Dustin Martin

[Go_Dogs]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-12-07/dustin-martin-apologises-after-restaurant-altercation.mobileapp

Glad this bloke doesn't play for our Club!

Will be interesting to see what comes of this given it seems to have a number of implications, including violence against women.

[bulldogtragic]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-12-07/dustin-martin-apologises-after-restaurant-altercation.mobileapp

Glad this bloke doesn't play for our Club!

Will be interesting to see what comes of this given it seems to have a number of implications, including violence against women.

I'm sure the AFL Integrity Unit will investigate the matter... I dare anyone to hold their breath waiting for anything resembling accountability.

[GVGjr]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2015-12-07/dustin-martin-apologises-after-restaurant-altercation.mobileapp

Glad this bloke doesn't play for our Club!

Will be interesting to see what comes of this given it seems to have a number of implications, including violence against women.

I've been following some discussions on Twitter. A few people seem to think because he has apologised it should be enough and one or two others seem to think she has accepted the apology. A couple of others seem to think that because he was intoxicated it sort of lessens the severity. How's the standard in society at the moment?

Even a guy in the media's main comment was that he was surprised Martin could get a table at the restaurant.

Here is a tip for the Richmond footy club, being drunk is not an excuse and making an apology does not lessen the severity of the act.
This is a time for the club to set some standards.

[Maddog37]

AFL will investigate and place a ban on chopsticks at all venues henceforth. Problem solved.

[bornadog]

I've been following some discussions on Twitter. A few people seem to think because he has apologised it should be enough and one or two others seem to think she has accepted the apology. A couple of others seem to think that because he was intoxicated it sort of lessens the severity. How's the standard in society at the moment?

Even a guy in the media's main comment was that he was surprised Martin could get a table at the restaurant.

Here is a tip for the Richmond footy club, being drunk is not an excuse and making an apology does not lessen the severity of the act.
This is a time for the club to set some standards.

Will be interesting to see what the club does

[Bulldog Joe]

I am sure the chopsticks have been lost and cannot be interviewed or examined.

Consequently there is no case to answer.

[Go_Dogs]

Here is a tip for the Richmond footy club, being drunk is not an excuse and making an apology does not lessen the severity of the act.
This is a time for the club to set some standards.

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm surprised at the media/social-media reaction.
Being drunk is certainly not an excuse, and the line that gets trotted 'If anything I have done has caused anyone to feel threatened...' - please. I'm sure the intimidatory threats of stabbing her in the face and punching the wall were not intended in such a manner.

If the AFL and/or Richmond stand for anything, this should result in a significant sanction. I don't know what a 'significant sanction' equates to in AFL circles, but if the AFL are serious about issues relating to violence against women, alcohol abuse and whatever the reference to 'continually going in and out of the bathroom' is, then something big needs to happen.

[Remi Moses]

Apparently the girl was only joking

[LostDoggy]

Thank Christ that Pinhead isn't at our club.

What a poor excuse for a human being.

Such a big tough macho man to be intimadating and threatening a woman with physical violence.

You make me SICK. :mad:

[Twodogs]

I've been following some discussions on Twitter. A few people seem to think because he has apologised it should be enough and one or two others seem to think she has accepted the apology. A couple of others seem to think that because he was intoxicated it sort of lessens the severity. How's the standard in society at the moment?

Even a guy in the media's main comment was that he was surprised Martin could get a table at the restaurant.

Here is a tip for the Richmond footy club, being drunk is not an excuse and making an apology does not lessen the severity of the act.
This is a time for the club to set some standards.

I don't think he did apologise. I can't see the word sorry anywhere.l


"Regrettably, I was intoxicated and that in itself is completely unacceptable," Martin said.

"I do however take responsibility for my behaviour and I am deeply embarrassed.

"If anything I have said or done has caused anyone to feel threatened then that is totally inappropriate."

[bornadog]

Alcohol doesn't make you change your personality, if anything it shows what you are really like.

[Twodogs]

Alcohol doesn't make you change your personality, if anything it shows what you are really like.


Dead right.

[Sedat]

Wayne Carey should have taken out a patent on the scripted faux-apology - he would be a multi-billionaire by now.

[Ghost Dog]

Alcohol doesn't make you change your personality, if anything it shows what you are really like.

I asked this question to a person who owns a bar the other day. She disagreed.

[GVGjr]

I don't think he did apologise. I can't see the word sorry anywhere.l


"Regrettably, I was intoxicated and that in itself is completely unacceptable," Martin said.

"I do however take responsibility for my behaviour and I am deeply embarrassed.

"If anything I have said or done has caused anyone to feel threatened then that is totally inappropriate."

This is also in the article

"The Tigers said on Monday afternoon Martin's apology to the woman had since been accepted. "

[Dancin' Douggy]

Threatening to stab a woman in the face, in a public place, a restaurant no less. Then slamming the wall behind her head because she's going to 'dob' on you. What a pathetic act of thuggery. He really comes from very very bad stock and I just wonder what stupid thick advice his father has given him since childhood. This is VERY serious in my opinion. Imagine what he'd be like without all the disciplines and education he gets in an AFL environment. Great player, but just trouble on a stick.

[bornadog]

Threatening to stab a woman in the face, in a public place, a restaurant no less. Then slamming the wall behind her head because she's going to 'dob' on you. What a pathetic act of thuggery. He really comes from very very bad stock and I just wonder what stupid thick advice his father has given him since childhood. This is VERY serious in my opinion. Imagine what he'd be like without all the disciplines and education he gets in an AFL environment. Great player, but just trouble on a stick.

I wonder if a male had of stepped in if he would have thumped them one? I wouldn't be surprised, he is a low scum bag.

[Remi Moses]

What a shit bloke he is .
Richmonds response was insipid to say the least .
I suggest anyone watching hitting home that was on the ABC a few weeks back .
Domestic violence and violence against women is a shame on society .
Clubs give lip service to all this, and if it's a key player they'll go lenient on the player

[Murphy'sLore]

A hiccup?

Really, Richmond? If that's the best they can do, that's very disappointing.

[bornadog]

Ban Tigers star Dustin Martin for 12 months, urges Richmond legend Kevin Bartlett (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/ban-tigers-star-dustin-martin-for-12-months-urges-richmond-legend-kevin-bartlett-20151207-glhy7l.html?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-14omn0023-optim-nnn:nonpaid-27/06/2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-age-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_twitter)

[westdog54]

Maybe not 12 months as KB had suggested, but anything short if a significant sanction would be disgraceful.

This is a disgusting and pitiful act. Martin needs a reminder of the priveliged situation he finds himself in.

[Twodogs]

I would consider 12 months, while it maybe harsh, to be a appropriate penalty. He should miss matches at the very least. It was a horrifying thing to do.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I'm with KB. 12 months.

You know this is so typical of domestic violence.

"I'm gonna f%$#ing kill ya"

"I'm sorry"

"I'm gonna f%$#ing kill ya"

"I'm sorry"

"I'm gonna f%$#ing kill ya"

"I'm sorry"

"I'm gonna f%$#ing kill ya"

"I'm sorry"................you get the picture.

[Murphy'sLore]

Not quite on topic, but related: I read a horrific article in this week's Good Weekend -- apparently an episode of attempted strangulation is a huge warning sign. Women who have suffered attempted strangulation by their partner are something like 800% more likely to end up being murdered by him.

[Scraggers]

There is no excuse for violence against women. Dustin will receive a wrap on the knuckles and a fine ... that is all. He is an integral part of Richmond's success and therefore cannot receive anything greater than that. The only players/coaches et al that receive appropriate sanctions are peripheral players/coaches.
Case(s) in point:-
Collingwood's pair Lachie Keefe and Josh Thomas (illicit drugs)
St. Kilda's Ahmed Saad (energy drink)
Fremantle's Ryan Crowley (pain killer)
GWS recruiter Paul Brodie (multi-bet)

None of these were 'required' players/coaches and therefore felt the full power or the law. Martin is a required player

[Murphy'sLore]

Where would you put Libba in that list, Scraggers?

