Our Worrying Defence

[Eastdog]

What do you reckon? Our forward line looks like its getting better especially with the great get in Tom Boyd, our midfield is decent and our defence well for me that's the concern. Our rucks are decent. This is the next thing will have to focus on now.

[comrade]

I'm quite bullish on Roberts and Talia as long term defensive options but agree, it's an area that needs urgent attention.

With our picks in the 20, one should be used for the best key defender available.

And I think we should go hard at a gun key defender during next year's trade period.

[BulldogBelle]

This end of the ground does need some serious attention.
Hopefully some of our young defenders come on but we still need to be drafting in more quality defenders.
If we can get it right we will be a very good team.

[Templeton31]

too late to swap one of the 20s picks for Sauce Merrett?

[Go_Dogs]

Good thread, ED.

I tend to agree with comrade, we need to try and identify a key defender with our first selection in the draft this year. Tom Lamb is potentially a bloke who may be around the mark, although perhaps not quite a genuine key defender size.

Given we have now recruited Boyd as a forward, and we will have a new coach presumably with some new ideas, it will be interesting to see whether we persist with Roughead as a key defender. We also must continue to hope that Talia and Roberts can develop their games and become key defenders for us.

[Bigboyjp]

Morris is still our trump card down back. With his wisdom hopefully he can teach Roberts, Talia and Cordy how to body and spoil there opponent. Roughy hopefully can take his game another step forward this year with one or two of the younger guys coming on, so Morris can be the general down back. We desperately need more height with some of the monster forwards in the game these days.

[GVGjr]

too late to swap one of the 20s picks for Sauce Merrett?

Wouldn't need to be one of those picks. 45 would get it done

[Rocket Science]

too late to swap one of the 20s picks for Sauce Merrett?

Wonder if they've cooled on parting with him having dealt Patfull.

He'd be handy and lend a bit of steel to a young squad.

[Dry Rot]

Wouldn't need to be one of those picks. 45 would get it done

I'd do that.

[Cyberdoggie]

Pick 6 would of been nice for Jake Lever. Looks like a born leader and tough as nails.

[bulldogtragic]

Pick 6 would of been nice for Jake Lever. Looks like a born leader and tough as nails.

So is Tom Boyd.

[1eyedog]

Pick 6 would of been nice for Jake Lever. Looks like a born leader and tough as nails.

Yeah can't have them all hey.

[FrediKanoute]

We have options though. Could Stringer end up as a key back? What about Foster if he falls to us a rookie and Redpath? Not "A" grade, but useful. I always feel that you take a good tall who is mobile and can read the play and turn them into a CHB. Reading the play is key.

[KT31]

We have options though. Could Stringer end up as a key back? What about Foster if he falls to us a rookie and Redpath? Not "A" grade, but useful. I always feel that you take a good tall who is mobile and can read the play and turn them into a CHB. Reading the play is key.

The way this trade period is going I have no doubt Foster will fall through to us as a rookie.

[Eastdog]

How did you guys think it held up last Saturday night. Will Roughy recapture his form down there?

[bornadog]

How did you guys think it held up last Saturday night. Will Roughy recapture his form down there?

Every time the ball was in the air in the backline, I was nervous as hell. Roughead and Talia seemed to hold up well and of course Morris was his usual consistent self. Murphy hasn't lost his touch and Wood is doing his job, although he still doesn't get enough of the ball. JJ needs to improve his disposal, but otherwise his run and carry was very good.

We need this group to gel together and form a formidable team.

[craigsahibee]

As long as the mids and forwards bring that manic level of intensity each week and apply enough pressure to the opposition to force high balls into our defensive 50, I believe our backs will grow to be more than capable. As BAD has said, if we can get continuity into our back 6 / 7 we have the makings of a very solid defensive unit. Roberts and Hamling can provide great cover if any of the talls fall over. I have faith in this lot. I reckon we'll be ok

[LostDoggy]

So far this year I feel very safe when the ball is kicked in long towards our defensive fifty and Roughy is in the vincinty. He's confidence is back, he's getting a fist in when required and even taking the grab when the opportunity arises.

Our backline truly was sensational on the weekend. Yes West Coast kicked some very easy goals, but that was a team defence issue which started in our forward half.

[SonofScray]

The experience down there is a huge now with Boyd, Morris and Murphy. Smart move to send Boyd there, a reflection on his leadership that he has taken to the role and happily sacrificing his game rather than smoking about being asked to change.

The progression of the backline this season will be interesting, it's longevity is probably the concern now, rather than its capability.

[boydogs]

The experience down there is a huge now with Boyd, Morris and Murphy. Smart move to send Boyd there, a reflection on his leadership that he has taken to the role and happily sacrificing his game rather than smoking about being asked to change.

The progression of the backline this season will be interesting, it's longevity is probably the concern now, rather than its capability.

Biggs, Darley, Hamling & Z Cordy will have some big shoes to fill

[jeemak]

I'm concerned with Talia and Roughead being able to adjust to situations where the opposition presents a forward line similar to the forward line we present to the opposition.

In my view you need at least one quick tall, and Morris aside (and Morris isn't tall) we don't have a player that can fill that criteria.

[Mantis]

The progression of the backline this season will be interesting, it's longevity is probably the concern now, rather than its capability.

Agree with this.. In a developing team it's probably not great that we have our 3 oldest players all in one part of the ground.. We desperately need to get games into the like of Darley, Biggs, Hamling, etc..

[Mofra]

In my view you need at least one quick tall, and Morris aside (and Morris isn't tall) we don't have a player that can fill that criteria.
Bingo. Teams generally play 3 guys who in past years would have been legitimate KPFs.
We have to hope Talia & Roughy develop well and one of Hamling or Cordy come on (I like Roberts but he is slow).

[bornadog]

Bingo. Teams generally play 3 guys who in past years would have been legitimate KPFs.
We have to hope Talia & Roughy develop well and one of Hamling or Cordy come on (I like Roberts but he is slow).

Hamling needs to put on weight and muscle, he is not a KPP but could develop into one.

[Mofra]

Hamling needs to put on weight and muscle, he is not a KPP but could develop into one.
If he develops into the "quick tall" he can fill a role. We should have Talia, Roughy and Roberts capable of taking the monsters, with Talia perhaps flexible enough with Hamling to take the quicker talls. Zaine Cordy is many years away so it would be brave to put him into the calculations.

I'd be surprised if we don't take a tall defender in the next few drafts - the lead time is so long you don't know how they'll turn out, and Morris in in his last couple of seasons.

[boydogs]

I'd be surprised if we don't take a tall defender in the next few drafts - the lead time is so long you don't know how they'll turn out, and Morris in in his last couple of seasons.

Is drafting KP's the way to go for us now? Even Zaine might not have peaked when we are in our window

We've clearly got a special group of kids around the same age (Libba, Stringer, Macrae, Dahlhaus, Boyd, Roughead, Hrovat, Hunter) that will enable us to contest for a flag, I think our recruiting should be based around bringing in players that peak in that 2017-2021 period. We already started down this track with Boyd, Hamling & Biggs last year as mature agers

[Go_Dogs]

Is drafting KP's the way to go for us now? Even Zaine might not have peaked when we are in our window

You'd hope Zaine has begun to play consistent senior footy by 2020!

It's an interesting question, and I guess subject to when out window opens and how long it will be open. Given the age of our players I don't think its too far a stretch to say in the early 20's it will still be well and truly open. I like the idea of looking for both a ready made and developing options.

[jeemak]

If he tracks the same progress as his brother we might be waiting a while!

[boydogs]

You'd hope Zaine has begun to play consistent senior footy by 2020!

He isn't 6'8" but his brother is a year older than Zaine will be in 2020 and just starting to put it together


It's an interesting question, and I guess subject to when out window opens and how long it will be open. Given the age of our players I don't think its too far a stretch to say in the early 20's it will still be well and truly open. I like the idea of looking for both a ready made and developing options.

Tom Liberatore will be 29 in 2021, Jordan Roughead will be 31. We won't necessarily fall off the cliff after that with the 2014 draftees peaking then, but I think we will start to move past the best years of some of our elite group

A KP drafted at the end of this year will assuming a November 1997 birthdate only turn 24 after the completion of the 2021 season, and be younger than Ayce Cordy & Jack Redpath are now for the entirety of that 2017-2021 window

[azabob]

The boys appeared very composed and trusting of each other today. Roughead and Talia are so far holding firm which allows Morris to play third tall and help chop out. Murphy is Murphy, Wood and JJ are providing good run. But the biggest surprise is the ease with which Matt Boyd has taken to playing in defense and is queit effective.

Coupled with the whole team having the desire to pressure the ball carrier and attack the lose ball is pleasing.

[westdog54]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2015-04-14/defensive-brilliance

Watch this video and try telling me our backline isn't on the right track.

[dukedog]

I know they are just highlights. Of course the ball got through easy at times. But. Easily the best defensive structure i have seen in a while from the boys. I remember back in 2008-09 when bobby was playing forward and was a sniper on goal. but he is just a well rounded footaballer. oozes class. his articles arn't half bad either. Just to add my 2c .... i think some of the guys that asked for trades did the club a favour. bar Griffen i think the rest were under performing in a walk up spot in the 22. looking at the list now. The boys know that if they dont put in . they wont get a game under bevo

[Eastdog]

I thought despite us conceding a lot more goals yesterday our defence tried hard and it didn't help losing Dale Morris who I thought was very good. Will be good to get Easton Wood's run back when he comes back in the side. Disappointing we didn't shut down Issac Smith from them a bit more. How did posters rate Roughy's game yesterday?

[jazzadogs]

I think our defence was actually on top in many areas yesterday.

Gunston, Breust, Rioli and Puopolo had minimal impact on the game, well controlled by a team defence (Picken, Webb, Johannisen)
It may sound stupid, but I think Roughead/Talia competed and often beat Roughead/resting talls. Despite Jarryd finishing with 7 goals, most of these were directly from midfield turnovers where our guys were up field providing options for their teammates.
The biggest area where our defence faltered was the counter-attacking run, particularly our skills. Murphy was especially disappointing, but really it was just effective pressure from the Hawks and poor presenting from our forwards.

