Players that need to lift

[LostDoggy]

Here's a list ive compiled of players who i belive need a big season or they might come under fire at seasons end:

(in no order)
Addison - Yes he may be tough as nails but needs to imporve in many of his grey areas. Its going to be hard to break into the backline now with Everitt cementing a spot. May need to look to the midfield and become a tagger/runwithplayer.

Eagleton - Not getting any younger and lacks a defensive side which has been well documented. For the good of the team i hope Ray successfully challenges for the wing position.

McDougall - Needs to cement a spot, either forward or back. Simple as that. I dont hold much hope.

Skipper - This latest injury i think will severely hamper his season. He will be going into 2008 with no pre season combined with the fact that he has to fight for his spot in the team. If Minson takes the no.2 ruck duties the only option is for Skip to become a forward. I wont hold my breath.

Street - One thing that will effect both Street and Skipper will be the arrivals of the new ruckman in the rookie draft this year and hopefully Cordy new year. I cant see Street getting a game unless one of Minson or Hudson go down.

Wight- Needs to find a position. I still have hope he can make it as a ruckman but still lacks the size (weight wise) to be anything more than a flanker.



All comments welcome.

[Mantis]

Agree with 4 out of the 6.

I think Addison and McDougall could be excluded from your list. Dylan has shown gradual improvement, but admit he needs to improve his ball use and decision making. His hardness alone makes him a player who will be very valuable over the journey and think if he plays 12+ games next year it would be a good result. I thought McDougall found his niche late in the season when played in defence and will be looking for him to improve on these efforts next year.

[hujsh]

Interesting that 4 of 6 are KPP. Hard for all to lift in the same side

[W W Biscuit]

I would put Minson into the 'need to lift' category. Perhaps a bit harsh, as he was injured for some of the year, and had good ressies form prior to that. What could a fit Minson do next year? I believe he has it in him to step up in the same way that Harris was able to this year. So far he has only teased.

[Rocket Science]

Depends how you define "lift", but gee, potentially long list, this one.

For varying reasons I'd add to the above in no particular order:

Giansiracusa
Went from being a determined prime mover in '06 to another non-commital passenger in '07...Capable of so much more in all areas and we're a far better team when he's firing. One suspects it's all upstairs with Gia.

Cooney
Time to swap the myriad of excuses for consistency...Entering a phase where he should be leading the club by example and impacting games more assertively.

Ray
Learning to get his hands on the footy and demonstrates surprising courage at times but more drive/application and less chook-without-a-head meanderings required. Needs to elevate himself from fringe player to walk up start.

Hargrave
Decision making still needs serious work. Also needs to cut down on frees against due to poor positioning, ill-discipline and laziness. The occasional goal sneaking forward doesn't nearly offset the defensive gaffes. Defend properly or ply your trade as a tall winger off the bench.

Skipper and Eagleton have gotta be the poster boys for this particular category though.

[LostDoggy]

Depends how you define "lift", but gee, potentially long list, this one.

For varying reasons I'd add to the above in no particular order:

Giansiracusa
Went from being a determined prime mover in '06 to another non-commital passenger in '07...Capable of so much more in all areas and we're a far better team when he's firing. One suspects it's all upstairs with Gia.

Cooney
Time to swap the myriad of excuses for consistency...Entering a phase where he should be leading the club by example and impacting games more assertively.

Ray
Learning to get his hands on the footy and demonstrates surprising courage at times but more drive/application and less chook-without-a-head meanderings required. Needs to elevate himself from fringe player to walk up start.

Hargrave
Decision making still needs serious work. Also needs to cut down on frees against due to poor positioning, ill-discipline and laziness. The occasional goal sneaking forward doesn't nearly offset the defensive gaffes. Defend properly or ply your trade as a tall winger off the bench.

Skipper and Eagleton have gotta be the poster boys for this particular category though.

Interesting choice of players but I think you have got this about right.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think it's easier to make a list of players that DON'T need to lift.
West, Johnson, Harris, Boyd.
I'd be hoping for better things next year from everyone else on the list.

[bulldogtragic]

Depends how you define "lift", but gee, potentially long list, this one.

For varying reasons I'd add to the above in no particular order:

Giansiracusa
Went from being a determined prime mover in '06 to another non-commital passenger in '07...Capable of so much more in all areas and we're a far better team when he's firing. One suspects it's all upstairs with Gia.

