Bulldogs reflective - The Trade Period

[GVGjr]

Now that the season is over our focus is now on three vital list management periods to improve our playing list. This includes Trade Period, National Combine and the National Draft.

I'm going to break up this analysis into 3 threads so that we can hopefully keep the threads focused on the topic.

The Trade Period

Key dates:

Friday October 9 - NAB AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period begins
Monday October 12, 10am - NAB AFL Trade Period begins
Sunday October 18, 5pm - Close of NAB AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period
Wednesday October 21 - NAB AFL restricted free agency matching offer three-day period ends
Thursday October 22, 2pm – NAB AFL Trade Period closes

The Trade Period includes settling the order for the draft picks before the National Draft, clubs bidding on father/son candidates and academy players and of course trading players and draft picks between clubs.

Interesting to me, it's regarded as a hectic and stressful time for clubs and players and yet essentially it also tends to meander along after frustrated teams, player managers and of course the players themselves all posture, threaten and, like the participants of the World Series of Poker, bluff and bluff again in an effort to pull off a recruiting coup and get their own way.
The deals tend to get settled thick and fast on the last day when everyone eventually comes to their senses. There are of course perceived winners and losers and certain clubs reputations as being difficult to deal with and this will be discussed often until our attention turns to the National Draft.

It's unlikely our beloved Bulldogs will be big players this year and it's doubtful there will be another Tom Boyd type deal conjured up let alone completed which of course shocked the AFL footy community last year as the upstart Dogs dared to become so creative and pinch a prized scalp from one of those manufactured and heartless teams from the northern states. Unfortunately I can't see us returning to those heady days this year but wouldn't it give those lazy arse journos something to focus on again if we were to make another big move?

I suspect we will make some minor adjustments to the list with just a tweak or two here or there as we put the onus on the assistant and development coaches to keep improving the young and talented players we already have.

We've said goodbye to Matthew Fuller, Sam Darley and former father son selection in Ayce Cordy and it's very likely that we will be saying goodbye to 'loose lips sink ships' Michael Talia and we might also be waving goodbye to the likes of Jarrad Grant and maybe even Will Minson. I suspect that Minson will see out his final year though. Like most of his career, Grant's immediate future will be a bit of a mystery to us for a little longer.

So what do we need from the trade period?

- We've had a crack at getting a quality ruckman like Stefan Martin from Brisbane but that seems unlikely. We haven't made a lot of noise about Matthew Leuenberger or Zac Smith and then Zac Clarke's name appeared for a brief moment before he quickly decided to sign another deal with Fremantle.

- A key defender would be great but it appears Jake Carlisle is determined to help fast track Carlton on their road to mediocrity rather than making a common sense pitch for a spot with us. Did I read somewhere that the general consensus is that he might not be the sharpest tool in the shed? I digress.

- A strong bodied and skilled midfielder would also be helpful although with the return of the injured Thomas Liberatore and Koby Stevens imminent and potentially (lets keep our fingers and toes crossed) a return of Clay Smith sometime during the season might diminish that need.

Based on all that I'm of the belief that we could potentially trade for a player starved for opportunities at another club much like Shane Biggs last year. Actually we might secure a more known player but I think you get the picture that it won't be a big name player. (I mean reputation wise not a player with more initials in his name than Bontempelli or Giansiracusa)

We have some currency to offer if needed, a first and second round pick (11 and 30) could be valuable this year especially for clubs needing points to cover father son or academy players plus we might even try to find a home for old Loose Lips Talia. Does the club consider offers for the out of favour Hrovat if opposition clubs ask the question?
We would also trade future draft picks from next year but I hope we don't.

So I'd be interesting in hearing from a few of you on the following questions:

- Will we pull off a big recruiting coup this year or even trade for another player?
Please put a bit of an effort in with your responses if you could

- Will we find a ruckman or a key defender or both during the trade period?

- Realistically what sort of player or which particular player do you think we might acquire?
Be creative if you must but try and make it realistic

Hope to hear from you.

[bornadog]

The whole year I have heard we are after a ruckman and a CHB/Key defender, even before the Talia incident.

The ruck is our biggest concern, especially since we delisted Ayce. Beveridge has tried a number of different players throughout the year and hasn't been impressed with Will, although in the end we had no choice but to play him in the finals. But what about next year. Will Campbell finally take over as number one ruck, that is a big ask and risk. Roughie seems to not have the body to play the first ruck role and Minson is not the right man for the role in the eyes of Bevo.

This means we have to shore up our rucks. Gorringe is one we have thought about, but he hasn't kicked on and maybe won't pass the no dickheads policy.

I think we will make a big play for a ruckman, but I am not sure who.

In regards to the other big play, well we know Carlisle has been spoken about, but what about Henderson, surely Geelong won't be able to fit him in and he would be ideal for us.

In conclusion, I think we will be active in trading for two key roles that need plugging.

[boydogs]

I didn't think we were necessarily short a KPD or ruckman, maybe developing ones on the rookie list, but Talia & Ayce Cordy going means we could well be looking at mature targets. An 18 year old is not going to help in the short term, and being 7 points away from the 2nd week of finals we should look to fill the gaps with 21yo+ players ala Hamling last year

Beveridge clearly values different traits in talls (athleticism, flexibility) to other clubs so there may be a moneyball aspect to what we do rather than going for the biggest names

[Remi Moses]

Henderson's a decent get imho, and certainly no worse than Carlisle .
I wouldn't discount Martin, and particularly if Bris Vegas are targeting Lycett or Sinclair .

[bulldogtragic]

Great thread GVGjr, especially to focus.