[bulldogtragic]

Recruit May from GCS. Put him in FB with Talia at CHB. Wood and Bob as support. Use Roughy as a ruck, back or 2nd forward as the games dictate.

Hamling, Kelly, Roberts, Zaine developing.

Simple.

[azabob]

Well BT, you are our number two recruiter...

[bulldogtragic]

Well BT, you are our number two recruiter...

Number 2... I masterminded the Boyd deal as you know. Surely that makes me number 1? :)

But to the point, I'm just working out who we can get currency with to trade them. They need some inside grunt, so I'm trying to work out who they'd want and then who'd we give... It could be an Ottens like trade for us.

[bornadog]

I think our defence was actually on top in many areas yesterday.

Gunston, Breust, Rioli and Puopolo had minimal impact on the game, well controlled by a team defence (Picken, Webb, Johannisen)
It may sound stupid, but I think Roughead/Talia competed and often beat Roughead/resting talls. Despite Jarryd finishing with 7 goals, most of these were directly from midfield turnovers where our guys were up field providing options for their teammates.
The biggest area where our defence faltered was the counter-attacking run, particularly our skills. Murphy was especially disappointing, but really it was just effective pressure from the Hawks and poor presenting from our forwards.

We had more rebound 50s than Hawthorn, but just didn't use the ball well enough.

[G-Mo77]

6 - 8 weeks for Morris. Huge blow but m good chance for someone to have a long stint at AFL level. Hamling and Roberts need to grab this chance with bith hands.

[boydogs]

But to the point, I'm just working out who we can get currency with to trade them. They need some inside grunt, so I'm trying to work out who they'd want and then who'd we give... It could be an Ottens like trade for us.

We've had our CHF subbed off in the first 2 weeks saved only by injury in the 3rd, and you think our Ottens trade is for a defender?

[bornadog]

6 - 8 weeks for Morris. Huge blow but m good chance for someone to have a long stint at AFL level. Hamling and Roberts need to grab this chance with bith hands.

I would like to see Hamling in for Morris. Hamling is more your third tall and not a KPP at this stage.

Roberts can replace Cordy up forward.

[bulldogtragic]

We've had our CHF subbed off in the first 2 weeks saved only by injury in the 3rd, and you think our Ottens trade is for a defender?

Yep. Two genuine key backs (May and Talia) and a string of tall defenders (Hamling, Roberts, Cordy, Kelly, Wood, Bob, Biggs). Allowing Roughead to play back if needed, or ruck, or CH forward or be our swing man. He was a gun young ruck, and has shown some limitations as a KPD but could have good match ups. I think Roughy & Boyd could be a good tag team. I think our coach would love a ruckman that is dangerous around the ground and can mark, can take a big tall defender or go down back to help the unit if he's needed. We need an experienced ruckman next year, and getting a gun junior ruck with games and seasons wouldn't be cheap, and we could have one. That to me is worth thinking about, seriously.

[bornadog]

Yep. Two genuine key backs (May and Talia) and a string of tall defenders (Hamling, Roberts, Cordy, Kelly, Wood, Bob, Biggs). Allowing Roughead to play back if needed, or ruck, or CH forward or be our swing man. He was a gun young ruck, and has shown some limitations as a KPD but could have good match ups. I think Roughy & Boyd could be a good tag team. I think our coach would love a ruckman that is dangerous around the ground and can mark, can take a big tall defender or go down back to help the unit if he's needed. We need an experienced ruckman next year, and getting a gun junior ruck with games and seasons wouldn't be cheap, and we could have one. That to me is worth thinking about, seriously.


I like your thinking. We need Roberts to start showing something and we can implement this in the next 5 to 10 weeks.

[Before I Die]

I would like to see Hamling in for Morris. Hamling is more your third tall and not a KPP at this stage.

Roberts can replace Cordy up forward.

I don't understand why this keeps getting said. He has been playing CHB in the Footscray practice games and CHB on Saturday, and has been doing a good job. He is 194cm and over 90kg. He has a good leap, reads the ball well and is a strong mark. Of course he is a CHB.

[comrade]

Yep. Two genuine key backs (May and Talia) and a string of tall defenders (Hamling, Roberts, Cordy, Kelly, Wood, Bob, Biggs). Allowing Roughead to play back if needed, or ruck, or CH forward or be our swing man. He was a gun young ruck, and has shown some limitations as a KPD but could have good match ups. I think Roughy & Boyd could be a good tag team. I think our coach would love a ruckman that is dangerous around the ground and can mark, can take a big tall defender or go down back to help the unit if he's needed. We need an experienced ruckman next year, and getting a gun junior ruck with games and seasons wouldn't be cheap, and we could have one. That to me is worth thinking about, seriously.

This would be a dream result.

Releasing Roughy up the field would really set us up like Hawthorn does.

If we could snare a gun key back AND add some more mid field polish, we're *almost* set.

[bulldogtragic]

This would be a dream result.

Releasing Roughy up the field would really set us up like Hawthorn does.

If we could snare a gun key back AND add some more mid field polish, we're *almost* set.

Yep, and Yep, that's why we can't trade Macrae, Hrovat etc who have great skills. If we are to trade for a May type I think our second rounder and a player is the value. So names like Stevens, Honey and Smith come up to me as for teams wanting some grunt and a player with upside. I'd be reluctant to trade them, but the impact on the team of a big KPD and Roughy would be worth more.

[comrade]

Yep, and Yep, that's why we can't trade Macrae, Hrovat etc who have great skills. If we are to trade for a May type I think our second rounder and a player is the value. So names like Stevens, Honey and Smith come up to me as for teams wanting some grunt and a player with upside. I'd be reluctant to trade them, but the impact on the team of a big KPD and Roughy would be worth more.

Big Stevie re-signed until end of 2017. I think it will take more than our 2nd rounder and Honey/Smith.

Let's hope he has a massive falling out with his teammates or coaching staff.

Gee, I wish Roberts could get it together and be a viable key defender for us.

[LostDoggy]

Redders at CHB?
Played half a year there in the VFL side last year.

[bulldogtragic]

Big Stevie re-signed until end of 2017. I think it will take more than our 2nd rounder and Honey/Smith.

Let's hope he has a massive falling out with his teammates or coaching staff.

Gee, I wish Roberts could get it together and be a viable key defender for us.

I'm projecting good seasons for both when I named those two. If Honeychurch ended up top 10 in the RS, or Smith came back to dominate then those fellas. I think we offer years over too many dollars. Offer May 5 years on good coin, and get him to do a Boyd and get his manager to say he's coming to the Dogs under FA the year after. It's a tried and true method! :)

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think our defence was actually on top in many areas yesterday.

Gunston, Breust, Rioli and Puopolo had minimal impact on the game, well controlled by a team defence (Picken, Webb, Johannisen)
It may sound stupid, but I think Roughead/Talia competed and often beat Roughead/resting talls. Despite Jarryd finishing with 7 goals, most of these were directly from midfield turnovers where our guys were up field providing options for their teammates.
The biggest area where our defence faltered was the counter-attacking run, particularly our skills. Murphy was especially disappointing, but really it was just effective pressure from the Hawks and poor presenting from our forwards.

Without Wood M Boyd and Morris from our good first up wins the defence was always going to be under pressure. Hawthorn's impeccable ball use going forward was always going to put the backline under pressure. Talia was the stand out in an excellent performance. Bevo's biggest challenge is to develop our kicking skills which is below par when compared with the better teams in the competition.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Need to keep our eyes peeled, Port did very well to snare Hombsch (sp?) without giving up too much. Hamling looks a good third tall defender and we got him for nothing. We might not have to pay the world for a good key defender. Robbie Tarrant could be an option (injuries permitting).

We were interested in May last year but he re-signed.

I'd throw a bit at Rance given his strengths are Talia's/Roughy's weaknesses - pace and closing speed.

[boydogs]

Yep. Two genuine key backs (May and Talia) and a string of tall defenders (Hamling, Roberts, Cordy, Kelly, Wood, Bob, Biggs). Allowing Roughead to play back if needed, or ruck, or CH forward or be our swing man. He was a gun young ruck, and has shown some limitations as a KPD but could have good match ups. I think Roughy & Boyd could be a good tag team. I think our coach would love a ruckman that is dangerous around the ground and can mark, can take a big tall defender or go down back to help the unit if he's needed. We need an experienced ruckman next year, and getting a gun junior ruck with games and seasons wouldn't be cheap, and we could have one. That to me is worth thinking about, seriously.

May is 190cm, same height as Morris. Play him on the KPF's from May's team and we get destroyed

The need for a super tall KPD snuck up on us with the increased flexibility of ruckmen and increased height of the next generation - GC & GWS have the biggest forward lines in the comp. Roughead to FB was a masterstroke from Macca and has filled that need for us

Trading to replace Roughead with a player 10cm shorter than him in the hopes Roughead can fill a gap somewhere else doesn't make sense. If Roughead was better suited somewhere else he would be playing there now, but 2 coaches have played him at FB. He is slow but so are his opponents, he is doing well and should be allowed to continue to develop in that role and gel with the defensive group

Given how Campbell, Redpath & Cordy are going, the Ottens trade we really need is Ottens

[bulldogtragic]

May is 190cm, same height as Morris. Play him on the KPF's from May's team and we get destroyed

The need for a super tall KPD snuck up on us with the increased flexibility of ruckmen and increased height of the next generation - GC & GWS have the biggest forward lines in the comp. Roughead to FB was a masterstroke from Macca and has filled that need for us

Trading to replace Roughead with a player 10cm shorter than him in the hopes Roughead can fill a gap somewhere else doesn't make sense. If Roughead was better suited somewhere else he would be playing there now, but 2 coaches have played him at FB. He is slow but so are his opponents, he is doing well and should be allowed to continue to develop in that role and gel with the defensive group

Given how Campbell & Cordy are going, the Ottens trade we really need is Ottens

Substitute May for another tall you'd be happy with if you don't like him (Rance etc). Roughy is a limited defender, as much as I love him. The reason he's still down FB is because there's no one better at his height (see Ayce Cordy). He offers competence as a ruck, and a CHF or second forward and as a defender where we want the match up on our terms. I believe Roughy is competent enough to be able to play any role we want for him and the going price on a competent ruck, defender and forward player is a premium. Our ruck situation is dire and we need a good ruck second forward. If we can improve on him with a better defender we win that area, then Roughy immediately improves our ruck stocks and our forward stocks and we also know he can play defence if we get injuries or match ups. Take the weekend, Roughy would be cover not Ayce and that's a big difference. It might seem counter intuitive, but going at another key forward with cash and the trade wouldn't be best value for us.