Cooney
Time to swap the myriad of excuses for consistency...Entering a phase where he should be leading the club by example and impacting games more assertively.

Ray
Learning to get his hands on the footy and demonstrates surprising courage at times but more drive/application and less chook-without-a-head meanderings required. Needs to elevate himself from fringe player to walk up start.

Hargrave
Decision making still needs serious work. Also needs to cut down on frees against due to poor positioning, ill-discipline and laziness. The occasional goal sneaking forward doesn't nearly offset the defensive gaffes. Defend properly or ply your trade as a tall winger off the bench.

Skipper and Eagleton have gotta be the poster boys for this particular category though.
Could not agree more.

The fringe players are obvious, this is where the list really needs to improve.

Great Call.

[LostDoggy]

West.

I'm not sure where he is at at the moment. Running around loose across the back / half back line is not the go. And I would prefer that others get their hands dirty and go and get the ball like he does. I am not saying anything about his application and ball getting ability, rather that if our other on-ballers were getting the pill and using it more effectively, so that they were better than he, then where would he play? Maybe off the bench in bursts? In and under while he is fresh?

His ageing body should not have to do it all, especially towards the end of a gruelling season.

[LostDoggy]

Cooney probably the only one on the list I agree with - and in his defence, he needs a full pre-season.

Was impressed with hargrave and doogs last year. I think they'll kick on.

[FrediKanoute]

When eade first arrived at the club he identified that the workload was being carreid by too few. West, Johnson, Smith, Grant and Darcy were doing the work of the other 22 with the occaisional cameo performance. 3 years later, only Johnson and West remain of our Fab 5, and both remain critical elements of the team. They have been supplemented by Murphy, Hahn, Cross, Morris, Harris and Boyd, but still fopr mine there is a need for the workload to be more evenly spread. Guys who need to step up this season include:

1. Gia - more consistency. He has the talent he just needs to not go missing and be prepared to haul the team over the line if needs be;

2. Cooney - an interupted preparation didn't help his cause last year, but his best and worst are miles apart. He needs to stand up this season and show us all why he was the #1 pick in 2003;

3. Ray - many would suggest that pick 4 flatters him, but he has all of the tools to be a very damagin player - was always going to be a slower developer, but this season needs to really step up and hurt teams;

4. Griffin - injury ruined his 2007. He had shown some good signs prior to that and I think that if he can step up and become a dominant player at HB, HF or in the middle it will go a long way to deterining how successful our season is.

5. Minson - another guy whose development has been cruelled by injuries, but again 2008 represents a watershed year for the big fella. Whether he becomes a forward or becomes a dominant ruckman, I have little doubt that a successful Will, will be a significant part of our success in 2008. Hopefully having Hudson will allow him to develop in 2008 as opposed to having to shoulder full responsibility on his own with little real support.

[Go_Dogs]

I'll throw up a few different names (not a hard task after last season really).

Higgins - Needs to get fitter, hungrier and work on his defensive game. At the moment, he plays the small forward role reasonably well, has great vision, hands, finishing, however doesn't get to enough contests, doesn't apply enough defensive pressure. If he wants to become a midfielder, those need to be his strong suits.

Harbrow - Whilst he was super impressive, for mine, to become a bigger danger he needs to get on the scoreboard with some frequency. His great agility, vision and disposal, with an apparent keen goal sense. Played a bit closer to goal he could become a very dangerous weapon. His work upfield was excellent for a first year player, just needs to add goal kicking to his repertoire.

[Palace03]

In terms of players being close to de-listing unless they have an improved season;

Street - With the arrival of Hudson, a rookie and potentially Cordy next year Streeta is in strife unless he can force Minson out of the side (or Hudson I suppose)

Skipper - Tredding water the last 3 years withour showing any real improvement, needs to lift and lock down CHF.

Wight - Doesn't have a position after Everitt took his spot, maybe turned into a tall wingman if skills can improve, because the bloke can run.

Doogs - May battle it out with Skipper for the CHF spot, don't know if either are up to it, but Willy will have a pretty tall forward line next year.

They are all KPP, but I think with the emerging KPP we have one of Street/Wight and one of Skipper/Doogs will be de-listed at the end of the year.