Our Percentage this year tells the tale of a high scoring team, but also giving up a lot of points. So it goes that this is one of the big areas to look at. With Bob, Boyd, Wood, JJ, Biggs, Prudden, Webb and Cordy I'm happy about our run and mid sized defenders. Morris can hold the third tall spot for a year, but then there's big shoes to fill that spot. We've got Roberts & Hamling who have shown a bit but not enough to over rely on. There's Roughy, but this year he was played everywhere so who knows if he's a defender next year??

So, a mature backman is equal top of the list. I like Henderson, but the Geelong trade noises seem like a done deal. Carlisle not coming either. Most KPDs contracted and nothing really high quality seemingly gettable. I joked earlier this year about getting Lake back for a year as long as it was a free trade. It's very unlikely, but not as crazy now. Talia doing what he did is hurting on another level. Perhaps we look to a state league KPD??

The other glaring weakness is the ruck. Anyone linked to us dried up with Kruezer passed, Luey not linked anymore, Clarke signing and Martin said to have worked out the home sickness like thingy. Lycett or Sinclair might be interesting. I guess if nothing pans out Minson must stay, Roughy possible ruckman with Campbell and drafting or rookieing coverage like Fitzpatrick.

Then there's still a need for some class mids, I'm happy with outside run as Libba, Stevens and Smith give us that edge back if fit. Treloar, Bennell and Danger all picked other clubs if they can do it. Could we chip a player 25-30 on a Hawthorn type list - Jed Anderson?

I'd like at least draft picks, plus Darcy Mac if we want him. Another first round gun would be very handy, so unless it's a great trade then go to the draft. Boyd was worth it, but we lost pick 6 last year. Talia nets a good trade or he goes to the draft. We need to add two rucks on the list, coverage like a Fitzpatrick and then a kid to develop. As for outs, Talia is gone and Minson and Grant seem close. Again the incoming pick/player needs to justify the outgoing.

[F'scary]

- Will we pull off a big recruiting coup this year or even trade for another player?

I don't feel confident about a big recruiting coup based on what has happened so far with the prominent players who are known to be on the move.

I think we could well opt to trade for players rather than draft picks due to the already pronounced youth of our list and the potential retirement of two (M. Boyd and Morris) of our best players at the conclusion of 2016. Our obvious trade cards are Hrovat and Talia. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Redpath was being shopped around.

If we choose not to match any offer Grant may receive, the compensation will not be that great and the pick will most likely be used to trade for a player who is "ready to go."

I would regard the recruitment of Henderson as a KPB as a coup. He is 26 next season. I would be interested to hear opinions on what we should give up to secure his services. I have the feeling that our second round pick plus Hrovat could go close but may be pipped by the offer of a late 1st round or very early second round pick by another club.


- Will we find a ruckman or a key defender or both during the trade period?

I genuinely don't believe that we are desperate for ready made ruckman for 2016 and that will curtail the Club's motivation to trade one in. A decent KPD on offer, though, could well lead us to offer overs (e.g., our first round pick plus Hrovat).

- Realistically what sort of player or which particular player do you think we might acquire?

We have delisted 2 half back flanker types, I could see us acquiring one or two bigger bodied half backs to give the match committee more selection options next season.

[LostDoggy]

As a side note, its interesting to reflect that Hawthorn's premiership team (4 GFs in a row) included 7 traded in players acquired over several years. They were 3 tall defenders (Lake, Gibson, Frawley), 2 rucks (Hale, McEvoy), 1 utility (tallish, highly skilled, hard runner who can play inside/outside mid, forward or back - perfect team strengthener in Burgoyne) and 1 mobile tall forward (Gunston).

What is interesting is that this list pretty much mirrors our current requirements.

Of course, Hawthorn acquired these guys over several years as we will need to. If we can surgically find either a quality KPD or Ruck this trade period, we will have done well. Both will be magic.

[LostDoggy]

Will we pull off a big recruiting coup this year or even trade for another player?

I think we'll be a player in trade week. We may not figure at the front-page-of-the-newspaper level that we did in October 2015, but I feel we have a fair bit actually working for us:


We aren't quite Hawthorn, but we are an attractive proposition to a player who feels he's not getting the opportunities/money elsewhere. We have a fair bit of cap space still, we are playing a good style of football that has media talking, and for a player who wants to "re-invent" themselves and re-launch their career, a club like the Dogs is a perfect place to do that. "Get a good wage, become an important cog and watch the journos write about how much the team has improved with your presence" is a line that a smart manager will be feeding to a fair few players that might fit the bill.
I don't see the Loose Lips Shemozzle being that big a turn-off for other clubs, to be honest. OK, so the Swans aren't going for it, but there are plenty of clubs who'll back their culture to make a player out of a guy who is probably seen as simply disgruntled where he is, but he has shown some potential. They may even be discussing how the whole situation was caused by our treatment of the guy in the first place (I don't agree, don't flame me!) and how at a "better" club he can be turned around. If Carlisle came to us, I'd be surprised if Carlton didn't knock on our door for Talia.
Money and trade options aside, there have been many column inches written about how close our playing group are. I just recently moved from Seddon/Yarraville and I can tell you, I've seen the guys out and about and they are tight. Adds to point 1.
We have two high quality personnel in Dalrymple and JMac who I trust 100% to do the right deal at the right price, even if it is considered overs at first, to improve our list. These aren't the guys who are going to trade away this year's first pick and next year's first pick to get a Peter Street. Those days are behind us.
With the Crameri trade, the Lake trade, Josh Hill, etc. we have built a reputation as being a good club to trade with. Opposition clubs (Essendon aside) will be sitting down at our table with good will and expectations of a fair trade.


