2016 NAB Challenge Discussion

[Eastdog]

Footy is back and it all starts tomorrow.

I'll put up the thread for our first NAB challenge match next week.

Here is the 2016 NAB challenge fixture

http://m.afl.com.au/fixture/nab-challenge

[Greystache]

Carlton front and centre to kick off the preseaon as well, what is wrong with the AFL? No one wants to see this rabble of a club, why are they constantly propped up by that clown Lethlean. Even in the preseason competition they should be hidden from view on Sunday twilight.

[bornadog]

Practise matches, the real stuff is 5 weeks away.

[merantau]

I am more than interested to see how we perform. Practice games or not I expect us to show some real endeavour and make a statement - Beware of the Dog!

[LostDoggy]

Yeah of course they are just practice matches, but after 5 months of nothing, any opportunity to see the 1st and 2nd year guys up against AFL competition is warmly welcomed. Also an opportunity to get an idea of any new plans Bevo and the coaching staff may have. Can't wait.

I'm a 3.5 hour drive from Canberra and currently trying to juggle my work schedule so that I can head down to watch the boys live.

[Twodogs]

It was the NAB challenge game against Collingwood last year when we first unveiled the men of mayhem on the footy world. I'm looking forward so much to seeing what we are going to hit it with this time around.

[Twodogs]

Carlton front and centre to kick off the preseaon as well, what is wrong with the AFL? No one wants to see this rabble of a club, why are they constantly propped up by that clown Lethlean. Even in the preseason competition they should be hidden from view on Sunday twilight.


Unbelievable. The AFL is like an addict who just can't get over it. "We'll lead the season off with them just one more time. It's sure to work this year"

[ratsmac]

I always look forward to the practice matches because you can watch your team with no real pressure of winning or losing. You also get to see the new draft kids for the first time and the new recruits in the team colours. It's footy foreplay if you like.

[westdog54]

Unbelievable. The AFL is like an addict who just can't get over it. "We'll lead the season off with them just one more time. It's sure to work this year"

It's pretty much how Field Marshall Haig ran the Western Front.

[Greystache]

Practise matches, the real stuff is 5 weeks away.

It's the first semi-competitive football match in 5 months, it's broadcast in prime time, and many neutral fans will want to tune in to watch. The fact it has to be Carlton just shows what a joke Lethlean is.

[bornadog]

It's the first semi-competitive football match in 5 months, it's broadcast in prime time, and many neutral fans will want to tune in to watch. The fact it has to be Carlton just shows what a joke Lethlean is.

I don't disagree. I also don't know how much our club and other smaller clubs protest to the AFL

[bornadog]

Didn't watch the H v C match but flipped over and Brereton mentioned Carlton have 17 players from other clubs. They just can't be bothered developing young talent and building for the future, always after instant success.

[Ghost Dog]

Liam Jones and Jason Tutt. Our ex's on parade.

[soupman]

Tonight's game was the closest thing to a televised training run I've seen. Such low quality and almost comical at times watching players avoid putting their bodies on the line.

[bornadog]

Liam Jones and Jason Tutt. Our ex's on parade.

Liam Jones, one disposal.

[Bulldog Joe]

Liam Jones, one disposal.

but he is training well.

[Axe Man]

Liam Jones, one disposal.

Mick Malthouse has claimed it was the most explosive disposal he has ever seen!

[Murphy'sLore]

It was a free kick I think.

[bornadog]

It was a free kick I think.

Gets better and better. :D

[Greystache]

Liam Jones, one disposal.

I was surprised Essendon didn't try to lure him out of retirement as a top up player. It turns out he's actually still playing :eek:

[LostDoggy]

Didn't see the game. Seems a bit of a non-event.

The AFL could've programmed any possible combination for the pre-season opener and would presumably look for a game to inject a bit of excitement and impetus.

They went for last year's Premiers vs last year's wooden spooners at the Premiers favourite venue.

WTF?

[soupman]

Didn't see the game. Seems a bit of a non-event.

The AFL could've programmed any possible combination for the pre-season opener and would presumably look for a game to inject a bit of excitement and impetus.

They went for last year's Premiers vs last year's wooden spooners at the Premiers favourite venue.

WTF?

I found that funny as well.

There was some complaining on here about Carlton being favoured again with a season opener as such but that's really a non-issue when you consider the bigger picture of the AFL scheduling the best and worst teams as the opener.