[LostDoggy]

I'm not sold on the Roughead moving Forward/2nd ruck and being a success.. He has played this position at AFL level several times over the years and has never really showed anything. Hence now playing as a KPD. Dominating a certain position at junior level does not always translate to senior AFL footy.

A lot of pressure coming from coaches to scrap the sub rule. This could really work in our favour. If we went back to having 4 on the bench with no sub, do we think Campbell and Minson may just work?

[Remi Moses]

Ditto for me . This move Roughy forward / ruck opinion ain't going to happen.
He's been groomed for a long period as a full back, so let's go with it.
Our mids got smashed on Sunday, that was our biggest worry.

[Remi Moses]

Substitute May for another tall you'd be happy with if you don't like him (Rance etc). Roughy is a limited defender, as much as I love him. The reason he's still down FB is because there's no one better at his height (see Ayce Cordy). He offers competence as a ruck, and a CHF or second forward and as a defender where we want the match up on our terms. I believe Roughy is competent enough to be able to play any role we want for him and the going price on a competent ruck, defender and forward player is a premium. Our ruck situation is dire and we need a good ruck second forward. If we can improve on him with a better defender we win that area, then Roughy immediately improves our ruck stocks and our forward stocks and we also know he can play defence if we get injuries or match ups. Take the weekend, Roughy would be cover not Ayce and that's a big difference. It might seem counter intuitive, but going at another key forward with cash and the trade wouldn't be best value for us.
I reckon you're underselling him as a backmen, he's still relatively inexperienced in the role and you couldn't judge on last seasons form. Played with one arm for virtually all season

[Go_Dogs]

BT, how confident are you Roughead can now develop into a very good second forward/ruck?

Given the number of giants who spend considerable time forward, he's just about the perfect bloke to have who can play key defence.

I'm not against him taking a turn in the ruck when he can, but he's got more runs on the board as a defender, rather than forward now.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, how confident are you Roughead can now develop into a very good second forward/ruck?

Given the number of giants who spend considerable time forward, he's just about the perfect bloke to have who can play key defence.

I'm not against him taking a turn in the ruck when he can, but he's got more runs on the board as a defender, rather than forward now.

Hawthorn have four genuine key backs, so the more we can get the better. If the Didnt have a gun forward line id imagine Frawley would be used back or forward as required with match ups. That's what a Roughy could offer, as well as in the ruck. As a pure defender I think we are limiting our return on his vast abilities and to have him down back on resting rucks is not a great return for us. Bevo is clearly moving ahead with a few Hawthorn like things and a top line full back means we have the luxury to play Rought back if we want, or ruck if we want, or forward if we want. That to me is a powerful card up Bevos sleeve and makes us better by having an improved full back, but then releasing Roughy to be a better ruck option, forward option and gives serious cover if a defender gets injured.

[Bulldog Joe]

Hawthorn have four genuine key backs, so the more we can get the better. If the Didnt have a gun forward line id imagine Frawley would be used back or forward as required with match ups. That's what a Roughy could offer, as well as in the ruck. As a pure defender I think we are limiting our return on his vast abilities and to have him down back on resting rucks is not a great return for us. Bevo is clearly moving ahead with a few Hawthorn like things and a top line full back means we have the luxury to play Rought back if we want, or ruck if we want, or forward if we want. That to me is a powerful card up Bevos sleeve and makes us better by having an improved full back, but then releasing Roughy to be a better ruck option, forward option and gives serious cover if a defender gets injured.

Sorry BT, but I cannot agree.

Also not sure who you have as the 4 genuine key backs at Hawthorn.

For me they only have 2 in Lake and Frawley but cover it with a great system. They have undersized players in Gibson (shorter than Dale Morris), Stratton and even Burgoyne who use the system.
Birchall is actually the taller player but rarely does he play tall.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry BT, but I cannot agree.

Also not sure who you have as the 4 genuine key backs at Hawthorn.

For me they only have 2 in Lake and Frawley but cover it with a great system. They have undersized players in Gibson (shorter than Dale Morris), Stratton and even Burgoyne who use the system.
Birchall is actually the taller player but rarely does he play tall.

Lake, Frawley, Schoenmakers and Gibson plays as one. We can agree to disagree, but I believe in Roughies ability to be a gun multi role player.

[stefoid]

There is much talk about Carlisle on the BF board. Dogs supporter, prefers to play in defence, hasnt resigned yet, and of course there would be an offer on the table from half a dozen clubs, including us. Im not willing to discount it after the Tom Boyd trade.

Carlisle and Roughead have every tall man position covered between them. Talk about versatile.

In a perfect world you could swing Roughead or Carlilse to FF and let Boyd play CHF where he could be involved in more 1:1 contests and have a greater influence on general play.

[lemmon]

There is much talk about Carlisle on the BF board. Dogs supporter, prefers to play in defence, hasnt resigned yet, and of course there would be an offer on the table from half a dozen clubs, including us. Im not willing to discount it after the Tom Boyd trade.

Carlisle and Roughead have every tall man position covered between them. Talk about versatile.

In a perfect world you could swing Roughead or Carlilse to FF and let Boyd play CHF where he could be involved in more 1:1 contests and have a greater influence on general play.

Going to cost us our first rounder and a good player I'd have thought, it's a hell of a lot to pay for a guy you'd have to play as your real gorilla full back when we already have one. I appreciate the free Roughy up argument but the trade really depends on Roughead than being able to make it as a forward/second ruck which at best has been untested, at worst has been a failure.

Basically what I'm saying is for the trade to be a win we'd need Carlisle to become an excellent full back and have Roughead make an impact in whatever spot he's moved to, otherwise we're selling a fair amount to get another fairly similar version of the guy we already have.

[stefoid]

Going to cost us our first rounder and a good player I'd have thought, it's a hell of a lot to pay for a guy you'd have to play as your real gorilla full back when we already have one. I appreciate the free Roughy up argument but the trade really depends on Roughead than being able to make it as a forward/second ruck which at best has been untested, at worst has been a failure.

Basically what I'm saying is for the trade to be a win we'd need Carlisle to become an excellent full back and have Roughead make an impact in whatever spot he's moved to, otherwise we're selling a fair amount to get another fairly similar version of the guy we already have.

Carlisle plays CHB in defence. So Talia could go to FB. Would enable us to play Roughead wherever we need him - back ruck or forward.

[lemmon]

Carlisle plays CHB in defence. So Talia could go to FB. Would enable us to play Roughead wherever we need him - back ruck or forward.

It's just working on the assumption that Roughy becomes a good ruckman or forward which we haven't seen

[josie]

From what little I've seen of Carlisle he is a quicker, better backman than Roughy, and is also more than handy up forward.

I'd love to have him at the Dogs. If that means Roughy plays elsewhere, so be it.

[lemmon]

From what little I've seen of Carlisle he is a quicker, better backman than Roughy, and is also more than handy up forward.

I'd love to have him at the Dogs. If that means Roughy plays elsewhere, so be it.

Make no mistake I'd love Carlisle but if the price is our first rounder and Hrovat does that change things? If there's a good young CHB in the draft I'd rather we went back to that well rather than pay a premium

[Greystache]

Make no mistake I'd love Carlisle but if the price is our first rounder and Hrovat does that change things? If there's a good young CHB in the draft I'd rather we went back to that well rather than pay a premium

That would be market rate and I'd happily pay it. We could just as easily use our first round pick on a key defender that is either average or worse a complete bust. A 23 Carlisle is a much safer bet.

[jeemak]

I'd happily offer a first round pick and Hrovat for Carlisle as well.

Carlisle, Roughead and Talia as our three tall defenders would be a dream come true.

Not all of them are going to have a good game every week, and some of them are going to struggle with planned match ups which is why we need coverage in the area. As it stands now, we don't have enough flexibility down back to cover the best and most diverse forward lines.

If Hamling can come along as Morris slows down, and we had these backs at our disposal then of course you could throw Roughead and Carlisle forward from time to time depending on the opposition.

[Remi Moses]

Dealing with Essendon is like negotiating with overseas terror organisations .
Carlisle won't be coming over

[Webby]

Geez, developing a player like Frost from Collingwood would be great. He's a gem.

[Greystache]

Geez, developing a player like Frost from Collingwood would be great. He's a gem.

We were keen on him but decided not to draft him because of injury concerns. Probably a bit tall for us really.

[stefoid]

Dealing with Essendon is like negotiating with overseas terror organisations .
Carlisle won't be coming over

Hes out of contract, and if he nominates us, the deal gets done, just like Crameri and Ryder.

FWIW, Ryder went for picks 17 and 37.

Im not saying hes the absolute best fit for us, but hes a pretty good one, and more to the point, its totally plausible, with him liking the dogs, liking money, and not having resigned.

If he announces that "contract talks are being put on hold until the end of the year" then it will be on like Donkey Kong.

[bulldogtragic]

A part from freeing Roughy up, if we can have genuine sized defenders taking big players, guys like Bob, Wood, Biggs, Z. Cordy can play on guys their own size and play more offensive roles. When Hargy and Gilbee got to play on blokes their size they turned into very good players almost overnight.

So having Roughy at 24 with a big body and good hands up the ground should be a great result and allows us flexibility to drop him back on David Hale type ruck/fwds or take the first or second ruck role or go forward to take a bigger defender off Stringer or Crameri which again has a good flow on.

At some point in time we all know deep down that a small is being traded out. We've stock piled them and it's the obvious area we can cover. I'm an unabashed Hrovat fan, but if a big trade that changes our structures for so much benefit comes along then (for me) I'm affraid he could be our Moloney trade player. Essendon have been into JJ and if he keeps developing they might want him. If we have a top 6 pick I'd want a swap of first rounders = Us: Carlisle, 12. Them: 6, 26 and Hrovat.