Will we find a ruckman or a key defender or both during the trade period?
One this year, one the next, is my expectation. I'm hoping we get a defender first as we've shown we can counter the ruck situation somewhat. I see a KPD as our biggest hole. Funny isn't it? Get one end sorted, finally, and the other opens up.

Realistically what sort of player or which particular player do you think we might acquire?

This is where I fall short. Not nearly enough knowledge of what's around the AFL or state leagues to have any sort of educated opinion.

[Jeanette54]

According to trade radio Hawthorn have not offered Brian Lake a new contract, yet. If that doesn't happen is there a chance that Brian might come back to us?

[LostDoggy]

Here is my list of 8 players who would feasibly be tadeable to us at the right price who could add significantly to our list.

I am bearing in mind Dalrymple's motto; draft for quality, trade for specific needs. IMO our areas of specific need are Ruck and KPD. I think if we could jag 1 Ruck and/or 1 KPD who can vie for best 22 selection this trade season we'll have done well. One of each would be ideal.

I reckon the following have some potential for us:

- Michael Apeness (Freo), 200 cm/101 kg, 19 YO. Selected at pick 17 in 2013 draft but only managed 2 games in 2 years. Vic Metro/Eastern Ranges junior reputedly good friends with Tom Boyd and homesick. Missed a big chunk of this year with a PCL. Ruckman who can go forward. Not much opportunity at Freo behind Sandilands, Clarke, Griffin and Hannath. Has good hands, mobility and aggression and a Rugby Union background being in junior development programmes with Melbourne Rebels. Uncontracted.

- David Astbury (Rich), 195/95, 24YO. 41 games in 5 years at Tiges, but has been cruelled by weird injuries. Like our own Jarrad Grant missed games after stepping on a sting ray barb (!). At times has looked highly competent as a key defender. Strong overhead, mobile enough and good organiser. Was personally selected by Matthew Richrdson to wear the No.12. Has a year left on contract but apparently wants a change. Brisbane keen, Leppa knows him well.

- Lachie Henderson (Carl), 196/95, 25YO, expected to go to Geelong, but Dangerfield deal a decent chance to scupper that. No world beater but can hold down a KPD. Has athletic ability and has been mucked around in crap teams all his career. Could trade him for our 2nd and steak knives, Carlton love our steak knives. May end up a bargain.

- Tom Hickey (StK), 201/94, 24YO, Athletic ruckman who can go forward. 41 games/17 goals since debuting in 2011 (first 2 yrs at GCS). Has struggled for sufficient game time vs similar type in Billy Longer. Is rumoured to be gettable with Essendon interested. Is a Bevo type with elite aerobic capacity.

- Matthew Lobbe (Port), 200 cm, 98 kg, 26 YO. First Ruck for Port for several years. Strengths are good tap ruckman, goes all day and outstanding competitor (averages over 6 tackles per game in recent years and can lay 10+ in a match, rare for a ruckman). Ordinary mobility though and marking and disposal winning abilities are limited. Signed a 5 year deal at Port at end of 2014 when looked a #1 Ruck lock but Ryder and C.Dixon signings have changed things and he is now potentially overpaid within their structure. Has seen the writing on the wall and club has given manager permission to test the market. Port are said to be very tight capwise. Circumstances could result in a favourable deal here.

- Luke Lowden (Crows), 204/102, 24 YO. Real speculative here maybe as a trade for Talia or a low round pick. Has had 5 years on AFL lists, 4 at Hawthorn, 1 at Crows. Project development player at Hawks - only got 1 game but did well, Rucking and kicking 3 goals. Dogged by Achilles. Missed early last year, but finished strongly in SANFL. Has done development work with Podsiadly who really rates him.

- Scott Lycett (WCE) 203/103 22YO, first Ruck who can't get a run ahead of NicNat or Sinclair, who fits in as forward/ruck but is not the natural Ruck Lycett is. Has 3 years left on a contract but is reportedly frustrated by lack of opportunity. Has managed 28 games and 21 goals in 4 seasons.

-Peter Wright (GCS), 203 cm, 100 kg, 19 YO. Selected at pick 8 2014 draft. 1 year in system, 3 games. Calder Cannons junior with outstanding hands, athleticism, a great kick, good goalkicker at junior level. Moonee Ponds boy. 1 year left on contract. Have heard talk we have been particularly active with GCS list managers, hoping he is a topic of conversation.

[G-Mo77]

Peter Wright (GCS), 203 cm, 100 kg, 19 YO. Selected at pick 8 2014 draft. 1 year in system, 3 games. Calder Cannons junior with outstanding hands, athleticism, a great kick, good goalkicker at junior level. Moonee Ponds boy. 1 year left on contract. Have heard talk we have been particularly active with GCS list managers, hoping he is a topic of conversation.

I remember he was on our radar in that draft? Right? I'm pretty sure he pulled out of the U18 GF and didn't get to see him last year. I was looking forward to see our next first round pick playing but instead we got Tom Boyd with that pick. :rolleyes:



sarcasm before anyone jumps on me.

[azabob]

Nice summary PP. I'd imagine Wright, Hickey, lobbe and lycett would take our first round pick or a top 20 pick for Lycett.

Out of the ruckmen you put up who is your preferred one? And what would it take to get him?

[Bulldog4life]

Nice summary PP. I'd imagine Wright, Hickey, lobbe and lycett would take our first round pick or a top 20 pick for Lycett.

Out of the ruckmen you put up who is your preferred one? And what would it take to get him?

Read a quote today from Lobbe's manager that Lobbe doesn't want to leave Port

[F'scary]

According to trade radio Hawthorn have not offered Brian Lake a new contract, yet. If that doesn't happen is there a chance that Brian might come back to us?

You would have to be interested.