[azabob]

Where would you put Libba in that list, Scraggers?

ML, let's get one thing straight. Liberatore did not test positive to anything. He was caught with an illicit drug and was only suspended because the club chose to.

The Collingwood boys were suspended because of performance enhancing drugs, no illicit drugs.

[Scraggers]

Where would you put Libba in that list, Scraggers?

That's a good point ... in 2012 he was given one strike by the AFL and suspended for the remainder of the season by the Bulldogs. (not a big sanction considering our ladder position that year). Earlier this year he missed appointments which put him back on the radar; there is no (overt) evidence that he relapsed with drugs, but again he was sanctioned by the club. I have no issue with the way he was dealt with ... swift and firm.

[Twodogs]

Not quite on topic, but related: I read a horrific article in this week's Good Weekend -- apparently an episode of attempted strangulation is a huge warning sign. Women who have suffered attempted strangulation by their partner are something like 800% more likely to end up being murdered by him.


That's a shocking stat. 800% is a lot.

[Murphy'sLore]

Not disputing the facts, Aza, just taking note of the way the club handled it at the time (fwiw, I thought it was an appropriate sanction).

But it's interesting to wonder if the approach would have been different if we'd been seriously challenging at the time.

[jeemak]

Can he be sacked and picked up in the PSD on a basic contract?

Surely his current deal has behavioural clauses within it that can be invoked.

[Happy Days]

If the AFL and/or Richmond stand for anything, this should result in a significant sanction. I don't know what a 'significant sanction' equates to in AFL circles, but if the AFL are serious about issues relating to violence against women, alcohol abuse and whatever the reference to 'continually going in and out of the bathroom' is, then something big needs to happen.

HAHAHAHA.

The AFL is only serious about women's issues when it can work to the betterment of their #brand. Nothing the AFL does pisses me off more than the lip service to women in the game than we see in the pink washing of the MCG every year as if it means anything to them beyond a helicopter photo and a hashtag.

If they want to be an amoral entity and leave disciplining of social issues up to the clubs and/or the police then that's fine! But how dare they continue to pick and choose their battles as if they are a political party.

With that in mind, if the AFL's form line is anything to go by, if he abused the woman then "Dusty's got his problems to work through, we all know that, but he's just focusing on helping the boys on the field in 2016", if he did it while pissed it'll make some great Footy Show "banter" in about 5 years, but if he did it on DRUGSEVILDRUGS then he might actually be hanged on the steps of AFL house.

[westdog54]

The only piece left in this scenario is for Sam Newman to come out and say what an overreaction this has all been and Martin is only being criticised because he's a footballer.

[bornadog]

Dustin was just a goose no more :rolleyes:

(note doctored for fun)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVrFg6yUAAA9IK3.jpg:large

[Scraggers]

Acted like a goose ... Way to hit him with both barrels Brendon

[Throughandthrough]

Nick Stevens to act as a character witness?

[bornadog]

Now after much backlash through social media etc,


RICHMOND has belatedly taken a much stronger public stance after star Dustin Martin allegedly threatened a woman in a drunken incident.

Tigers chief executive Brendon Gale said in a statement that the Saturday night incident was very serious and it demands a thorough investigation.


He said Richmond is incredibly disappointed in Martin, who has apologised to the woman.


Earlier on Tuesday, club legend Kevin Bartlett demanded that Richmond ban Martin for 12 months and he make a $50,000 donation to an appropriate charity.


On Monday, Tigers football manager Dan Richardson had called the incident a hiccup.


Richmond is working with the AFL in investigating the matter and the club will make an announcement by the end of the week on what action they will take against Martin.


"This is a very serious matter that requires a thorough investigation and we are working with the AFL to ensure we have all the facts before us," Gale said.


"I want to be clear that any threat of physical violence against a woman - or any member of the public for that matter - is completely unacceptable.


"Dustin is disappointed in his behaviour and we are incredibly disappointed in Dustin."

AFL said they will help investigate the matter - maybe Telliar can give Martin some pointers on how to stretch this out. :D

[bornadog]

Acted like a goose ... Way to hit him with both barrels Brendon

Ok the real statement :D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVra_AAUAAAGiS1.jpg

[GVGjr]

I want to be as fair as I can but as a minimum a 4 week sanction from the home and away season needs to be the starting point. The more I read about it I think a better outcome is 6 weeks. If it's more than that I'd support it but I'm trying to work out a penalty that the AFL and Richmond could work towards.
It then becomes a huge starting point for any other acts of violence against women.

Also, is there any reason why a police charge couldn't be made? He's threatened harm and has acknowledged that.

The guy who assaulted that lady in Freo got 9 months in the big house didn't he?

[Ghost Dog]

I want to be as fair as I can but as a minimum a 4 week sanction from the home and away season needs to be the starting point. The more I read about it I think a better outcome is 6 weeks. If it's more than that I'd support it but I'm trying to work out a penalty that the AFL and Richmond could work towards.
It then becomes a huge starting point for any other acts of violence against women.

Also, is there any reason why a police charge couldn't be made? He's threatened harm and has acknowledged that.

The guy who assaulted that lady in Freo got 9 months in the big house didn't he?

If the victim were a man, would it make it anymore right?

[Scraggers]

Why does it always have to be about acts of violence against women? Why can't it just be about acts of violence? If the victim were a man, would it make it anymore right?

I agree with what you are saying ... any threat of violence against a man or woman is wrong; but with the prevalence of domestic violence predominantly against women (because sometimes men are victims too) and the fact that we are trying to champion women within our sport, but especially as we have our own ambassador Marcus Bontempelli and other AFL superstars spruiking THE LINE aimed at tackling the issue of violence against women; Martin needs to be made an example.

[Sedat]

The guy who assaulted that lady in Freo got 9 months in the big house didn't he?
He can't hit up Riewoldt lace-out though ;)

[Maddog37]

Richmond must be planning a strategy to exit him out of the club now surely! I guess the problem is that when he was on the market recently no one wanted to pay his asking price.

[whythelongface]

I want to be as fair as I can but as a minimum a 4 week sanction from the home and away season needs to be the starting point. The more I read about it I think a better outcome is 6 weeks. If it's more than that I'd support it but I'm trying to work out a penalty that the AFL and Richmond could work towards.
It then becomes a huge starting point for any other acts of violence against women.

Also, is there any reason why a police charge couldn't be made? He's threatened harm and has acknowledged that.

The guy who assaulted that lady in Freo got 9 months in the big house didn't he?

Yes something like that.

Will criminal charges be laid against Martin? It is a serious threat.

I agree with Bartlett stating that he should receive a 12 month ban. Doubt this will happen and he will end up doing some community service with a ban of 4 to 6 matches to commence the season.

[westdog54]

I want to be as fair as I can but as a minimum a 4 week sanction from the home and away season needs to be the starting point. The more I read about it I think a better outcome is 6 weeks. If it's more than that I'd support it but I'm trying to work out a penalty that the AFL and Richmond could work towards.
It then becomes a huge starting point for any other acts of violence against women.

Also, is there any reason why a police charge couldn't be made? He's threatened harm and has acknowledged that.

The guy who assaulted that lady in Freo got 9 months in the big house didn't he?

The Freo guy also assaulted/resisted Police on apprehension and had other matters.

In relation to Police action, you need the cooperation of the victim in order for the matter to be further investigated.

If an independent witness were to assist Police there are some offences against Statute that could be considered (Use threatening words/behave in a riotous/offensive manner etc).