[jeemak]

^I've said for a long time BT that a big reason we've gone heavy on smaller types that can clearly play, and bolstered our list in this area is because we're ultimately going to trade one or some of them out once they've developed some currency and our finals tilt is drawn together.

My pick at this stage would be Dahl. He has developed the currency, but in my view is never going to be as polished with the footy as some of the others we have on our list, and sits at the closest to his ceiling in effectiveness. It's a tough call on him perhaps, but the deficiencies that held him back from being drafted are becoming more prolific as he takes on more responsibility within the team.

I might get pilloried for this point of view, but players of his size that can't finish by foot and who panic with the ball cost games.

[comrade]

^I've said for a long time BT that a big reason we've gone heavy on smaller types that can clearly play, and bolstered our list in this area is because we're ultimately going to trade one or some of them out once they've developed some currency and our finals tilt is drawn together.

My pick at this stage would be Dahl. He has developed the currency, but in my view is never going to be as polished with the footy as some of the others we have on our list, and sits at the closest to his ceiling in effectiveness. It's a tough call on him perhaps, but the deficiencies that held him back from being drafted are becoming more prolific as he takes on more responsibility within the team.

I might get pilloried for this point of view, but players of his size that can't finish by foot and who panic with the ball cost games.

I feel dirty, but I tend to agree.

He has so many good qualities, but I doubt he'll ever iron out the kicking and decision making errors he makes under pressure.

It would be a huge risk trading him out though. He's the face of the club for a lot of young supporters, and I've no doubt he's a big presence and spiritual leader type amongst the playing group.

[stefoid]

^I've said for a long time BT that a big reason we've gone heavy on smaller types that can clearly play, and bolstered our list in this area is because we're ultimately going to trade one or some of them out once they've developed some currency and our finals tilt is drawn together.

My pick at this stage would be Dahl. He has developed the currency, but in my view is never going to be as polished with the footy as some of the others we have on our list, and sits at the closest to his ceiling in effectiveness. It's a tough call on him perhaps, but the deficiencies that held him back from being drafted are becoming more prolific as he takes on more responsibility within the team.

I might get pilloried for this point of view, but players of his size that can't finish by foot and who panic with the ball cost games.

As a mid, yes, but as a forward pocket he could be one of the best - dont forget he is Mr Pressure, a legitimate marking target for his size, and when he is close to goal, his decision making and field kicking arent an issue - hes a decent snap for goal.

[1eyedog]

If you want to break the hearts of 10,000 kids trade him out. I agree we have a number of his type now, quick and aggressive, but it will be an almost impossible task convincing the club not to mention our young supporters that this is the right approach for the greater benefit of the club.

He's a marketing legend, he's over everything, and that is just if not more important than whether he is kicking at 65% or 85%.

[bulldogtragic]

^I've said for a long time BT that a big reason we've gone heavy on smaller types that can clearly play, and bolstered our list in this area is because we're ultimately going to trade one or some of them out once they've developed some currency and our finals tilt is drawn together.

My pick at this stage would be Dahl. He has developed the currency, but in my view is never going to be as polished with the footy as some of the others we have on our list, and sits at the closest to his ceiling in effectiveness. It's a tough call on him perhaps, but the deficiencies that held him back from being drafted are becoming more prolific as he takes on more responsibility within the team.

I might get pilloried for this point of view, but players of his size that can't finish by foot and who panic with the ball cost games.

Seems we think alike. The marketing manager might not like it, but if the price was right then he's not free from trading. With Bonts, Stringer & Boyd I think we've got enough big name players to cover Dahl's appeal too. If I was another team I'd prefer Hrovat but a team needing a face to boost membership then Dahl would do. It's a tough business but Geelong got a dynasty with a big names trade.

[jeemak]

I like his marking, it's his major point of difference against players of his size.

His set shot finishing and last mile kicking when playing forward is too much of a risk for me though.

This might sound cold, but supporters of AFL clubs young and old, move on pretty quickly, and if trading out Dahl is a part of our success then I'm pretty sure everyone will get over it.

[dukedog]

I agree with statements about Dahl. But remember in this day and age a footy club isn't just about having the best players. Marketing gems control financials. Its just a fact of life. Dahl has too much upside. It would never happen. Unless the said player was unhappy and wanted to go.

[josie]

I'd happily offer a first round pick and Hrovat for Carlisle as well.

Carlisle, Roughead and Talia as our three tall defenders would be a dream come true.

Not all of them are going to have a good game every week, and some of them are going to struggle with planned match ups which is why we need coverage in the area. As it stands now, we don't have enough flexibility down back to cover the best and most diverse forward lines.

If Hamling can come along as Morris slows down, and we had these backs at our disposal then of course you could throw Roughead and Carlisle forward from time to time depending on the opposition.

Me too, as long as we can pay Bonti, Stringer, Macrae, Dahl when they come out of contract in 2017/8.

[jeemak]

I'd be pretty disappointed if any of our list management decisions were in any way affected by our marketing team.

The kids will follow the adults, after all, how else did they get into this mess in the fist place? If the adults are able to be reasonable about things, the kids will follow.

We'll just give them another hero to look up to and they'll be fine. Kids are fickle that way.

[ratsmac]

After yesterday's Anzac day performance, I'm not too sure about Carlisle. He looked really slow. I know it was wet but he was slow. However, a player like Carlisle does help with our structure a lot. It would defs release pressure off of Roughy and the other backs. I would love to see Roughead used as the extra in the back line. He reads the flight of the ball well and has sure hands. Our first rounder and Hrovat is about right but I would really hate to see Hrovat go. Let them have Cordy!

[stefoid]

Given Ryder went for 17 + 37, is Carlisle worth our 1st rounder (probably between 7 and 12), plus Hrovat?
Id say not. Particularly if the dons keep playing him forward and he has an average year.

If Carlisle says he wants to come here, we are in the box seat, and we should be able to offer a sub-10 pick alone. If they are super keen on a player, we should be able to do better than simply throwing in our 1st as well.

[josie]

After yesterday's Anzac day performance, I'm not too sure about Carlisle. He looked really slow. I know it was wet but he was slow. However, a player like Carlisle does help with our structure a lot. It would defs release pressure off of Roughy and the other backs. I would love to see Roughead used as the extra in the back line. He reads the flight of the ball well and has sure hands. Our first rounder and Hrovat is about right but I would really hate to see Hrovat go. Let them have Cordy!

I did not watch the game, if he is no quicker than Roughy then perhaps not?

I listened to bit of the game on radio and the Bombers seemed to lack that a really high level of desperation/attack they are usually good at.

Does anyone else suspect that a few more of the Bombers players might be disaffected and want to leave at end of the year?

I like Hrovat and would also prefer to keep him if we can.

[Mantis]

I'd be pretty disappointed if any of our list management decisions were in any way affected by our marketing team.

The kids will follow the adults, after all, how else did they get into this mess in the fist place? If the adults are able to be reasonable about things, the kids will follow.

We'll just give them another hero to look up to and they'll be fine. Kids are fickle that way.

And then trade them?

If we were looking at trading Dahlhaus I doubt very much we would have extended his contract or made him the face of the club for our young supporters.

I can't see it happening.

[jeemak]

And then trade them?

If we were looking at trading Dahlhaus I doubt very much we would have extended his contract or made him the face of the club for our young supporters.

I can't see it happening.

If that's what it takes........

[stefoid]

Anyway, back to defence .. the current ruck shenanigans indicate the coach is shuffling the deck chairs trying to find the best 1st ruck + ruck/forward combination. Maybe the view is that Cordy and Campbell are so bad as forwards, that from a team perspective, we would be better off with minson as a forward and one of those guys as first ruck?

If we were able to free up Roughead from his defensive post without sacrificing defence, our options in the ruck and ruck/forward department would open up vastly.

[1eyedog]

If that's what it takes........

If that's what what takes? A premiership? Carlisle for Dahl and our first rounder? You're dreaming. Carlisle isn't worth it. He's an inconsistent mark, goes missing too often, is injury prone and has attitude problems. I'd rather chase Rance but I still wouldn't give up Dahl and our first rounder, plenty of others can do the job at a cheaper rate, Sydney with Grundy and Richards are a good example.

Dahl's a great player, two top 5 B&Fs, is only 22 and is the face of the club. I'm all for chasing a premiership but if you pull hard enough at the fabric of the club you'll tear it. If you start dangling one club players in front of other clubs when they don't want to go you're creating a poisonous, cancerous environment. You create a cut throat internal trade and exchange program the players take that as the bench mark and follow suit. Loyalty goes out the window.

You're underestimating just how much an effect what your proposing would have on the players and its supporters and your underestimating just how good Dahl will be and how critical he'll be when we finally get to Grand Final day.

[stefoid]

what a game by Dalhaus!

[Bulldog4life]

Keep all our youngsters. They are our future. Trade picks only. Otherwise look to the draft.

[josie]

Keep all our youngsters. They are our future. Trade picks only. Otherwise look to the draft.

After today's match I think I agree with you !!

Dahl is the heartbeat of our club, you can see how hard he tries his guts out. The impact on other players would be a big negative, as well as the young supporters if we traded out one of our young guns.

[1eyedog]

After today's match I think I agree with you !!

Dahl is the heartbeat of our club, you can see how hard he tries his guts out. The impact on other players would be a big negative, as well as the young supporters if we traded out one of our young guns.

Kicked an amazing goal last night, similar to the goal he kicked against West Coast. Was one of our best again he's having a great year.

[GVGjr]

The mens department was in stunning form against the Crows. Murphy was sensational. Wood took the game on and turned defence into attack. Talia had his best game against a dangerous opponent. Roughead was solid. M. Boyd was right up there with the best players. Johannisen also turned defence into attach and Webb was more than a solid contributor.

With Biggs and Morris to return it's a great problem to have.

[LostDoggy]

The mens department was in stunning form against the Crows. Murphy was sensational. Wood took the game on and turned defence into attack. Talia had his best game against a dangerous opponent. Roughead was solid. M. Boyd was right up there with the best players. Johannisen also turned defence into attach and Webb was more than a solid contributor.

With Biggs and Morris to return it's a great problem to have.
Is Biggs in our best side? I didn't see the vfl on the weekend but last week against box hill his disposal and decision making we're poor.