Of the boys who need to lift to cement a spot in the 22
Addison - Needs to improve disposal and decision making, at this stage probably back up to Hahn.

Higgins - Has shown he has all the tools, but needs to build that engine and show his class over 4 quaters in the midfield

Ray - Has shown bits and pieces, he may come across as soft but i think his tackling is quite good, just has to use the ball better when he gets it.

Harbrow - Was flashy, and quite impressive this year, needs to build his endurance and lock down a wing/HFF

Tiler - Forth year on the list in 08, and should some promising signs in the games he got last year, hopefully he can go forward next year with the better defenders playing on Johnno, Murphy and Welsh??

[Mantis]

I did the same thread on BF last year. I think from memory I highlighted Harris, Gia and Power as player's who need to step up. Harris had a much improved year, but the other 2 went backwards.

Rather than pick out a few players at present I think we can safely say that we need a massive lift across the board.

Our most senior players have to become more team orientated. We don't need them to kick 6 goals a game or pick up 40 possessions a game. We need them to contribute to the team, that's all.

Our mid range players (24-28 yo) have to become more consistent in there efforts. Not so much there output, but there input into making us a good team. They have to set the example on the field for the young guys, they have to become our on field leaders.

Our 3 and 4 year players especially our high draft picks have to produce good football on a week to week basis. Not match winning performances, just performances that help the team perform well.

Our young guys have to put there heads down and strive to be the best they can. They have to perform consistently on the track and at Willi and put pressure on the senior team for positions. When they get there opportunities they have to make each game count.

[hujsh]

Cooney probably the only one on the list I agree with - and in his defence, he needs a full pre-season.

Was impressed with hargrave and doogs last year. I think they'll kick on.

Sorry but 5 matches and 2 goals from someone with his talent in this team is disappointing. You might say he was good down back but that is not what we were looking for. At least we got him for nothing

[Dry Rot]

I wonder about the bald Eagle - does he need to lift or just change his playing style (don't know if he can).

[The Doctor]

I think the whole bloody squad needs to lift.

[LostDoggy]

I think the whole bloody squad needs to lift.

Too true. Won't the pressure be on if after 3 or 4 weeks we have been on the receiving end of a couple of hidings?
Hudson should make our midfield more competitive and Welsh should add another dimension to our forward line but that won't be anywhere near enough if nearly everyone else doesn't improve.

[dog town]

To be a top 4 side they just about all need to lift. You would probably say that Johnson, West and maybe Eagleton are not going to improve much but even they could refine the roles they play a little bit. Excluding players that have had injury problems and will hopefully lift on last year anyway I think we have a huge list of players that we could hope/expect to lift.

[hujsh]

To be a top 4 side they just about all need to lift. You would probably say that Johnson, West and maybe Eagleton are not going to improve much but even they could refine the roles they play a little bit. Excluding players that have had injury problems and will hopefully lift on last year anyway I think we have a huge list of players that we could hope/expect to lift.

Do you think that Johnson might need to change his role from KPP to flanker setting up the forwards like a Didak for the team to really be healthy.

[LostDoggy]

Do you think that Johnson might need to change his role from KPP to flanker setting up the forwards like a Didak for the team to really be healthy.

I dont think we could afford for him to play a role like that. But Aker, Higgins etc could probably play that role.

I think with the inclusion of Walsh will work wonders for Johnson. Relieve the pressure and who knows, we might even get a couple of extra years out of him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I wonder about the bald Eagle - does he need to lift or just change his playing style (don't know if he can).

This is only my take, but I think with a player like Eagle, who is still a good player, but probably not likely to improve greatly its better to focus on the positives of what he brings to the table.

Unless he loses speed, his hard running abilities, or the depth in his kicking he should still be a useful contributor, albeit in a smaller role if some of the younger players can step up. He may play a few more run with type roles, but I see many others capable of improving far more than Eagle on the list. And I see many others whose improvement would have more influence on the win/loss column.

[hujsh]

I dont think we could afford for him to play a role like that. But Aker, Higgins etc could probably play that role.

I think with the inclusion of Walsh will work wonders for Johnson. Relieve the pressure and who knows, we might even get a couple of extra years out of him.