BTW did anyone watch either the 2 hours of pre-game coverage or one hour of post game coverage and if so can you tell me what the hell they talked about because I have no idea how you fill that time with the most meaningless training run in history as the meat in the sandwich.

[Remi Moses]

Well the bits I saw
Jones dropped a mark ( some things never change )
Tutt kicked the ball on the full ;)

[Twodogs]

Poor Liam.

Geez his manager did brilliant work there.

[Twodogs]

Liam Jones, one disposal.

Yet they talked about him for ten minutes during the commentary on SEN last night.

[bulldogtragic]

Liam Jones, one disposal.

He's getting $350,000 to $400,000 a season allegedly. At this rate on last year's form and yesterday, each of his touches will be worth about $14,000 each this year at AFL level. To compare, last year alone Carlton payed $5,400 per disposal to Liam in the AFL. To compare Gary Ablett Jnr only gets about $2,800 per disposal, Buddy Franklin under $2,000. Liam must be a pretty special player in the eyes of the Carlton 'brains trust'.

Feel free to share this fun fact with Carlton folk.

[Bulldog Joe]

I found that funny as well.

There was some complaining on here about Carlton being favoured again with a season opener as such but that's really a non-issue when you consider the bigger picture of the AFL scheduling the best and worst teams as the opener.

BTW did anyone watch either the 2 hours of pre-game coverage or one hour of post game coverage and if so can you tell me what the hell they talked about because I have no idea how you fill that time with the most meaningless training run in history as the meat in the sandwich.

I watched part of the telecast and was subjected to the most inane discussion by the commentary team. It seemed that the were just in a bar somewhere chatting amongst themselves with the footy on in the background. They appeared to have no interest in the game itself and just occasionally looked at some random stats to enable them to weave a player from the game into the conversation.

Hope it is not a sign of what we will get for the season ahead.

[Remi Moses]

It was just so self indulgent it wasn't funny .
The football commentary needs a complete overhaul

[azabob]

Was the game FOXTEL or seven?

[chef]

Foxtel.

[Twodogs]

I think all the NAB challenge games are on Foxtel aren't they?

[LostDoggy]

Ballantyne hammy and Sandilands will be looked at for a shoulder to Griffiths jaw, wouldn't surprise me if he got a week.

Good result for Round 1!

[Twodogs]

Planets are aligning,

[bulldogtragic]

Ballantyne hammy and Sandilands will be looked at for a shoulder to Griffiths jaw, wouldn't surprise me if he got a week.

Good result for Round 1!

Great start. Pavlich injured in two weeks, Fyffe suspended (finally) and their best defender out. Time to try voodoo dolls.

[LostDoggy]

Great start. Pavlich injured in two weeks, Fyffe suspended (finally) and their best defender out. Time to try voodoo dolls.

Bennell has been struggling to overcome calf niggles in training as well apparently. R1 looks like a great time to get them.

[lemmon]

Apparently North were pretty impressive this arvo against an average St Kilda

[comrade]

Anyone see how the traitor went?

[azabob]

Anyone see how the traitor went?

Traitor?

[Twodogs]

Anyone see how the traitor went?


Plough said at halftime Higgins had been BOG but that's all I heard, I don't even know what position he was playing in. A

[Greystache]

Anyone see how the traitor went?

You'll have to be more specific- Talia, Gryphin, Higgins?

[azabob]

Higgins isnt a trader. It was a win win for all.

[GVGjr]

You'll have to be more specific- Talia, Gryphin, Higgins?

He's asking about Talia

[Hotdog60]

I didn't see all of the game but Talia was not noticeable.

[Twodogs]

I didn't see all of the game but Talia was not noticeable.

I heard his name on the radio commentary in the car because my son started to boo. "What's that about" "they mentioned Talia on the radio"

[chef]

I heard his name on the radio commentary in the car because my son started to boo. "What's that about" "they mentioned Talia on the radio"

I find myself booing at the betting ads now that Judas Brown is doing them.

[The Adelaide Connection]

It's almost got to the point where every premiership needs an asterix next to it denoting what variation of rules it was won under.
This years will be *90 rotations, no sub, extra jumpy sling rule.

No idea how this got posted here, was meant for another thread. Sorry. As you were.

[LostDoggy]

I'm surprised they are persisting with some of the NAB challenge only rules. Does the supergoal serve any purpose?