[Remi Moses]

Is Biggs in our best side? I didn't see the vfl on the weekend but last week against box hill his disposal and decision making we're poor.

In fairness to the guy he'd been out for about 5 weeks.

[LostDoggy]

There's also Darly who can play back

[ledge]

And Roberts

[1eyedog]

Is Biggs in our best side? I didn't see the vfl on the weekend but last week against box hill his disposal and decision making we're poor.

We'll find out. He has to relieve Webb at some stage.

[bornadog]

Is Biggs in our best side? I didn't see the vfl on the weekend but last week against box hill his disposal and decision making we're poor.

Let's not forget, he has only played 6 AFL games. He is no where near a best 22 (at this stage)

[azabob]

Let's not forget, he has only played 6 AFL games. He is no where near a best 22 (at this stage)

Webb has only played 2 and is best 22!

[Greystache]

Webb has only played 2 and is best 22!

Honeychurch 7, T Boyd 13, Jong 14 as well. If Biggs wasn't injured he'd be on 10 by now.

[bornadog]

Webb has only played 2 and is best 22!

We have seen Webb play and so far so good. Biggs has to prove himself and then get his chance.
In other words has to earn his spot.

[1eyedog]

Yep Webb drops off and Biggs plays well in the VFL then Biggs comes in. With Webb's good form and Biggs' potential I'm not sure where this leaves Darley.

[bornadog]

Yep Webb drops off and Biggs plays well in the VFL then Biggs comes in. With Webb's good form and Biggs' potential I'm not sure where this leaves Darley.

I have little hope for Darley and Fuller and feel both will be gone by year end.

[always right]

Yep Webb drops off and Biggs plays well in the VFL then Biggs comes in. With Webb's good form and Biggs' potential I'm not sure where this leaves Darley.

He's the same as Webb and Biggs. If he plays well at Footscray his chance will come. He has no less an opportunity than the other blokes.

[Happy Days]

Honeychurch 7, T Boyd 13, Jong 14 as well. If Biggs wasn't injured he'd be on 10 by now.

Does this mean Jong is RS eligible?

[Bulldog Joe]

I have little hope for Darley and Fuller and feel both will be gone by year end.

Apparently Darley had been given the nod for the Hawthorn game, but did his hammy in the last 10 mins of training.

He must still be on the radar for the coach.

[bornadog]

Apparently Darley had been given the nod for the Hawthorn game, but did his hammy in the last 10 mins of training.

He must still be on the radar for the coach.

Just a gut feel he will be delisted, but hey, if he plays well that would be great for us. Personally, I haven't seen much at AFL level to like.

[Sedat]

Just a gut feel he will be delisted, but hey, if he plays well that would be great for us. Personally, I haven't seen much at AFL level to like.
He's a magnificent kick - has one of the purest actions you can have. He needs to learn how to better defend one-on-one but I would say he is well worth persisting for another couple of years at least.

[Maddog37]

I don't see Darley as a backman. I would like to see him play on a wing.

[Ozza]

Darley is still a baby really. Plenty of time to work out if he will be a long term AFL player, and where on the ground.

Not everyone on an AFL list is a best 22 player. It always looks really hard to 'get into the 22' when the team has had a win, but some losses and injuries change things very quickly.

Darley was reasonable in his first few games for us last season.

On Biggs....as 'stache said, if he wasn't injured, he'd have been best 22. In the meantime, Spider Webb got an opportunity and has taken it. Biggs has played finals footy already in his 6 matches - so there are some runs on the board in his short career. He'll get his chance within the next few weeks you'd imagine.

I share BAD's thoughts on Fuller though. I have never seen anything in him that makes me understand why we picked him up. Having said that, hopefully he has a good VFL season, and makes the decision tough for us at the end of the year.

It is certainly good to be appear to be building some depth.

[Eastdog]

How will we hold up down back tomorrow against GWS forwards. Great Challenge for Biggs and Hamling.

[westdog54]

How will we hold up down back tomorrow against GWS forwards. Great Challenge for Biggs and Hamling.

I think we'll go okay...

Seriously, that was extraordinary yesterday.

[Eastdog]

I think we'll go okay...

Seriously, that was extraordinary yesterday.

Nah they were great. We were strong in all areas of the ground yesterday. To kick 16 goals yesterday with both Stringer and Craneri out was a great effort.

[ratsmac]

It makes a huge difference and a lot easier when the whole team is defending better too. The fast break goals are getting less and less.

[bulldogtragic]

Just for you eastie, between rounds 12 and 20 we are the number one defensive team in the AFL.

The. Best. Defence.

[bornadog]

Just for you eastie, between rounds 12 and 20 we are the number one defensive team in the AFL.

The. Best. Defence.

So does that mean thread closed.

[bulldogtragic]

So does that mean thread closed.

I don't get the massive money to be a moderator to make those calls. :D

[Mantis]

Just for you eastie, between rounds 12 and 20 we are the number one defensive team in the AFL.

The. Best. Defence.

The quality of our opposition has had a bit to do with that.. But our defensive structures have held up remarkably well considering thE amount of different players we have had through the back 6 through this period.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Our defensive structure is brilliant. Our team defense is just superb.

However i'm still unsure of our abilities to go 1 on 1. I'm not sure we have many decent 1 on 1 defenders. I can only think of Morris.

On the occasions where a defender has been isolated 1 on 1 we have been beaten a lot of the time

[Bulldog Joe]

Our defensive structure is brilliant. Our team defense is just superb.

However i'm still unsure of our abilities to go 1 on 1. I'm not sure we have many decent 1 on 1 defenders. I can only think of Morris.

On the occasions where a defender has been isolated 1 on 1 we have been beaten a lot of the time

This is true of most teams even Hawthorn. Any forward 1 on 1 is just about unbeatable with the right delivery.

Good defence requires the team principle and the Hawthorn method has stood up well.

Interesting that the Clarkson proteges in Beveridge and Simpson have both instituted excellent defense structure while being very attacking teams and getting away from the Roos/Lyon strangulation game.

[stefoid]

This is true of most teams even Hawthorn. Any forward 1 on 1 is just about unbeatable with the right delivery.

Good defence requires the team principle and the Hawthorn method has stood up well.

Interesting that the Clarkson proteges in Beveridge and Simpson have both instituted excellent defense structure while being very attacking teams and getting away from the Roos/Lyon strangulation game.

Yep - the area defence is more effective, but it needs time to get in place so if you move the ball really quickly, you can beat it before it forms properly. Perhaps the league is moving into an era of fast ball movement.

Which if it is, is going to place a premium on players who can cover a lot of ground quickly, rather than trotting form stoppage to stoppage.

Which may prolong Grants career (at the dogs) and see Minson moved on to a stoppage team like the Swans?

[bornadog]

Backline in action

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2015-08-18/dogs-savage-defence

[westdog54]

So does that mean thread closed.

I'd happily do a title change to "our outstanding defence".

[bornadog]

I'd happily do a title change to "our outstanding defence".

It really is outstanding, one of the many surprises for the year.

[LostDoggy]

I read a little gem of a stat today that gives an indication of how our defence has gone this year.

Since 1970, we have only ever once conceded less than 250 goals in a home and away season (241 in 1974).

This year we have conceded 214 with 3 games to go.

So our defence this year is conceding less goals whilst playing home at Etihad than we did most years playing home at Western Oval, that is a fair achievement.

[Twodogs]

I read a little gem of a stat today that gives an indication of how our defence has gone this year.

Since 1970, we have only ever once conceded less than 250 goals in a home and away season (241 in 1974).

This year we have conceded 214 with 3 games to go.

So our defence this year is conceding less goals whilst playing home at Etihad than we did most years playing home at Western Oval, that is a fair achievement.

12 goals a game with an average a tick over 10. One more thing to worry about,

[Eastdog]

It struggled today but yes our defence has surprised me this year and has held up very well. Joel Hamling has impressed me, Biggs has been good, Morris, Murphy, M Boyd have all been huge down there and E Wood has been great. Will be good to get Roughy and Roberts back in down there. Talia I'm willing to give more time and not yet to give up on him just yet.

[Eastdog]

Seems after this draft we make not have too many more worries in this area in the future.

[Twodogs]

Is that Dry Rot I saw running down the street yelling Yippee and Hurrah? "Two!" He was yelling "Two key defenders!"

[Dry Rot]

Is that Dry Rot I saw running down the street yelling Yippee and Hurrah? "Two!" He was yelling "Two key defenders!"

I was until those Brisbane bastards took Skinner.

[Twodogs]

I was until those Brisbane bastards took Skinner.

I think your head would have exploded if we had snared 3 key defenders.;)

Anyway Brisbane can warm him up for us. A couple of years and he'll come back. They nearly always do.

[comrade]

Skinner's ACL is a worry, and after getting 2 big guys, I was happy to get a Dalrymple special.

[Mofra]

I was until those Brisbane bastards took Skinner.
A few question marks on where Skinner actually plays.

I like that Adams can play small too - handcuff him to Morris all pre-season

[Twodogs]

How are Adams and Collins in closing space? Are they quick over the first 20 metres? Do they cover the angles well? I see they are both noted intercept marks so I assume so.

[Mantis]

How are Adams and Collins in closing space? Are they quick over the first 20 metres? Do they cover the angles well? I see they are both noted intercept marks so I assume so.

Adams is quick, 2.88sec for 20m is in the elite category, especially for KPP.

I think Collins is just average in this regard, but is a good reader of the play, bit like our friend Brian.

[Twodogs]

Adams is quick, 2.88sec for 20m is in the elite category, especially for KPP.

I think Collins is just average in this regard, but is a good reader of the play, bit like our friend Brian.


Great stuff, I was hoping for an answer like that. It's good to hear we have tried to get some flexibility down back. We now have the defenders to go with opposition monster forwards or lick down on mid size or smaller forwards

[always right]

Interesting to hear the Stingrays manager mention that he thought Collins was the steal of the draft. Reckons he could even move nto the midfield as a big bodied midfielder in a few years. Personally I'd be content for him to develop into a dependable KPD.