My point was more along the lines of we should work on a tall forward for the long term and not use a band-aid type fix (he's probably the best band-aid fix ever but)

[soupman]

These are the players who I think could greatly improve our side if they improve themselves, and how:

Farren Ray: Could be one of the most damaging wingmen in the game. He needs to work on his footskills on the run, and has to really start influencing games. His final against Collingwood was exactly what he needs to do more consistently. I thought he was one of our better players towards the end of the season, and if he fires, we'll be much more dangerous.

Daniel Giansiracusa: I think he does more than he's given credit for, however, he is still frustrating. Still doesn't exert as much influence on games as we would have hoped 2-3 years ago. Bobs up to kick goals every now and then, but otherwise isn't particularly damaging.

Ryan Griffen: One of the quartet of high draft pick midfielders who could, and should develop into game breakers. Last year, prior to the injury was a dissapointment. He struggled to really impact games, and the only game where he really did dominate was against Brisbane, where he got injured.

Adam Cooney: Absolute freak. Could easily develop into one of the best match-winners in the comp. Kicks goals, uses ball well, gets clearances, quick, strong, can play forward, flashy, he should become a star. However, he is yet to break games open on a regular, or even irregular basis. He did it once from memory this year (vs Essendon), and needs to get himself mentally right (plus have a good pre-season). He too often accepts the tag. He is one player who could make a difference of 4-5 wins a year if he can lift, hijm and Griffen being two players on our list who I believe could develop into top 10 midfielders of the competition.

Shaun Higgins: Everybody has nothing but praise for this kid, has strength, goal sense, class, brilliant footskills, a nice burst of pace and according to my sisters and all other girls I know, is absolutely gorgeous. At the moment though he is a bit part player up forward. He needs to start working harder. His defensive pressure is weak, and he doesn't win much of the ball. Could become a very good player, but needs to work harder going both ways, he currently seems like a cherry picker.

Dylan Addisson: Possibly my favourite young player. Has size and a bit of roughness about him, and can play pretty much anywhere. His decision-making and footskills however need work, but he could be a good defensive midfielder next year for us. Also seems to be good in close.

Tim Callan: Really an unknown quantity. Noone is really aware of his situation. If he can step up and give us a lockdown midfielder option, we will be a much better side for us. Whether or not he is up to that or not, we'll have to wait and find out.

Will Minson: Everyone would be dissapointed with his 2007 season. Is a ruckman who could become one of our most important players. However, he is too physical, and doesn't do enough around the ground or up forward. I don't think he'll make it as a forward, not mobile enough to get to the fall of the ball, however, if he was on the lead you'd move out of his way.

Andrew McDougall: I think he showed alot of promise in defence late last season. managed to attack a fair bit of half-back and did some inspiring things (that smother vs Buddy Franklin). I'm hoping he can cement his spot, because he could be a very good defender for us next year.

Wayde Skipper: Saved his skin in the last 7 rounds. I want to see him tried up forward properly; give him a run in the NAB cup. His problem is his confidence, or lack of it. Could be a very good forward for us, strong mark, good long kick and big guy. Whether he'll pull it off or not, I'm doubtful.

[FrediKanoute]

This is only my take, but I think with a player like Eagle, who is still a good player, but probably not likely to improve greatly its better to focus on the positives of what he brings to the table.

Unless he loses speed, his hard running abilities, or the depth in his kicking he should still be a useful contributor, albeit in a smaller role if some of the younger players can step up. He may play a few more run with type roles, but I see many others capable of improving far more than Eagle on the list. And I see many others whose improvement would have more influence on the win/loss column.

Again though their ability to add to the side depends ontheir "improvement". Eagle is not going to improve considerably (if at all), so unless his output declines we know exactly what we are going to get from him over the duration of the season. I think many underestimate him a little and just waht he brings to the side. hard running, penetrating kicks and a good mark for his size are traits which are important in the modern game. add to that 200+ games of experience and in a team whcih has retired almost 1000 games of it, that's a commodity we don't have anywhere near enough of. Until Ray, Addison, Hill, Stack, Lynch, Harbrow etc start delivering on a regular basis lock in the eagle in the starting 18.