[Twodogs]

I'm surprised they are persisting with some of the NAB challenge only rules. Does the supergoal serve any purpose?

I'm surprised it didn't somehow cost us a preseason premiership.

[Hotdog60]

I'm surprised they are persisting with some of the NAB challenge only rules. Does the supergoal serve any purpose?
It does the junior clubs get some footy's sent to them.

[LostDoggy]

Notice Darcy Macpherson got a game first up as a Rookie. Must be impressing up there, hope he goes well - just not too well.

[Bulldog4life]

Notice Darcy Macpherson got a game first up as a Rookie. Must be impressing up there, hope he goes well - just not too well.

Impressed with Darcy. Think he'll be a good player.

[LostDoggy]

Impressed with Darcy. Think he'll be a good player.

Most impressive debut (pre-season admittedly). Laid 10 tackles as a high pressure small forward and scored more AFL Dream Team points than anyone on his team.

[bulldogtragic]

Most impressive debut (pre-season admittedly). Laid 10 tackles and as a high pressure small forward and scored more AFL Dream Team points than anyone on his team.

Good start for Darcy then.

[Twodogs]

Suprised he was drafted by Scott Clayton even just on a rookie list. He's not exactly a Clayton prototype given that he can actually play the game. Maybe they let somebody else select the rookies?

[Remi Moses]

Has the fox commentary improved from that dross they served up Thursday night .
Not sure what was worse Tutt and Jones or the commentary ;)

[Remi Moses]

Plough said at halftime Higgins had been BOG but that's all I heard, I don't even know what position he was playing in. A

I heard Wallace talking about how could we let Shaun get out, but for me he hasn't performed in the really high pressure games for Norf .
Talking Hawthorn,West Coast prelim , he didn't fire a shot

[bornadog]

I heard Wallace talking about how could we let Shaun get out, but for me he hasn't performed in the really high pressure games for Norf .
Talking Hawthorn,West Coast prelim , he didn't fire a shot

Higgins has always played well in finals. Last year in the finals, he had 28 disposals v Swans and 17 against WCoast plus two goals.

I thought he had a great year and showed he is a classy player.

[Mantis]

Suprised he was drafted by Scott Clayton even just on a rookie list. He's not exactly a Clayton prototype given that he can actually play the game. Maybe they let somebody else select the rookies?

Does Scott Clayton even make the call?

I thought he had a J-Mac (list manager) type role with GC??

[Twodogs]

Does Scott Clayton even make the call?

I thought he had a J-Mac (list manager) type role with GC??

I thought he was the recruiting manager but now that I think about it was an assumption on my part. You're probably right.

[Maddog37]

Higgins has always played well in finals. Last year in the finals, he had 28 disposals v Swans and 17 against WCoast plus two goals.

I thought he had a great year and showed he is a classy player.

He has always been classy but still will not chase and a hard tackle from him is the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad he is gone more so than any player we have recently lost/traded.

[Remi Moses]

Higgins has always played well in finals. Last year in the finals, he had 28 disposals v Swans and 17 against WCoast plus two goals.

I thought he had a great year and showed he is a classy player.

I'll give you the Sydney game, but he wasn't great in that hawthorn game when the whips were cracking .

[bornadog]

I'll give you the Sydney game, but he wasn't great in that hawthorn game when the whips were cracking .

I don't think any player from North was, they got smashed.

[Bulldog4life]

Sandilands can accept one match ban just been announced.

[LostDoggy]

Sandilands can accept one match ban just been announced.

Can he serve that in NAB, or would that put him out of R1?

[The Underdog]

He has always been classy but still will not chase and a hard tackle from him is the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad he is gone more so than any player we have recently lost/traded.

To be fair, I thought his defensive work rate for North last year was tenfold better than any season with us. Maybe it was better fitness and a full pre-season but his effort was much better.

[Bulldog4life]

Can he serve that in NAB, or would that put him out of R1?

Round 1

[Ozza]

Would be a huge result for us to play Freo without Sandilands. Hope the cop the 1 week on the chin!

[LostDoggy]

Round 1

Oooh. That's good. Tribunal tends to be harsh in pre-season so they may choose to take that on the chin.

[Cyberdoggie]

Oooh. That's good. Tribunal tends to be harsh in pre-season so they may choose to take that on the chin.

Campbell or Minson will be licking their lips now. Wouldn't of liked to come up against the giant first game of the year.