Adams is an intersting one when you look at his highlights reel. Very versatile player who looks to be just shy of a genuine KPP height. I'm thinking we might have him pegged for a forward role with the potential to move back as required. Looks to have size, agression, pace and marking ability. Could prove to be a very dangerous mobile CHF working amongst Crameri and Stringer. He's an exciting looking prospect.

[Mofra]

Adams is an intersting one when you look at his highlights reel. Very versatile player who looks to be just shy of a genuine KPP height.
He's got Morris covered by a cm or so - if he can play lockdown with the ability to swing forward occasionally we're onto a winner

[bornadog]

Interesting to hear the Stingrays manager mention that he thought Collins was the steal of the draft. Reckons he could even move nto the midfield as a big bodied midfielder in a few years. Personally I'd be content for him to develop into a dependable KPD.

Adams is an intersting one when you look at his highlights reel. Very versatile player who looks to be just shy of a genuine KPP height. I'm thinking we might have him pegged for a forward role with the potential to move back as required. Looks to have size, agression, pace and marking ability. Could prove to be a very dangerous mobile CHF working amongst Crameri and Stringer. He's an exciting looking prospect.

Played CHF prior to this year, but moved back when coach needed him.

[LostDoggy]

Adams is 193 which is a fraction shy of conventional KPD height these days (although AA full back Alex Rance is 194), but he is built like a tank and at the combine, his vertical jump was elite at 76 cm. He'll be competitive with the gorillas.

[azabob]

Adams is 193 which is a fraction shy of conventional KPD height these days (although AA full back Alex Rance is 194), but he is built like a tank and at the combine, his vertical jump was elite at 76 cm. He'll be competitive with the gorillas.

I'm pretty sure with our current set up and what we are working towards we don't necessarily need players who are "X" height in he back half or forward half. The only area we probably rate height is in the midfield.

Beveridge is turning the modern day game on its head.

[comrade]

He's closer to 194cm and at 17 years old, may have another couple in him. But he's more than big enough to take the Kennedy and Hawkins types that have given us trouble recently.

[LostDoggy]

Adams is 193 which is a fraction shy of conventional KPD height these days (although AA full back Alex Rance is 194), but he is built like a tank and at the combine, his vertical jump was elite at 76 cm. He'll be competitive with the gorillas.

Unleash The Beast.

[Testekill]

How are Adams and Collins in closing space? Are they quick over the first 20 metres? Do they cover the angles well? I see they are both noted intercept marks so I assume so.

To quote a Fremantle fan that wanted him


"Should definitely have delisted Vandeleur at the end of last year though, and swapped him over for a similar type of player with a higher ceiling in Adams. Vandeleur was just never going to cut it and it was clearly a case of flogging a dead horse. If Adams had have attended the draft combine this year he would have finished 1st in the standing vertical jump, 4th in the running vertical jump and 5th in the 20 metre sprint. It is hard to fathom how last year the recruiters could neglect to draft a bloke of his Herculean size, who moves like that and who was right under their noses. On top of that, last year was his first season of footy in 3 seasons after missing 2012 and 2013 due to a severe case of osteitis pubis, so the potential for considerable growth was clearly there."

Pretty crazy numbers athleticism wise.

[Dry Rot]

Interesting to hear the Stingrays manager mention that he thought Collins was the steal of the draft. Reckons he could even move nto the midfield as a big bodied midfielder in a few years.

Excellent.

Dogs midfield in 2020:

Macrae, Bont, Collins, Stringer and Daniel. ;)

[Dry Rot]

Very interesting back line options now:

FB: Roberts, Roughead, Collins

CHF: Hamling, Adams

3rd tall: Morris, Cordy, Hamling

Superstar interceptor: Wood

Mid sized: Boyd, Murphy, Webb, Biggs, Suckling, Adcock, in time Williams

Mad running small guy: JJ

And Adams and Hamling can swing forward.

[LostDoggy]

Unleash The Beast.

Unleash the specimen.

[Happy Days]

I'm pretty sure with our current set up and what we are working towards we don't necessarily need players who are "X" height in he back half or forward half. The only area we probably rate height is in the midfield.

Beveridge is turning the modern day game on its head.

To be fair there are two guys in WA doing this, one of whom has been doing it for years.

Neither of them are willing to do it as fast/cool-looking as Bevo is though.

[bulldogtragic]

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but deserves a specific mention. Our defence was our big area to work on last year. We kept last year's minor premiers to the lowest team score ever against us. Pavlich, Walters, Ballytyne, Mundy & Fyffe and rucks rotating through their forward line and 6 months to prepare for us. The lowest score Freo have ever kicked against us, ever, ever, ever.

That's a fair step in the right direction!

[soupman]

The mens department were outstanding today. Freo's forwardline never looked dangerous, and our half back flankers were dominant.

I'm so glad we have our attacking backline with skills instead of Collingwoods with their plethora of plodders with average footskills.

[bornadog]

A lot of people didn't rate Biggs in our best 22, but he showed today he has taken another big step forward.

[bulldogtragic]

Jefe, what is a plethora?

[comrade]

The mens department were outstanding today. Freo's forwardline never looked dangerous, and our half back flankers were dominant.

I'm so glad we have our attacking backline with skills instead of Collingwoods with their plethora of plodders with average footskills.

It's quickly becoming our key differentiator. Don't want to take too much out of 1 game, but I struggle to see how Collingwood can be a genuine threat with their backline mix.

[dog town]

If we are talking the actual back 6 they were all very good yesterday. They are very reliant on our team defence and press though which is the way we have set it up. We are very mobile down back and stand 5-10 metres attacking side of our opponents. It relies on the pressure of our press to force bad kicks or bad options to out numbered situations. We will always be vulnerable to getting beaten over the back or even 1 on 1 if the ball moves easily through the middle.

Even if a team gets some good clearances from the middle it can expose us a bit. Pretty much the first inside 50 Freo had Pavlich took an easy mark. Team defence is the key for us as we just don't play many genuine stoppers. Be interesting to see if we change the mix with Reiwoldt this week.

[whythelongface]

If we are talking the actual back 6 they were all very good yesterday. They are very reliant on our team defence and press though which is the way we have set it up. We are very mobile down back and stand 5-10 metres attacking side of our opponents. It relies on the pressure of our press to force bad kicks or bad options to out numbered situations. We will always be vulnerable to getting beaten over the back or even 1 on 1 if the ball moves easily through the middle.

Even if a team gets some good clearances from the middle it can expose us a bit. Pretty much the first inside 50 Freo had Pavlich took an easy mark. Team defence is the key for us as we just don't play many genuine stoppers. Be interesting to see if we change the mix with Reiwoldt this week.

That is the key in regards to our defensive set up. They work together as a back six rather than simply relying on one on one match ups. We are lucky to have players that can read the play very well. The majority of games we will go in to games with this set up and continue to press higher up the ground.

A huge advantage of our set up is the run we generate off our HBF which creates so many options and provides us with huge numerical advantages up the ground. Murphy, Boyd, Wood, Biggs, and JJ are given a free reign to take the game on and use their run and create these opportunities further up the ground. It is a joy to watch.

[always right]

We all made the same mistake pre game.....trying to work out who would pick up who on the Freo forwardline. It doesn't matter.

At various times Pavlich was manned up by Either Morris, Adams or Wood. We just rotate guys around to manufacture the match ups that suit us best at the time, the main imperative being attack, attack, attack.

We made the opposition reactive yesterday, illustrated by the withdrawal of Silvagni. Instead of looking to exploit our short defence by going tall, Lyon chose to try and limit our run. We are going to cause opposition coaches massive headaches. Do they back their strengths or try and limit ours?

It's why Biggs is so important to our side and was always a lock for round one. Who do opposition coaches lock down on? Murph? JJ? Boyd? Biggs becomes our way out when the others are not getting any room.

The only caveat to all of this is that we will come seriously undone if we are slaughtered out of the middle or our team defence further afield falls down. The saints will be a challenge next week as they have a quick side and an inform ruckman. If Roughy can break even and we can square the centre clearances I can't see how they will hold our forwards.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I liken our defence to a swarm of bees.
A 'swarm' defence might be Bevo's signature move.

Instead of matching gorillas with gorillas, just have a relentless swarm of irritating buzzing bees that just keep getting in your way, putting you off your game and always zipping away just out of reach before you can catch them.
Then they go and make honey up the other end.

I notice another great tactic he has trained defenders (well, the whole team really) in. Is the full body spoil.
A technique which allows a player to spoil against much taller opposition.

If you time your run at the opponent, and jump in to him side to side with your fist raised in the air, just at the precise moment the ball hits his fingers, you can spoil the mark, even if your fist gets nowhere near the ball. Not even within two FEET of the ball.
You just knock his whole body off line and he spills the mark..

I've seen Dalhaus use this technique perfectly to spoil ruck men marking. It's one of the reasons we're getting away with our small defence.

And if a gorilla DOES go rampant on us, we can now chuck the specimen on him or 'dad' in the future.

[GVGjr]

If Adams can maintain that type of form he displayed yesterday then there will be no need to rush Collins in before he is ready and I guess that also applies to Cordy. Webb will also be allowed to learn his craft at Footscray and also how to rotate through the midfield.

It's early days but we have a great balance of defenders at the moment.

[bulldogtragic]

If Adams can maintain that type of form he displayed yesterday then there will be no need to rush Collins in before he is ready and I guess that also applies to Cordy. Webb will also be allowed to learn his craft at Footscray and also how to rotate through the midfield.

It's early days but we have a great balance of defenders at the moment.

It's a fair change in 6 months! Roughy out of defence, two new young KPPs and time for others to develop as you point out. Amazing how Bevo and JMac & Dal have done it.

[1eyedog]

If Adams can maintain that type of form he displayed yesterday then there will be no need to rush Collins in before he is ready and I guess that also applies to Cordy. Webb will also be allowed to learn his craft at Footscray and also how to rotate through the midfield.

It's early days but we have a great balance of defenders at the moment.

When Dicko comes in we have a great balance of forwards too in Stringer, Dicko, Boyd and our smalls. We have a great balance of mids that run deep as well, we out-boxed Freo in the middle which is no mean feat considering their big-bodied mids who are all touted to be the ones to drive the Premiership tilt this season. We are capable of generating run with explosive types across the length of the ground as well. Dare I say we have a pretty balanced list that runs deep and we are well coached, organised and highly-skilled. I've got my social club membership ;)

[ledge]

Not sure Adams would keep up with Reiwoldt he is a running machine.
We will get more of a gauge on him after the saints game.