[LostDoggy]

Read a quote today from Lobbe's manager that Lobbe doesn't want to leave Port

It's hard to know what to believe this time of year. Craig Hutchison on radio today said Lobbe told Port at his exit interview that he was open to a trade and that Port had given their blessing to test the market.

[chef]

Stevo was saying on the news that the Saints are into Hrovat.

[LostDoggy]

Nice summary PP. I'd imagine Wright, Hickey, lobbe and lycett would take our first round pick or a top 20 pick for Lycett.

Out of the ruckmen you put up who is your preferred one? And what would it take to get him?

Thanks Azabob. Given our primary need is a first Ruck to go straight away, the safest bet would have to be Lobbe. I think Port would be very up for trade as they will have used up their 2 best picks on Charlie Dixon and Toumpas. Will probably take 1st round, although Dalrymple is apparently very keen to keep it. Maybe 2nd and Talia?

Long term, I'd really love Apeness or Wright.

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say I'm not massive on Lobbe
Just not mobile enough

[azabob]

Stevo was saying on the news that the Saints are into Hrovat.

So both Melbourne and St.Kilda are interested. I wonder if he will stay or go?

[bulldogtragic]

Wright could be anything. If Shocktober didn't happen, I have it on absolute authority from a reliable source that we were picking him with our first rounder. So he must be highly rated internally. One TAC game I heard some recruiters from another club really talking him up between themselves. I can't see GCS letting him go though. A pick 11 isn't really needed unless they need it to trade with. Hrovat is surplus to a fit squad they have, as much as I love Granty I can't see him impacting the trade although his previous best footy was under Eade. Whether we could put both and the pick 11 up in a multi club trade would be interesting.

So Apeness might be more gettable? Who knows, but I think a younger and a mature ruck are needed, and a depth ruckman if Minson is to leave.

The key defender is where the most pressing need is I think. If we can't get Hendo and most remain contracted it's going to be tough. If St Kilda want Hrovat, then one of their young talls should be our asking price. I'm still a believer in Nathan so I would want fair compo.

So far Grant, Talia, Hrovat & Minson linked to trades/movement this year. My guess is we might be very, very busy.

[bulldogtragic]

So both Melbourne and St.Kilda are interested. I wonder if he will stay or go?

For conversation... Hrovat for Watts?

[azabob]

For conversation... Hrovat for Watts?

Not sure on that one. Does Watts attack the contest hard enough?

If the club does trade for Watts, my question is what does offer that is different or better than Grant?

[1eyedog]

Gotta say I'm not massive on Lobbe
Just not mobile enough

He's not unlike Will also in that he does not take a lot of marks around the ground. There's a reason Port went after Ryder. They think he'll be their premiership ruckman, not Lobbe.

[LostDoggy]

A pick 11 isn't really needed unless they need it to trade with.

Don't forget trade picks are extra valuable to Qld/NSW teams because it gives them greater pull in bidding for the gun academy players.

Here's a wild hypothetical. Given the crazy money StKilda are throwing at Carlisle, they are desperate for a KPD (of which there are very few available). If they miss him, could we package Talia and Hrovat (who they are also apparently keen on) for Hickey?

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure on that one. Does Watts attack the contest hard enough?

If the club does trade for Watts, my question is what does offer that is different or better than Grant?

If Grant leaves, say to Melbourne, would that change it? Could we use Watts as KPD coverage if we can't get a bonafide KPD. He said he prefers a teaching coach like Bailey and not pricks like Neeld. He might be flexible for Bevo? I'm not sure, but the two players might have a similar market value.

[LostDoggy]

He's not unlike Will also in that he does not take a lot of marks around the ground. There's a reason Port went after Ryder. They think he'll be their premiership ruckman, not Lobbe.

I don't agree with that. Port recruited Ryder in October 2014 and then gave Lobbe a rich 4 year contract in December 2014.

Their plan was Lobbe 1st Ruck, Ryder forward/Ruck. Unfortunately for them, Ryder hasn't worked.

[1eyedog]

Not sure on that one. Does Watts attack the contest hard enough?

If the club does trade for Watts, my question is what does offer that is different or better than Grant?

The ability to play third tall at either end of the ground. I personally think Grant offers more, but Watts might be selected for structural reasons, especially if trade time is light on for talls, Talia goes and Hamling has to move up a notch (third to second tall for instance). Just speculating,

[bulldogtragic]

Don't forget trade picks are extra valuable to Qld/NSW teams because it gives them greater pull in bidding for the gun academy players.

Here's a wild hypothetical. Given the crazy money StKilda are throwing at Carlisle, they are desperate for a KPD (of which there are very few available). If they miss him, could we package Talia and Hrovat (who they are also apparently keen on) for Hickey?


I'm sure we could, but should we? I don't watch them to be fair. What ever happened to Tom Lee? I'd like Goddard but that's unrealistic even for Talia & Hrovat.

[SlimPickens]

I'm sure we could, but should we? I don't watch them to be fair. What ever happened to Tom Lee? I'd like Goddard but that's unrealistic even for Talia & Hrovat.

No to Tom Lee...he ain't any good.

[1eyedog]

I don't agree with that. Port recruited Ryder in October 2014 and then gave Lobbe a rich 4 year contract in December 2014.

Their plan was Lobbe 1st Ruck, Ryder forward/Ruck. Unfortunately for them, Ryder hasn't worked.

Ryder was certainly more than a risk minimisation strategy for Port. Port know he plays his best football as number 1 ruck. Port didn't need Ryder as 2nd ruck, the Lobbe / Westoff combination was working fine, it nearly got them to a Grand Final.