[Maddog37]

To be fair, I thought his defensive work rate for North last year was tenfold better than any season with us. Maybe it was better fitness and a full pre-season but his effort was much better.

Honeymoon period. The change certainly helped him but leopards and spots and all that IMHO.

[Axe Man]

Sandilands can accept one match ban just been announced.

Great news as our ideal match up for Sandi in Brett Goodes is no longer on the list.

[LostDoggy]

Great news as our ideal match up for Sandi in Brett Goodes is no longer on the list.

Another of our main options in 2015, Marcus Bontempelli, is probably quite relieved also :)

[GVGjr]

Can he serve that in NAB, or would that put him out of R1?

Should be round 1

[Bulldog4life]

Should be round 1

Definitely is round 1 GVG. He might appeal of course and go to the tribunal.

[Testekill]

I can easily see him getting off, it was a really soft report.

[Throughandthrough]

I haven't seen or read or heard about the Sandi report until just now, but I think 1 week is fair.

[Greystache]

I can easily see him getting off, it was a really soft report.

Agree. As much as I'd like him to miss round 1, I said at the time it would be a joke if he was suspended.

[LostDoggy]

As much as it's harsh, I'll be surprised if AS gets off.

He leaves his man in the ruck contest, sizes up the third man up, moves off his line, bumps him to the head when Griffiths doesn't have the ball and concusses him. The big rule last year was if you choose to bump and make solid contact to the head, you wear the consequences.

Given this is the first test of the tribunals commitment to protecting the head this year, I can see them wanting to make a statement and set a precedent. I don't see Sandilands getting off.

[jeemak]

I haven't seen or read or heard about the Sandi report until just now, but I think 1 week is fair.

Your assessment is off the mark, but only just. I think a more progressive pre-season infringement assessment policy should be introduced whereby the first and last rounds of the season should automatically come into play for non-Bulldogs players, with the penalty being doubled.

With that in mind, and without having seen the incident, I think Sandilands should also be rubbed out for the final round of the home and away season.

It's only fair.

[Twodogs]

Your assessment is off the mark, but only just. I think a more progressive pre-season infringement assessment policy should be introduced whereby the first and last rounds of the season should automatically come into play for non-Bulldogs players, with the penalty being doubled.

With that in mind, and without having seen the incident, I think Sandilands should also be rubbed out for the final round of the home and away season.

It's only fair.

And any finals.

To be completely fair.

[Axe Man]

Good news!

FREMANTLE ruckman Aaron Sandilands has accepted a one-match ban for rough conduct, ruling him out of the Dockers' season opener against the Western Bulldogs.

Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-23/fremantles-aaron-sandilands-set-to-miss-one-match-after-bump-on-ben-griffiths)

[Remi Moses]

Massive out for them .

[LostDoggy]

good news!

Fremantle ruckman aaron sandilands has accepted a one-match ban for rough conduct, ruling him out of the dockers' season opener against the western bulldogs.

link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-23/fremantles-aaron-sandilands-set-to-miss-one-match-after-bump-on-ben-griffiths)

sweet!!!!!! ;)

[merantau]

"Sandilands out = significaaaaaannntttt" as Bruce would say.

[LostDoggy]

Saw a bit of the Melbourne/Port game on replay. Thought Melbourne looked good, they may be finally getting their act together.

Hope they put a good team out against us next week, they will be good competition. With a lot of kids playing, it will tell us something about our depth. It will be great to see the likes of Williams, Lynch and Adcock for the first time as well as Libba, Boyd and others we are so keen to get a look at for 2016.

[chef]

Pretty embarrassing shit for Carlton, even if its just a praccy match.

[bornadog]

Pretty embarrassing shit for Carlton, even if its just a praccy match.

Look at the Hawks, they had their inexperienced kids in. Next week we will rest all our older players and the new recruits and rookies will be playing and we may get smashed too. Doesn't really worry me one bit as long as there are no major injuries.

4 weeks to go and I am counting down the days.

[chef]

Look at the Hawks, they had their inexperienced kids in. Next week we will rest all our older players and the new recruits and rookies will be playing and we may get smashed too. Doesn't really worry me one bit as long as there are no major injuries.

4 weeks to go and I am counting down the days.

Both team were resting senior players (plus Essendon were missing another 12 through suspension). Was a pretty embarrassing effort against a team not expected to win a game. Loved it.

[Twodogs]

Both team were resting senior players (plus Essendon were missing another 12 through suspension). Was a pretty embarrassing effort against a team not expected to win a game. Loved it.