[bulldogtragic]

My bet is they ban him for the NAB Cup after banishing him from the main training group and put him with a specialist fitness trainer with a regime set by the club and expect some spin to resolve everything... My closest guess is something like this:

"We as a club, CEO, coach, leadership group and players have taken the serious action of immediately suspending Dustin from being at the club, a place he loves to be. We are suspending Dustin as for him not to attend training for at least the next 8 weeks to serve the ban away from the playing group. Dustin was expecting a break out season and was training the house down but we needed to make a stand against violence against women and drive standards in society, as well as a club. We are further suspending Dustin for the entire NAB Cup, not only a couple of games. We think a suspension that includes 3 games of competitive AFL games is necessary on top of an 8 week club suspension. We unreservedly apologise and express disappointment about Dustin's behaviour and hope Dustin takes this training and playing suspension with maturity and commits to improving his off field behaviour. The club and Dustin have apologised to the woman involved and Dustin has made a $2,500 donation to the White Ribbon Foundation and will undertake an anger management course. We have advised the AFL of this course of action and have their complete support. We trust this concludes this matter and hope everyone can now move on".


I.e. No real substance in managing his conduct whatsoever while pretending they have.

[bulldogtragic]

The Freo guy also assaulted/resisted Police on apprehension and had other matters.

In relation to Police action, you need the cooperation of the victim in order for the matter to be further investigated.

If an independent witness were to assist Police there are some offences against Statute that could be considered (Use threatening words/behave in a riotous/offensive manner etc).


Use threatening words, that old chest nut. He might strike out of luck and get a non-conviction with a stern lecture if found guilty. I think id prefer him to be tried-by-media without the ability to hide behind 'as it's an active police investigation it's inappropriate to comment further'. Leave him and the club exposed to the full media force. Highlights the difference between them and our club holding the White Ribbon Cup and Bonts being an ambassador against violence against women.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Bit of a tough one to penalise.

12 months would send a very clear message and whilst I'd support it given his numerous indiscretions, one could argue that is a little harsh.

However, 4 weeks off seems too light IMO. With the restrictions on fines (AFLPA) I think a 10 week ban would suffice. It's harsh enough that it sends a strong message, but it does provide some light at the end of the tunnel. The rest is up to him.

At this point from a longer term perspective it's looking like he'll be out of the game before he decides to retire. In other words, sacked/pushed.

[LostDoggy]

It really would be in his and the clubs best long term interests to give him a meaningful penalty (8 weeks of season proper minimum, full season max) however, as BT articulates quite precisely, he's too important an onfield asset so he'll get the kid gloves and miss the preseason and a game or 2 max. Most organisations rate short term outcomes far too highly relative to the long term big picture.

If the club do ban him from training over the next couple of months, really suspect that has disaster written all over it. Reckon there's a fair precedent building up of some blokes being far better off within the club environment, training hard, around peers and being monitored closely. If an immature dolt like Dusty is exiled and left to his own devices about now, bad things could result.

[jeemak]

It really would be in his and the clubs best long term interests to give him a meaningful penalty (8 weeks of season proper minimum, full season max) however, as BT articulates quite precisely, he's too important an onfield asset so he'll get the kid gloves and miss the preseason and a game or 2 max. Most organisations rate short term outcomes far too highly relative to the long term big picture.

If the club do ban him from training over the next couple of months, really suspect that has disaster written all over it. Reckon there's a fair precedent building up of some blokes being far better off within the club environment, training hard, around peers and being monitored closely. If an immature dolt like Dusty is exiled and left to his own devices about now, bad things could result.

By bad things, do you mean actually killing someone with a chopstick face stab instead of just threatening to do so?

I hate the numbnut boofhead culture this guy epitomises. I hate how News Limited on the one hand sexes up the exploits of dickheads like him, and then waits for them to fall over so they can publicly whip them.

More so, I hate that arse clowns like Bruce and his Ch7 chronies will be lining up to kiss his backside when he takes a game that in which, by rights he shouldn't be playing in because of his terrible behaviour, by the scruff of the neck. Forgetting that deep down, he's a genuine shit stain on our society and not deserving of any hype or adulation.

Finally, I hate how I still get worked up expecting the AFL, or society to actually call wankers like Martin out and start punishing them for being the wankers they are. I should know better.

[Remi Moses]

Ten weeks or a year, and the guy won't change .
Caroline Wilson defending Richardson on the initial statement was totally insane.
Stated that Richmond thought the young lady had accepted his apology and moved on. Hence the"hiccup" statement.
Richardson should be called to account as well as Martin .

[whythelongface]

Is this type of behaviour ingrained in an individual or can they change through rehabilitation? Each individual person I would think is different, however it would be interesting to know the percentage of people that previously committed some form of violent act who have been able to undertake some form of therapy and come out the other end changed. I would think that it is a very small percentage that actually are able or are willing to change.

Richmond and the AFL really need to ask the question whether this individual is able to change and are not just tinkering around the edges with a small ban and a fine. There really needs to be some form of rehab that he needs to attend (not sure how long this process would be) and then he needs to prove himself that he has changed. First of all he needs to be able to want to change. He should be stood down immediately and not be involved with RIchmond or the AFL until he can prove (through independent assessments) that he has changed. Unfortunately this won't happen and, as others have pointed out, he will be "punished" with the obligatory fine/ donation and suspension for a few games. This basically states, from both Richmond and the AFL, that we accept violence per se and that the club and its supporters are valued more than society as a whole. It is just brushed aside in the hope that he won't re-offend until the next time and we go through the same piss weak process again and again and again.

Somebody in these organisations needs to make some hard calls and actually make these people responsible for their actions. Like it or not they are role models and their behaviour influences the behaviour of future generations.

[Murphy'sLore]

There was a very moving documentary on the ABC recently, 'Call Me Dad', which looked at the role that men's counselling and support groups can perform in keeping men who are at risk of perpetrating violence accountable for their actions and attitudes. Really excellent stuff. This particular group was called Heavy M.E.T.A.L. and they seem to be doing some amazing work.

Change is possible but it's a long hard road for everyone involved, and the crucial thing is, the men need to be willing to take responsibility and want to change. Don't know if Martin is there yet.

[Ghost Dog]

I agree with what you are saying ... any threat of violence against a man or woman is wrong; but with the prevalence of domestic violence predominantly against women (because sometimes men are victims too) and the fact that we are trying to champion women within our sport, but especially as we have our own ambassador Marcus Bontempelli and other AFL superstars spruiking THE LINE aimed at tackling the issue of violence against women; Martin needs to be made an example.

I see your point.
Who works for the law here? If ordinary Joe Shmoe went into a bar and half-pissed, told someone he was going to kill them with a chopstick, what would the punishment be? IF they were half-joking, or half-serious regardless, what would the penalty be?

Then beyond that, why does the AFL need to be involved at the level of punishment?
We can't have it both ways - on one hand we decry AFL protectionism ( Essendone ) and on the other, turning the AFL into some sort of agent for social change at a mass level.
I would have thought Police should apply their penalty, and the Richmond leadership group will apply theirs, but not sure the AFL should have anything to do with the incident. Their job is at a broader level.


Somebody in these organisations needs to make some hard calls and actually make these people responsible for their actions. Like it or not they are role models and their behaviour influences the behaviour of future generations.

It's very hard to change adults. You had best begin with the next generation.

On one hand we have the celebration and constant replay of the 1989 hit on Dermott Brereton as a classic moment in sport.
So tell me that violence is not a part of Australian culture and the AFL profits from it?

[Twodogs]

There was a very moving documentary on the ABC recently, 'Call Me Dad', which looked at the role that men's counselling and support groups can perform in keeping men who are at risk of perpetrating violence accountable for their actions and attitudes. Really excellent stuff. This particular group was called Heavy M.E.T.A.L. and they seem to be doing some amazing work.

