back waiting for the speccy over the top.

[chef]

Yep. If Jones had been putting in his VFL performances at AFL level than id be pissed, but he hasnt. Hes the modern day Trent Bartlett.

[bornadog]

No, we didn't get rid of them. They left because we couldn't match what they were offered elsewhere and they chose the dollar over our club.

Big screw up by the previous regime.

Lets just say previous list manager didn't do his job.

[bornadog]

Yep. If Jones had been putting in his VFL performances at AFL level than id be pissed, but he hasnt. Hes the modern day Trent Bartlett.

We know players of his height don't hit their peak till 25/26 plus. Have a look at Geelong's Hawkins.

[Topdog]

Interesting that so many are lamenting the loss of Jones.

Are they the same posters that also celebrated our avoidance of Chris Dawes?

On performance Jones is well behind Dawes. If we get anywhere near a second round pick, we should just say thanks and Good Luck Liam. Hope it dawns on you at some stage that AFL needs more than sitting back waiting for the speccy over the top.
On performance he actually isn't too far behind dawes at all.
Dawes had 83 goals from 71 games st this stage.

[Bulldog Joe]

On performance he actually isn't too far behind dawes at all.
Dawes had 83 goals from 71 games st this stage.

Jones actually had a better career start at 19 and 20 but by the time Dawes was 23 he is ahead of Jones on EVERY stat that I can look at.

[chef]

Lets just say previous list manager didn't do his job.

Probably because we didnt really have one, Eade, Clayton, Fantasia etc were stretched to far and its still affecting us.

[mighty_west]

I for one will not blame the club for losing Jones, he needed an extended period in the two's going on his inconsistent form and Redpath and Campbell deserved a shot in the forward line, I put this all on Jones himself for not taking his medicine and taking this on the chin and working hard to find good enough consistency with the hard work required to get himself back in the senior side and to me, for him to crack the sads and leave the club shows more about him as a person, as ive read a few times, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

[chef]

We know players of his height don't hit their peak till 25/26 plus. Have a look at Geelong's Hawkins.

I just dont see it in Jones at AFL level.

Hawkins was 21/22 when he started to hit his straps and perform consistently.

[mighty_west]

Probably because we didnt really have one, Eade, Clayton, Fantasia etc were stretched to far and its still affecting us.

Alot of dodgy trading and poor draft choices also still hurting.

[LostDoggy]

This season would appear different in that we're 'gifted' players who border/are key position heights in Cordy & Foster. 2008 was our last KP target draft where we went Cordy/Roughy/Jones.

We've done well with the diamond in the rough selctions e.g quality individuals who've been left late due to stereotypical modern football deficiencies - e.g height as with Dal and Honeychurch.

We now have a plethora of these individuals. This draft, with a choice of talls and smalls around the 40-60 pick we should opt for tall.

The first round picks for 2012 & 2013 have been productive, but our later picks have again yielded smalls when by this stage it should have become apparent that Lake was gone, Roughy was still learning, Cordy was still undeveloped and simply that there was a massive KP hole in our list.

[chef]

Alot of dodgy trading and poor draft choices also still hurting.

Plus hanging onto cloggers to long

[w3design]

We know players of his height don't hit their peak till 25/26 plus. Have a look at Geelong's Hawkins.

Looked at Geelong Hawkins 2011v Jones 2013 Similar age

Hawkins Jones
Kicks 125 av 6.9 107 av 5.6
Marks 88 av 4.9 77 AV 4.0
HB 98 av 5.4 54 AV 2.8

Score 27 17 22 15

2012 2014

Kicks 198 av 9.0 59 av 5.9
marks 144 av6.5 35av 3.5
hb 80 av 3.6 41 av 4.1

score 62 38 12 4

Moral to the story is Hawkins was one of the slower developing KPPs yet at the same age and similar experience is way ahead of Jones.

Jones to make it will create history. Yes KPP's take time but glaciers move faster than Jones's development

[bornadog]

Looked at Geelong Hawkins 2011v Jones 2013 Similar age

Hawkins Jones
Kicks 125 av 6.9 107 av 5.6
Marks 88 av 4.9 77 AV 4.0
HB 98 av 5.4 54 AV 2.8

Score 27 17 22 15

2012 2014

Kicks 198 av 9.0 59 av 5.9
marks 144 av6.5 35av 3.5
hb 80 av 3.6 41 av 4.1

score 62 38 12 4

Moral to the story is Hawkins was one of the slower developing KPPs yet at the same age and similar experience is way ahead of Jones.

Jones to make it will create history. Yes KPP's take time but glaciers move faster than Jones's development

Why are people so keen to get rid of Jones when there are 5 players worst than him on our list.

[LostDoggy]

Why are people so keen to get rid of Jones when there are 5 players worst than him on our list.

The point is Jones wants to leave us not the other way around, what people are doing is finding the silver-lining in this situation. Seems Jones' reputation as a player has skyrocketed after a couple of decent games of VFL! I have no issue with this as we should be over-compensated for losing him now.

[The bulldog tragician]

Why are people so keen to get rid of Jones when there are 5 players worst than him on our list.

BAD - genuine question. Who are those five?