Me too. It's pretty embarrassing for Carlton no matter if it's a practice match or a real match. Getting beaten by Essendon A who have mostly been in preseason for nearly a month but were retired for 14 weeks before that.

But by 70 points?

[Ghost Dog]

"Sandilands out = significaaaaaannntttt" as Bruce would say.
Haha Not hard for sandi to dish out head high bumps....

[divvydan]

Saw a bit of the Melbourne/Port game on replay. Thought Melbourne looked good, they may be finally getting their act together.

Hope they put a good team out against us next week, they will be good competition. With a lot of kids playing, it will tell us something about our depth. It will be great to see the likes of Williams, Lynch and Adcock for the first time as well as Libba, Boyd and others we are so keen to get a look at for 2016.

They should. Melbourne stated prior to the NAB Cup starting that they were going to put out a strong team each week. I imagine within that, fringe players will all get some sort of chance as well but the solid core of best 22 who are fit should be playing all 3 games.

[GVGjr]

I'm really starting to despise a number of coaches and the administrators of the game.

I can't believe the AFL haven't come down on Hardwick for effectively chucking in the towel against Port.
Between that and the round 23 fiasco of teams with their finals position assured fielding substandard sides I'm wondering if clubs are also playing dead in other games like trips interstate. It's a nonsense.

Coaches should select good teams largely based on form and send them out with the view of winning every game they play.

The AFL place sanctions on players and anyone involved at the clubs for betting on games, taking illicit drugs, PED's or saying anything socially insensitive but just shrug their shoulders and endorse this sort of shenanigans around clubs putting teams on the ground with a view of intentionally providing a substandard or a contrived performance. The AFL has also had a couple of half hearted efforts with seeing to be tough on teams or coaches tanking games.

I know many fans find this as acceptable because of the perceived bigger picture considerations but I'm confident over time it will really erode the competition and the fans care factor. I can cop a loss in a game as part of the being a member of our club but I'm not sure I can easily accept us not trying to win games.

Interested in your thoughts?

[Hotdog60]

Agreed,
I can understand if say round 23 and someone is carrying a niggle that a week of will fix it. But the mind set should be to play the best available and try and win the game.

[Bulldog Joe]

Not sure it is really an issue in the NAB challenge. The teams are after all preparing for round 1 and everything is geared to that and trialling strategies.

More an issue in the season proper, but i do believe there are games were teams simply look to get through the game without much concern for the result.

[ratsmac]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-03-14/scans-reveal-fractured-cheekbone-for-young-lion

I hope they throw the book at Jeremy Cameron. I'm still upset that he got away with smashing JJ's shoulder to bits. I hate when players are rubbed out for the old hip and shoulder but it's for the protection of the head obviously. The rules about these types of bumps have been around for a number of years now so there is no excuse. The young Brisbane player now has a fractured cheekbone because of his negligence. He can be a very dirty player and he needs to pay this time.

6 weeks I say.

[bornadog]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2016-03-14/scans-reveal-fractured-cheekbone-for-young-lion

I hope they throw the book at Jeremy Cameron. I'm still upset that he got away with smashing JJ's shoulder to bits. I hate when players are rubbed out for the old hip and shoulder but it's for the protection of the head obviously. The rules about these types of bumps have been around for a number of years now so there is no excuse. The young Brisbane player now has a fractured cheekbone because of his negligence. He can be a very dirty player and he needs to pay this time.

6 weeks I say.

If the AFL are serious about wiping out head high contact he should get no less than 4 weeks for that.

What I didn't like about the JJ one was he ran full pelt at him and it was an unnecessary bump as he got the ball away. There is a hip and shoulder but yet again, there is also rough play.

[bornadog]

MRP

Nakia Cockatoo (2 games)
Dale Thomas (1 game)
Dayne Zorko (1 game)


And Jeremy Cameron sent straight to the tribunal.

[Go_Dogs]

If we reach a point where clubs stop flying a decent side over the Perth to play in round 6 because the result is essentially predetermined, then that becomes a bit of a problem, however any side that want to be competitive needs wins and percentage so I struggle to see sides who are around the mark deliberately picking a side which isn't going to be competitive when there is something on the line.

Say for example we reach the final round and can't finish anywhere but 4th and West Coast are on top and that can't change, we have a number of players who would benefit with a week off before flying to Perth - I'd be disappointed if we took over blokes like Boyd and Murph and had them break down with a soft tissue injury and potentially miss out on the entire finals series.