Change is possible but it's a long hard road for everyone involved, and the crucial thing is, the men need to be willing to take responsibility and want to change. Don't know if Martin is there yet.

I did see that, very confronting.

My son pointed out that the biggest bogan out of all of them was wearing a bulldog jumper.

[Drunken Bum]

Is this type of behaviour ingrained in an individual or can they change through rehabilitation? Each individual person I would think is different, however it would be interesting to know the percentage of people that previously committed some form of violent act who have been able to undertake some form of therapy and come out the other end changed. I would think that it is a very small percentage that actually are able or are willing to change.

All violent offenders should be given powerful psychedelics like DMT, ayahuasca and ibogaine, once they face their demons and realise we are all one change is inevitable. Actually i believe in Peru violent offenders can undergo ayahuasca treatments in prison and it's produced some very positive results

EDIT: actually it's Brazil not Peru

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/world/americas/a-hallucinogenic-tea-time-for-some-brazilian-prisoners.html

http://www.ayahuasca-info.com/

[Twodogs]

All violent offenders should be given powerful psychedelics like DMT, ayahuasca and ibogaine, once they face their demons and realise we are all one change is inevitable. Actually i believe in Peru violent offenders can undergo ayahuasca treatments in prison and it's produced some very positive results

EDIT: actually it's Brazil not Peru

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/world/americas/a-hallucinogenic-tea-time-for-some-brazilian-prisoners.html

http://reset.me/story/brazil-offers-ayahuasca-to-violent-crime-inmates-on-their-path-to-redemption/

Wow. That's an interesting program. I saw a similar thing on TV a couple of weeks ago wherevBuddhist monks were making a violent purgative to meth heads in order to vomit the toxins out of their system. It's all their way or the highway but they were getting really good results.

[Remi Moses]

God spare me .
Nine talking to tiger fans on their way to the agm
Mountain out of a molehill, nothing to see here .
Gotta love the rusted on fans :rolleyes:

[Drunken Bum]

Wow. That's an interesting program. I saw a similar thing on TV a couple of weeks ago wherevBuddhist monks were making a violent purgative to meth heads in order to vomit the toxins out of their system. It's all their way or the highway but they were getting really good results.

It's ironic that some of the most effective treatments for addiction are also illegal, Ibogaine has proven to be very effective treating heroin and meth addictions, ayhauasca as well as well as being effective treating depression, thankfully the door is open to proper research on these powerful medicines again after being shut down for so long.
LSD was very nearly a part of the AA 12 step program before being made illegal and has had positive results in treating addictions along with psilocybin.
If you're at all interested in the subject MAPS and reset me are two good sites to start off, with lots of great information.

http://reset.me/story/howpsychedelicssavedmylife/

http://www.maps.org/

I have a bit of personal experience myself, i was pretty much an alcoholic for most of my adult life before stumbling upon psychedelics, don't get me wrong i was using them for partying but had a profound effect on me, probably one of the most significant events in my life, i'm a far better person for having found them, they've been powerful medicines for 1000's of years and we are only just now beginning to acknowledge that.

[Bulldog4life]

It's ironic that some of the most effective treatments for addiction are also illegal, Ibogaine has proven to be very effective treating heroin and meth addictions, ayhauasca as well as well as being effective treating depression, thankfully the door is open to proper research on these powerful medicines again after being shut down for so long.
LSD was very nearly a part of the AA 12 step program before being made illegal and has had positive results in treating addictions along with psilocybin.
If you're at all interested in the subject MAPS and reset me are two good sites to start off, with lots of great information.

http://reset.me/story/howpsychedelicssavedmylife/

http://www.maps.org/

I have a bit of personal experience myself, i was pretty much an alcoholic for most of my adult life before stumbling upon psychedelics, don't get me wrong i was using them for partying but had a profound effect on me, probably one of the most significant events in my life, i'm a far better person for having found them, they've been powerful medicines for 1000's of years and we are only just now beginning to acknowledge that.

Bert Newton was undergoing treatment for a severe mental breakdown in the 60's when he was legally injected with a potent dose of LSD. Resulted him having a very "bad trip" and made him worse.

[Drunken Bum]

Bert Newton was undergoing treatment for a severe mental breakdown in the 60's when he was legally injected with a potent dose of LSD. Resulted him having a very "bad trip" and made him worse.

Don't want to derail the thread so not going to get into anymore discussion here on it, apologies for going off track i only brought the subject up in response to a question as i thought it was relevant.
I was just now considering starting a thread somewhere more appropriate on the subject of drugs in society and how we should deal with them as i believe it's a subject that is very important but wasn't sure where to put it, thought maybe in the hyde street band enclosure but wasn't sure if that would appropriate in there either.

[Twodogs]

http://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?15250-Dusty&p=474684#post474684

Interesting discussion and I'm happy to have it.

Then we don't derail the thread.

[Ghost Dog]

Where is the evidence that a campaign for violence against women works anyway? For young people I see a point. But for adults I'm not sure how many billboards and commercials you would need to make a rapid difference, Might be better off with trying to lift the general education and literacy of men, then try to get speakers like Phil Cleary to visit in small groups.

[SonofScray]

Eviscerate his behaviour and what it reflects in his beliefs and values publicly. He may very well be free to go through life making money playing the game we love and treating others with contempt, but the media in their descriptions of him should preface any commentary on his amazing skill set with "Dustin Martin, a violent individual who thinks it is acceptable to terrorise women, picks up the ball, wheels onto his left boot and kicks a goal."

Instead he'll get a narrative of triumph and heroism against adversity on return from any suspension where he plays well.

[bulldogtragic]

Eviscerate his behaviour and what it reflects in his beliefs and values publicly. He may very well be free to go through life making money playing the game we love and treating others with contempt, but the media in their descriptions of him should preface any commentary on his amazing skill set with "Dustin Martin, a violent individual who thinks it is acceptable to terrorise women, picks up the ball, wheels onto his left boot and kicks a goal."

Instead he'll get a narrative of triumph and heroism against adversity on return from any suspension where he plays well.

I really fear the last point you make. I can hear it already, 'Dustys come from a long way back after his suspension, with fitness and game time but his attitude when coming back is first rate and speaks to his professionalism and character to come back and be better for it'....

[LostDoggy]

If the media is true to form, some will equate his ability to return to the footy field and still get a kick to his 'rehabilitation' off the field, as if the two are relevant to each other at all.

[The bulldog tragician]

I always feel completely perplexed at the idea that 'education' alone can help men who seem to gain enjoyment from intimidating women. I imagine Dustin sitting in a class with a confused expression on his face as the penny finally drops:
Gee who knew? I now understand that being a hulking footballer standing over a woman threatening to kill her with chopsticks is not a good thing to do. Boy, I wish I'd known this earlier.

Now there is one footballer that crowds would be entitled to boo, but I would be pretty certain it won't happen.

I feel pretty sickened by this incident to be honest. Twelve months seems a long suspension but what a genuine message it would send to those that hero worship guys like him, that the AFL really means it when they talk about their responsibilities in the community.

[Twodogs]

I always feel completely perplexed at the idea that 'education' alone can help men who seem to gain enjoyment from intimidating women. I imagine Dustin sitting in a class with a confused expression on his face as the penny finally drops:
Gee who knew? I now understand that being a hulking footballer standing over a woman threatening to kill her with chopsticks is not a good thing to do. Boy, I wish I'd known this earlier.

Now there is one footballer that crowds would be entitled to boo, but I would be pretty certain it won't happen.

I feel pretty sickened by this incident to be honest. Twelve months seems a long suspension but what a genuine message it would send to those that hero worship guys like him, that the AFL really means it when they talk about their responsibilities in the community.

Well said. I'm beginning to firm on 12 months as being an appropriate sanction.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Lets imagine he's a player who's on the rookie list.
I bet he'd be INSTANTLY DISMISSED.