Ryder played his best football at Essendon as number 1 ruck and after Lobbe was dropped in Round 17 Ryder excelled dominating in the position. There are certainly issues with Port offering a large contract but from what I hear off the Port board it is heavily back-loaded which will give them a relatively easy out when it's time to go hard at Dixon. Ryder and Dixon / Westoff are the future there. The bigger issue for Port re. Lobbe is cultural. Trading out VC one year into a contract is dodgy business.

[LostDoggy]

I'm sure we could, but should we? I don't watch them to be fair. What ever happened to Tom Lee? I'd like Goddard but that's unrealistic even for Talia & Hrovat.

I'm sure we could find a spot for a 24 year old athletic ruckman with elite endurance and an ability to go forward. Would take him ahead of Goddard or Lee.

[F'scary]

For conversation... Hrovat for Watts?

If I could be sure that Watts would become just that bit more desperate for the ball in our guernsey, I would do the swap.

Hrovat is a good developing player who had a bad season. Every time I saw him play in 2015, even in the VFL, he was trying to do too much. It suggested to me that he had had a shock with a quick succession of events that undermined his status in the pecking order for a position in the first 22: the progress of Honeychurch, the recruitment of Daniel and McLean and the tremendous rise of Dalhaus as a lock for a starting smaller mid position. I have the feeling that he will recover from this shock and if he got an opportunity to move to a team that really needed a smaller mid (or rover in the old parlance) he could blossom in 2016. Therefore, in my opinion, Hrovat would be a sacrifice and a loss to our list, so I would like to get plenty of assurance that Watts was going to do the 1%ers and the like. But that just can't happen (proof of the pudding is in the eating). Given this, I would take the punt because we have a number of players like Hrovat on our list but we don't have a mobile, marking, skillful CHF - which would be the spot Watts would be recruited to fill. That is unless we want to spend Stringer in that position, a position that often has its back to the goals and is 75 to 100m from them.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Great thread GVGjr

I suspect we've got quite a few things we are working on behind the scenes in attempting to improve our list, and may surprise - I just have this feeling we might land someone that we havent been considered by the media as a likely destination

Whether we acquire another ruckman, and or key defensive option in this trade period will be of great interest.

Minson to GWS may be on the cards. I'd like to see us look at Tomlinson as part of that - could he be a CHB in our system.

Im not convinced we would look to trade Hrovat but that might depend on the player we are attempting to attract.

[bulldogtragic]

Minson gone? Ayce gone. Roughy plays best where? Campbell stagnated.

We need rucks big time.

[northernsoul74]

Lake has confirmed he is retiring along with Hale.
You would have to be interested.

[LostDoggy]

Minson gone? Ayce gone. Roughy plays best where? Campbell stagnated.

We need rucks big time.

Listening to JMac earlier today he made reference to Roughy training all pre season as a key defender. Seems to indicate he thinks a pre season working on his ruck craft will benefit.

Also again stated Minson in contracted and Campbell was coming along nicely before gettig inured.

When asked about a few names that have been thrown up this trade period (Luey, Z Smith, Hickey, Lobbe, Martin) I loved his response - With all due respect to those names mentioned, we need to make sure we bring in the right player for us.

Which says to me we aren't going to waste our time bringing in someone who isn't good enough.

[bulldogtragic]

I know JMac has said Hrovat is contracted and not expecting to see him traded, although keeping an open mind... I'm wondering if this has anything to do with Darcy Macpherson? If we taking another small and slender mid/forward in Darcy, then I can see us being too heavy in this area (even more so). If Darcy cost a third or fourth rounder, and Hrovat got a good player/pick, and we thought the net difference was up then perhaps allowing this chatter is a signal Darcy could get a FS nomination from us?

[azabob]

I'd be very surprised if McPHerson wasn't on our list next year. Which again we have to ask the question is there room for, Daniel, Honeychurch, Dahl, Daniel, Hrovat & McPHerson on our list? So BT we may be open to trading Hrovat.

Longer term who has the brighter future - Hrovat or Honeychurch?

Who is more valuable to our finals chances in the coming five years - Grant or Hrovat?

[bulldogtragic]

I'd be very surprised if McPHerson wasn't on our list next year. Which again we have to ask the question is there room for, Daniel, Honeychurch, Dahl, Daniel, Hrovat & McPHerson on our list? So BT we may be open to trading Hrovat.

Longer term who has the brighter future - Hrovat or Honeychurch?

Who is more valuable to our finals chances in the coming five years - Grant or Hrovat?

I'd be keeping Grant. I think Hrovat is more flexible than Honey, and if it's a straight decision of course Hrovt. But if Honey is not attracting by interest, then I guess we see where it goes. If three clubs starting a bidding war on a contracted Hrovat and something happened like a young KPP ala Goddard, then brilliant. But I don't see a big need to trade him. But the list will lose potentially two rucks and a KPD whilst adding Darcy into the mix. Something has to happen about it I guess.

[Webby]

Just reading the tea leaves, here, i wouldn't be surprised to see us trading Hrovat plus pick 11 to the Aints for pick 5. The Aints will then trade pick 11 to the scum for Carlisle.

We'll then either go to the well or use pick 5 to on-trade. Bundle pick 5 and Talia and suddenly we're relevant to Adelaide - who will be needing something from Geelong... that may bring Geelong to our doorstep... Just cant thing of a Geelong player we'd target.. it'll be interesting to watch.

[Mofra]

Just reading the tea leaves, here, i wouldn't be surprised to see us trading Hrovat plus pick 11 to the Aints for pick 5. The Aints will then trade pick 11 to the scum for Carlisle.

We'll then either go to the well or use pick 5 to on-trade.
I'd love that scenario, not sure if the Saints would run with it - they'd probably want a sweetener.
It does have the added bonus of keeping one of Essendon's picks out of the top 10

[bulldogtragic]

Just reading the tea leaves, here, i wouldn't be surprised to see us trading Hrovat plus pick 11 to the Aints for pick 5. The Aints will then trade pick 11 to the scum for Carlisle.