[bornadog]

Bevo teaches the players to defend space, so he isnot too worried about man on man.

[1eyedog]

Not sure Adams would keep up with Reiwoldt he is a running machine.
We will get more of a gauge on him after the saints game.

I'd bring in Hamling for Riewoldt. You've got to have someone run with Riewoldt and get him up the ground where his marking doesn't hurt you as much. Our mids are our best defenders in reality, our backs are small and act like mids starting in the back half. Our back line is pretty much set up like a midfield all supported by a now super defensive core group of mids led by Wallis and Stevens. Stevens was super yesterday, so much defensive work. It's the kind of stuff that relieves huge pressure off our back six and lets them get on to do what they do best.

[Go_Dogs]

Should we rename this thread "Our Awesome Defence"?

[azabob]

Should we rename this thread "Our Awesome Defence"?

Or just close it down.

[Bulldog4life]

When Dicko comes in we have a great balance of forwards too in Stringer, Dicko, Boyd and our smalls. We have a great balance of mids that run deep as well, we out-boxed Freo in the middle which is no mean feat considering their big-bodied mids who are all touted to be the ones to drive the Premiership tilt this season. We are capable of generating run with explosive types across the length of the ground as well. Dare I say we have a pretty balanced list that runs deep and we are well coached, organised and highly-skilled. I've got my social club membership ;)

Yes we upgraded this year too. Just got that feeling plus I didn't want to miss out on Grand Final tickets after the years I have spent in following the doggies.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes we upgraded this year too. Just got that feeling plus I didn't want to miss out on Grand Final tickets after the years I have spent in following the doggies.

Everything has a price. For about $600 a ticket you can go an afl endorsed GF breakfast and get a free ticket.

[Bulldog4life]

Everything has a price. For about $600 a ticket you can go an afl endorsed GF breakfast and get a free ticket.

Yes I am sure there are other avenues BT to get a ticket. I didn't want to be running around looking if we did make it. Social Club is the go.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes I am sure there are other avenues BT to get a ticket. I didn't want to be running around looking if we did make it. Social Club is the go.

Don't want to look like a beggar around the ground on the morning with a home made sign and a small child looking sad? :)

[stefoid]

If Adams can maintain that type of form he displayed yesterday then there will be no need to rush Collins in before he is ready and I guess that also applies to Cordy. Webb will also be allowed to learn his craft at Footscray and also how to rotate through the midfield.

It's early days but we have a great balance of defenders at the moment.

holy shit, I forgot about Colins, Cordy and Webb. I only remembered Hamling, Fletcher and Prudden.

what a list we are building.

[stefoid]

Whoops, forgot Williams too

[Mofra]

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but deserves a specific mention. Our defence was our big area to work on last year. We kept last year's minor premiers to the lowest team score ever against us. Pavlich, Walters, Ballytyne, Mundy & Fyffe and rucks rotating through their forward line and 6 months to prepare for us. The lowest score Freo have ever kicked against us, ever, ever, ever.

That's a fair step in the right direction!
We had one debutant as our main KPD and the two biggest possession winners played out of the backline - one was our former rookie, another as a former rookie traded to us for nothing.
Add a third former rookie / inside-mid into the mix and we've cobbled together a watertight defence from nothing.

The guys we've got developing make it a fairly solid area of development for us.

[1eyedog]

Everything has a price. For about $600 a ticket you can go an afl endorsed GF breakfast and get a free ticket.

Worst tickets ever! They are up at the back of the 3rd level its like looking at Melbourne from the Dandenongs up there.

[Rocco Jones]

Beveridge is all about team defence, the game against Freo it looked like such an organised unit.

I think we have already changed from last season where we will play a maximum of one limited tall defender. By limited I mean can only really see them being able to play on talls. Zaine Cordy, Marcus Adams and Easton Wood really seem to be cut in Beveridge defender prototype.

[Ghost Dog]

Thread closed? :)

[Rocco Jones]

Thread closed? :)

Worrying is a relative title. I would say our defence worried Freo on Sunday. We can't be so self-centered.

[Ghost Dog]

Worrying is a relative title. I would say our defence worried Freo on Sunday. We can't be so self-centered.

Haha Well worked Rocco. When we 'worry' Geelong at the Cattery, will be the day we know our rebuild is complete.

[bulldogtragic]

An alleged top 4 team, and alleged up and coming side. 8 quarters of footy, 10 goals conceded.

Brilliant! On top of Dale and Adams, we still have Collins (Gorilla FB) & Cordy (3rd tall, rebounding tall defender) as long term tall defenders. Great long term defence. With Hamling & Roberts to fight to get back in.

[whythelongface]

An alleged top 4 team, and alleged up and coming side. 8 quarters of footy, 10 goals conceded.

Brilliant! On top of Dale and Adams, we still have Collins (Gorilla FB) & Cordy (3rd tall, rebounding tall defender) as long term tall defenders. Great long term defence. With Hamling & Roberts to fight to get back in.

We have conceded 50 points less than the 2nd best defensive team, Sydney.

Both teams that we have played have scored 100 points in their other game.

It would be interesting to see how this stacks up historically in terms of points conceded after 2 games. Doubt there would be much better defensive starts to a season.

[boydogs]

It would be interesting to see how this stacks up historically in terms of points conceded after 2 games. Doubt there would be much better defensive starts to a season.

http://puu.sh/o5Bw9/f631b7256c.png

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I can't wait to see how we hold up against Hawthorn.

It's been two magnificent performances thus far, but it's a fair step up this week.

[bulldogtragic]

Best defence after round 2 in 60 years. Hamling & Cordy in the cupboard, Collins not out of the wrapper yet. Not a bad start.

[1eyedog]

Best defence after round 2 in 60 years. Hamling & Cordy in the cupboard, Collins not out of the wrapper yet. Not a bad start.

Not bad at all. Also, two players who play down there Boyd and Suckling talked about as the only two questionable players in the team. Happy times.

[Sedat]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/04/05/understanding-western-bulldogs-defensive-smallball-system/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theroar+%28The+Roar%29

Terrific article analysing our defensive structures in depth, with particular emphasis on player identification who are flexible enough to go tall and small. Inference is that we have been very strategic with our smaller defensive collective unit.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for this. So maybe Daniel Cross could have survived another year or so. Pity. He might have done alright with this set up.

[bornadog]

Thanks for this. So maybe Daniel Cross could have survived another year or so. Pity. He might have done alright with this set up.

Too slow for the modern game.

[bornadog]

Even though Adams took 15 marks in the backline, we were out pointed with McEvoy and Seglar, Rioli, Gunston and Sicily, taking contested marks in their forward line.

Our defence was beaten in the air.

[Ozza]

Even though Adams took 15 marks in the backline, we were out pointed with McEvoy and Seglar, Rioli, Gunston and Sicily, taking contested marks in their forward line.

Our defence was beaten in the air.

Both teams took 10 marks inside 50. And I'd say both teams had a hell of a lot more defensive 50 marks. Its just the nature of a high pressure game.

Last week Hawthorn took 16 marks inside 50, against West Coast (who are loaded with Tall forward options) who took 7.
Last week St.Kilda had 13 marks inside 50, we had 12.

[always right]

Both teams took 10 marks inside 50. And I'd say both teams had a hell of a lot more defensive 50 marks. Its just the nature of a high pressure game.

Last week Hawthorn took 16 marks inside 50, against West Coast (who are loaded with Tall forward options) who took 7.
Last week St.Kilda had 13 marks inside 50, we had 12.

Hawthorn's were contested marks though. We really missed Easton Wood in this respect.

We played a very small forward line and I don't recall a single contested mark.

[Ozza]

Hawthorn's were contested marks though. We really missed Easton Wood in this respect.

We played a very small forward line and I don't recall a single contested mark.

Is the point about our forward line or our back line?

Bornadog is saying 'well Adams took 15 marks, but we were out-pointed by x, y & z', but that we need to pick more tall forwards.

A mark inside 50 is a mark inside 50 - they all end in a chance to shoot at goal whether they are contested or not.

If we took 10 Uncontested marks inside 50, you could say it is linked to our players moving better and be able to get free to take these marks. Whereas Hamling, Morris and Adams were able to force contests by defending well.

The two teams took 14 contested marks each for the match.

'Out-pointed' as they were - Morris, Adams and Roughead took the same amount of contested marks (9) as Sicily, Ceglar and McEvoy.

We lost the game because we bungled opportunities and were far less efficient than Hawthorn. From my recollection, only 1 of McEvoy's goals and 1 of Sicily's were from contested marks. I'm not counting Ceglar's - because I would out-mark Caleb Daniel - and Ceglar is literally a foot taller than him!

[bornadog]

Hawthorn's were contested marks though. We really missed Easton Wood in this respect.

We played a very small forward line and I don't recall a single contested mark.

Yes, I was talking contested marks. McEvoy 200cm, Ceglar, 204.

[bornadog]

Is the point about our forward line or our back line?

Backline


Bornadog is saying 'well Adams took 15 marks, but we were out-pointed by x, y & z', but that we need to pick more tall forwards.

No, I didn't say that in this thread, I was talking about the contested marks the Hawks took and our defence was beaten in the air.

They had three goals from McEvoy and Ceglar, both took pack marks and our blokes couldn't match them.

[Ozza]

Backline



No, I didn't say that in this thread, I was talking about the contested marks the Hawks took and our defence was beaten in the air.

They had three goals from McEvoy and Ceglar, both took pack marks and our blokes couldn't match them.

I understand that its frustrating when the opposition take a big mark, and goal. But Adams took 4 contested marks himself and was outstanding. Ceglar did not take a pack mark for a goal. His only goal was when he marked/got a free kick when Caleb Daniel tried to rock climb him.

Sicily did take a contested mark and goal. He's 186cms....it was just a good mark. There are weeks when Stringer holds onto the 3 or 4 that he didn't take yesterday. If he doesn't have such a poor game yesterday - everyone's singing a different tune.