[westdog54]

Where is the evidence that a campaign for violence against women works anyway? For young people I see a point. But for adults I'm not sure how many billboards and commercials you would need to make a rapid difference, Might be better off with trying to lift the general education and literacy of men, then try to get speakers like Phil Cleary to visit in small groups.

Please don't see this as a crack, but the idea that literacy is a factor here is bunk.

Family violence happens through all sectors of the community. Some are simply better at keeping it in-house than others.

There's no silver bullet here. All of society has a role to play. Police, the Courts, the Community. It will take generations. It may never happen. I pray that it does.

[bulldogtragic]

Please don't see this as a crack, but the idea that literacy is a factor here is bunk.

Family violence happens through all sectors of the community. Some are simply better at keeping it in-house than others.

There's no silver bullet here. All of society has a role to play. Police, the Courts, the Community. It will take generations. It may never happen. I pray that it does.

Yep. The first lifeless bashed woman I came across (after the husband rang 000 saying he killed his wife) was in an exclusive street, in an exclusive suburb. It's absolutely everywhere and it's completely repugnant, and I can recall every murder victim in great detail. Police and the courts can only do so much as their functions are reactionary by their very nature. It's up to the broader community to stop the hundreds of bashings that will be dished out to women tonight alone. That journey is a million miles long and the AFL by making a big statement has the ability to take a big step further down the journey. The AFL should put its power to good use and help save women from abuse, violence or death. They have an opportunity, I hope they take it.

[Ghost Dog]

Please don't see this as a crack, but the idea that literacy is a factor here is bunk.

Family violence happens through all sectors of the community. Some are simply better at keeping it in-house than others.

There's no silver bullet here. All of society has a role to play. Police, the Courts, the Community. It will take generations. It may never happen. I pray that it does.

Not at all WD, interesting topic and I'm always learning. Also not to to appear to disrespect anyone's work or former work in the justice system or personal experience. Some attempt to clarify an issue here a few posts back.


Link (http://australianmensrights.com/Domestic_Violence_Statistics-Child_Abuse_Australia/Domestic_Violence_Statistics-Australian_Bureau_of_Statistics-Womens_Safety_Survey-University_of_Melbourne_study.aspx)
Domestic Violence in Australia: ARE WOMEN AND MEN EQUALLY VIOLENT?
Study - University of Melbourne, La Trobe University

"We are reasonably confident about the first and third results; that female and male partners assault each other about equally often and that violence runs in couples."

Yes, male assaults generally cause far worse injuries. That doesn't mean they happen more often.

As for literacy, it's interesting to note that higher unemployment actually correlates to less domestic violence. (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/when-male-unemployment-rises-domestic-violence-rates-fall/278423/) Granted this is a European study. But it makes sense.

However I disagree that literacy is a non-factor. Any teacher or counsellor will tell you it is far easier to get a message across to people who have a reasonable standard of education. People who have a better education are generally easier to instruct and correct, in regards to behaviours of concern.

[bornadog]

Richmond footballer Dustin Martin to be investigated by police (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/richmond-footballer-dustin-martin-to-be-investigated-by-police-20151210-glkjbt.html)

That is what should have happened in the first place.

[Greystache]

Richmond footballer Dustin Martin to be investigated by police (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/richmond-footballer-dustin-martin-to-be-investigated-by-police-20151210-glkjbt.html)

That is what should have happened in the first place.

It's a bit difficult when the victim goes to the media instead of the police.

[bulldogtragic]

It's a bit difficult when the victim goes to the media instead of the police.

Yep. Also, now 'they' all will hide behind "it's an active police investigation so it's inappropriate to make any comment or take action before the police investigation is finalised". Hence, give nothing to the press and let the storm blow over and do nothing.

[jeemak]

It's a bit difficult when the victim goes to the media instead of the police.


Yep. Also, now 'they' all will hide behind "it's an active police investigation so it's inappropriate to make any comment or take action before the police investigation is finalised". Hence, give nothing to the press and let the storm blow over and do nothing.

If I was a cold hearted bastard, this would have been the position my whiteboarded flow chart directed me to.

[comrade]

It's a bit difficult when the victim goes to the media instead of the police.

In this instance, it was the right move. Gave it plenty of oxygen which may not have been the case had it gone straight to the police.

As BT said, Richmond and the AFL will now hide behind the police investigation and hope it blows over.

[jeemak]

In this instance, it was the right move. Gave it plenty of oxygen which may not have been the case had it gone straight to the police.

As BT said, Richmond and the AFL will now hide behind the police investigation and hope it blows over.

Because the police are so good at keeping secrets? If anything, going to the police would have ensured it entered the public domain much quicker than it did.

Plus, it depends on the motives of those involved. I think it's been intimated that the victim's Ch7 bosses may have encouraged her to go public with the story. Sorry if I seem a little sceptical of the motives employed by the country's most sensationalist TV network..........but whilst that doesn't diminish the significance of what he's done, it will be interesting to see how the matter is portrayed throughout the season upon his inevitable return. My best bet is it will be highly dramatised.

[comrade]

Because the police are so good at keeping secrets? If anything, going to the police would have ensured it entered the public domain much quicker than it did.

Plus, it depends on the motives of those involved. I think it's been intimated that the victim's Ch7 bosses may have encouraged her to go public with the story. Sorry if I seem a little sceptical of the motives employed by the country's most sensationalist TV network..........but whilst that doesn't diminish the significance of what he's done, it will be interesting to see how the matter is portrayed throughout the season upon his inevitable return. My best bet is it will be highly dramatised.

Less about keeping secrets, more about the AFL and Richmond having the ability to control the dialogue by hiding behind an investigation.

See the Hawthorn sexual assault case.

[Sedat]

Because the police are so good at keeping secrets? If anything, going to the police would have ensured it entered the public domain much quicker than it did.

Plus, it depends on the motives of those involved. I think it's been intimated that the victim's Ch7 bosses may have encouraged her to go public with the story. Sorry if I seem a little sceptical of the motives employed by the country's most sensationalist TV network..........but whilst that doesn't diminish the significance of what he's done, it will be interesting to see how the matter is portrayed throughout the season upon his inevitable return. My best bet is it will be highly dramatised.
That piece of shit network would love nothing more than to turn this appalling act into a narrative of heroism and redemption throughout the year.

[comrade]

That piece of shit network would love nothing more than to turn this appalling act into a narrative of heroism and redemption throughout the year.

They get the best of both worlds; if he gets convicted/banned/deregistered etc etc, they can dine out on it all year. If he cops the lettuce leaf treatment and comes back, they can play the redemption angle.

Mass media manipulation 101.

[Twodogs]

That piece of shit network would love nothing more than to turn this appalling act into a narrative of heroism and redemption throughout the year.


That would be sickening.

[SonofScray]

That would be sickening.

Prepare to be sick, it'll happen, as good a bet as Jake Stringer wagging a finger after every goal he kicks. Fans of Australian Rules football and each Club's members really need to find a more organised, collective voice to demand better.

[LostDoggy]

The only similar incident that 'escaped' into public notice I can remember was a few years ago when All-Australian defender Nathan Bock struck his girlfriend and threw his beer at her at a pub in front of witnesses.

He was formally charged with assault and has a criminal record.

His club (AFL endorsed) 'penalty' was a $5,000 fine and indefinite leave, told to come back when he was ready.

This penalty was not broadly criticised.

The comparisons between the 2 cases could be seen as progress in public (in)tolerance for such matters over the past few years. You'd hope so.

[Topdog]

I see your point.
Who works for the law here? If ordinary Joe Shmoe went into a bar and half-pissed, told someone he was going to kill them with a chopstick, what would the punishment be? IF they were half-joking, or half-serious regardless, what would the penalty be?

Then beyond that, why does the AFL need to be involved at the level of punishment?