We'll then either go to the well or use pick 5 to on-trade. Bundle pick 5 and Talia and suddenly we're relevant to Adelaide - who will be needing something from Geelong... that may bring Geelong to our doorstep... Just cant thing of a Geelong player we'd target.. it'll be interesting to watch.

Pick 5 is a massive chip on the trade table. I'd want two good younger players for it, could we get it? I.e.

GWS: Tomlinson & Treloar (Plus Minson? GWS are interested and his salary and Hrovats salary could go the way to covering Treloar)
GCS: Wright & Bennell/etc

Still have picks 30, 31 (Talia) and 48 (Darcy Mac?)

[jazzadogs]

I'd love that scenario, not sure if the Saints would run with it - they'd probably want a sweetener.
It does have the added bonus of keeping one of Essendon's picks out of the top 10

Saints are effectively getting Carlisle and Hrovat for pick 5 in that scenario. I'd be okay with that as a saints fan.

If that was to happen, I'd be happy to either bank the pick (assume there would still be plenty of talent available at pick 5?) or try to get an A-grader plus young potential A-grader. No idea who though.

[azabob]

For draft watchers, how is next years draftees looking? Should we explore trading for future picks?

[LostDoggy]

For draft watchers, how is next years draftees looking? Should we explore trading for future picks?

Next years draft is widely considered better than this one, especially regarding depth. I'd love to see us trade for a future pick or 2. Imagine trading with a Melbourne, Carlton or an Essendon for their next years first round pick, then all the fun of watching where they end up next year, if last we'd have next years pick No.1 on top of our normal picks. With a strong young list, we're better placed than most to take advantage of this new feature.

[Ozza]

Seems like every year the experts are saying its a 'weak draft' or a 'shallow draft'!

[Happy Days]

Pick 5 is a massive chip on the trade table. I'd want two good younger players for it, could we get it? I.e.

GWS: Tomlinson & Treloar (Plus Minson? GWS are interested and his salary and Hrovats salary could go the way to covering Treloar)
GCS: Wright & Bennell/etc

Still have picks 30, 31 (Talia) and 48 (Darcy Mac?)

If we get pick 5 I'd just use it in the draft.

[Greystache]

Seems like every year the experts are saying its a 'weak draft' or a 'shallow draft'!

And that next year's draft is going to be much stronger. The current draft has never been as strong as the next one, ever. I don't take much notice because hindsight hasn't proven the predictions right very often.

[LostDoggy]

And that next year's draft is going to be much stronger. The current draft has never been as strong as the next one, ever. I don't take much notice because hindsight hasn't proven the predictions right very often.

I don't agree with that. Often the current year's draft is reputed to be very strong and the following year's softer. The predictions are not always right, it's a speculative game after all, but the ones said to be hot usually hold up (the Ball/Judd/Hodge and the Deledio/Roughead/Griffen/Buddy editions come to mind).

[Greystache]

I don't agree with that. Often the current year's draft is reputed to be very strong and the following year's softer. The predictions are not always right, it's a speculative game after all, but the ones said to be hot usually hold up (the Ball/Judd/Hodge and the Deledio/Roughead/Griffen/Buddy editions come to mind).

They were 14 and 11 years ago respectively. Which of the last 5 drafts have been predicted to be strong? It's the new trend, talk down the current one and talk up the next one. It's either weak, shallow, or even with minimal elite talent, but next year's will be stronger. It never proves to be correct.

[Greystache]

I don't agree with that. Often the current year's draft is reputed to be very strong and the following year's softer. The predictions are not always right, it's a speculative game after all, but the ones said to be hot usually hold up (the Ball/Judd/Hodge and the Deledio/Roughead/Griffen/Buddy editions come to mind).

Which of the last 5 drafts have been predicted to be strong? It's the new trend, talk down the current one and talk up the next one. It's either weak, shallow, or even with minimal elite talent, but next year's will be stronger. It never proves to be correct.

[KT31]

Which of the last 5 drafts have been predicted to be strong? It's the new trend, talk down the current one and talk up the next one. It's either weak, shallow, or even with minimal elite talent, but next year's will be stronger. It never proves to be correct.

2012 was predicted to be a good pool of kids.

[Mofra]

2012 was predicted to be a good pool of kids.
I remember that too - talked up pre-draft.
Looking at the top 10 it seems to have lived up tot he hype, especially considering Toumpas has been held back by injury.

[LostDoggy]

Which of the last 5 drafts have been predicted to be strong? It's the new trend, talk down the current one and talk up the next one. It's either weak, shallow, or even with minimal elite talent, but next year's will be stronger. It never proves to be correct.

I don't think the talk is as simple as this year bad, next year good. Most of the experts rate this years top 30 or 40 as strong on talls, average on mids. The knock is that outside of the top 30, this year's talent pool is considered to drop away quicker than usual. Next year's crop is considered to be thinner for quality talls but the overall talent pool will be deeper.

I bought up the older drafts because you can only really assess a drafts quality after 5 years minmum.

Probably the most hyped draft of recent years was the GWS draft 3yrs ago. Hard to assess as so many top picks are at GWS and yet to hit potential. We got Stringer and Macrae early and Hunter f/s, whilst Wines, Vlastuin, Daniher, Viney have made promising starts to career.

It's never black and white but overall I'm pretty impressed with how accurate the talent spotters predictions tend to be.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Hrovat and 11 for pick 5. That's actually not a bad deal for all involved. Specially if we've got another Bontempelli lined up at that pick.