I get it potentially ruins that final H&A game we play, but I'd much rather see us field our best possible side, in its best possible condition for September.

[F'scary]

I'm really starting to despise a number of coaches and the administrators of the game.

I can't believe the AFL haven't come down on Hardwick for effectively chucking in the towel against Port.
Between that and the round 23 fiasco of teams with their finals position assured fielding substandard sides I'm wondering if clubs are also playing dead in other games like trips interstate. It's a nonsense.

Coaches should select good teams largely based on form and send them out with the view of winning every game they play.

The AFL place sanctions on players and anyone involved at the clubs for betting on games, taking illicit drugs, PED's or saying anything socially insensitive but just shrug their shoulders and endorse this sort of shenanigans around clubs putting teams on the ground with a view of intentionally providing a substandard or a contrived performance. The AFL has also had a couple of half hearted efforts with seeing to be tough on teams or coaches tanking games.

I know many fans find this as acceptable because of the perceived bigger picture considerations but I'm confident over time it will really erode the competition and the fans care factor. I can cop a loss in a game as part of the being a member of our club but I'm not sure I can easily accept us not trying to win games.

Interested in your thoughts?

Agree 100%. The AFL have been hopeless, absolutely hopeless with rules and regulations. It seems they are congenitally incapable of setting the rules without creating perverse incentives. Here are some ideas that have been put forward in recent years that I think would reinvigorate the competition.



Tanking: simple fix, adopt the NFL lottery method.
Interstate towel throw-ins: look at fixturing in conferences (not regionally based); progression to the next level (finals) only to the best performed.
Award a trophy and a decent $$$ prize for the minor premiers.
An alterative to the simple NFL lottery has been put forward that also solves the 18 teams 22 rounds problem. The solution is each team plays each other once (17 games home-and-away season). The ladder is then split 3 ways (1-6, 7-12, 13-18) and each group has a 5 game post season with different rewards. 13-18 play for the top 6 draft picks, 7-12 play for the last 2 final positions and then draft picks, 1-6 play for ladder position in the final (1-4 as we know have big advantages).


The last 2 dot points in particular I find very enticing.

[Happy Days]

Agree 100%. The AFL have been hopeless, absolutely hopeless with rules and regulations. It seems they are congenitally incapable of setting the rules without creating perverse incentives. Here are some ideas that have been put forward in recent years that I think would reinvigorate the competition.



Tanking: simple fix, adopt the NFL lottery method.
Interstate towel throw-ins: look at fixturing in conferences (not regionally based); progression to the next level (finals) only to the best performed.
Award a trophy and a decent $$$ prize for the minor premiers.
An alterative to the simple NFL lottery has been put forward that also solves the 18 teams 22 rounds problem. The solution is each team plays each other once (17 games home-and-away season). The ladder is then split 3 ways (1-6, 7-12, 13-18) and each group has a 5 game post season with different rewards. 13-18 play for the top 6 draft picks, 7-12 play for the last 2 final positions and then draft picks, 1-6 play for ladder position in the final (1-4 as we know have big advantages).


The last 2 dot points in particular I find very enticing.

The NFL doesn't have a lottery, the NBA does. The NBA has a worse tanking problem than we could ever dream of.

[F'scary]

The NFL doesn't have a lottery, the NBA does. The NBA has a worse tanking problem than we could ever dream of.

I stand corrected on the comp but, logically, how could a lottery, in itself, promote tanking unless there were some other rules in play as well?

[F'scary]

I stand corrected on the comp but, logically, how could a lottery, in itself, promote tanking unless there were some other rules in play as well?

Checked for myself, it is a heavily weighted lottery, which would promote tanking. I'm more for no weighting but partitioning of the table per outline in the last dot point I made above.

[Happy Days]

I stand corrected on the comp but, logically, how could a lottery, in itself, promote tanking unless there were some other rules in play as well?

Because it's still weighted to the worst sides; the worse your record, the more balls you get in the lottery. Having the worst record pretty much guarantees a top-3 selection in the draft, usually better than that.

The Philadelphia 76ers, a godless affront to world sport, are a perfect example of tanking's existence in a lottery system.

[KT31]

If the bottom eight all went into a lottery it would seem unnecessary to tank, it may also alleviate an issue with the teams who end up stagnant mid-table and are unable to get a crack at the top picks without selling the farm.