I'll count myself as Joe Blow here. If my company found out about it I'd be sacked immediately.

[Dancin' Douggy]

It just reeks of learned behaviour to me as well.
Probably saw his old man pull this kind of shit all the time.
Imagine the advice your father would give you about treating women, and treating other members of society when he's a high ranking member of a brutal, criminal organisation.

[azabob]

Who would've thought the AFL would've put pressure on the lady concerned to "play down" the incident?

The AFL wouldn't do that at all, especially considering how professionally they investigated the Kyle Cheney "joke"......

[Remi Moses]

Apparently it was all some sort of joke from the young lady
Whacky prankster.
Incredibly witnesses have "lost " their mobile phones! Who'd have funked it ?
It will all come out in the coverup .
Ladies and gents another contrived managed afl outcome .

[bulldogtragic]

It seems soccer/football fans can generate change through not turning up. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned for afl/football fans.

[GVGjr]

It's interesting but somewhat predictable to read so many Richmond supporters defending Martin's actions. It seems many of them think she should have never requested him to quieten down and that act alone somehow forced Martins actions.
Given I was reading the lady in question is upset with the way the AFL have been handling the investigation and that in her opinion they are trying to get her to water down her comments I suspect we won't see much of a penalty coming Martin's way.

I think there is a fair chance that the penalty will now be a couple of NAB cup games and a fine.

[Ghost Dog]

It's interesting but somewhat predictable to read so many Richmond supporters defending Martin's actions. It seems many of them think she should have never requested him to quieten down and that act alone somehow forced Martins actions.
Given I was reading the lady in question is upset with the way the AFL have been handling the investigation and that in her opinion they are trying to get her to water down her comments I suspect we won't see much of a penalty coming Martin's way.

I think there is a fair chance that the penalty will now be a couple of NAB cup games and a fine.

Does the fact the woman is a channel 7 employee, and she went directly to the club to seek some sort of penalty, change the story?
Personally I cannot stand Dustin Martin, but someone has the right the innocent until proven guilty. And I don't trust reporters, or Richmond, or the AFL for that matter.

[Topdog]

Does the fact the woman is a channel 7 employee, and she went directly to the club to seek some sort of penalty, change the story?
Personally I cannot stand Dustin Martin, but someone has the right the innocent until proven guilty. And I don't trust reporters, or Richmond, or the AFL for that matter.

How does it change the story? Going to a persons place of employment is becoming quite common.

Should be sacked but with the money involved that ain't happen, hopefully 12 month suspension

[Twodogs]

I read somewhere that the person has withdrawn their allegation, is that right?

[bornadog]

It's time for the AFL to walk the talk, says White Ribbon (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-time-for-the-afl-to-walk-the-talk-says-white-ribbon-20151212-glm25a.html)

AFL players charged with violence against women should be stood down from playing or training until the matter is resolved, White Ribbon Australia says.
Chief executive Libby Davies made it clear she could not comment on individual players or cases, but speaking in general terms she said the AFL still had a way to go to demonstrate consistency on these matters, regardless of the quality of the player.


story continues here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/its-time-for-the-afl-to-walk-the-talk-says-white-ribbon-20151212-glm25a.html)

[GVGjr]

Does the fact the woman is a channel 7 employee, and she went directly to the club to seek some sort of penalty, change the story?
Personally I cannot stand Dustin Martin, but someone has the right the innocent until proven guilty. And I don't trust reporters, or Richmond, or the AFL for that matter.


If he has apologised for his actions I don't think there is any doubt to her story. I've also seen some grainey snapchat footage and a mate was trying to pull him back.

[GVGjr]

I read somewhere that the person has withdrawn their allegation, is that right?

News to me

[Twodogs]

News to me

I haven't heard anymore about it and there's nothing on any of the news services. I must have heard wrong.

[Ghost Dog]

If he has apologised for his actions I don't think there is any doubt to her story. I've also seen some grainey snapchat footage and a mate was trying to pull him back.

Players have the right to due process, like everyone else. Many had hung Majak Daw out to dry before he was given his day in court. Innocent until proven guilty was the way. Without a doubt Dustin Martin is villan most likely. One would hope he would have the courage to self-ban himself, if true. Put his hand up, 'yes I did the wrong thing', have a break. Hoping too much I guess. A gesture of a donation towards Anti-violence campaign might be a smart move.

Ugly player, my vote for biggest 'tool' persona in AFL, personally speaking. However, nobody else is banned from going to work while they are under investigation. Why does White Ribbon think AFL players should be otherwise?

[GVGjr]

Players have the right to due process, like everyone else. Many had hung Majak Daw out to dry before he was given his day in court. Innocent until proven guilty was the way. Without a doubt Dustin Martin is villan most likely. One would hope he would have the courage to self-ban himself, if true. Put his hand up, 'yes I did the wrong thing', have a break. Hoping too much I guess. A gesture of a donation towards Anti-violence campaign might be a smart move.

Ugly player, my vote for biggest 'tool' persona in AFL, personally speaking. However, nobody else is banned from going to work while they are under investigation. Why does White Ribbon think AFL players should be otherwise?

As an example Daw claimed he was innocent. Martin however has apologised so therefore in my opinion his guilt has been established.
Had he come out and said I never made that threatening gesture then yes he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

[Ghost Dog]

As an example Daw claimed he was innocent. Martin however has apologised so therefore in my opinion his guilt has been established.
Had he come out and said I never made that threatening gesture then yes he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe, but exactly how serious was the threat, which relates to the punishment? It's really up to a thorough investigation to determine by an independent party. By going to the club, how is it supposed to be independent? can't imagine a situation where if someone threatened to kill me, I would go to their employer.

[GVGjr]

Maybe, but exactly how serious was the threat, which relates to the punishment? It's really up to a thorough investigation to determine by an independent party. By going to the club, how is it supposed to be independent? can't imagine a situation where if someone threatened to kill me, I would go to their employer.
He had a mate trying to pull him back from the confrontation. At the very least his mate saw it as serious.

I get the point you are making but the evidence is overwhelming at this stage. Had Martin chosen to challenge even part of her of her claims I'd take a more wait and see approach. Hopefully the police are involved now.

[Ghost Dog]

He had a mate trying to pull him back from the confrontation. At the very least his mate saw it as serious.

I get the point you are making but the evidence is overwhelming at this stage. Had Martin chosen to challenge even part of her of her claims I'd take a more wait and see approach. Hopefully the police are involved now.

Fair enough - I see your point too, but prefer to leave it to the professionals. Not seen any video yet either. That guy is just begging for a big slice of humble pie. stoopid. I just hate it when AFL footballers get treated differently from ordinary people. Why should they?

[G-Mo77]

Fair enough - I see your point too, but prefer to leave it to the professionals. Not seen any video yet either. That guy is just begging for a big slice of humble pie. stoopid. I just hate it when AFL footballers get treated differently from ordinary people. Why should they?

Had this discussion with my 2 brothers who know Dustin quite well and played the poor victim card like this. The fact he's an AFL footballer has kept him out if big trouble on more than one occasion. He's no victim here, the girl he threatened is. Hes just another idiot who thinks they're above the law because they play AFL football. It's time the AFL stepped up and made some tough decisions to change the poor culture which us hidden away under lock and key.

[F'scary]

And there is the Stereosonic factor.

[jeemak]

And there is the Stereosonic factor.

I haven't been to one for very very good reasons. Way too many heroes.

[Remi Moses]

I actually thought it was the stereophonics initially
Me silly.

[jeemak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9IpdZrkH6E


Once you've seen it it's pretty hard to get it wrong. Roided up wankers in their element.