Hrovat I think will be a good AFL player and I'd be happy to keep him too, but if the offer is good........he may well be covered by other similar types on the list. Caleb Daniel for one.

[Remi Moses]

You could see Stkilda using that 11 for Carlisle, and we get 5.
Interesting that its perceived the top 2 are standouts and the rest are a bit of a lottery .

[Mofra]

You could see Stkilda using that 11 for Carlisle, and we get 5.
Interesting that its perceived the top 2 are standouts and the rest are a bit of a lottery .
Sounds like 2013 - Boyd a monty for pick 1, Kelly & Billings odds-on for picks 2 & 3, nobody knew what we'd do with pick 4.

I think we chose wisely :cool:

[Grantysghost]

Sucking being touted as a potential target. Obvious links to Beveridge I think at 27 he would be a great acquisition.

Link to article (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-trade-news-western-bulldogs-a-new-suitor-for-hawthorns-matt-suckling-20151008-gk46sy.html)

[Bulldog Joe]

Sucking being touted as a potential target. Obvious links to Beveridge I think at 27 he would be a great acquisition.

Link to article (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-trade-news-western-bulldogs-a-new-suitor-for-hawthorns-matt-suckling-20151008-gk46sy.html)

Not to keen on Suckling.
What does he really offer ?

Better to give opportunities to players like Lukas Webb.

[Axe Man]

Sucking being touted as a potential target. Obvious links to Beveridge I think at 27 he would be a great acquisition.

Link to article (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-trade-news-western-bulldogs-a-new-suitor-for-hawthorns-matt-suckling-20151008-gk46sy.html)

Interesting. For 2016 he seems surplus to requirements as a running backman, but from 2017 onwards as a Boyd and Murphy replacement he holds some appeal.

I wonder if we see him taking Grant's spot on the wing next year?

[bulldogtragic]

Loading up on another HBF... Good coverage for Matt Boyd in particular, although the pressure for spots on the HBF will be massive. If it's a lower-end deal I guess that's a win. Any free agent in means absolutely no compo for Grant in any way assuming he leaves.

[G-Mo77]

I think if this happens Grant is gone.

[bulldogtragic]

I think if this happens Grant is gone.

This is a bizarre comment I will make. Stick with it folks. I agree for next year maybe Gmo. But... what if Grant was retained as a rookie for next year (ala Schneider at Saints), but elevated for Clay Smith who will still be on the LTI list. He gets bumped up salary too as an elevated rookie. So he's not worse off from a playing position or salary (just full list). If he duds out, so be it. If he has another good year, he gets rookie elevated onto the primary list with a TWO year deal and small pay rise as some form of recognition. That costs us our last live pick next year, which if Morris, Boyd and Bob retire with delistings could be pick 100. Crazy I know.

[G-Mo77]

Happy to retain as a rookie, just can't see it happening. I think another club will bite and sign him. Seems his spot is the key here. Reading between the lines he'll stay if we can't get anyone else. Suckling comes in that's his spot gone.

[LostDoggy]

Not to keen on Suckling.
What does he really offer ?

Better to give opportunities to players like Lukas Webb.

If we can draft a kid named Udder to play off the other wing, we've got some great banner material right there.

[GVGjr]

Did we cut into the list deep enough to take advantage of the trade period? Given our inability to land a ruckman or key position defender and knowing that we had Talia departing should we have gone for a player like Jack Fitzpatrick that wouldn't have cost much at all but provided a bit of insurance?

[Bulldog Joe]

I think the issue was a lack of flexibility, but Bevo did state who was comfortable with the list.

Clearly Minson is the player he would have traded, but with another year on his contract and no apparent interest we had nowhere to there.

Of the players retained, I would think, only Prudden should consider himself fortunate.

Even Darley has shown enough to be at least worth a rookie spot and Grant is forced out because of the depth of the list.

Personally, I would not be surprised to see either Darley or Ayce Cordy picked up as rookies and Grant surely would have some interest across the competition as a delisted free agent.

While we have not done a lot, we are showing faith in our drafting and hopefully we will do well there again. We do need to add those ruck and key position options.

For 2016 there are a few players who need to prove their worth as we will again need to cut players.
Those under the spotlight I would expect to be Minson, Campbell, Redpath and Prudden.

[GVGjr]

I think the issue was a lack of flexibility, but Bevo did state who was comfortable with the list.

Clearly Minson is the player he would have traded, but with another year on his contract and no apparent interest we had nowhere to there.

Of the players retained, I would think, only Prudden should consider himself fortunate.

Even Darley has shown enough to be at least worth a rookie spot and Grant is forced out because of the depth of the list.

Personally, I would not be surprised to see either Darley or Ayce Cordy picked up as rookies and Grant surely would have some interest across the competition as a delisted free agent.

While we have not done a lot, we are showing faith in our drafting and hopefully we will do well there again. We do need to add those ruck and key position options.

For 2016 there are a few players who need to prove their worth as we will again need to cut players.
Those under the spotlight I would expect to be Minson, Campbell, Redpath and Prudden.

Thanks, I think you're right that the coach has a lot of confidence in the list but if we project out another 12 months and if the players you have mentioned are under the spotlight it highlights that our most vulnerable players are mainly on the tall side.

Add those names to Morris, M.Boyd and maybe Murphy it could create a sizeable gap in height and of course experience.

It just confirms my view that we have to be prepared to trade some midfield players to cover the gaps in our list. Just heading to the draft table each year won't cover these gaps.

[Bulldog Joe]

Thanks, I think you're right that the coach has a lot of confidence in the list but if we project out another 12 months and if the players you have mentioned are under the spotlight it highlights that our most vulnerable players are mainly on the tall side.