[soupman]

Could it go the other way though? By reducing the odds of the worst club getting the best pick from a guarantee to anything else you make the odds of the second worst club getting the best pick go from no chance to a chance, and this continues up the ladder.

So theoretically a team in 12th could decide finishing 13th or 14th would give them a much better chance of getting the best or second best pick while under the current system they'll only be one or two spots higher.

As long as there is a real benefit to finishing lower tanking is a possibility, especially when there is no reward for finishing higher.

[F'scary]

Could it go the other way though? By reducing the odds of the worst club getting the best pick from a guarantee to anything else you make the odds of the second worst club getting the best pick go from no chance to a chance, and this continues up the ladder.

So theoretically a team in 12th could decide finishing 13th or 14th would give them a much better chance of getting the best or second best pick while under the current system they'll only be one or two spots higher.

As long as there is a real benefit to finishing lower tanking is a possibility, especially when there is no reward for finishing higher.

Interesting observation. 7-12 would be fighting it out for the last 2 finals spots. If 12 felt they were no chance, even though the odds are 1/3, would they tank to get into the 13-18 band to get a higher draft pick, perhaps even the #1?

Probably deserves another thread - I wonder if there is one already on WOOF?

[F'scary]

Because it's still weighted to the worst sides; the worse your record, the more balls you get in the lottery. Having the worst record pretty much guarantees a top-3 selection in the draft, usually better than that.

The Philadelphia 76ers, a godless affront to world sport, are a perfect example of tanking's existence in a lottery system.

Which AFL Club should we dub "the 76ers"? It would have to be the Dees, wouldn't it?

[hujsh]

Interesting observation. 7-12 would be fighting it out for the last 2 finals spots. If 12 felt they were no chance, even though the odds are 1/3, would they tank to get into the 13-18 band to get a higher draft pick, perhaps even the #1?

Probably deserves another thread - I wonder if there is one already on WOOF?

I believe there has, as well as conferences and every other idea imaginable.

[F'scary]

I believe there has, as well as conferences and every other idea imaginable.

I'll do some searches, hujsh. I will leave it with that I was quite taken with the 17/5 season proposal when I first encountered it some months ago. Could be a way forward for the AFL.

[Maddog37]

Personally I say let them tank. It does more damage than good to the fabric of the club and hasn't really shown to overly benefit teams in the long run due to the number of players per team on the field.

Perhaps a monetary payment to each club based on percentage could be utilised as an incentive for teams in the bottom eight.

[Twodogs]

Personally I say let them tank. It does more damage than good to the fabric of the club and hasn't really shown to overly benefit teams in the long run due to the number of players per team on the field.

Perhaps a monetary payment to each club based on percentage could be utilised as an incentive for teams in the bottom eight.


Precisely. Let one club do it and face the approbation and disgust of their fans and the football community.

[GVGjr]

Because it's still weighted to the worst sides; the worse your record, the more balls you get in the lottery. Having the worst record pretty much guarantees a top-3 selection in the draft, usually better than that.

The Philadelphia 76ers, a godless affront to world sport, are a perfect example of tanking's existence in a lottery system.

A lottery system will not discourage tanking or even the perception of teams tanking games. The only thing it does it take away the certainty of if you finish last that you will get the first pick but you still might.

It's not a solution at all.

The solution is to fine a club that has been found to do it and remove future first round selections. I'd also consider suspending the coach and the President for 12 months. That's the only way you can drive ownership of clubs putting their best team on the ground every week.

As fans we should not accept any club putting in less than their best despite the rewards that might potentially be in front of them.

[F'scary]

A lottery system will not discourage tanking or even the perception of teams tanking games. The only thing it does it take away the certainty of if you finish last that you will get the first pick but you still might.

It's not a solution at all.

The solution is to fine a club that has been found to do it and remove future first round selections. I'd also consider suspending the coach and the President for 12 months. That's the only way you can drive ownership of clubs putting their best team on the ground every week.

As fans we should not accept any club putting in less than their best despite the rewards that might potentially be in front of them.

Agree, and that is another shortcoming with the AFL Commission, it frequently ducks making the hard decisions and in some cases, appears to give favourable treatment for pet projects.