[Ghost Dog]

Had this discussion with my 2 brothers who know Dustin quite well and played the poor victim card like this. The fact he's an AFL footballer has kept him out if big trouble on more than one occasion. He's no victim here, the girl he threatened is. Hes just another idiot who thinks they're above the law because they play AFL football. It's time the AFL stepped up and made some tough decisions to change the poor culture which us hidden away under lock and key.

Saying that, things are a lot better than the 80's or 90's. But no rest on that point. Must improve. Recent report on sexual harassment in the force was awful.

[Scraggers]

The Dustin Martin conversation has gone very quiet ... Richmond said sanctions by end of week (last week) and AFL and Vic Police said they're looking in to it.

I'm Talia-ing you ... Me thinks another cover-up is brewing !!

We need someone with better computer skills than mine to mock-up an AFL Rug Doctors meme. We'll sweep anything under the rug !!

[bornadog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9IpdZrkH6E


Once you've seen it it's pretty hard to get it wrong. Roided up wankers in their element.


You want to be one of those guys don't you. :D

[LostDoggy]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chop-or-stick-the-dustin-martin-mess-20151212-glm4cn.html

Article particularly addresses AFL integrity unit and their propensity to balls things up. Good final paragraph.

[Go_Dogs]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/chop-or-stick-the-dustin-martin-mess-20151212-glm4cn.html

Article particularly addresses AFL integrity unit and their propensity to balls things up. Good final paragraph.

Not a bad article, but still falls a little short of the mark for me.

Regardless of the final determination by the police, and perhaps subsequently, the judiciary, this matter has involved incredibly serious allegations which relate to a very important, nation-wide issue and one that the AFL has declared a very public, very firm stance on.

Due to the above, I am left concerned by the laissez faire approach that Richmond, and the AFL, have seemingly taken. The allegations themselves warranted a bigger, firmer response. Not anything particularly in relation to Martin, but that the allegations themselves demanded a process be followed, a thorough investigation, and that after that, an outcome would follow. The police intervention has saved face for a lot of earlier commentators and those inside the RFC, and AFL who made public statements, or alternatively, did not make statements or make the statements which were warranted in the circumstances. Succinctly put, they made rash, brand focus statements with no care for their key stakeholders and the broader football community (not to mention, society).

For mine, the allegations against Martin (whilst they remain of significance) are not the entire story. The lack of meaningful, considered response speaks the loudest. If you are serious about an issue, let your actions speak. AFL, Integrity Unit, RFC, I do not care....the buck stops with you and you have failed to adhere to the standards you promote and have promised to deliver on.

I hope someone takes them to town, and that the someone is not a (sports) journalist.

[jeemak]

Mate, I get where you're coming from, but I think you make a mistake in suggesting they didn't act with care for their key stakeholders.

Basically the AFL doesn't view anything other than its brand, its media partners or sponsors as key stakeholders.

It's a quintessential example of how a business becomes too corporate oriented, and completely disengaged from the basis of its revenue source. Yes, the gambling, TV and media partners line the pockets, but someone needs to line the pockets of those partners. The AFL is assigning the responsibility of managing the base line out to its corporate partners, and it's a very high risk strategy, as the AFL is becoming a less and less relevant stakeholder in the process.

There's a good reason why the AFL thinks that cheaper pies make for a better footy experience for garden variety AFL fans. Practially, they can't leverage anything else. The TV networks tell them how they need to present the game, the gambling companies tell them how they need to present their advertising at the games. So at the end of the day, Joe Average is stuck eating a shit (but cheap - by Tokyo standards), watered down excuse of a pie with terrible TV coverage on silent at games, because gambling companies need to advertise at them.

All the while, if the commentary was turned up, Average Joe would hear stories of Dusty's redemption from being a perpetrator of male oriented violence to footy star, and Cameron Ling telling Bruce it's awesome that he sexualises indigenous players.

The code is genuinely out of control, confused, and ultimately ridiculous. If it wasn't for the Bulldogs and the emotional attachment I feel for them, I'd be out of it.

[Topdog]

Ugly player, my vote for biggest 'tool' persona in AFL, personally speaking. However, nobody else is banned from going to work while they are under investigation. Why does White Ribbon think AFL players should be otherwise?

Im really not sure where you get all this talk from. Plenty are banned from working while under investigation for serious matters.

[Remi Moses]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9IpdZrkH6E


Once you've seen it it's pretty hard to get it wrong. Roided up wankers in their element.
That certainly isn't a stereophonics gig

[Bulldog4life]

That certainly isn't a stereophonics gig

My daughter told me the dance they are doing is called gabba or gabber. I had never heard of it before.

[jeemak]

Gabber is a hardstyle EDM.

They're just being Muzza's. Muzza's started becoming prevalent in what would be called the more mainstream festivals circa 2003. Back then it was all about big groups of mainly men from various particular regions on the planet and occasionally their women folk congregating in big groups posing. It was mainly harmless until cocaine became more prevalent, then they started to take more steroids and more cocaine, so on and so forth and their behaviour became more aggressive.

Basically they'd either dance like male strippers, or in any way to make their muscles look big. Now from the video footage I've seen (as I don't go to those festivals any more) they try and dance like they do in the more trendier partst, but do it really really badly.

It should be noted that being a Muzza isn't really about where you are from, or what nationality you are. It's more of a philosophical thing these days. And, that's really important as it's where the likes of Dusty fit in.

Here's an excellent example of the angry, stripper dancing Muzza.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvmSCGHWfus

[Twodogs]

They look like cops to me. Especially the two at the back. I'm not saying they're on duty or anything but my spidey sense is tingling.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Dustin Martin chopstick investigation dropped

Chloe Booker
Published: December 22, 2015 - 6:34PM

Victoria Police has dropped its investigation into Richmond's Dustin Martin threatening of a woman with a chopstick.

A spokeswoman said police would not take any action after the woman decided not to make a statement.

A Victoria Police statement said: "Detectives from Stonnington Criminal Investigation Unit have conducted an extensive investigation after reports a woman was threatened by a man at a Chapel Street restaurant in Windsor on 5 December.

"After reviewing CCTV footage and speaking to all parties involved, including numerous independent witnesses at the restaurant on the night, investigators determined that no criminal offence took place.

"Police take all reports of violence towards women seriously and investigate all complaints thoroughly."

This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dustin-martin-chopstick-investigation-dropped-20151222-gltn9k.html

[LostDoggy]

Unusually strong wording.

Typically you'd expect a statement such as insufficient evidence etc, but police have outright stated that in their determination "no criminal offence took place" (rather than; a criminal offence may have occurred, but we can't accumulate enough evidence to proceed).

[LostDoggy]

So which one is it?
The Police have dropped it's investigation because the woman didn't want to make a statement to police or
The investigators determind that no crimanal offence had taken place? :confused:

Almost gives a green light to any man to threaten and abuse any woman with physical violence.

What sort of an appalling society are we trying to promote? :mad:

Disgraceful.

[bulldogtragic]

I thought being a shithead meant no presents from Santa, but DM, Richmond & AFL just scored a straight sweep under the rug present. Interesting why she didn't proceed, I can guess she realised she would the offender and him the victim, and/or if she felt inferred subtle pressure from underworld/bikie sorts.

Without a statement (and without a victim therefore) and lack of clear footage, simply, the police cannot conclude that a criminal offence took place at the conclusion of their investigation.

[bornadog]

Either she was lying about the whole thing, or she has been paid off or pressured not to make a complaint.

Can't be any other reason. In my opinion surely she wouldn't just change her mind.

[LostDoggy]

The police statement says that they have taken statements all concerned parties as well as a number of witnesses.

[LostDoggy]

The police statement says that they have taken statements all concerned parties as well as a number of witnesses.

Richmond members and powerbrokers.

[Maddog37]

Either she was lying about the whole thing, or she has been paid off or pressured not to make a complaint.

Can't be any other reason. In my opinion surely she wouldn't just change her mind.