[F'scary]

Most of those good Haw marks deep in the forward line were not exactly pack busters (I think there was only one - McEvoy). They were more a result of better positioning on long kicks to position. Our guys were zoning in front of them, got caught by the sudden change (turnover, clear takeaway from a loose ball situation) and were scrambling to get back to try to make a contest. Haw was the first time in 3 games so far this year that our opposition was able to rock us with fast precision movement.

[Ghost Dog]

Is the point about our forward line or our back line?

Bornadog is saying 'well Adams took 15 marks, but we were out-pointed by x, y & z', but that we need to pick more tall forwards.

A mark inside 50 is a mark inside 50 - they all end in a chance to shoot at goal whether they are contested or not.

If we took 10 Uncontested marks inside 50, you could say it is linked to our players moving better and be able to get free to take these marks. Whereas Hamling, Morris and Adams were able to force contests by defending well.

The two teams took 14 contested marks each for the match.

'Out-pointed' as they were - Morris, Adams and Roughead took the same amount of contested marks (9) as Sicily, Ceglar and McEvoy.

We lost the game because we bungled opportunities and were far less efficient than Hawthorn. From my recollection, only 1 of McEvoy's goals and 1 of Sicily's were from contested marks. I'm not counting Ceglar's - because I would out-mark Caleb Daniel - and Ceglar is literally a foot taller than him!

If only Stringer would have kicked that first goal ( or Picken). I think that would have put blood in the water. Scoreboard pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

36 points
38 points
93 points (Hawthorn to under 100)
49 points tonight

That's one hell of a defensive effort to start the year.

[Eastdog]

We did well defensively again on Saturday night. Will be tested in the next few weeks. Morris so important for the young guys to look up to down there. Loved how Adams and Biggs have gone this year. Hopefully we get some of our defensive players back soon from injury.

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder what the odds would've been on losing Murphy & Prudden, plus lost games to Wood, JJ, Suckling & M. Boyd and that we would debut 3 draftees Adams, Collins, Williams all in the back six all by round 9.... And that we would have the lowest points against in the competition after round 9.

1,000,000-1?

[bulldogtragic]

Still the Number One Team for points against. Comfortably.

[Eastdog]

What do you reckon? Our forward line looks like its getting better especially with the great get in Tom Boyd, our midfield is decent and our defence well for me that's the concern. Our rucks are decent. This is the next thing will have to focus on now.

We have come a long way since then. Really been strong in this area. Our mids are fine and now its back to our forward line structure which is more of the concern.

[Bulldog4life]

We have come a long way since then. Really been strong in this area. Our mids are fine and now its back to our forward line structure which is more of the concern.

I heard Bevo say it is the last piece of the puzzle.

[Mantis]

I heard Bevo say it is the last piece of the puzzle.

Do you believe this?

[Eastdog]

I heard Bevo say it is the last piece of the puzzle.

If we can get it right will be very dangerous. Hopefully T Boyd will be back soon. Stringer is a very good player but when others aren't contributing he struggles. Redpath is providing a nice target up there.

[Bulldog4life]

Do you believe this?

I am sure that we can improve in all aspects of our game but the forward line needs the most work.

[bulldogtragic]

Still number one in the comp for points against!

[merantau]

Our defence has become a big headache for our opponents. This week's game against Port will be interesring. Apparently they score more from the goalsquare than any other team. How to combat that? Well getting our hands on the ball at stoppages and not turning it over between the arcs would help. Plus team defence. Our gut runners better rest up during the week. You may be called on to do a lot of work.

[Ghost Dog]

Is it time to change the title of this thread? 16-17 entries in that second quarter for two goals, missing 2 vital players in Bob and Marcus, great work boys.

[F'scary]

It is vital that Boyd and Morris play on next year. I don't think there is any chance now that either would be asked to retire.

We are gradually building up some depth in the KPB positions. I have no problem retaining blokes like Roberts and Hamling even if they are passed by as number one choices because we need a couple of players who accept playing a fair bit in the VFL, are not on the radar for a contract with another club but who can be brought in from the VFL as required to do a reasonable patch job.

[bornadog]

Is it time to change the title of this thread? 16-17 entries in that second quarter for two goals, missing 2 vital players in Bob and Marcus, great work boys.

Wood, JJ?

[bornadog]

I thought Hamling got better as the game went on and Roberts was steady again and starting to get some confidence.

We need these big blokes to keep improving and both are still 23 years old and have improvement left in them.

[hujsh]

If Roberts could just hold his marks he'd be looking pretty good right now

[bulldogtragic]

Still ranked #1 for points against after 12 rounds. Great effort by the coaches and players.

[bornadog]

If Roberts could just hold his marks he'd be looking pretty good right now
Needs to go the punch instead of trying to outmark everyone and get beaten every time.

[Ghost Dog]

Roberts punched quite a few. Watch the replay. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccTySwayFYg)
Had Dixon's measure a few times.

[bulldogtragic]

Roberts punched quite a few. Watch the replay. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccTySwayFYg)
Had Dixon's measure a few times.

But when Dixon marks them he's going to be crazy good.

[hujsh]

Needs to go the punch instead of trying to outmark everyone and get beaten every time.

I'm thinking more of the ones that bounce off his hands

[EasternWest]

But when Dixon marks them he's going to be crazy good.

He was always a threat. At least, that's what we were being told.

[bornadog]

He was always a threat. At least, that's what we were being told.

and told over and over.

[comrade]

Dixon dropping every mark was actually good because it was 'predictable' for their small forwards according to the broadcast.

[Go_Dogs]

Dixon dropping every mark was actually good because it was 'predictable' for their small forwards according to the broadcast.

They've been working on it all summer, and it's just started to click.



If you'd have told me we'd have the tightest defence at the half way mark, I'd have laughed at you. If you'd said we'd do it with players such as Murphy, JJ, Wood and the revelation Adams missing multiple games, and our up and comer Hamling not getting many games, I don't know how I would've reacted.

[LostDoggy]

Just looked at some stats. Our best ever h&a defensive effort (since the 22 round season was introduced in 1970) has been 241 goals conceded in 1974 (10.95 per game), this year we are at 172 goals conceded in 16 games (10.75 per game).

When you think back to some of the dour teams we had playing their home games at Whitten Oval, it is remarkable that this current crop is on track to concede less playing mostly at Etihad.

Given the defensive mess Bevo inherited, our lack of a fully developed quality KPD and the raft of injuries our defenders have experienced this year, it really has been an astonishing performance from our coaching team; Bevo and Rohan Smith in particular.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Just looked at some stats. Our best ever h&a defensive effort (since the 22 round season was introduced in 1970) has been 241 goals conceded in 1974 (10.95 per game), this year we are at 172 goals conceded in 16 games (10.75 per game).

When you think back to some of the dour teams we had playing their home games at Whitten Oval, it is remarkable that this current crop is on track to concede less playing mostly at Etihad.

Given the defensive mess Bevo inherited, our lack of a fully developed quality KPD and the raft of injuries our defenders have experienced this year, it really has been an astonishing performance from our coaching team; Bevo and Rohan Smith in particular.

Very much so.

Will be interesting to see how the dynamic changes next year with Crameri back, Boyd/Stringer more influential etc. We should be a much better attacking side next season, so I'll watch with interest how that will impact our defense first mantra.

[Greystache]

We're 16th in the AFL for scores conceded per inside 50m. I thought we'd struggle this year but nowhere near this badly. Our game plan is built around limiting inside 50s, but once we do we may as well jog back to the centre because a goal is a given.

Massive amounts of work ahead for next year, even with injuries reduced.

[Mantis]

We're 16th in the AFL for scores conceded per inside 50m. I thought we'd struggle this year but nowhere near this badly. Our game plan is built around limiting inside 50s, but once we do we may as well jog back to the centre because a goal is a given.

Massive amounts of work ahead for next year, even with injuries reduced.

Yeah, it's a real work in progress, especially with the talls, but the number of different players we have had to throw through the area means that it's been so hard to get any cohesion or continuity with the defensive group.

Having some tall defenders who can consistently beat their opponent is a must - the development of Collins, Adams, Cordy and Roberts is super important.. The addition of Hurley would be a god send.

[azabob]

We're 16th in the AFL for scores conceded per inside 50m. I thought we'd struggle this year but nowhere near this badly. Our game plan is built around limiting inside 50s, but once we do we may as well jog back to the centre because a goal is a given.

Massive amounts of work ahead for next year, even with injuries reduced.

Why do we struggle in this area? Is it the way we set up the ground, our defenders, our midfielders, our game plan?

What needs to change?

[Ghost Dog]

Why do we struggle in this area? Is it the way we set up the ground, our defenders, our midfielders, our game plan?

What needs to change?

While Hamling didn't work, I am glad Bevo tried something at least. Three options at the moment. Try to break the lines a bit more ( high risk ) or attempt to kick over their defence ( Suckling, JJ, Easton etc ) or keep trying out those who can clunk marks ( Campbell, Boyd, even Bont ). Minno can't take a grab but he is not easily moved, maybe can bring it to ground in a better way. Grasping at straws?

[LostDoggy]

We're 16th in the AFL for scores conceded per inside 50m. I thought we'd struggle this year but nowhere near this badly. Our game plan is built around limiting inside 50s, but once we do we may as well jog back to the centre because a goal is a given.

Massive amounts of work ahead for next year, even with injuries reduced.

That is a very interesting stat. I find it hard to see our defensive structures or performance as failed or deficient, though, whilst we concede an average of 11 goals per game (our lowest average against in decades) despite regular injuries.

A reliable key defender or 2 would be great of course but to me the scoreboard clearly shows that the defensive side of our game is on the right track, our real issue is scoring more.

[Eastdog]

It struggled a bit last night but overall it's been quite a good area for us this year. Morris and M Boyd have offered the experience down there for our younger kids. Adams when he was playing has done very well in there and Roberts and Hamling are improving a bit as well.

Was thinking would it be better for Roughy to play a more defensive role don't put him up forward or in the ruck when Campbell returns and that would allow T Boyd to focus on playing mainly forward.

[S Coast Simon]

Third lowest scores against in the league. With up to thirty players running through the the backline. What more do you want.