[dog town]

Do you think that Johnson might need to change his role from KPP to flanker setting up the forwards like a Didak for the team to really be healthy.It all depends on the set up they put around him. Johnson coming out of the square on his own is probably not healthy but I dont think we should completely remove Johnson from the forward 50. Their was a time when Johnson was one of the best leading CHF'S in the comp (sounds ridiculous but under Wallace he was). Last year when they put him up the ground a few times he seemed lost. We will still use him up the ground at times but I dont think we will permanently abandon using Johnson as a scoring weapon inside 50.

Higgins and Aker are both much more similar to Didak than Johnson is. Both are natural crumbing opportunists.

[Dancin' Douggy]

[QUOTE=soupaman;20281]These are the players who I think could greatly improve our side if they improve themselves, and how:


Adam Cooney: Absolute freak. Could easily develop into one of the best match-winners in the comp. Kicks goals, uses ball well, gets clearances, quick, strong, can play forward, flashy, he should become a star. However, he is yet to break games open on a regular, or even irregular basis. He did it once from memory this year (vs Essendon), and needs to get himself mentally right (plus have a good pre-season). He too often accepts the tag. He is one player who could make a difference of 4-5 wins a year if he can lift, him and Griffen being two players on our list who I believe could develop into top 10 midfielders of the competition.

If Adam took 4 or 5 more steps before shooting for goal he would be in another class.
Too often he lets fly too soon when not under pressure and the kick gets touched on the line, punched through or punched back into play. I imagine a goal a week goes begging because of it. More responsibility and confidence and he could be the best player in the league. And I'm serious.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Again though their ability to add to the side depends ontheir "improvement". Eagle is not going to improve considerably (if at all), so unless his output declines we know exactly what we are going to get from him over the duration of the season. I think many underestimate him a little and just waht he brings to the side. hard running, penetrating kicks and a good mark for his size are traits which are important in the modern game. add to that 200+ games of experience and in a team whcih has retired almost 1000 games of it, that's a commodity we don't have anywhere near enough of. Until Ray, Addison, Hill, Stack, Lynch, Harbrow etc start delivering on a regular basis lock in the eagle in the starting 18.

Agreed - its really up to the youngsters to improve enough to be able to perform in his role. Ray was given every opportunity to this year but he didn't really nail it. Eagle flies below the radar a bit as a senior player who was never a superstar but nonetheless is a pretty solid and smart contributor.

[Scorlibo]

I think Cooney has been too heavily criticised, this year was his fourth year and he produced improvements in most areas of his game. Griffen on the other hand gets all the raps, when in every season so far Griffen has been behind where Cooney was in the previous season, and 2008 doesn't look to be any different, especially because of Griffen's injury. Both of them have such enormous potential, and 2008 will be a big season for both them. Cooney will look to really step up into the elite, and Griffen will look to vastly improve on last year (not just talking about injury here, before that he wasn't playing very well either).

Gia, Hahn, Murph, Cross and Gilbee all had a performance decline in 2007 largely because of injury, and if they get their fitness up (Crosser we needn't worry about) and remain injury free, then we should see two years worth of improvement from them, as they are all hitting that peak performance age.

Westy, Johnno, Boyd, Harris, Hargrave, Hudson, Welsh and Morris all had good, up to scratch seasons, and should (with the exception of Westy perhaps) maintain that form.

Higgins, Cooney, Griffen, Everitt, Ray, Minson, Williams, O'Shea, Ward, Grant, Harbrow, Lynch and Addison are the young names who will only continue to improve with age.

And then there is Wight, McDougall, Skipper, Street, Eagleton, Callan and Tiller who don't really fit into any of these groups and are the ones who will find it tough to find a spot in the side and even on the list. Wight is still quite young and does show signs of improvement but needs to improve more urgently than the young list of players above. Eagleton finds himself nearing 30, and becoming more and more of a fringe player. Callan could be anything, and Tiller is in a similar situation to Wight.

I suppose the best part about so many players underperforming this year is that there is so much room for improvement.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I suppose the best part about so many players underperforming this year is that there is so much room for improvement.

Agreed Scorlibo - we didn't have too many players whose years we could have been that pleased with

[LostDoggy]

Shaun Higgins: Everybody has nothing but praise for this kid, has strength, goal sense, class, brilliant footskills, a nice burst of pace and according to my sisters and all other girls I know, is absolutely gorgeous. At the moment though he is a bit part player up forward. He needs to start working harder. His defensive pressure is weak, and he doesn't win much of the ball. Could become a very good player, but needs to work harder going both ways, he currently seems like a cherry picker.