Perhaps she didn't want her name to be in the public forum?

[bornadog]

Perhaps she didn't want her name to be in the public forum?

Then why did she come out in the first place with the complaint.

Me thinks a cover up has brewed.

[jeemak]

Then why did she come out in the first place with the complaint.

Me thinks a cover up has brewed.

CH7 executives pushed her towards notifying the club and the AFL if some reports are to be believed.

This has all the hallmarks of a commercial outcome whereby the issue has been taken from the hands of the AFL/Club in the first instance, and then handed back to them so they can hide behind the findings of Vic Police.

Once again, the grieving party is not receiving justice because there's too much at stake commercially. The AFL after the Carlisle incident is looking for the most convenient and controversy free outcome to assist in getting through the summer period unscathed.

[Ghost Dog]

CH7 executives pushed her towards notifying the club and the AFL if some reports are to be believed.

This has all the hallmarks of a commercial outcome whereby the issue has been taken from the hands of the AFL/Club in the first instance, and then handed back to them so they can hide behind the findings of Vic Police.

Once again, the grieving party is not receiving justice because there's too much at stake commercially. The AFL after the Carlisle incident is looking for the most convenient and controversy free outcome to assist in getting through the summer period unscathed.

Which reports? Source?

[Twodogs]

Which reports? Source?


Herald-Sun mentioned the day after it was first reported along with speculation about how big a role 7 were having in driving the story.

[GVGjr]

Herald-Sun mentioned the day after it was first reported along with speculation about how big a role 7 were having in driving the story.

I've read about that speculation but the footage that MMM had on their website was convincing that he was quite threatening to her and he had a mate trying to ease him away from the confrontation. If it's been overstated as many seem to think what did he actually apologise to her for?

[Ghost Dog]

Herald-Sun mentioned the day after it was first reported along with speculation about how big a role 7 were having in driving the story.

I mean the network pressuring the lady to go to the club. Has that been reported anywhere? or as you say, speculation.
If they did, it was the wrong thing to do, but I can also understand her not wanting to be in the media.

[jeemak]

It's reported here:

It was Martin's connections that reportedly saw the Channel Seven producer initially back away from telling her story in public. That she feared for her safety. The club's view was she had accepted Martin's apology and spoke publicly only after some pressure from network bosses.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/victims-account-will-shape-richmond-tigers-star-dustin-martins-punishment-20151208-glipay.html#ixzz3vroVPOlp

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for that. Wonder who she feared more - the gangland connections or the Tigers supporters.
This will return to haunt Martin at some stage and the Richmond footy club. Nobody likes someone who escapes justice, especially when the AFL is hammering on about domestic V.

[F'scary]

What's Dustin doing tonight?

[Remi Moses]

What's Dustin doing tonight?

Don't fret it will all be swept under that massive AFL carpet .

[jeemak]

On Footy Classified last night (during which Wilson was reasonably scathing of the AFL) it was noted Martin is looking unlikely to miss any games.

The story now is there's doubts around the original account provided by the victim, and Martin's actions.

[Greystache]

On Footy Classified last night (during which Wilson was reasonably scathing of the AFL) it was noted Martin is looking unlikely to miss any games.

The story now is there's doubts around the original account provided by the victim, and Martin's actions.

We'll probably never get the true story but it's probably a mix of the two versions from the relevant parties. The AFL will cover up anything and everything in its never ending pursuit of brand protection. Likewise when a victim goes straight to the media rather than the police to make a complaint you know it's about publicity rather than justice.

Martin will end up with a slap on the wrist, the AFL will brush over it, and the permanently outraged have had an opportunity to be outraged. Is that a win all round?

[jeemak]

Did she go to the club/AFL or the media first?

[Greystache]

Did she go to the club/AFL or the media first?

Channel 7, then the Herald-Sun, refused to speak to the police, and Richmond approached her was the way it was reported.

Who knows for sure.

[bornadog]

Channel 7, then the Herald-Sun, refused to speak to the police, and Richmond approached her was the way it was reported.

Who knows for sure.

Doesn't she work for Ch7?

EDIT

Yes she does.

He apologised so must have done what was alleged.

see here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/richmond-star-dustin-martin-pologises-for-drunken-restaurant-incident-20151207-glhfdp.html)

[LostDoggy]

Doesn't she work for Ch7?

She was identified in the media as a Channel 7 employee.

[Greystache]

Doesn't she work for Ch7?

EDIT

Yes she does.

He apologised so must have done what was alleged.

see here (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/richmond-star-dustin-martin-pologises-for-drunken-restaurant-incident-20151207-glhfdp.html)

He apologised, it doesn't say for what, and it certainly doesn't say he apologised for exactly what was claimed.

[bornadog]

He apologised, it doesn't say for what, and it certainly doesn't say he apologised for exactly what was claimed.

True, but the way I see it, in order to apologise, you have to have done something wrong. How bad that was we don't know.

[LostDoggy]

Martin claimed extreme intoxication and not remembering any details of the evening. He apologised for allowing himself to get into this state in public and for any offence he caused to anyone. That was the extent of his apology.

[Greystache]

True, but the way I see it, in order to apologise, you have to have done something wrong. How bad that was we don't know.

That he was drunk, obnoxious, and got into an argument is beyond doubt, for that he'd be forced to apologise regardless. How much more there was than that seems to be questionable. Someone can make any claim they like to the media without fear of consequence for the most part, they can't however do that with the police. When someone goes to the media about an incident, but won't speak to the police, then alarm bells start ringing for me.

That being said, Martin is a complete dickhead, so who knows what really happened.

[jeemak]

People also have an aversion to going to the police because quite often there is either little follow through or consequence.

Like you, I am suspicious of the circumstances when the media is selected as the outlet (providing alternatives to the media are not viable, e.g. whistle blowing cases) for grievances to be aired. I'm even more suspicious when network connections heavily influence the decision to do so.

[bornadog]

and now this:


Richmond has issued Dustin Martin with a suspended $5000 fine for breaching the player code of conduct

[Twodogs]

Wow. A 5k "fine" that he doesn't actually have to pay and he had to ring somebody and nearly say sorry.

I'm sure he has learned his lesson.

Let's buy him a present!

[Ghost Dog]

and now this:

5000, oh that's a coincidence. Round about the amount of loose change he has lying around the back seat of his JEEP.

[Twodogs]

That'd be his sponsored vehicle, a JEEP!

[bornadog]

Martin's Dad died over the weekend. Didn't realise he was only 54. Apparently no suspicious circumstances.

Will be tough for Dusty, as he looked up to his Dad,

[Eastdog]

Martin's Dad died over the weekend. Didn't realise he was only 54. Apparently no suspicious circumstances.

Will be tough for Dusty, as he looked up to his Dad,

Sad news. 54 is a couple of years younger than my parents age. My condolences are with Dusty and the Martin family.

[G-Mo77]

I played footy with his Dad way back when I was a young teenager just coming into the open age league. I'll always remember him for really looking after us, back then the older oppositions players would try and ruffle your feathers with whacks behind play or shirt fronts etc. I always felt safer with him playing on my team and was grateful for him helping me out on the field. RIP Kiwi.

[bornadog]

Gee, surprise surprise, someone trying to upset Richmond on the eve of finals.

[Axe Man]

Gee, surprise surprise, someone trying to upset Richmond on the eve of finals.

A Brisbane supporter sitting on that footage for a few years?

At least the Bailey Smith vision came out mid season and not now.

[bornadog]

A Brisbane supporter sitting on that footage for a few years?

At least the Bailey Smith vision came out mid season and not now.

Pretty pathetic really sitting on that for 6 years or so and then releasing on finals day.

[Mofra]

Pretty pathetic really sitting on that for 6 years or so and then releasing on finals day.
Tom Morris finds this suspicious too

[Topdog]

The footy really was nothing too.