[1eyedog]

I for one will not blame the club for losing Jones, he needed an extended period in the two's going on his inconsistent form and Redpath and Campbell deserved a shot in the forward line, I put this all on Jones himself for not taking his medicine and taking this on the chin and working hard to find good enough consistency with the hard work required to get himself back in the senior side and to me, for him to crack the sads and leave the club shows more about him as a person, as ive read a few times, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

This is quite simply a massive risk in Jones' career. He is probably going to a club with a few in front of him Casboult / Henderson / Waite / possibly Jacksh and he will be under the management of a coaching staff with far less patience than ours. He could very easily be out of the system in 2 years. We have been patient with him and will probably continue to be so and there is absolutely no one in front of him in terms of a key forward position with us. Massive risk for him. Screw the advice he is getting from management if I was his old man I would be on the phone to him.

I'm honestly starting to think that Jones knows he can't make it and he's looking for a top up before he gets the flick.

[Axe Man]

Bulldog Jones wants to get the Blues (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-30/jones-wants-the-blues)

OUT-OF-CONTRACT Western Bulldogs key forward Liam Jones has requested a trade to Carlton.

The 23-year-old played just 10 AFL games in 2014, although his season ended on a high when he booted five goals in the Dogs' VFL Grand Final win over the Box Hill Hawks.

Now he has set his sights on the joining the Blues, who are in the market for a big forward after the departure of free agent Jarrad Waite.

"We've met with Carlton," Jones' manager, Shane Casley, told SEN radio on Tuesday morning.

"There are several clubs that we've spoken to, but I think Carlton seems to be the best fit for Liam.

"It's certainly the club that we've nominated, and we'd like to get there, but until a deal's done it's never done, is it?"

Whether the Bulldogs will be prepared to part with Jones remains to be seen.

"We've had several meetings with the Bulldogs over the last couple of weeks," Casley said.

"Obviously we had to wait until Footscray were out of the VFL finals series.

"It's fair to say that Liam's been a bit frustrated this year with the lack of opportunities in the last couple of months.

"At the end of the day, like most guys, he just wants to play senior AFL football."

Jones, who stands at 198cm, was drafted by the Bulldogs with pick 32 in the 2008 NAB AFL Draft.

He made his debut in 2010 but has played just 64 games in five seasons, kicking 68 goals.

"Liam came in as a 17-year-old, a boy from Tassie, and he was still at Scotch College when he was drafted," Casley said.

"So he's certainly been a long time in the system.

"But … sometimes you just need a fresh break and a change, and I think that's where Liam's got to at the moment.

"He's had his struggles at the Bulldogs. He's been that lone forward at times.

"If he gets to a club where there's the opportunity to play as that second tall forward, I think you could see his career blossom."

[LostDoggy]

So Liam's manager has come out and said the following;

"It's fair to say that Liam's been a bit frustrated this year with the lack of opportunities in the last couple of months. At the end of the day, like most guys, he just wants to play senior AFL football."

After his very good performance in Round 13 against Collingwood the following 2 matches looked like this.

Round 14 against Port - 9 touches 2 marks and 1 behind. Played the full game.

Round 15 against Melbourne - 0 touches in the first half, before being subbed off in the third quarter with 1 handball next to his name.

That's all well and good he wants to play senior football, but no team in the competition will put up with 2 terrible performances in a row.

[w3design]

Why are people so keen to get rid of Jones when there are 5 players worst than him on our list.

What is the point of your question? I personally did not care either way just do not see losing someone who has not stepped up or developed in a reasonable time frame to a KPP as being a big issue. People are saying we are losing our only KPP. Disagree, Jones is not a KPP, he is a tall player who has shown small glimpses of ability, but a kpp he is not.

Will he make it elsewhere, maybe, but have moved on. Are thee others that should go to, yes.

I am more concerned about getting more kpp's on the list to develop as you know 1 in 2 will not make it at all But while we have a dearth of kpps I cannot for the life of m work out why w draft smalls to mediums after pick 40. This is only ok if we have a full quota of kpps on our list

[jeemak]

This is strange for me:

"It's fair to say that Liam's been a bit frustrated this year with the lack of opportunities in the last couple of months."

Eight to ten weeks of him not getting his own way and he wants out? I'd guess the screws have been turned on him and he doesn't like it, or he doesn't like the way he's been managed by the coaching group.

He's had a pretty good run at the Bulldogs in terms of opportunity versus output. The fact he can't see that makes me think he either lacks intelligence and or needs to grow up, or there's a personality conflict that's not being talked about.

[Greystache]

That says it all for me.

"He's had his struggles at the Bulldogs. He's been that lone forward at times.

"If he gets to a club where there's the opportunity to play as that second tall forward, I think you could see his career blossom."

He wants a club with more snow to ski down. Pretty much sums up his career and why he won't make it.

[Bulldog Revolution]

It was stupid not to give him another chance after two bad games, particularly with his contract situation

He was playing well enough in the VFL to get another chance, but the club decided on tough love

Lets hope we get a good outcome - a third round pick is almost of no value to us, unless we delist a few more, given it would be our 5th pick overall

[1eyedog]

That says it all for me.

"He's had his struggles at the Bulldogs. He's been that lone forward at times.

"If he gets to a club where there's the opportunity to play as that second tall forward, I think you could see his career blossom."

He wants a club with more snow to ski down. Pretty much sums up his career and why he won't make it.

He had / has the opportunity to play second tall. Stringer is nearly 6'4 and has effectively been our 'tall' forward because Jones simply can't handle the mustard.