I really enjoyed reading your posts and you made a lot of sense but Higgins is the one that still has a lot if upside.
His best is vgood but he can be a innocent bystander at times as well which really frustrates me. If they can get him interested in the defensive side of football he would become an elite midfielder.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Yep its a good list Soupaman

There would be few supporters who didn't want to see most of those guys on your list make the improvements suggested.

I know that Rays kicking, Higgins fitness/defensive efforts and Addisons decision making/confidence are high on my priority list for 2008

[rgcarter@net-tech.co]

Clearly the most important need for our team and club is confidence.

[Harbrow_hero]

Im surprised that harbrow gets a few mentions here.I rekon he did well as a rookie.

[wimberga]

Im surprised that harbrow gets a few mentions here.I rekon he did well as a rookie.

I dont think anyone is denying his first year in AFL was a success for himself and the club. Just more that he needs to continue to improve, as those younger players need to continue improving for the next 5 years for fear of the younger players coming through.

[hujsh]

I think a tall young forward might be better off playing deep. Johnson was a last resort for our team as the key forward and is now our first option. Imagine if the forwardline wasn't working with a tall defender on top of our solid key forward so we move Johno there and he runs riot

[bornadog]

Adam Cooney: Absolute freak. Could easily develop into one of the best match-winners in the comp. .

Your right and Adam realizes that in order to take the next step you need to be a lot fitter. I believe he is working on his fitness and aiming for the top. At least he is going into this pre-season injury free.

[Bulldog1954]

To challenge for a top 4 position guys like Cooney, Ray and Griffen who all have the ability to be stars need to get to that level sooner rather then later. Cooney IMO is already a gun, however he is potentially a top 5 in the league sort of player. He is capable of doing what Gary Ablett did this year. Further improvement from Williams could also make a big difference, he took a massive step forward last year and hopefully can do so again.

Minson also needs a big year, to be honest I think he is fairly limited and i'm far from confident he will ever be a really good player. I hope I am wrong because we need a lot better season from him this year then last

[Go_Dogs]

Your right and Adam realizes that in order to take the next step you need to be a lot fitter. I believe he is working on his fitness and aiming for the top. At least he is going into this pre-season injury free.

For all his apparent laid back persona, he is definitely one of the most determined players we have at the club, which is crucial. He has the talent and leadership qualities, and wants to be the best, and will do everything he can do get there.

[LostDoggy]

Here's a list ive compiled of players who i belive need a big season or they might come under fire at seasons end:

(in no order)
Addison - Yes he may be tough as nails but needs to imporve in many of his grey areas. Its going to be hard to break into the backline now with Everitt cementing a spot. May need to look to the midfield and become a tagger/runwithplayer.

Eagleton - Not getting any younger and lacks a defensive side which has been well documented. For the good of the team i hope Ray successfully challenges for the wing position.

McDougall - Needs to cement a spot, either forward or back. Simple as that. I dont hold much hope.

Skipper - This latest injury i think will severely hamper his season. He will be going into 2008 with no pre season combined with the fact that he has to fight for his spot in the team. If Minson takes the no.2 ruck duties the only option is for Skip to become a forward. I wont hold my breath.

Street - One thing that will effect both Street and Skipper will be the arrivals of the new ruckman in the rookie draft this year and hopefully Cordy new year. I cant see Street getting a game unless one of Minson or Hudson go down.

Wight- Needs to find a position. I still have hope he can make it as a ruckman but still lacks the size (weight wise) to be anything more than a flanker.

All comments welcome.

I have given this some thought and I do agree that the players you have nominated need to lift, the ones that will make the biggest difference to the team I consider to be -

Farren Ray .. He made progress last year but isn't anywhere near consistent enough. A change of position might just be the tonic for him but if we can extract some more from him then he could make a big difference to the team.

Will Minson .. Had a shocking season even before the injuries cut him down. He struggles with his marking and gives away too many free kicks. A season where he holds his marks and work in well with Hudson would go a long way towards fixing our midfield problems.

Robert Murphy .. Simply speaking him we need him to play to his potential