Add those names to Morris, M.Boyd and maybe Murphy it could create a sizeable gap in height and of course experience.

It just confirms my view that we have to be prepared to trade some midfield players to cover the gaps in our list. Just heading to the draft table each year won't cover these gaps.

We should at least be in touch with Stefan Martin. My understanding is that his contract expires next year and on exposed form he will be an upgrade on what we have.

[1eyedog]

Thanks, I think you're right that the coach has a lot of confidence in the list but if we project out another 12 months and if the players you have mentioned are under the spotlight it highlights that our most vulnerable players are mainly on the tall side.

Add those names to Morris, M.Boyd and maybe Murphy it could create a sizeable gap in height and of course experience.

It just confirms my view that we have to be prepared to trade some midfield players to cover the gaps in our list. Just heading to the draft table each year won't cover these gaps.

I agree and given our depth of midfield / small forwards we should have the opportunity to rotate them throughout next year so we can get a better idea of their worth both to us as well as their value as trade material. Rotating our mids / small forwards will also give potential suitors a good look and hopefully will raise their value to others.

[1eyedog]

We should at least be in touch with Stefan Martin. My understanding is that his contract expires next year and on exposed form he will be an upgrade on what we have.

Will be 30 by the end of next year.

[Bulldog Joe]

Will be 30 by the end of next year.

How old was Ben Hudson when he came to us?

Martin is just the type of player as a ruck/midfielder that could top up for a real dip at the flag.

[GVGjr]

How old was Ben Hudson when he came to us?

Martin is just the type of player as a ruck/midfielder that could top up for a real dip at the flag.

While Martin is a young 29 yo and is certainly durable and athletic waiting another 12 months for him limits the value we might have otherwise got. With Minson a likely exclusion at the end of next season I'd be keeping an eye on Martin but I'd continue to look at other players as well.

[bornadog]

While Martin is a young 29 yo and is certainly durable and athletic waiting another 12 months for him limits the value we might have otherwise got. With Minson a likely exclusion at the end of next season I'd be keeping an eye on Martin but I'd continue to look at other players as well.

We can also assess over the next year how the new rules involving the bench effect the game and see what sort of ruckman we wil require. The game will be different next year with these rule changes.

[F'scary]

As at this time we have 4 spots on the senior list to fill from the DFA trading period, ND and PSD.

Picks 20, 21 & 30 will be used, you would think. Pick 51 would be a choice between Darcy McPherson or a DFA, it would seem to me.

I would like to see us recruit one of those "mature" CHB's from the VFL but I'm not sure whether 30 or less is overs. There is also the rookie list perhaps to get one of these, especially (as BT alluded to recently) we are likely to have a LTI at the start of the season with Clay Smith.

[bornadog]

The Hun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-2015-retirements-and-delistings-who-has-left-your-club/story-fni5f3kt-1227498406719)

The Dogs have secured three top-30 selections and will add four senior players to their list at the draft – picks 20, 21, 30 and 51.


They traded No.11 to Carlton for 20 and 21 and will back gun recruiter Simon Dalrymple to deliver more draft gold.


McCartney revealed the Dogs began trade period trying to convert their first pick into a top-10 selection but when they couldn’t their draft analysis showed a pair of picks would hold more value.


“We looked at many options where we could move up the draft and once that strategy was exhausted it was then in-depth analysis of the pool,” he said.


“The last couple of years have been really fruitful and the rebuilding of our side has been around draft and development.”


McCartney confirmed the Dogs made a late play for Port Adelaide ruckman Matthew Lobbe but said they didn’t target Gold Coast full-back Steven May.


Lobbe, 26, is holidaying in Vietnam – making it harder to strike a trade quickly – while McCartney said with so much young quality the Dogs’ focus was on retention.


“To get the quality we’d like to come in you’ve generally got to give up something with it,” he said.


“We’re reluctant to give up the young talent we’ve nurtured over the last couple of years.”


In the last completed trade, the Bulldogs sent unwanted defender Michael Talia and pick 69 to Sydney for the Swans’ 2016 fourth-round pick.


The Dogs would have passed on pick 69 but will use the future pick. The Crows and Essendon were linked to Talia — the grandson of Bulldogs premiership player Harvey Stevens — but McCartney said only the Swans wanted him.


“In the end we were probably going to get nothing, so we got a future pick which we’ll use,” he said.


Talia, 22, agreed to a Swans contract on Wednesday after 30 games in four years at Whitten Oval.

[Remi Moses]

I agree in theory we made need to trade in key backs to fill needs, but if we fill needs let's bring in quality and not just fill it for the sake of it.
Hawthorn probably the best example of bringing in quality needs and sacrificing a few along the way .

[GVGjr]

I agree in theory we made need to trade in key backs to fill needs, but if we fill needs let's bring in quality and not just fill it for the sake of it.
Hawthorn probably the best example of bringing in quality needs and sacrificing a few along the way .

I don't believe that is correct. The Hawks do that via trades not just the draft but when you see them making a low end trade for someone like Jack Fitzpatrick to give them some coverage in the ruck and as a key defender because that is what their list needs it shows that they take a practical point of view when they see the need to balance the list.

The aim is not to necessarily have 42 players commanding a senior spot but to have a few players that can provide some coverage in spots they might be lacking some depth in. There is nothing wrong with having a couple of players like Fitzpatrick on the list who will never command a spot for 20 games in a season. Even if they only play 5 to 7 games they probably can come in and do a reasonable job and have earned their spots.

[Dry Rot]

I think we've been clever to save our powder for next year re delistings.

It's a better draft, and we'll need to fill 6 spots then (4 retirements: Morris, Minson, Smith and Boyd; and at least two departing: Prudden and probably Hrovat)