The 17/5 season concept entails that teams have to fight to get rewards and there are just deserts. For teams 13-18, the number of home games could be allocated by ladder position in the fight to get pick #1. If you tank, you will end up with pick #6. I don't think under a well worked out system under this concept that teams will tank. The key will be to make the potential rewards of finishing as high as you can outweigh any incentive to tank, as we have seen but the AFL won't admit in the past.

[ledge]

Easy to eliminate tanking , who finished 9th gets first pick who finishes 10 gets 2nd pick and so on, sides will then fight to finish higher up the ladder, no question of tanking then.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Easy to eliminate tanking , who finished 9th gets first pick who finishes 10 gets 2nd pick and so on, sides will then fight to finish higher up the ladder, no question of tanking then.

Except that in this set-up those that really need the top end talent will now get a pick 10, whilst a team just missing out on finals gets the chocolates. In that scenario maybe the team in 8th decides its better to miss out on 8th (who rarely progress beyond the first or second week of finals) and tank to finish 9 or 10 in order to get top end talent?

If the draft is to help poor club improve then those who finish with the worst record should be the priority beneficiaries. We just need anvAFL administration that is willing to pay more than just lip service to draft integrity to keep tanking in abeyance.

[soupman]

The best solution I've heard aside from leaving it as is and having a real AFL commission is the 6 team split mentioned last year.

Basically after everyone has played eachother once (round 17) the ladder is broken up into three sections of six. Top 6 play off for top four, middle for the last finals spots, and bottom six for better draft picks.

I would have it so that for the top two thirds their win loss record is retained, so 1st could have a 16W 1L record which would give them a three win headstart on 6th who have 13W and 4L.

The bottom 6 games record gets flipped. So if 18th has 2W 15L and 13th has 6W 11L then 18th starts these groupings with 4 wins to their name and 13th with zero. So 18th starts out on top of the draft pick race ladder. Then the ladder works as normal with the best of the bottom 6 getting pick 2, 2nd best pick 2 etc. It gives a handicap to the worst teams and encourages teams to play to win. It's still flawed but atleast it incentivises winning and teams surely wouldn't start tanking prior to round 17.

[Twodogs]

Except that in this set-up those that really need the top end talent will now get a pick 10, whilst a team just missing out on finals gets the chocolates. In that scenario maybe the team in 8th decides its better to miss out on 8th (who rarely progress beyond the first or second week of finals) and tank to finish 9 or 10 in order to get top end talent?

If the draft is to help poor club improve then those who finish with the worst record should be the priority beneficiaries. We just need anvAFL administration that is willing to pay more than just lip service to draft integrity to keep tanking in abeyance.

Precisely. Why give a club just outside the 8 a leg up? It's kind of the opposite intention to what the draft is trying to achieve.


If a club wants to tank then let 'em. Their supporters will punish them enough.

[ledge]

Actually when you look at the top pick, how many have been more successful than the 2nd best or third best in a draft.
If you look at Melbourne and what they have got from first picks I would say later picks have proved to be a lot better.
Be an interesting stat to look at, first 5 picks in each draft and what's the difference in games played and success.

[Twodogs]

Actually when you look at the top pick, how many have been more successful than the 2nd best or third best in a draft.
If you look at Melbourne and what they have got from first picks I would say later picks have proved to be a lot better.
Be an interesting stat to look at, first 5 picks in each draft and what's the difference in games played and success.


Yep. I would take Bont over that dud* who went no 1 in his draft year!










* I know, I know I was just kidding... Both will be great players and I am looking forward to the thousand or so passes Bont will send in TBoyds direction.

[Twodogs]

The kid Trealor can play a bit. He looked really good a couple of times he ran through the centre of the ground with the ball in the third quarter. He's got a bit of toe.

[bornadog]

The kid Trealor can play a bit. He looked really good a couple of times he ran through the centre of the ground with the ball in the third quarter. He's got a bit of toe.

I think he is a gun. Pies did well to get him.

[F'scary]

The kid Trealor can play a bit. He looked really good a couple of times he ran through the centre of the ground with the ball in the third quarter. He's got a bit of toe.

No doubt he is good but we are leaving the back door open a bit too often giving opposition mids like him opportunities to rebound and look really slick. It is something we really need to work on.

[Twodogs]

No doubt he is good but we are leaving the back door open a bit too often giving opposition mids like him opportunities to rebound and look really slick. It is something we really need to work on.

Yep absolutely. I don't know that there was much we could have done on the day as a reaction to pace like that but we need to have a plan in place to deal with it.